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Concerns about Elementalist

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  • Tuco.2419Tuco.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @KashimKudal.2961 said:
    Dear Elementalist Users and Anet.

    I love GW2 and finally after getting out of the military I am able to play again. One of my favorite professions was Elementalist for its quick switching of elements and fast playstyle. After suffering an injury overseas due to combat and having surgery on my forearms to repair my tendons. I can no longer play elementalist correctly like I used to, because my hands aren't nearly as fast as they once were. I'd love to play it again but have a specialization that rewards less element switching but maybe a stacking buff the longer your "camp" in it with a "big bang" skill or something after reaching certain stacks or however a mechanic can be made. I know this wouldn't be too spectacular for everyone to play, but its just a thought. Annnd I'd love a real GS spec. for elementalist xD. Thanks for reading o/

    Hey bud, sorry to hear about your injury. This won't solve all your problems but it might solve some: I recently integrated 4x foot pedals into my setup and have them set up to the four attunements. You can read about it in this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107218/open-world-domination-fire-weaver/p3

    There is still a lot of button pressing of course, but it's quite a bit less.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @volca.7234 said:
    All talk about ele having low defense is funny because and get this " U can just dodge things" and ele has so much access to vigor + rune of energy in every game mode so you got no excuse, you are just bad at being alive and thats ok you can pick up water trait line.

    What i want to see buffed in ele is its conjured weaponm make their cast take longer maybe but their pick up take no animation maybe, and the first tier of fire trait line is boring, + remove all the "cast less X of X" passive gameplay.

    Evasion is objectively more difficult to achieve than passive defense, of which ele has the least in comparison to other classes. That ele compensation comes in the form of an attunement which provides them with healing at the cost of dealing any sort of damage is arguably a poor tradeoff. These are just two of the perfectly legitimate issues raised in this thread on elementalist concerns.

    I would like to see improvements to conjured weapons, though. I think the whole design should be scrapped, honestly. Maybe something like this?

    Conjures no longer leave a physical copy at a target location and become an ammo skill with 2 charges. Additionally, create an F5 for them so they operate like an additional attunement for the duration. Some skills, traits, cooldowns, etc. would probably need to be adjusted, but I think this would make conjures a lot more useful.

    Edit: You might also consider giving core ele a baseline conjure F5 that is lost if you take an elite spec.

  • volca.7234volca.7234 Member ✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @volca.7234 said:
    All talk about ele having low defense is funny because and get this " U can just dodge things" and ele has so much access to vigor + rune of energy in every game mode so you got no excuse, you are just bad at being alive and thats ok you can pick up water trait line.

    What i want to see buffed in ele is its conjured weaponm make their cast take longer maybe but their pick up take no animation maybe, and the first tier of fire trait line is boring, + remove all the "cast less X of X" passive gameplay.

    Evasion is objectively more difficult to achieve than passive defense, of which ele has the least in comparison to other classes. That ele compensation comes in the form of an attunement which provides them with healing at the cost of dealing any sort of damage is arguably a poor tradeoff. These are just two of the perfectly legitimate issues raised in this thread on elementalist concerns.

    I would like to see improvements to conjured weapons, though. I think the whole design should be scrapped, honestly. Maybe something like this?

    Conjures no longer leave a physical copy at a target location and become an ammo skill with 2 charges. Additionally, create an F5 for them so they operate like an additional attunement for the duration. Some skills, traits, cooldowns, etc. would probably need to be adjusted, but I think this would make conjures a lot more useful.

    Edit: You might also consider giving core ele a baseline conjure F5 that is lost if you take an elite spec.

    Having no passive defense means having more ways devs can insert active defense without worrying about ele getting op

    On dodges alone check how ele got access to ton of them, vigor on crit, vigor on aura, vigor on water attune(tempest), vigor on cantrips, vigor into 10 endurance directly(tempest), vigor on dual attack(weaver), barrier on dual attacks, barrier on dodge, 50% endurance on weapon swap(sigil), vigor in weapon skills, heal on dodge end, blast finisher on dodge end, blind on dodge end, dmg on dodge end, condi removal on dodge.... not to mention other non dodge active defenses like magnetic auras(which i kitten lov), 40%protection tempest, invulns cantrips etc.. etc...

    I bet ele has more traits and cogs that interact with dodging than any other class including daredevil

  • @KashimKudal.2961 said:
    Dear Elementalist Users and Anet.

    I love GW2 and finally after getting out of the military I am able to play again. One of my favorite professions was Elementalist for its quick switching of elements and fast playstyle. After suffering an injury overseas due to combat and having surgery on my forearms to repair my tendons. I can no longer play elementalist correctly like I used to, because my hands aren't nearly as fast as they once were. I'd love to play it again but have a specialization that rewards less element switching but maybe a stacking buff the longer your "camp" in it with a "big bang" skill or something after reaching certain stacks or however a mechanic can be made. I know this wouldn't be too spectacular for everyone to play, but its just a thought. Annnd I'd love a real GS spec. for elementalist xD. Thanks for reading o/

    That was a sad story, I hope you'll find a way to enjoy gw2 again. I really liked your idea about a stacking buff over time that end up in a big bang skill! I see it in an arcane trait or a signet to make an easier access to it.

  • @manu.7539 and @Tuco.2419 thanks for the support and Ohh I never thought of using foot pedals for attunements! Thanks for the great idea and link! GW2 peeps are awesome lol. I agree with @volca.7234 cause back in the day I found that ele could dodge for days with the right rotation/gear/skill management

  • @volca.7234 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @volca.7234 said:
    All talk about ele having low defense is funny because and get this " U can just dodge things" and ele has so much access to vigor + rune of energy in every game mode so you got no excuse, you are just bad at being alive and thats ok you can pick up water trait line.

    What i want to see buffed in ele is its conjured weaponm make their cast take longer maybe but their pick up take no animation maybe, and the first tier of fire trait line is boring, + remove all the "cast less X of X" passive gameplay.

