Concerns about Elementalist — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Concerns about Elementalist

This discussion was created from comments split from: You can't design a hybrid class like ele and expect it to work...
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  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Those of you who care about the ele and its balance, please join this thread and continue to add your thoughtful and constructive comments. Thank you.

    feel free to add mine to this, or merge it or whatever...please

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51750/i-decided-to-make-an-elementalist#latest

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    Bring back Impending Dhuum.

  • Nepster.4275Nepster.4275 Member ✭✭✭

    I am mostly a PvE player so these are from a PvE and mostly raid perspective.
    The biggest problem with elementalist or at least as i see it, is that its hard to play(conjure management), very dependent on the chrono and druid(mostly boons and heals, so if one of the both just makes a mistake, you will be the first to realize it, ofc other DPS players too, but since you have CD on attunement, the whole rotation gets delayed, or need to switch attunement for heals or CC and thats a huge drawback),very little to no group support not even CC and as of now, not rewarding to play at all.This is because its competitor, the deadeye can upkeep quickness with minor DPS loss, doesnt need alacrity and has a quick access to CC via Basilisk Venom, and also can provide group boon support with the raid stolen skills.
    As i see it Weaver was broken with the default PoF damage, but i dont see the need for the Meteor Shower changes on other skills too.Also the whole change to weaver since the Meteor Shower nerf hurt the Tempest and Core Ele builds too.
    So imo let weaver with this changes and fully rework how conjures work, for example into a ammo mechanic, or take it back to a reasonable damage so that matches with the skill that it requires to play it correctly

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Even from launch non-staff stuff felt spammy (not saying this was optimal to play two single handed combinations). Then the particle effect clutter galore with each expansion! They did fix the aura's a bit in that regard.

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Kako.1930Kako.1930 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    Hey, thanks for joining us on the dark side! ;) You're totally correct in your observation. Thank you for seeing the truth for yourself, as well, and not just joining the bandwagon of anti-eles in assuming that nothing is wrong.

    I also really like your suggestions! Those are things I hadn't thought about, but they would definitely make the ele feel less like an outlier I think.

  • If Ele goes to tier 2 health, can Mesmer go to tier 1 health? xD Now game is balanced in pvp

    I also tried Ele out. I can't figure out how they assassinate people (so many buttons so fast o.O!). What I did figure out is that I decide to never die, I can do that. And nothing else. Unlike Yolosmith, I can't tank and murder- I tank or murder.

    On top of all your suggestions, I really hope the attunement minors become baseline then get replaced. Having to attune to heal allies when swapping to water, slowing foes on earth swap, dealing melee on fire, or sniping someone in lightning isn't a "trade-off". It's highly restricting.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ele as a class is know for what it lacks more then what it has. When in pvp environment the lack of effects of unblockable dmg, boon control, powerful boons, counter stealth or stealth , and over all counter healing seems comply out of places for any pvp class and often makes ele a bunker only set up with out means of dealing with any of these effects it lacks. On-top of having low passive def in both low hp and armor it goes over the top of being a viable any thing.

    Now this fits well in a pve environment as mobs lack ai and no real block / boons that need to be dealt with. So this leaves the ele class in a very bad spot they can do high dmg to targets that have no brains and do not move causing what ele can do to look a lot stronger then it realty is and in a pvp environment often dose next to nothing most of the time due to players having brains and powerful effects that ele lacks. This is where skill split is a MUST for a class like this as its dmg skills are very strong in pve but are nothing in pvp.

    When what dmg effects are nerf in pve aimed but are carried over to the pvp environment the effect of the ele class becomes that much weaker in that pvp environment other then the bunker builds. So every time a skill is not split or un split your causing a great deal of harm to the class in both environments.

    This is true for healing and support set up eles as well. What happens in ele raw healing fits into pve environment but due to how pvp works out it makes the ele into something that is unkillable so the healing effects get nerf and destroy any hope for a support ele in pve as things are nerfed in pvp carrying over to pve. That and pve dose not need powerful boons but are very much needed for pvp.

    This is all with building all in builds in mind to get to the hart of ele problem of being a gen. class you must question why other classes are not balanced in the same mind set. Other classes are very much able to play as support and dmg at the same time with the cele builds set up in pvp and still dose near dmg of that of an ele. Ele is a gen. class with in a game that was made for gen. classes in mind only. The only thing that was different for ele was that it is balanced with the ideal that is can some how do dmg and support at the same time (when it very well cant) but other classes who can on the same wepon sets are not balanced in such a way.

    To put all of this in one ideal is ele is out dated for gw2 the balancing mind set behind the class is for 2012 not for 2018. I cant not stress this enofe fields and combos are not viable in the game any more nor are one hit stuns / soft cc. The level of power creep added to the game with in 6 years as comply destroyed any id of the ele class and with it real balancing. The last thing ele had was it top in dmg that just got destroyed leaving ele with nothing but a gear set class that makes it less of an ele and using ele effects but a tool (it can only do on part dmg by building all in glass something other classes can build high dmg and not be even close to as glassy and locked out of playing most of its class effects).

    I hope this was not too long and was readable.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • jcH.7109jcH.7109 Member ✭✭

    You know what the problem is? Way too many elementalists go staff glass cannon weaver and expect to be able to play PvP. Max DPS Staff Weaver is ok for PvE and WvW if you have other people to help you. Sword/Dagger Weaver is pretty kitten good in PvP as long as you don't have some stupid build and you actually know how to play Weaver.

    I also see some people complain that Weaver takes too much effort compared to other professions, or that it's too hard. Coming from games like Ultra Street Fighter 4 (where 1-frame links are very prevalent in BnB combos and tight execution is required for optimal damage; in order to learn how to play a new character properly, you would need to spend hours and hours in the lab, practicing your links, punishes, character-specific combos, option selects, mix ups, and reactions, as well as learning match-ups in general, figuring out which of your links/cancels won't work against specific characters, etc. and THEN try playing a match against a player so you can practice doing all of those things under pressure, which I promise will also take quite some time to get down, and much longer to master), Counter-Strike (where strategy, positioning, coordination and execution is everything), and Dota (I main Invoker), I thought Weaver was fairly easy.

    GW2 in general is an easy game, especially compared to execution heavy fighting games. You don't have to time your abilities at all really. You can mash buttons one after another, and your skills will all come out just fine; no 1-frame window for correct inputs or anything. So I really don't understand these complaints at all.

    But hey, if most people still think ele sucks and push Anet to buff ele, I won't mind.

  • edited August 16, 2018

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Those of you who care about the ele and its balance, please join this thread and continue to add your thoughtful and constructive comments. Thank you.

    feel free to add mine to this, or merge it or whatever...please

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/51750/i-decided-to-make-an-elementalist#latest

    Done. Thank you for the suggestion.