    Evasion is objectively more difficult to achieve than passive defense, of which ele has the least in comparison to other classes. That ele compensation comes in the form of an attunement which provides them with healing at the cost of dealing any sort of damage is arguably a poor tradeoff. These are just two of the perfectly legitimate issues raised in this thread on elementalist concerns.

    I would like to see improvements to conjured weapons, though. I think the whole design should be scrapped, honestly. Maybe something like this?

    Conjures no longer leave a physical copy at a target location and become an ammo skill with 2 charges. Additionally, create an F5 for them so they operate like an additional attunement for the duration. Some skills, traits, cooldowns, etc. would probably need to be adjusted, but I think this would make conjures a lot more useful.

    Edit: You might also consider giving core ele a baseline conjure F5 that is lost if you take an elite spec.

    Having no passive defense means having more ways devs can insert active defense without worrying about ele getting op

    On dodges alone check how ele got access to ton of them, vigor on crit, vigor on aura, vigor on water attune(tempest), vigor on cantrips, vigor into 10 endurance directly(tempest), vigor on dual attack(weaver), barrier on dual attacks, barrier on dodge, 50% endurance on weapon swap(sigil), vigor in weapon skills, heal on dodge end, blast finisher on dodge end, blind on dodge end, dmg on dodge end, condi removal on dodge.... not to mention other non dodge active defenses like magnetic auras(which i kitten lov), 40%protection tempest, invulns cantrips etc.. etc...

    I bet ele has more traits and cogs that interact with dodging than any other class including daredevil

    I'm aware. Everything I said still stands. These are valid concerns over the elementalist class.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @volca.7234 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @volca.7234 said:
    All talk about ele having low defense is funny because and get this " U can just dodge things" and ele has so much access to vigor + rune of energy in every game mode so you got no excuse, you are just bad at being alive and thats ok you can pick up water trait line.

    What i want to see buffed in ele is its conjured weaponm make their cast take longer maybe but their pick up take no animation maybe, and the first tier of fire trait line is boring, + remove all the "cast less X of X" passive gameplay.

    Evasion is objectively more difficult to achieve than passive defense, of which ele has the least in comparison to other classes. That ele compensation comes in the form of an attunement which provides them with healing at the cost of dealing any sort of damage is arguably a poor tradeoff. These are just two of the perfectly legitimate issues raised in this thread on elementalist concerns.

    I would like to see improvements to conjured weapons, though. I think the whole design should be scrapped, honestly. Maybe something like this?

    Conjures no longer leave a physical copy at a target location and become an ammo skill with 2 charges. Additionally, create an F5 for them so they operate like an additional attunement for the duration. Some skills, traits, cooldowns, etc. would probably need to be adjusted, but I think this would make conjures a lot more useful.

    Edit: You might also consider giving core ele a baseline conjure F5 that is lost if you take an elite spec.

    Having no passive defense means having more ways devs can insert active defense without worrying about ele getting op

    On dodges alone check how ele got access to ton of them, vigor on crit, vigor on aura, vigor on water attune(tempest), vigor on cantrips, vigor into 10 endurance directly(tempest), vigor on dual attack(weaver), barrier on dual attacks, barrier on dodge, 50% endurance on weapon swap(sigil), vigor in weapon skills, heal on dodge end, blast finisher on dodge end, blind on dodge end, dmg on dodge end, condi removal on dodge.... not to mention other non dodge active defenses like magnetic auras(which i kitten lov), 40%protection tempest, invulns cantrips etc.. etc...

    I bet ele has more traits and cogs that interact with dodging than any other class including daredevil

    Ele active def is different from most classes as it puts ele in a state of non attk. Both dodges and skill that ppl would call active def for the ele class makes it so that all the ele can do in that moment. Other classes have much stronger active def skill (taking 0 dmg ) where they are able to be aggressive. There a LOT that other classes get that both passive def and active def that are significantly stronger then what ele pulls off and by no means has caused these classes to be balanced in an lesser way. If any thing the other classes have been giving much more dmg where ele has just see progressively more dmg nerfs.

    Every class can play the dodge game only ele has to pay the price of having the lowest hp / def in the game even thfs are more tankly then ele and are much much better at the dodge game.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180 said:

    @volca.7234 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @volca.7234 said:
    All talk about ele having low defense is funny because and get this " U can just dodge things" and ele has so much access to vigor + rune of energy in every game mode so you got no excuse, you are just bad at being alive and thats ok you can pick up water trait line.

    What i want to see buffed in ele is its conjured weaponm make their cast take longer maybe but their pick up take no animation maybe, and the first tier of fire trait line is boring, + remove all the "cast less X of X" passive gameplay.

    Evasion is objectively more difficult to achieve than passive defense, of which ele has the least in comparison to other classes. That ele compensation comes in the form of an attunement which provides them with healing at the cost of dealing any sort of damage is arguably a poor tradeoff. These are just two of the perfectly legitimate issues raised in this thread on elementalist concerns.

    I would like to see improvements to conjured weapons, though. I think the whole design should be scrapped, honestly. Maybe something like this?

    Conjures no longer leave a physical copy at a target location and become an ammo skill with 2 charges. Additionally, create an F5 for them so they operate like an additional attunement for the duration. Some skills, traits, cooldowns, etc. would probably need to be adjusted, but I think this would make conjures a lot more useful.

    Edit: You might also consider giving core ele a baseline conjure F5 that is lost if you take an elite spec.

    Having no passive defense means having more ways devs can insert active defense without worrying about ele getting op

    On dodges alone check how ele got access to ton of them, vigor on crit, vigor on aura, vigor on water attune(tempest), vigor on cantrips, vigor into 10 endurance directly(tempest), vigor on dual attack(weaver), barrier on dual attacks, barrier on dodge, 50% endurance on weapon swap(sigil), vigor in weapon skills, heal on dodge end, blast finisher on dodge end, blind on dodge end, dmg on dodge end, condi removal on dodge.... not to mention other non dodge active defenses like magnetic auras(which i kitten lov), 40%protection tempest, invulns cantrips etc.. etc...

    I bet ele has more traits and cogs that interact with dodging than any other class including daredevil

    Ele active def is different from most classes as it puts ele in a state of non attk. Both dodges and skill that ppl would call active def for the ele class makes it so that all the ele can do in that moment. Other classes have much stronger active def skill (taking 0 dmg ) where they are able to be aggressive. There a LOT that other classes get that both passive def and active def that are significantly stronger then what ele pulls off and by no means has caused these classes to be balanced in an lesser way. If any thing the other classes have been giving much more dmg where ele has just see progressively more dmg nerfs.

    Every class can play the dodge game only ele has to pay the price of having the lowest hp / def in the game even thfs are more tankly then ele and are much much better at the dodge game.

    A good example of this is riptide. It's a powerful skill that grants movement, potentially amazing healing, and a long evade. However, it requires rotating to water, which deals no damage and in order to get significant healing out of it you must use multiple combo finishers.

    The upside of that is that you can potentially full heal off of it while avoiding nearly all damage. The downside is other classes can heal nearly as much without losing damage and at the press of one key.

  • @Jski.6180 said:

    @volca.7234 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @volca.7234 said:
    All talk about ele having low defense is funny because and get this " U can just dodge things" and ele has so much access to vigor + rune of energy in every game mode so you got no excuse, you are just bad at being alive and thats ok you can pick up water trait line.

    What i want to see buffed in ele is its conjured weaponm make their cast take longer maybe but their pick up take no animation maybe, and the first tier of fire trait line is boring, + remove all the "cast less X of X" passive gameplay.

    Evasion is objectively more difficult to achieve than passive defense, of which ele has the least in comparison to other classes. That ele compensation comes in the form of an attunement which provides them with healing at the cost of dealing any sort of damage is arguably a poor tradeoff. These are just two of the perfectly legitimate issues raised in this thread on elementalist concerns.

    I would like to see improvements to conjured weapons, though. I think the whole design should be scrapped, honestly. Maybe something like this?

    Conjures no longer leave a physical copy at a target location and become an ammo skill with 2 charges. Additionally, create an F5 for them so they operate like an additional attunement for the duration. Some skills, traits, cooldowns, etc. would probably need to be adjusted, but I think this would make conjures a lot more useful.

    Edit: You might also consider giving core ele a baseline conjure F5 that is lost if you take an elite spec.

    Having no passive defense means having more ways devs can insert active defense without worrying about ele getting op

    On dodges alone check how ele got access to ton of them, vigor on crit, vigor on aura, vigor on water attune(tempest), vigor on cantrips, vigor into 10 endurance directly(tempest), vigor on dual attack(weaver), barrier on dual attacks, barrier on dodge, 50% endurance on weapon swap(sigil), vigor in weapon skills, heal on dodge end, blast finisher on dodge end, blind on dodge end, dmg on dodge end, condi removal on dodge.... not to mention other non dodge active defenses like magnetic auras(which i kitten lov), 40%protection tempest, invulns cantrips etc.. etc...

    I bet ele has more traits and cogs that interact with dodging than any other class including daredevil

    Ele active def is different from most classes as it puts ele in a state of non attk. Both dodges and skill that ppl would call active def for the ele class makes it so that all the ele can do in that moment. Other classes have much stronger active def skill (taking 0 dmg ) where they are able to be aggressive. There a LOT that other classes get that both passive def and active def that are significantly stronger then what ele pulls off and by no means has caused these classes to be balanced in an lesser way. If any thing the other classes have been giving much more dmg where ele has just see progressively more dmg nerfs.

    Every class can play the dodge game only ele has to pay the price of having the lowest hp / def in the game even thfs are more tankly then ele and are much much better at the dodge game.

    There are a huge amount of active defenses that are also attacks the list is too big but examples would be like HEALING SIGNET like come on, Evasive Arcana, staff fire 4, dagger fire 3, dagger earth 3, dagger firewater3, dagger waterearth3, dagger water 2, scepter waterfire 3, sword earthfire 3, sword water3, weaver healing stance "heal on attacks", all magnetic auras and focus earth 4(reflects) many conjurer weapons skills, ALL weavers dual attacks with traits give barrier etc......

    are you people just afraid of rotating into water? you understand how powerful it is to have 5 weapons skills where 3 or 2 of them are vaguely built around healing, healing weapons in the game are rare as is entire classes got none of that only guardian, rev, necros, druid, and ofc Ele who got it on every weapon combination he chooses on every specialization he wants, like i'd call that straight up too good

  • @volca.7234 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @volca.7234 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @volca.7234 said:
    All talk about ele having low defense is funny because and get this " U can just dodge things" and ele has so much access to vigor + rune of energy in every game mode so you got no excuse, you are just bad at being alive and thats ok you can pick up water trait line.

    What i want to see buffed in ele is its conjured weaponm make their cast take longer maybe but their pick up take no animation maybe, and the first tier of fire trait line is boring, + remove all the "cast less X of X" passive gameplay.

    Evasion is objectively more difficult to achieve than passive defense, of which ele has the least in comparison to other classes. That ele compensation comes in the form of an attunement which provides them with healing at the cost of dealing any sort of damage is arguably a poor tradeoff. These are just two of the perfectly legitimate issues raised in this thread on elementalist concerns.

    I would like to see improvements to conjured weapons, though. I think the whole design should be scrapped, honestly. Maybe something like this?

    Conjures no longer leave a physical copy at a target location and become an ammo skill with 2 charges. Additionally, create an F5 for them so they operate like an additional attunement for the duration. Some skills, traits, cooldowns, etc. would probably need to be adjusted, but I think this would make conjures a lot more useful.

    Edit: You might also consider giving core ele a baseline conjure F5 that is lost if you take an elite spec.

    Having no passive defense means having more ways devs can insert active defense without worrying about ele getting op

    On dodges alone check how ele got access to ton of them, vigor on crit, vigor on aura, vigor on water attune(tempest), vigor on cantrips, vigor into 10 endurance directly(tempest), vigor on dual attack(weaver), barrier on dual attacks, barrier on dodge, 50% endurance on weapon swap(sigil), vigor in weapon skills, heal on dodge end, blast finisher on dodge end, blind on dodge end, dmg on dodge end, condi removal on dodge.... not to mention other non dodge active defenses like magnetic auras(which i kitten lov), 40%protection tempest, invulns cantrips etc.. etc...