  • Legendofzelda.1278Legendofzelda.1278 Member ✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    most of this is for pve. The conjure and trait reworks are also for wvw.
    one who is an ele main for almost 6 years now. There are allot of good things about ele. I like how complicated and diverse it is. For almost any situations I can find a build for it. One of the possible problems is that if you want to do any one thing really well everything else suffers for it. you do good damage means you have bad survivability, team support and so on. Same thing any which way you go. I still like playing ele because when I get on other characters ya they are strong, (easy) but it just not as fun; like playing deadeye where you are basically doing the same or more damage with basically auto attacking; same goes for most other professions engie being the one exception where its close to same complexity (or more so with condi engie). Problem is there is little reward for taking ele over anything else especially now that we are no longer top dps.

    possible ways to improve ele:
    1. conjures of them selves with their utility could with a big rework which many people have given feed back on.
    2. Other skills/traits so fire is not the only way of doing dps so other options are available (that being said it makes sense fire is the main dps). Allot of these things I would think would be kinda hard as it would require some major reworks. Also if you do it wrong you could make ele do too much making other classes unviable which would also be a bad thing.

    I don't want ele to be the only top of anything I just want it to be top with the others, and not feel under powered playing my favorite class especially with more work required.

  • my opinion of ele trait lines would be focusing on 3 specific qualities of each element that can either helps dps, survival, or support and bolstering them to be very effective, usable by the attunement itself, and usable outside of the attunement. rather than all those raw damage modifiers that our traitlines have, i rather possess a myriad of effects that actually helps me fight and survive. auras can also use a boost and have their traits moved to tempest since they are barely noticeable in the core ele trait lines. other traits that annoy me are those like vulnerability in water where only scepter's shatterstone and i think a dagger 1 skill can cause, but water can't do any real amount of dps which makes it pointless.

    Fire

    • burn (i like burning precision and i think it should have a version for every element)
    • boon removal
    • might stacking

    Water

    • chill
    1. frostbite - ice DoT whenever you apply chill
    • heal/cleanse
    • vigor

    Air

    • criticals
    • pushback/stun
    1. air skills being able to knock opponents back a little in order to maintain distance
    2. chance to stun if opponent is below a health threshold
    • swiftness/superspeed

    Earth

    • Bleeds
    • cripple/reflect/toughness
    • protection/stability

    Arcane

    • arcane skill bonuses / effects that change depending on the specific attunement
    • arcane skill bonuses / effects that change depending on the specific attunement
    • cantrip/glyph/conjure/signet/elemental

    Weaver

    • effects that change depending on the specific attunement combinations you have / double attunement bonuses
    • barriers/evades
    • boon gain depending on attunement

    ^something like that, but not necessary these ideas. basic idea is just to have every attunement capable of handling multiple roles depending on what traits you get. right now, the only options are just to pick up as much dps you can or just get as much sustain as you can. no middle ground or alternative and our options kinda suck.

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    hallo, i'm talking mainly from a pvp pov

    Water&Arcane Line Dependency Issue

    • water lines soothing mist is too powerfull when it scales with healing power and vice versa making ele too dependent on healing power. take soothing mist away and you gonna see that all ele heals are bottom in their efficiency
    • water lines gm trait cleansing water is for a way too long time the only viable condi cleanse trait of an ele.
    • arcane line offers ele nothing special it cant get (better) in other lines EXCEPT a reduced cooldown on atunements. it is the only reason eles are running it

    Solution

    in the pof betas the weaver gm trait woven stride stated that eles get condi cleanse on regeneration AND swiftness boon. suddenly everyone wasnt thinking about water/arcane anymore but air/arcane or air/earth. but instead of pursuing this direction woven stride got changed into its current form (if u gain swift u also get regen) which cemented eles dependency on water lines cleansing wave even more.
    change that back to condi cleanse on swift and this time mean it.

    the global cd on weaver is too high. it needs to be base 3sec. the high atunement cd is the only reason weaver are forced into arcane.

    Clunky and Underperforming Weaponskills

    i could start and mention every single skill on every ele weapon that:

    • requires a target
    • a target that you ontop need to face
    • has so high cast & aftercasttimes that any target NEEDS to be immobile and inactive
    • and additionally are a small aoe
    • that you ontop need to aim instead of target tab

    i get that you gonna spice skills differently up but all these things combined and they mostly are combined on important burst skills of ele make it unuseable in any pvp scenario AND smaller hitboxes (firegrab, phoenix, scepter aa's, staff aa's, staffs weaver skills on #3, sword fire/fire #3, sword air/earth #3,... it could go on and on).
    while other profession get huge burst skills that they dont need to face, just tab and force you to double dodge cause channeled eles are stuck with this old concept.

    and in that instance we havnt even spoken about the bottom of the barrel auto attacks across all ele weapons.

    RIP Boonbot

    ele once succeeded in regards of being kind of a mobile buff machine for your group. now with 25 might stacks as the only class being able to get them they were far to opressiv at one time and got nerfed rightfully.

    meanwhile as ele got stripped of 25 might in a long lasting rotation all other classes got 25 might nearly for free. instead of having stationary rotations (which also includes the choice of pursuing a target or buff yourself) they got some minor traits that buff them on the fly. other classes dont even look out for a rotation to buff themself, they either activate a weaponskill or peak at 25 might while they burst anyway.

    this is double punishment.

    now look at the on the fly whyle bursting aspect. eles biggest offender was boonstrip. you invest(ed) 30sec or more and a fixed rotation to get to 25 might and were than dependent on your concentration to maintain them which also made you more vurlnerable to boonstrips. the short lasting and quickly buffed 25 might these days also neglect that aspect. there is no trait of, no investment, no downside for other classes (ranger, engi, rev, mes, de etc) to go for them.

    for eles it allways were and still continue to be so.

    Auras

    • ele is the lowest health profession
    • with mostly melee weapons being (a tad more) viable in pvp
    • with not so great stab uptime or stunbreaks on high cd

    instead of protecting a certain range around the ele that really make oponents think about entering that zone we get ontop the smalles possible aoe in the game. auras.

    for auras to be punishing an ele needs to get hit.

    how does lowest hp pool, measly prot uptime, not a single punishing auto attack, and 1 sec cd on aura justify:

    • 1sec of burn
    • chill
    • stun
    • reflect (when you introduced unblockables for everyone and their mother)

    when you get hit by any autoattack like a truck?

    Nothing Special At All

    ele was once the master of fire and ice. burns hurt. chill felt really bad.

    nowdays everyone has either burns that tick quadruple the burn of ele and/or are immune to chills. in fact chill is still a hardcounter for any ele whyle other profession just shruck it of.

    other professions offer also better boons, support and heal and have also the choice to spice things up via weaponsigills.

    the big question is:

    in what area does ele succeed over other professions?

    what makes it unique and desirable to have?