    I bet ele has more traits and cogs that interact with dodging than any other class including daredevil

    Ele active def is different from most classes as it puts ele in a state of non attk. Both dodges and skill that ppl would call active def for the ele class makes it so that all the ele can do in that moment. Other classes have much stronger active def skill (taking 0 dmg ) where they are able to be aggressive. There a LOT that other classes get that both passive def and active def that are significantly stronger then what ele pulls off and by no means has caused these classes to be balanced in an lesser way. If any thing the other classes have been giving much more dmg where ele has just see progressively more dmg nerfs.

    Every class can play the dodge game only ele has to pay the price of having the lowest hp / def in the game even thfs are more tankly then ele and are much much better at the dodge game.

    There are a huge amount of active defenses that are also attacks the list is too big but examples would be like HEALING SIGNET like come on, Evasive Arcana, staff fire 4, dagger fire 3, dagger earth 3, dagger firewater3, dagger waterearth3, dagger water 2, scepter waterfire 3, sword earthfire 3, sword water3, weaver healing stance "heal on attacks", all magnetic auras and focus earth 4(reflects) many conjurer weapons skills, ALL weavers dual attacks with traits give barrier etc......

    are you people just afraid of rotating into water? you understand how powerful it is to have 5 weapons skills where 3 or 2 of them are vaguely built around healing, healing weapons in the game are rare as is entire classes got none of that only guardian, rev, necros, druid, and ofc Ele who got it on every weapon combination he chooses on every specialization he wants, like i'd call that straight up too good

    You're talking in circles. It's already been explained that water attunement (and the attunement system itself) represents a tradeoff. Having extra healing skills is, on its surface, purely a benefit. However, in the context of the overall design it is a tradeoff. You gain these skills, so you are expected to use them. But they are also a DPS loss every time you rotate into water. Presumably, if you did not have these skills, the necessity of losing all DPS to rotate into a healing attunement would not be necessary and the tradeoff itself would cease to be.

    Don't get me wrong. I love the feel of weaver, in particular the evasion skills and I make excellent use of them. I can also pull off 4x combo heals off of riptide and look like a boss doing it! It's great! However, it is also true that these abilities come at somewhat of a cost when you consider that other classes can do a lot of this stuff better and without having to pull off complex combos. The tradeoff doesn't exist for them and they still get the job done, often while offering more to the groups they join.

    These are legitimate concerns.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @volca.7234 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @volca.7234 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @volca.7234 said:
    All talk about ele having low defense is funny because and get this " U can just dodge things" and ele has so much access to vigor + rune of energy in every game mode so you got no excuse, you are just bad at being alive and thats ok you can pick up water trait line.

    What i want to see buffed in ele is its conjured weaponm make their cast take longer maybe but their pick up take no animation maybe, and the first tier of fire trait line is boring, + remove all the "cast less X of X" passive gameplay.

    Evasion is objectively more difficult to achieve than passive defense, of which ele has the least in comparison to other classes. That ele compensation comes in the form of an attunement which provides them with healing at the cost of dealing any sort of damage is arguably a poor tradeoff. These are just two of the perfectly legitimate issues raised in this thread on elementalist concerns.

    I would like to see improvements to conjured weapons, though. I think the whole design should be scrapped, honestly. Maybe something like this?

    Conjures no longer leave a physical copy at a target location and become an ammo skill with 2 charges. Additionally, create an F5 for them so they operate like an additional attunement for the duration. Some skills, traits, cooldowns, etc. would probably need to be adjusted, but I think this would make conjures a lot more useful.

    Edit: You might also consider giving core ele a baseline conjure F5 that is lost if you take an elite spec.

    Having no passive defense means having more ways devs can insert active defense without worrying about ele getting op

    On dodges alone check how ele got access to ton of them, vigor on crit, vigor on aura, vigor on water attune(tempest), vigor on cantrips, vigor into 10 endurance directly(tempest), vigor on dual attack(weaver), barrier on dual attacks, barrier on dodge, 50% endurance on weapon swap(sigil), vigor in weapon skills, heal on dodge end, blast finisher on dodge end, blind on dodge end, dmg on dodge end, condi removal on dodge.... not to mention other non dodge active defenses like magnetic auras(which i kitten lov), 40%protection tempest, invulns cantrips etc.. etc...

    I bet ele has more traits and cogs that interact with dodging than any other class including daredevil

    Ele active def is different from most classes as it puts ele in a state of non attk. Both dodges and skill that ppl would call active def for the ele class makes it so that all the ele can do in that moment. Other classes have much stronger active def skill (taking 0 dmg ) where they are able to be aggressive. There a LOT that other classes get that both passive def and active def that are significantly stronger then what ele pulls off and by no means has caused these classes to be balanced in an lesser way. If any thing the other classes have been giving much more dmg where ele has just see progressively more dmg nerfs.

    Every class can play the dodge game only ele has to pay the price of having the lowest hp / def in the game even thfs are more tankly then ele and are much much better at the dodge game.

    There are a huge amount of active defenses that are also attacks the list is too big but examples would be like HEALING SIGNET like come on, Evasive Arcana, staff fire 4, dagger fire 3, dagger earth 3, dagger firewater3, dagger waterearth3, dagger water 2, scepter waterfire 3, sword earthfire 3, sword water3, weaver healing stance "heal on attacks", all magnetic auras and focus earth 4(reflects) many conjurer weapons skills, ALL weavers dual attacks with traits give barrier etc......

    are you people just afraid of rotating into water? you understand how powerful it is to have 5 weapons skills where 3 or 2 of them are vaguely built around healing, healing weapons in the game are rare as is entire classes got none of that only guardian, rev, necros, druid, and ofc Ele who got it on every weapon combination he chooses on every specialization he wants, like i'd call that straight up too good

    As you cant use more then one wepon at a time on ele i think your list is a bit flawed.