    Hint

    conjured weapons offer a lot of utility that our weaponskills are missing. but the design of dropping them so that others can pick them up or you plane dont find them in the visual clutter + their huge casttimes makes them unviable. give them two charges on 60sec cd and make them a kit give them some group support (special action key so members of your poarty could eventually use them too) and you would see eles instantly slot them in pvp.

  • AlexPlay.8436AlexPlay.8436 Member ✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Those of you who care about the ele and its balance, please join this thread and continue to add your thoughtful and constructive comments. Thank you.

    Dear Gaile,

    Thank you for this opportunity, here is few thoughts:

    I played 12K hours as Ele mostly in sPVP so hope my opinion will be relevant :)

    1. Stunbreaks.

    If you die during a stun it's not fun. And this is most typical reason of death in battle for Ele
    Ele strongly needs to have more normal "stunbreaks" and it may shine even in cloth armor and low vitality and with no defence and with no blocks.
    As an option just add it to all stances and signets.
    This is very small change but helps a lot.
    It can be even specialization of Ele: Ele is not good in DPS, is not good in Point Decap, not good as tank,
    but could be good in Stunbkeaks, just make him best strunbreaker in the game (may be even share it to the team)
    will be a purpose of this profession at least in sPVP.

    2. Active defence

    Also If Ele will have few more active defense abilities it will be way more interesting and fun to play (today just single "oh-kitten-button": "twist of fate").
    If Ele is so squishy and have no blocks, no armor, no passive defense, no vitality, need to give him some ways to survive at least for attentive players...
    I may offer to have this "oh-kitten-button" per dual attunement, today none uses dualattunement since last nerf, so it will add a deep and fun to the fight and it's often available during a fight.

    3. Rid of water trait line.

    Alternative way for conditions cleanse will diversify builds a lot. You aware that today impossible to play without water.
    For example "remove 1 condition on each 'swiftness' " or "remove 1 condition on each 'protection' " or remove 1 condition on each 'barrier' ").

    4. Oneshots

    It's less related to Ele, it's more about oneshot-skills from other professions (wordly impact, etc).
    It's not fun to die without possibility to react.
    I may agree to keep these deadly skills in the game, but just make them more visible, give more information to players to react,
    may be special loud sound for this and increase the casting time (ping could be an issue as well);

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A few thing on Fire traits:
    Burning Fire is a trait in Fire that is practically useless because it removes conditions. If an Elementalist wants to remove conditions they will spec in Water, this trait doesn't belong to the Fire traits. I know they tried to move condition cleaning to Fire, but it's too little to even be worth it. What I'd like to see added in its place is a trait that removes Boons (burning the boons away)

    Conjurer is another bad trait, for two reasons, first it applies the weakest Aura of them all (Fire Aura) and second because Conjures themselves need a rework. The old Might on signet use traits that we used to have some years ago were better than this (and still weak).

    One with Fire is another terrible trait. I can see the synergy with Conjurer, so we need to take 2 bad traits for clunky might generation. Again, it offers buffs to the weakest Aura (Fire Aura). Unless Fire Aura is tweaked to be useful I don't see this being powerful enough to be used. Elementalist is squishy and dies easily when hit, yet we get an Aura that requires us to get hit in order to work, this is completely backwards. There is the skill https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lava_Skin available for Weavers, this is how One with Fire could work, a buff around the Elementalist that burns foes and provides might (instead of Barrier which is expansion ability) to the Elementalist constantly, without the need to get hit to work.

    Blinding Ashes is the final Fire trait that is weak, 4 sec blind on a 8 sec cooldown that doesn't re-apply blind on damage over time effects is very weak. It needs something more although I'm not exactly sure what.

    Something interesting now, Pyromancer's Puissance is the trait I'm using on my Sword/Dagger Weaver (solo play), because there aren't enough blast combos nor fire fields for Persisting Flames, without any investment in Boon Duration I can keep 23 stacks of Might on myself. If only I could share those with my team! Heat Sync is a Tempest skill and Dagger isn't very useful because Fire skills on Dagger are much Weaker than Air, so staying in Fire isn't worth it. Fire skills on Sword are great on the other hand. Adding a way to share Might with the team would make Pyromancer's Puissance a great option (not on the same trait of course)

    On a side note: making Heat Sync work on 10 people is another option to increase Tempest Support viability.

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Those of you who care about the ele and its balance, please join this thread and continue to add your thoughtful and constructive comments. Thank you.

    Dear Gaile,

    Here are my thoughts on how to improve elementalist, as someone who plays core elementalist a lot:

    1. Make Lightning Flash a stun breaker

    Lightning Flash is a 900 range teleport, 40 seconds cooldown (32 seconds if traited which most elementalist don't do that), it deals little to no damage and most elementalist use it for traversing maps and for the vertical mobility. On the other hand the mesmer has Blink, a 1,200 range teleport, 30 seconds cooldown (24 if traited which is very likely to be used) and the best part of this skill is that it's a stun breaker.

    My suggestion is to get rid of the damage Lightning Flash does and make it a stun breaker. As for the cooldown, it all comes down to you choosing if you want to keep the same teleport range, but reduce the cooldown from 40 seconds to 35 or 30 seconds or increase the teleport range from 900 to 1,200, but keep the cooldown the same.

    1. Revert the changes to Fresh Air

    The damage nerf on traits like Electric Discharge has greatly reduced the damage that core elementalist can do. With the weak defensive skills, it has made core elementalist even more vulnerable. It doesn't need to be as high as it was before, but at least bring it close to what it once was.

    1. Rework the scepter auto attacks and focus skills

    I love playing core elementalist and the scepter and focus weapons are not only great weapons, but also fit the wizard theme of the elementalist perfectly. That being said, they are not perfect and could be improved. The air auto attack is the best auto attack for the scepter, the water auto attack can deal solid damage, but the fire and earth auto attacks are really lackluster and are never ever used. When you think about using fire or earth auto attacks, you'd think that they would deal more damage than the water auto attack, but they don't.

    Not only do they deal pitiful damage, but they also scale with power damage poorly. I recommend you increase the damage on both auto attacks, reduce the cast time on the earth auto attack from 1.50 seconds to 0.75 seconds and maybe have it apply weakness on enemies, reduce the cast time on the fire auto attack from 1 second to 0.5 seconds and make it a ground targeted skill that can hit multiple foes and it applies strong burning damage. As someone who mains core engineer with the Grenade Kit, ground targeted skills would help core elementalist tremendously when it comes to kiting enemies while predicting their movement to deal damage.