    Healing is not an active def its an reaction self support after the fact barrier is an active def skill. As well aura are NOT active def skill they are passive def skill its like calling passive def effects like protection an active def skill.

    A lot of ele on dodge skills have a timing problem with them. If you dodge an attk and trigger the effect of the dodge but hit nothing or have no hp missing or even move out of some one attk ranged your waiting the cd. Ele simply cant control its on x cd that why most of them have been dropped to 0 or are not used.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • supreme.3602supreme.3602 Member ✭✭✭

    More Tempests nerfs... nice. That's one more reason to not log in on that class anymore.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2020

    @supreme.3602 said:
    More Tempests nerfs... nice. That's one more reason to not log in on that class anymore.

    Anet hate the ele class its realty that simple.

    I realty think the ele player base should end every thing on these forms with "anet hates eles." At least in the ele room as anet dose nothing more then bate and switch with buffs into nerfs a few updates down the rode.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • On topic with all that "ele has access to so many on demand evades and vigor", yeah it's true, then you get roped up in a game of survival hoping to do some damage in PBAoE, but it's honestly the last thing on your mind. I'm trying to sling blinds, soft cc, and heals constantly waiting for my dodge to come back, even with that much vigor I'm just constantly dodging. Then they fixed this with weaver by basically making the class do kitten-tons of damage and built in evades and combos into its attacks. This was obviously OP so they've been tweaking it, but like with every ele build they gut the damage, they gut the base healing and "recovery", and you're stuck having to throw half of your traits and utilities at survivability. Glass cannon ele is still the meta for end game content, but no other class is as close to being completely dependent on other classes for everything outside of vigor and direct damage.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2020

    People here really can't complain.....because you're still playing the class as I said months ago : Stop playing elementalist! At this point people here are either loving the suffering that comes with the balance of this class or they simply lie to themselves.

    It's not an overly complex problem : Stop using elementalist , if nobody use it...they will ofc change it...as it would be pretty hard to sell a MMo product otherwise but for as long as people use the class regardless of the balance well.....I don't see anything every changing for elementalist

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:
    People here really can't complain.....because you're still playing the class as I said months ago : Stop playing elementalist! <

    I'm not playing it now. It's sad to me that, after so many years of playing Auramancer, I now can no longer play it at all due to the lack of efficacy of the class.

    Worse, I am a 99.5% WvW only player and, instead of doing anything actually constructive with a game mode that they have neglected for years, Anet does "balance" chopping to the point that they make a class that was already almost useless in WvW, completely without merit to the point it is now barely even considered a utility class by most seasoned players.

    I won't say more as I pretty much really just have no words.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2020

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    People here really can't complain.....because you're still playing the class as I said months ago : Stop playing elementalist! At this point people here are either loving the suffering that comes with the balance of this class or they simply lie to themselves.

    It's not an overly complex problem : Stop using elementalist , if nobody use it...they will ofc change it...as it would be pretty hard to sell a MMo product otherwise but for as long as people use the class regardless of the balance well.....I don't see anything every changing for elementalist

    Ya most ppl have stopped playing it.
    And groups have asked ppl to stop playing ele as well.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • I wanted to main an ele but since they suck, and long range is trash its been difficult to get into this game in general. I may end up playing OSRS or something at least you can be a decent elementalist on that game.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arcaneus.6931 said:
    I wanted to main an ele but since they suck, and long range is trash its been difficult to get into this game in general. I may end up playing OSRS or something at least you can be a decent elementalist on that game.

    It's difficult for any class in this game to suck at everything and ele is no exception. Especially if you're new, I'd give it a try for yourself before listening to the salt on the forums.

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭

    I think that ele players have the greatest potential to achieve the highest skill level in the game. The class requires a good understanding of build synergy and strong mechanical proficiency. Imagine if Anet gave ele players too much breathing room, relaxing the demanding workload of playing the class, eles would become godmode in a way that other classes can't.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1 and The Search For Answers P2.

  • Arcaneus.6931Arcaneus.6931 Member ✭✭
    edited December 4, 2020

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    It's difficult for any class in this game to suck at everything and ele is no exception. Especially if you're new, I'd give it a try for yourself before listening to the salt on the forums.

    I played ele to lvl 80 and leveled artificer to max. Eles lack decent long range damage. I don't really enjoy being put into the support category because I main staff. It would be nice if they gave us more long range options, like trident for example to me its the most fun to play around with. The main reason I choose ele is so I can play a long range damage dealer.

    I hate it when elites weapons on cloth classes are focused around melee range. Majority of the people I have seen opt for using melee weapons because its viable build and I do feel like I am forced to play melee because of those reasons. IMO the Elites also restrict weapon choices than add more to them.

    It would have been better if they just created weapons that can used without having to equip an elite trait. It just isn't fun to be forced into having to pick elites for weapon choices or better damage output.

    I have been playing Mage/Cloth classes in MMOs for along time now, the reason I play them is because I enjoy doing damage at long range, having so little options just kills the fun for me. I am not going to be forced into playing some weeb anime trait for better damage output to satisfy the min/maxers this game is plagued with.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2020

    @Arcaneus.6931 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    It's difficult for any class in this game to suck at everything and ele is no exception. Especially if you're new, I'd give it a try for yourself before listening to the salt on the forums.

    I played ele to lvl 80 and leveled artificer to max. Eles lack decent long range damage. I don't really enjoy being put into the support category because I main staff. It would be nice if they gave us more long range options, like trident for example to me its the most fun to play around with. The main reason I choose ele is so I can play a long range damage dealer.

    I hate it when elites weapons on cloth classes are focused around melee range. Majority of the people I have seen opt for using melee weapons because its viable build and I do feel like I am forced to play melee because of those reasons. IMO the Elites also restrict weapon choices than add more to them.

    It would have been better if they just created weapons that can used without having to equip an elite trait. It just isn't fun to be forced into having to pick elites for weapon choices or better damage output.