    As for the focus skills, most of them are fine as they are, but not all of them. For example, I would like to see Freezing Gust changed so that it can apply chill on foes behind you like you can do with Comet and increase the chill duration from 3 seconds to 5 seconds. The fire focus skills are the worst; you get a wall of flame that deals little to no damage and it only serves for might stacking which for core elementalist isn't worth doing most of the time and Fire Shield might as well not even exist as the burning damage you deal to foes that strike you is very weak.

    I hope you take these changes into consideration and thank you for reading.

    Karras The Engineer

  • @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Quasar.1756 said:
    Ok, so let's get to the nitty gritty of things.

    What is the "biggest' issue with Elementalists? - and - What can Anet do to satisfy / appease the Elementalist community of GW2?

    All replies are welcomed.

    just some:
    low HP: Why do Necros have more HP, good health, can cast long time marks and wells on the move and do their walking aoe of death run?

    I just want to remind everyone here (including ANet) that these kind of posts are only concerning the PvP gamemode.
    I.e. as a Necro main, I can see the Necro's potential, still (after a lot of nerfing already, but hey) in PvP and WvW. But that said, it's the WORST pick by far if we're talking about the PvE endgame (Raids, T4 Fractals, CM's, etc.). And history tells us that these kind of posts make professions like Necromancer be nerfed even further to the ground, which might even be deserved as well in gamemodes like PvP and WvW (again, they ARE still doing quite OK in PvP and WvW), but is (I can only believe) accidentally taken along the nerf road in PvE as well, making them even more terrible than they are right now in PvE (if that's even possible). The latest nerf to Dhuumfire being a prime example at that (the ICD in PvE was completely unnecessary)!

    Then I also like to give a quick reply on the HP issue (see quoted) concerning both Ele and Necro (and Warrior, Guardian, Thief). I'm a prominent supporter of a "one Health Pool fits all" change! Giving every profession the medium base HP. I know: this will effectively nerf my main the Necro. But, having quite some experience in the game, I see Health as the absolute worst defensive mechanic there is! Compared to active defences like blocks, invulns and (extra) evades it's really insignificant, and mostly only really helpful towards new players that first need to learn (telegraphed) encounter mechanics, before they can use their active defences skilfully. But imo, you should hardly balance to that group, and if you do, do it differently: i.e. by buffing/updating Vitality/Toughness modifiers, so you can at least choose to go more tanky or glassy, whatever you prefer. Now your only option is to switch profession ... which is a wrong choice, imo!

  • (pvp focused) Elementalist suffers from the jack of all trades syndrome, where it can do everything but not one thing better than another class. pvp as slowly shifted into ethier full power/condi one shot style builds, full bunker support builds or high evade, high defence slow damaging builds. Elementalist style don't fit in no more, the class has a high skill cap as it is with attunment juggling, long cast times and a low health pool. because of the attunment juggling they will dip into a focuses attument a lot in a rotation. one minute they can be doing some damage, then next some healing or even just doing some defensive stuff. the amount of time I am facing an ele and it does a fair amount of damage to me, it then exhausts its offensive options and then goes on the defence never really finishing me off but saving itself from my consistent pressure.
    but while its saving its self and not really harming me I'm still keeping up the pressure and all it takes is a good interrupt and burst and it be gone. each attunment needs some options ( not a lot) to break from its arc type. whether this be in trait lines, using glyphs since they swap with attunments or making the 4 and 5 skills of attunements do something different. at moment fire and air the damage and require more defence built into them, water and earth requires more offence built into them. this way a consistant amount of pressure can be applied whatever attunment the ele goes into. a support build should be able support not just with 2 attuenments and a damage build should be able to damage outside of water and earth.

  • flarezi.9381flarezi.9381 Member ✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    CONDI:

    • More apply of condition or/and increase time of conditions eles apply to create working condition build (for moving targets) so we can slowly fight back while trying to stay alive.
    • Buff to earth traitline which is rarely used (apply/duration of conditions incrased), something else than +toughness for defence, since its not enough.

    WEAVER:

    • Much better barrier at weaver specialization. Better uptime for stability/protection. Better Healing skill for weaver.
    • Overall all stances but Primordial Stances (yay condis) are pretty weak so add effects on Twist of Fate (40sec cooldown is too much for simple skill like this) and Unravel.

    AND:

    • Buff elites to not to be joke anymore or just let us use utility skill in elite skill slot.
      Make Glyph of elementals last forever and to use skills on their own. Buff those skills.

    • Add trait which buffs elemental use to make summoner build. Make companion rune

    • Change visual aura effects of tempest back to where they were. Make Rebound to clear all conditions on use for self.

    edit: I request these changes for all gamemodes.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    Talking about PVP!

    Sword weaver:
    The build is in a bad, but not in a completely unviable spot. The survivability is good - even though heavily reliant on the corresponding traits and heals. The damage is completely lackluster compared to spellbreaker, holosmith and condi mirage. I would be fine with starting with two things:

    • Increase the range on (some) skills. Maybe the dual attunement skills could have 180 to make them hit more reliably in a fast paced PVP scenario. The damage buffs to pyro vortex for example simply do not affect this since the vortexes are stationary. Increase range, increase some radii. Maybe increase some teleport ranges too so that weaver gets some chase ability (right now mirage and spellbreaker are faster, holo is roughly the same but holo leap is ridiculous). Also improves the barrier application!

    • To make condi builds more viable, maybe add some cover conditions to some skills. Getting rid of the vulnerability sigil hit sage ele pretty hard. Right now everyone runs so many cleanses in fear of condi mesmers and scourges, any other condi build is just unuseful (this depends a lot on the composition right now, indeed).

    This might make sword weaver viable and competitive again. If not, then one might think of damage buffs (or healing or whatever). Weaver also has zero interaction with auras - sword does not have one without comboing, and that's also just the underwhelming fire aura -, making several traits obsolete. But that's too much work and probably not really helpful.

    Fresh air builds:
    I admit I never liked weaver FA, because the main two things you had to do is positioning and then smash air attunement as fast as possible for some instant burst. Rebinding keys was 50% of it's challange - not saying you didn't need a lot of experience though. However I love the old classic FA ele, but it was not competitive at all since HoT and even less with PoF. The burst was bad and happened to rarely. With the nerfs done to FA weaver, it became completely unplayable. So here are my wishes:

    • Revert the changes to the damage of electric discharge. Instead, give it a short internal cooldown of like 1 second. Reduces the instant burst of FA weaver and improves core FA ele. Also allows some more skill usage of offhand non-air abilities for FA weaver for that split second.

    • Reduce cooldowns on double attunement scepter skills like phoenix. Make dragon's tooth more powerful or land quicker. Rework some AA abilities of scepter and don't just buff shatterstone. Maybe the long-term goal can be to make FA weaver a burst spec and core FA a more DPS oriented build - but I don't expect that much work in core tbh.