    I have been playing Mage/Cloth classes in MMOs for along time now, the reason I play them is because I enjoy doing damage at long range, having so little options just kills the fun for me. I am not going to be forced into playing some weeb anime trait for better damage output to satisfy the min/maxers this game is plagued with.

    Ele is mostly a staff class OR an unkillable/cant kill tankly build. Your allways going to be left wanting for some other classes effect and build chose.

    Your best bet is to unlock tempest and weaver and use what build they have core ele is effectively a dead class.

    Super important to understand about gw2 is there are no mages classes as there no dmg types to start with. You can get effects that look like different dmg types though condis and unshockable but you realy do not find these effects on ele vs other classes.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Arcaneus.6931Arcaneus.6931 Member ✭✭
    edited December 5, 2020

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Your best bet is to unlock tempest and weaver and use what build they have core ele is effectively a dead class.

    Super important to understand about gw2 is there are no mages classes as there no dmg types to start with. You can get effects that look like different dmg types though condis and unshockable but you realy do not find these effects on ele vs other classes.

    IMO what you said makes as much sense to me as having all heavy armor classes 1 melee weapon and the rest being long range only. Just think about it if that was the case, would you still enjoy it and say " that's the way it is because its GW2 "?

    I think it also devalues the armor types too Heavy, Medium and Light and their respective professions. Why bother making them options in game in the first place if majority of the classes are required to play at melee range to get any decent performance with the aid of elites and traits that makes Light armor just if not better than heavy armor classes at melee.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arcaneus.6931 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Your best bet is to unlock tempest and weaver and use what build they have core ele is effectively a dead class.

    Super important to understand about gw2 is there are no mages classes as there no dmg types to start with. You can get effects that look like different dmg types though condis and unshockable but you realy do not find these effects on ele vs other classes.

    IMO what you said makes as much sense to me as having all heavy armor classes 1 melee weapon and the rest being long range only. Just think about it if that was the case, would you still enjoy it and say " that's the way it is because its GW2 "?

    I think it also devalues the armor types too Heavy, Medium and Light and their respective professions. Why bother making them options in game in the first place if majority of the classes are required to play at melee range to get any decent performance with the aid of elites and traits that makes Light armor just if not better than heavy armor classes at melee.

    Long story short....all you said makes perfect sense.

    NO! having a mage class in a MMO acting like a melee brawler is simply speaking "an awful idea", nobody know who came up with such an absurd concept but well......it's is what it is and here we are suffering the consequences of that decision

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arcaneus.6931 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Your best bet is to unlock tempest and weaver and use what build they have core ele is effectively a dead class.

    Super important to understand about gw2 is there are no mages classes as there no dmg types to start with. You can get effects that look like different dmg types though condis and unshockable but you realy do not find these effects on ele vs other classes.

    IMO what you said makes as much sense to me as having all heavy armor classes 1 melee weapon and the rest being long range only. Just think about it if that was the case, would you still enjoy it and say " that's the way it is because its GW2 "?

    I think it also devalues the armor types too Heavy, Medium and Light and their respective professions. Why bother making them options in game in the first place if majority of the classes are required to play at melee range to get any decent performance with the aid of elites and traits that makes Light armor just if not better than heavy armor classes at melee.

    It was base off an older system of traits that was removed yet the armor types and hp amounts where not changed as well.

    GW2 is full of old out dated systems that where only partly updated or not updated at all. Ele is the class the suffered the most from anet "forgetting" to update things before moving on the next new thing.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Arcaneus.6931 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Your best bet is to unlock tempest and weaver and use what build they have core ele is effectively a dead class.

    Super important to understand about gw2 is there are no mages classes as there no dmg types to start with. You can get effects that look like different dmg types though condis and unshockable but you realy do not find these effects on ele vs other classes.

    IMO what you said makes as much sense to me as having all heavy armor classes 1 melee weapon and the rest being long range only. Just think about it if that was the case, would you still enjoy it and say " that's the way it is because its GW2 "?

    I think it also devalues the armor types too Heavy, Medium and Light and their respective professions. Why bother making them options in game in the first place if majority of the classes are required to play at melee range to get any decent performance with the aid of elites and traits that makes Light armor just if not better than heavy armor classes at melee.

    Long story short....all you said makes perfect sense.

    NO! having a mage class in a MMO acting like a melee brawler is simply speaking "an awful idea", nobody know who came up with such an absurd concept but well......it's is what it is and here we are suffering the consequences of that decision

    For my tastes, I've always loved the melee weapon play styles on ele. Dagger is a blast to play on core/tempest and I especially love playing sword weaver. That doesn't invalidate any of what seem like perfectly valid complaints to me, however. The fact is ele could really benefit from having medium baseline health. Both staff and scepter really need improvement and are currently the worst choices most of the time. Core ele is bottom tier in every game mode. Weaver was over-nerfed in competitive play. Conjured weapons are terribly designed. The list of areas for improvement with this class is long.

    For what it's worth, I support the idea of the next ele elite featuring a ranged weapon. It's not my preferred style, but the melee options for ele are where the class feels best currently. They should work on improving ele's ranged game.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well new elite spec will probably be broken and then they nerf water, fire, air and arcane lines until core can't kill mobs in starter zone anymore. B)

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Junkpile.7439 said:
    Well new elite spec will probably be broken and then they nerf water, fire, air and arcane lines until core can't kill mobs in starter zone anymore. B)

    Seems to be about right.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i started to play ele since not even a week, and i think it is a pretty easy but powerful class. also balanced, as weaver u just need to know your cycles and combos.

    but to make it do damage and use its range, u need pacing and quick fingers; also u first and foremost need some stunbreak equipped, since it is pretty glassy. just has a ton of options to disengage, you just cannot facetank or jolly slaughter stuff in melee like necro does. but yeah, necro is one of the strongest classes.

    its damage only feels mediocre, because thief specs, ranger specs, mesmer, warrior, guardian or reaper can mass-stack a crazy ton of quick damage. still, a big meteor shower surely does its job.