    Tempest:
    Tempest lacks some things that firebrand has - most importantly stability which makes it too easy to interrupt. Maybe even AoE stability. Right now every overload in a team fight gets interruptes due to holosmith, spellbreaker FC or random necro fear. There are too much interrupts to play tempest without staff - and even then you can hardly use your overaloads, because they are all for close combat. Staff seemingly just doesn't fit tempest all that well (also: only 1 aura without comboing...). And there are hardly any offensive buffs. So maybe think about that:

    • Make stability while overloading baseline or at least not let us decide between stability and aura cleanses. This helps tempest to move to their allies for overloading and healing via auras. They could even interrupt their overload and use the heal shout instead or anything they want, risking the higher attunement cooldown. Nice decisions!

    • Maybe rework some auras. The duration reduction for HoT was good and needed, but right now they have become too weak. Increase the duration on all auras to 5 or 6 seconds. And improve fire aura a bit, maybe add some damage for an offensive buff or include 10% condi reduction.

    • I would also love warhorn seeing an improvement. Some of the cast times are just way too high and get too easily interrupted or predicted. Reducing some of those could make it a more offensive offhand choice for tempest, increasing the pressure in team fights.

    Maybe improve overloads in general, but I think with stability they might already become good enough. See what happens with these changes.

    Staff zerker:
    Well, this is a meme, but I loved it for trolling in unranked. There is too much work to do to make it actually viable. I know you have to be careful because of the other game modes, but you could easily split things. But some minor changes would make it fun to play again:

    • Revert the lava font changes.

    • Reduce some cooldowns on defensive abilities such as burning retreat or magnetic aura.

    • Make some defensive abilities be cast backwards like gust and shockwave and let them hit more easily.

    General things:

    • Let weavers double attune again! Give the buffs even to the second atunning. In PVP this is extremely dangerous because you lose access to new abilities already, this would give us an additional option for panic protection or cleanses.

    • For the far future: Rework some traitlines. Water as the only reliable source for cleanses has been difficult forever. Also fire is almost useless in PVP. I admit these are bigger changes though.

    • Give more access to fury. Maybe revert or improve arcane prowess? Or give easier access with fire? Maybe some weapon skills?

    • Improve comboing. A lot of classes can easily stack might for example without any combo. Give blast fire field 5 stacks of might, improve fire aura, increase range of blast water or ice fields for more team support. All these things help with complex, but rewarding gameplay.

    These are my spontaneous wishes for PVP, feel free to add, comment or criticise.

    €: Oh, I forgot for sword weaver: Make the ranged skills go backwards again. The build has to kite sometimes, which is fine. This change did hurt sword weaver a lot in PVP.

  • PvX ele here. I also enjoy testing old/odd builds. In summary I think ele's attunement is not following the current power creep and some shaving in CD will really help its current state. Wall of text incoming...

    Tempest
    PvX wise tempest simply doesn't fit into the fast-oriented demand in current meta. Currently tempest beats weaver in terms of cleave/group buff, but only by small margin and doesn't justify the weaknesses (long cast time, low damage) it has. Specialisation should reinforce its group capability by increase its boon duration or variety. For example, if 2.5s alacrity is added to Speedy Conduit (1.5s in PvP/WvW) then it is possible to bring firebrand/tempest combo into raid rather than just everlasting chrono/druid.

    In PvP/WvW tempest channel times with 4s are too long to justify its current damage at melee range, and a stack of traited stability is not going to save them from corrupts/boon strips in current era. Unfortunately support tempest is currently overshadowed by firebrand, even at tempest's pride area like condi cleanse. With nowadays fights are dominated by pirateship/point-control from range in these gamemodes, tempest needs to have its overload range increased or channel time reduced to become viable.

    In PvE tempest overload nerfs + other base skill nerf has completely knock it out of raid meta. I think at current stage it is reasonable to unnerf overload damage or even reduce channel time from 4s to 3s without much loss in damage, so that tempest can chain other skills without locked in animation to achieve that.

    Weaver
    Specialisation-wise weaver should be ele's powerhouse but after repeated nerf it is unrealistic to achieve 34k (Snowcrow use huge golem to eliminate RNG from skills which is rarely happening in most game and raid contents). This is heavily due to double whammy from last patch, nerfing both lava font and changing most heavy hitting skills to significant decrescendo-type damage. I think it is reasonable for ANet to aim for weaver achieving high burst and decreasing damage, but considerations should be taken to reward players for their effort. Goals should be so that weaver can at least achieve 36k dps if players can play its rocket-launch-code rotation well under stress. Simple way for power weaver to achieve this is unnerf lava font and buff other commonly used skills that isn't a decrescendo-type skill (eg. pyroclastic blast).

    Weapon wise in PvP/WvW sword is very decent in terms of survival, but severely lack in killing power for two reasons: range and cast time. Yes, it is strange that I didn't mention damage in terms of killing power, but current PvP meta focus a lot of disengaging and positioning, and 130-180 range are too easily kited by just about every specs. ANet did buff damage in some sword skills but it made no difference in current meta, so I think it is reasonable to target different approach by reduce cast time and/or increase range by 30-40 universally. Alternatively, reducing weaver attunement swap from 4s down to 3s or 2.5s is going to make everything smoothly as biggest issue sword weaver face in PvP/WvW is long attunement time locking weaver in either full survival (water/earth) or damage mode (fire/lightning) for good 8+ seconds, rarely in between.

    Regarding PvE end game content I actually think it is alright to increase condi damage from sword, since it is a hybrid weapon that offers something that staff don't. I'm not particularly familiar with condi sword/focus or dagger build but I think add 2 more burn stacks to Fire swipe, Searing Slash and Fire Uprising would help push the difficult 35k rotation to 37k damage.

    Finally I think if unravel can cleanse 2 conditions per cast (30s recharge instead), it'll help ele immensely with the current "go water or die" issue in PvP/WvW. Ele simply doesn't have much utility in cleansing without water and weaver could open up several interesting traitlines combination if not for the requirement of water (for survival against condi) AND arcane (for attunements...and just about anything due to attunement issues mentioned beforehand).

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    Essentially, what matters most is that elementalist's melee skills outdamage it's ranged options. Melee elementalist should be the highest damage in the game. Ranged elementalist should be mid-tier.

    Clarity: I'm talking mostly about WvW and PvP. Getting into melee range and executing a skill should be rewarded, as it is nowhere near as easy as hitting someone from long range. Melee power should always be the dominant form of damage, followed by melee condition, and then power ranged, and then condition ranged. Imo this is the most logical "general" structure of what the weapon/range hierarchy should be. I know this depends on target-count and class, but as a general rule I think that what I suggested is best.

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2018

    Thanks for opening this up, and I wanted to offer my perspective as one of the former top D/D ele players on NA (in WvW and PvP)...

    Almost all Elementalist skills have a cast time, or clunky usage, letting players with interrupts, evades, blocks, mitigate most of our damage.
    Skills like fire grab need a small cast time, but why does almost each and every skill on dagger/dagger force you to open yourself up to being interrupted?

    For old ele specs, also, (minus offhand focus) where is the active defense? Sure, we have one skill that blocks projectiles. Staff also has a barrier. But compared to the active defense of Weaver, core Elementalist is left panting in the dust.

    This is all coupled with the fact that our health pool is the lowest possible pool, when it should be the medium pool.

    Additionally... I wanted to make a note about the careful line Anet needs to take with core Elementalist. When celestial d/d ele (in PvP) was a thing, I was appalled. People were using it to easily win, but Ele itself wasn't inherently OP. The class itself was still nerfed fairly heavily, and then the amulet was taken away/neutered. I know there have been small buffs since, but there needs to be a careful look about how your core class performs in a souped-up, high-performing meta where classes have great access to stability, blocks, evades, damage, control skills and conditions. Elementalist isn't geared up to handle it.

    That's why you won't see an Elementalist in any of the monthly games, that's why there are only one or two well-known elementalists (who only play that class) left, and typically they're weavers.

    I urge you to take a look at base ele just like you did mesmer. I also would really hope you don't purposefully keep classes nerf-batted down just because they're not part of the newer expansions. I'd hope the core classes will get a look, also. We need more viability/diversity. Not less.

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭

    You can't design a hybrid class like ele and expect it to work...

    Yes you can and Anet has done a great job of it overall. The class does need a relook and I generally agree with the sentiment that the skill demand is very high but the ceiling is low. In general I think it depends on what Anet feels is good damage.

    As it stands several classes outdamage the elementalist.

    If Anet likes what the other classes can do, then those classes are balanced and elementalist needs to be brought to standard. If those classes are doing too much, then it's the other classes who need to be brought back down to earth.

    That said I wouldn't be against a purity of purpose redesign, as long as the general flavor of elementalist as it is is preserved.

    Fire should do massive unprecodented AoE damage and burning.
    Water should heal and support, apply regeneration/freeze/vulnerabillity.
    Air should do massive unprecedented single target damage, do blind/vulnerabillity/weakness?
    Earth should do control immobilize/cripple, protection, massive bleeding, and do toughness and maybe even bolster the HP pool with vitallity.
    Attuning to Earth bumps ele from lowest tier health to ranger/mesmer levels or something.

    Fire/Earth can do good damage and be the condi spec.
    Fire/Air is pure DPS.
    Fire/Water is AoE Damage and heals.
    Air/Water is big single target damage and heals.
    Air/Earth is strong DPS with condition and personal defense.
    Water/Earth is pure support spec with some condi damage.

    Something like that.

  • Thank you to everyone participating in this thread with meaningful and well-thought feedback. I have one request: When you post, could you make it clear what game mode(s) you're writing about? I noticed that a lot of you did -- like Megametzler, Nightmare, and Nicenikeshoe -- and Agrippa's comment made me realize that in order to most accurately assess the recommendations and feedback, it's good to know the context and your point of view.

    Thanks.

    Gaile Gray
    Communications Manager: ArenaNet
    Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Thank you to everyone participating in this thread with meaningful and well-thought feedback. I have one request: When you post, could you make it clear what game mode(s) you're writing about? I noticed that a lot of you did -- like Megametzler, Nightmare, and Nicenikeshoe -- and Agrippa's comment made me realize that in order to most accurately assess the recommendations and feedback, it's good to know the context and your point of view.

    Thanks.

    Hey I will.
    I am in love with you guys for giving this thread. I have hope that things with the ele will be different next expansion, maybe?
    Please, can you merge this topic too, it has good suggestions.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/50639/i-hope-anet-is-will-be-working-on-long-range-elite-spec-for-the-ele#latest
    Will quote my last comment:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    We need something with great single target damage potential and great range potential. Not talking only about weapons but spec too. This would be the exact opposite of the tempest (buff+close range aoe overloads) and weaver (close range). It would be fun too. IMO and lite single target oriented spec with a longbow is a great idea as some of you already suggested. I really like my ele but in every game mod (be pve/pvp/wvw) it seems it lacks something. and cant give competitive gameplay vs any content. We should have a build which is awesome for PVP, we should have another build which is awesome for WvW and we should have a 3rd build which gives us good PvE options. I am not here to cry about buffs but only a fresh spec which is simple and effective enough to make other professions fans to try and fall in love with it.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    Thank you to everyone participating in this thread with meaningful and well-thought feedback. I have one request: When you post, could you make it clear what game mode(s) you're writing about? I noticed that a lot of you did -- like Megametzler, Nightmare, and Nicenikeshoe -- and Agrippa's comment made me realize that in order to most accurately assess the recommendations and feedback, it's good to know the context and your point of view.

    Thanks.

    went ahead and edited mine to show the game modes!

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • The problems with WvW for Tempest support are that they are boxed out in their class. Like the other support classes FB currently holds far too much weight over any other support class to hold ENOUGH value. Hence the phrase, "meta or gtfo". All support classes need boosting in general in wvw so people have options for support classes besides FB. I would like to see a barrier option added to AURAS. This would be a good rework for auras in general. If that sounds too unreasonable then a general reworking for auras in any form would be appreciated. You could add longer aura uptime, or shorter uptime but 10 targets. I feel for tempest, overloading and auras are the two areas that need buffing for wvw as thats what made them unique. The reason why i targeted support for wvw is obvious, people in general are getting tired of running 2 FB groups in wvw. It's a class that has to be played full minstrel and you spend all your time in books 2 and 3 and then even supporting with all your utilities and weapon skills. Support tempest was a good edition but it got outclasses in POF. Either buff Weaver support OPTIONS significantly at the expense of their damage output, or bring back core/hot support.

  • edited August 16, 2018

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    Please, can you merge this topic too, it has good suggestions.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/50639/i-hope-anet-is-will-be-working-on-long-range-elite-spec-for-the-ele#latest
    Will quote my last comment:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:
    We need something with great single target damage potential and great range potential. Not talking only about weapons but spec too. This would be the exact opposite of the tempest (buff+close range aoe overloads) and weaver (close range). It would be fun too. IMO and lite single target oriented spec with a longbow is a great idea as some of you already suggested. I really like my ele but in every game mod (be pve/pvp/wvw) it seems it lacks something. and cant give competitive gameplay vs any content. We should have a build which is awesome for PVP, we should have another build which is awesome for WvW and we should have a 3rd build which gives us good PvE options. I am not here to cry about buffs but only a fresh spec which is simple and effective enough to make other professions fans to try and fall in love with it.