  • @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

    its damage only feels mediocre, because thief specs, ranger specs, mesmer, warrior, guardian or reaper can mass-stack a crazy ton of quick damage. still, a big meteor shower surely does its job.

    LMAO I love how you just negated your own point with that line.

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020

    @Bamisama.6853 said:

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

    its damage only feels mediocre, because thief specs, ranger specs, mesmer, warrior, guardian or reaper can mass-stack a crazy ton of quick damage. still, a big meteor shower surely does its job.

    LMAO I love how you just negated your own point with that line.

    u kinda misunderstood that. thief and rangers and mesmers have no/barely any AoE and are therefore completly useless as offensemodes in Wvw. dps warrior is similarily selfish and therefore also has less value in a largescale format.

    that was plainly about sheer paper damage. which makes eles damage FEEL lesser than it really is. u can cyle through your weaver combos and pump out one damage circle after the other. herald+scrouge are the meta aoe classes.

    i might have forgotten to mention that i only play Wvw. in pve, everything really does damage. idk about the meta, but openworld bosses are usually pretty weak, it matters not what u play to kill stuff there. ele is just squishy... which is its basic downside.

    i think the ele specs are kinda balanced, in latin the "aurea mediocritas". nothing bad about that.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2020

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Pocky.3159 said:

    @Arcaneus.6931 said:

    @Junkpile.7439 said:
    Why not give elementalist more hp and damage if they don't use any elite spec lines? Funny play ele when you have under 14k hp and 2k armor and still damage is horrible. I really hope that dude who got idea add barrier in game and give it only to the elite specs doesn't work for anet anymore.

    IMO we chose elementalists because they are cloth class and for better damage at long range so you can kill your enemy while keeping a distance, that's how its supposed to be that's why we choose cloth class, I don't get why they go and make it melee oriented, if I wanted a melee class I would have gone for heavy armor classes. I would rather them have more long range damage options at least then their squishiness would be understandable. Currently its just feels absurd to play a cloth class at melee and long range, no wonder they die so easily.

    I get that a lot of folks default to mage being ranged spell caster and not much else; but I take personal offense at that limitation! proudly waves spellsword flag lol

    In all seriousness though, the fact that both melee and ranged are so lacking is because they don't really commit to either side. Like, Weaver should probably get more health if your gonna ask players to get in close, and Tempest/Base Elementalist really should be able to distance cast better at this point. Hell, I think having Tempest be the go to ranged caster, Weaver being the melee caster, and Elementalist being the half-and-half would be better.

    Either that, or make it possible to really spec into ranged or melee roles with our trees.

    It's less that people default to elementalist having to be exclusively ranged. It's more that currently ele is almost exclusively a melee class, with the lowest hp pool and armor and with no gimmicks like mobility or stealth to compensate. The theme of a cloth-wearing spellcaster is also usually ranged, but that obviously doesn't mean that melee shouldn't be an option. However, it does mean that the ranged options better be good as well. Right now the ranged option have no survivability, no way to escape or kite anything and also the slowest attacks in the game. Very underwhelming design that didn't even cut it in the core game, much less now.

    I think it prob has to do with staff being aoes that it is so slow and cumbersome.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Every WvW interaction vs ranger results in completely underwhelming results. Just run damage meters and look at log when a ranger wrecks you. I chased on at 10% when I had a group and figured 'surely 10% ".. But evaded 3 stances of attacks and burst me down - was about a 6 second fight. lol Very tiresome looking for "best WvW builds" and getting wrecked by most classes. Before saying how amazing the ele abilities are look at raw numbers others can pump out. that's where no amount of cool traits help.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bleikopf.2491 said:
    However, its design is behind the current state of GW2:

    • The slow animations, aftercasts and cast times make it feel incredibly clunky compared to the otherwise relatively fluid gameplay of GW2. It becomes more apparent if you've played D/D Elementalist before, which has fluid gameplay as a big selling point.
    • The slow ticking fields make it important that your target is as immobile as you are on staff. Meteor Shower - the golden child of Staff Ele - is infamous for rooting you into place. This isn't only a pvp/wvw issue, it can also be felt with the tremendous amount of world boss monsters that want you to jump over their shockwave attacks. The damage also has been nerfed over and over again.

    There are several classes with core weapons that are in the same boat; Core Warrior Sword F1 is exactly identical; rooted in place for 3 seconds. This is too painful to use on mobs in pve anymore because of how much more dangerous mobs are to facetank.

    Some of these weapon skills just need to be unrooted to see how they do. I know that would make a huge difference for warrior sword and ele staff...

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Bleikopf.2491 said:
    However, its design is behind the current state of GW2:

    • The slow animations, aftercasts and cast times make it feel incredibly clunky compared to the otherwise relatively fluid gameplay of GW2. It becomes more apparent if you've played D/D Elementalist before, which has fluid gameplay as a big selling point.
    • The slow ticking fields make it important that your target is as immobile as you are on staff. Meteor Shower - the golden child of Staff Ele - is infamous for rooting you into place. This isn't only a pvp/wvw issue, it can also be felt with the tremendous amount of world boss monsters that want you to jump over their shockwave attacks. The damage also has been nerfed over and over again.

    There are several classes with core weapons that are in the same boat; Core Warrior Sword F1 is exactly identical; rooted in place for 3 seconds. This is too painful to use on mobs in pve anymore because of how much more dangerous mobs are to facetank.

    Some of these weapon skills just need to be unrooted to see how they do. I know that would make a huge difference for warrior sword and ele staff...

    Oddly ele is the only core class in the game that is simply weaker then its elite spec. There realty is no reason to run core ele you can fine reason to run core any thing else in the game. It has a lot to do with core eles weapons being on its elite spec and being so importen to the class / elite spec.

    Its best to think of ele less of a mages and more of an wepon master.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Bleikopf.2491 said:
    However, its design is behind the current state of GW2:

    • The slow animations, aftercasts and cast times make it feel incredibly clunky compared to the otherwise relatively fluid gameplay of GW2. It becomes more apparent if you've played D/D Elementalist before, which has fluid gameplay as a big selling point.
    • The slow ticking fields make it important that your target is as immobile as you are on staff. Meteor Shower - the golden child of Staff Ele - is infamous for rooting you into place. This isn't only a pvp/wvw issue, it can also be felt with the tremendous amount of world boss monsters that want you to jump over their shockwave attacks. The damage also has been nerfed over and over again.