    I am a little leery about merging that thread because merging often inserts unrelated comments in non-sequential order, confusing everyone. Are you good with including that last quote? Or perhaps moving over a few of your earlier thoughts? I am trying to tread that thin line between helpful merging and cacaphony. :dizzy:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    went ahead and edited mine to show the game modes!

    Thank you -- that's helpful.

    Gaile Gray
    Communications Manager: ArenaNet
    Fansite & Guild Relations; In-Game Events; Community Showcase Live

  • Prologue: I come from over 13 years (2006 roughly) of playing multiple MMORPGs, Lineage 2, WoW, Aion, FFXIV, everything from PWE, DnD and the list goes on. What I am about to present are facts, concepts, design choices and so on. Zero interest will be show in specifics, or mechanics implemented currently in the game. Also, this post will be very PvE oriented, since the combat system of GW2 varies quite a bit to make a specific convo on PvP or WvW.

    Disclaimer: Elementalist was, is, and probably will be the take on the Mage, fits a specific archetype, and has multiple ways to be implemented. Lets begin by looking at some of those.

    World of Warcraft: Simplicity is the name of the game, all 3 talent specs are Damage oriented, the 2 talent trees decide the kind of damage being done, while the 3rd tree focuses on the theme of the Arcanum mage, the school of magic that comes from sheer willpower and thus is element-less, raw energy.
    Design: Here it takes on a very specific role, where one cannot be flexible out of it, and go for a healer, a support, a tank, a brawler, and so on and so forth.
    Role: Clean, straight forward, and adaptable on the occasions it comes to clear, depending on the situation, add control, clear, fast burst, constant keep of dps, and so on.
    Choices here branch on what the encounter is going to be, and allow the player a spot in every content needed, be it grinding, farming, questing, raids, dungeons, and so on.
    (Druid and shaman are not mentioned because they fit multiple roles and have a very different take on the game, also I do not want to make people disheartened and commit sudoku when looking at their elementalist.)

    Aion: 2 cases of the mage, both focused on the elements, the one called a Sorcerer, dealing insane burst damage with fire and ice, very similar to what we see from your standard staff elementalist, and Spiritmaster, a take on the summoner and condition over time damage, where the players is more tactical and strategic, splitting his focus on multiple aspects.
    Design: Again, a damage dealer, however with the additions of support in the form of short-duration buffs that are shared throughout the combat. Capable of tanking if geared accordingly, because of damage mitigation abilities, and summons, depending on the class chosen.
    Role: 80% of the times a damage dealer, sometimes an actual agro puller, they both focus on all aspects of a mage at the same time. Sorcerer is clean and direct, throwing large AoEs to deal with multiple adds, activating burst combos to deal with single chunky targets. Spiritmaster spreads damage over time spells on multiple targets while upkeeping most of them, and also has the permanent elemental pet to deal with the mechanic he sees fit, clearly both classes are given the tools they need for their content.

    Lineage 2: Over 6 kinds of mages, all attuned into some different department, having a lot of similarities. I will not mention the Necromancer / Soultaker class of this game, since it overlaps to our equivalent Necromancer.
    Design: All offensive-mages in that game share a lot of skills that are super similar to each other, just have a different elemental attribue, and cause a different condition, VERY close to how our elementalist acts righ tnow. Their name of the game is damage, nothing more, nothing less. The differences between them is their stats, 1 of them casts faster, but hits weaker, the other casts slower but hits the hardest, the other is balanced, and the other has a bit less in all stats in favor of causing crits, and having added crowd control to his kit.
    Role: All 4 can fit the exact same role in any scenario, having few abilities to mitigate damage and escape the combat, while relying on offense to stay alive when it comes to encounters with mobs, mechanics etc.

    FFXIV: 3 kinds of offensive mages once again. One that is your classic super glasscannon rain chaos, one that plays with summons and spreads conditions on multiple mobs, and the last is a mix of glass cannon and melee strikes, reminding a lot of what the mesmer would be if he had elements

    Design: Very thematic, living up the design choices presented, one individual relying on direct approach, the other on external mechanisms, and one presenting a mix.
    Roles: Both damage dealer and healing / support capabilities for all 3 choices, in some way shape or form, some from damaging enemies, others from straight out support spells, others by abusing some condition (similar to our combo fields).

    Elder Scrolls Online: Every class can play a mage, they are slightly limited on what said mage can do though.
    Design: Follows the theme of the class, abusing the school of magic the class is closer to, adding some standard spells common to most to finish off the kit.
    Roles: Every mage can dps, tank, heal, or support, depending on the stat choices and gear they've taken, as well as the abilities they have equipped, the only case something is "meta" is in extreme cases of competitive clean runs that people are running for the clock.

    Overall: The design of the Guild Wars 2 elementalist is trying to create an adaptable yet distinct class, but fails to do so because of the dependencies that come with it. Attunements / Weapon kits are severely miss-configured ending up locking a person into a situation rather than adapting, clearly a re-arrangement and/or re-design of said spots,positions and themes is in order. The traitlines do not focus on a playstyle, but rather on an elemental attunement, while the attunements are focusing on a playstyle, rather than a theme/traitline... There's only 1 word for that, contradicting. Last but not least, the advertising, in-game descriptions, theme, playstyle, design and so on of the whole class is leaning heavily towards one thing, Damage, and that is the one thing that has been getting nerfed, since 2016 (that is 2 years, if not even before that, I am not aware) without really addressing the actual issue.
    To add on top of that, people that choose to play the elementalist in slightly more competitive content, fractals and raids, (since dungeons are inexistent in any way shape or bug) are not given the slightest opportunity of experimenting and playing around with the class, to see what fits or adapts, but are rather guided to a 3rd party website of people who do keyboard gymnastics for 9 hours a day (no offense or ungratefulness intended, its just that I don't put you in a boxing ring for 3 hours if you just want to learn to defend yourself).

    Epilogue
    Thus, in good old Guild Wars 2 fashion, allow me to post a meta build guide on how to relate to your audience:

    Biweekly devstreams that share and relate information on changes, choices, thematics, and interaction with the community.
    https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Warframe

    Monthly give or take letters from the producer explaining the implementation, usage, and adaptation of any change that happens to a class, mechanic or encounter.
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/642-Letters-from-the-Producer

  • Speaking from a PvE PoV (Weaver to be more specific), ele was in an OK point before the previous balance patch , i dont think it should have been changed so dramatically at all when it was already alright, the whole point of playing an ele was giving up everything, and i do mean everything for very top tier damage at the cost of a complex rotation, low health pole, and being locked down by skills such as meteor and including trying not to move around too much cuz thats dps loss aswell as it b eing dependant of other classes like the healers and chronos for boon uptime that allowed us to keep our rotation goin.
    What i feel anet failed to realize is that the slightest change in the scenario can hurt the ele and its dps really bad. as of now it is not worth it at all to keep playing ele anymore cuz it does nothing for the party not even damage when it then again only was used for its top tier damage and that alone, now thief does everything better by just auto attacking and either a random stealth or dodge.
    Ele was hurt way too bad given the complexity of how it is played "well", and i also feel the balance patch was made thinking of the big numbers but then again those numbers are for ppl who practice again and again in order to achieve the perfect rotation and bring it to the live scenarios where things dont always go our way aswell... mentioning again the time we put into it to know exactly when and how to press our skills while still trying to move around and be aware of the encounter (yes i realize every other proffession deals with this too) but in the elementalist case it is magnified to some extent.

    I think id be happy reverting back to what it was before, maybe also keep the 6 second cooldown on the lavafont? since at the end of the day lavafont is where our constant damage comes from. yes i like other weapons being usefull but i dont think staff should be thrown off at all cuz it has always felt right and will keep feeling right cuz of how it works and for what we use it.

    i cant come up with anything as of what to change or do with it but defently think of it being just as it was before the balance patch or something similar as to it is worth to be played only for the damage and nothing else cuz reality is that, ele became extreemly selfish after the Might LH build was ditched during vanilla and it only became usefull for the fury share but that soon changed wtih druid aswell and well chrono too being able to put out a substantial amount of it. so yes ele literally brings nothing else but damage to the party since our CC capabilities are lacking which is not a bad thing given the idea of how elementalist works.

    it sounds salty but i just personally and im sure alot of people will agree given the complexity of the proffession as of now, its rather sad to see other classes who offer more, ontop of better daamge now and are easier to work out should be doing our job which was for 6 years now to be the DPSer way better than us.

    thnx to anet for listening to all of us as of now <3

  • I love seeing so many ppl (and asura players haha) trying to improve the class! heres my two cents on the subject, I did all the story and Pve content using my Charr Weaver, used to love Ele but its too squishy to go Ele anymore, the spells take forever to cast, the Water trait is a joke, in fractals you get almost inta burned before you have any chance to change to water so I go using the barriers wich kiiinda helps but not a lot, Weaver on the other hand I love to jump around using fire Earth as a main shielding/damage, Air is like water, useless except to do a teleport atack from time to time (I use it to scape enemies I dont intent to fight in pve) I feel like Water and Air should be combined as a shock chill/heal mechanic That way we have Fire for damage, Earth for Stunts, Air/Water Could be for dual purpose like a shield that heals or a heal that shocks haha Healing winds or Shocking Heal :P

  • PVP:
    Elementalist has a triangle of usefulness.
    Corner 1: Damage
    Corner 2: Survivability
    Corner 3: Usability.

    And as any triangle you can only pick one corner. Or a middleground and be half of everything.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Since launch, the elementalist have been able to dish out high performance in PvE while struggling in PvP/WvW environment. In the vanilla game, it wasn't that obvious but with the 2 expansions and the rework of the way the traitlines work just before HoT, the elementalist ended up seeing it's weakness increased by forcing him into highly specializing himself.

    Whatever the gamemode, the elementalist need to be more reliant on it's skills and less on how he trait. All in all, what needed is:

    Weaver
    Remove Weaver's prowess and Element of rage. To compensate for the condi loss, increase base condition duration on sword's skills by 30%. Replace weaver's prowess by utility traits with CC effects and element of rage by a trait that drastically reduce dual attuned skills cool down (40% to 50% CD reduction).
    Reduce cast times on sword's auto attack and dual attacks in general by 1/4s at least.

    This should put the damage and the weaver back where he should be in all gamemodes and give him a rotation that reward him for using dual attuned skills instead of forcing him on the eternal same core skills.

    Tempest
    Tempest which was supposed to be a support suffer from the fact that he is seemed to focused on boons which is paradoxal since it's selling point as a support seemed to be the auras. The real issue lie in the fact that auras aren't enticing for other professions, to put it bluntly nobody care about having an aura or not which is why the tempest ultimately failed as a support. It's tricky there but I think that what the tempest need is not a direct buff to the elementalist but changes on other professions' traitline so that they gain "links" with auras which shouldn't be an issue since most other professions have the ability to grant themselve auras.
    For example:

    • Warrior: change pinacle of strength to grant power while under the effect of an aura (the current iteration of the skill is really giving power for free).
    • Ranger: vicious carry's reliance on weakness could be replace by a reliance on auras and the fury proc could be replaced by a fireshield proc.
    • necromancer's death magic could easily replace soul comprehension effect by a gain of life force when struck while under the effect of an aura.
    • ... etc.

    This would put the tempest's ability to grant aura as a convenience for all professions and give him a solid, yet not necessarily mandatory, spot as a support.

    Core
    Core elementalist mainly need some tweeks and a view nerfs reverted. I won't be exhaustif because that would make thing to long but:

    • Fire magic: burning fire change to cleanse a condition on you when you gain fire shield. Blinding ashes changed to blind foes around you when you gain fire shield.
    • Earth magic: Diamond skin grant resistance when you apply an aura. Earthen blast now also apply 1 bleed stack for 8 seconds. Stone heart also increase bleed damage while attuned.
    • Arcane: Arcane prowess changed back to grant fury when switching attunment.
    • Air magic: raging storm changed to grant low duration might on critical hit 1 second ICD.
    • Skills: Add to skills with "impact" a dazing effect so that they have a dazing effect when hitting repeatingly the same foe. A 1/2s daze every 3 hits.
  • Luca.4670Luca.4670 Member ✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    This comes from my spvp wvw perspective : revert all the nerf ele received, they were all unfair. Reduce cds of ele's most used surviability skills (like Lightning Flash, Arcane shield, vapor form, ecc). Increase drastically healing from water skills . Rework/buff ele underperforming/useless skills (like staff earth 5, air staff 3, scepter fire 2, scepter water 2). Maybe add more evades to specs like d/d and sc/x. Increase drastically the overall access to condi removal.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2018

    For me what Anet currently have wrong with Ele is that its base stats are too weak to become competitive in pvp with the current thinking that ele = melee. No idea why they would betray the classic archetype of a caster that players sign up to but its what they are doing it seems and as a result it forces the ele to compromise their build to survive in melee. Either make ele ranged viable again or boost health and armor for eles so they are in a position where they can choose more competitive builds or support both with skill and armor options. Boosting health and armor also has little impact on the raiding, a little boost to armor wont sway things and more health = more stable and no increase in the damage meter wars game.

    I would also suggest they stop focusing their balancing on dummies/raids if that's what they are doing, its driving the wrong behaviours and changes and pushes the class further and further away from the original ele vision.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

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