    There are several classes with core weapons that are in the same boat; Core Warrior Sword F1 is exactly identical; rooted in place for 3 seconds. This is too painful to use on mobs in pve anymore because of how much more dangerous mobs are to facetank.

    Some of these weapon skills just need to be unrooted to see how they do. I know that would make a huge difference for warrior sword and ele staff...

    Oddly ele is the only core class in the game that is simply weaker then its elite spec. There realty is no reason to run core ele you can fine reason to run core any thing else in the game. It has a lot to do with core eles weapons being on its elite spec and being so importen to the class / elite spec.

    Its best to think of ele less of a mages and more of an wepon master.

    That is not unique to ele.

    Mesmer, Thief, Engineer to name 3 off the top of my head.

  • Core ele suffers from a few things.

    First being that all their utilities that are useful lean towards defense. Generally you are stuck with cantrips which makes you stuck with water.

    Healing and protection are too valuable to give up because damage is too low to go glass cannon. This makes arcane hard to give up.

    Signets and glyphs see almost no play because stun break or avoiding damage is too hard to pass up.

    Signets are good on their own if cc wasnt such a problem. Signet of air and sometimes fire are only ones worth having. Signet of water passive is great. Its active should be doing double its current heal or scale by 2.0 healing and increase its active by 5s to compensate. Signet of earth passive should be 10% less damage. Its active effect isnt that great either, but idk what id change.

    Glyph of renewal, should be 20s. Glyph of storms should be 30s flat cd. Reduce blind spam and vuln duration to compensate. Damage overall should be higher on them. Glyph elite is good. Glyph of elemental power is offensive but a stun break.

    Either change cc mechanic or give ele better access to stability if you want them to use other utilities. If you had a trait that gave a barrier on signet use it would encourage people to drop water for earth.

    3s of protection on aura is prob okay in pvp. Arcane would become less of a necessity for protection. (Glyphs provide great protection uptime on their own).

    The days of air water earth or fire air earth ele wouldnt be far off if they took the time to consider these changes. Frankly having rock solid provide 1s of stab every attunement swap and written in stone provide barrier on signet use would solve a lot of problems core ele suffers from ( remove cd reduction in place of barrier).

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Bleikopf.2491 said:
    However, its design is behind the current state of GW2:

    • The slow animations, aftercasts and cast times make it feel incredibly clunky compared to the otherwise relatively fluid gameplay of GW2. It becomes more apparent if you've played D/D Elementalist before, which has fluid gameplay as a big selling point.
    • The slow ticking fields make it important that your target is as immobile as you are on staff. Meteor Shower - the golden child of Staff Ele - is infamous for rooting you into place. This isn't only a pvp/wvw issue, it can also be felt with the tremendous amount of world boss monsters that want you to jump over their shockwave attacks. The damage also has been nerfed over and over again.

    There are several classes with core weapons that are in the same boat; Core Warrior Sword F1 is exactly identical; rooted in place for 3 seconds. This is too painful to use on mobs in pve anymore because of how much more dangerous mobs are to facetank.

    Some of these weapon skills just need to be unrooted to see how they do. I know that would make a huge difference for warrior sword and ele staff...

    Oddly ele is the only core class in the game that is simply weaker then its elite spec. There realty is no reason to run core ele you can fine reason to run core any thing else in the game. It has a lot to do with core eles weapons being on its elite spec and being so importen to the class / elite spec.

    Its best to think of ele less of a mages and more of an wepon master.

    That is not unique to ele.

    Mesmer, Thief, Engineer to name 3 off the top of my head.

    Well memer has different shatter effects eng has its F5 elite skill as for thf i do not know i know some ppl dislike the longer dodge time and well ele core gets nothing at all vs its elite spec.

    This IS unique to ele oddly the one class that lacks any other type of uniqueness.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Bleikopf.2491 said:
    However, its design is behind the current state of GW2:

    • The slow animations, aftercasts and cast times make it feel incredibly clunky compared to the otherwise relatively fluid gameplay of GW2. It becomes more apparent if you've played D/D Elementalist before, which has fluid gameplay as a big selling point.
    • The slow ticking fields make it important that your target is as immobile as you are on staff. Meteor Shower - the golden child of Staff Ele - is infamous for rooting you into place. This isn't only a pvp/wvw issue, it can also be felt with the tremendous amount of world boss monsters that want you to jump over their shockwave attacks. The damage also has been nerfed over and over again.

    There are several classes with core weapons that are in the same boat; Core Warrior Sword F1 is exactly identical; rooted in place for 3 seconds. This is too painful to use on mobs in pve anymore because of how much more dangerous mobs are to facetank.

    Some of these weapon skills just need to be unrooted to see how they do. I know that would make a huge difference for warrior sword and ele staff...

    Oddly ele is the only core class in the game that is simply weaker then its elite spec. There realty is no reason to run core ele you can fine reason to run core any thing else in the game. It has a lot to do with core eles weapons being on its elite spec and being so importen to the class / elite spec.

    Its best to think of ele less of a mages and more of an wepon master.

    That is not unique to ele.

    Mesmer, Thief, Engineer to name 3 off the top of my head.

    Well memer has different shatter effects eng has its F5 elite skill as for thf i do not know i know some ppl dislike the longer dodge time and well ele core gets nothing at all vs its elite spec.

    This IS unique to ele oddly the one class that lacks any other type of uniqueness.

    Yeah that is kind of the point of ele not to be unique but to be a jack-of-all-trades which ruines any form of uniqeness it could have.

    Elementalist - my one true love
    Just faffin around in OW
    ANet fix your servers plox

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2020

    @skunkstank.6128 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Bleikopf.2491 said:
    However, its design is behind the current state of GW2:

    • The slow animations, aftercasts and cast times make it feel incredibly clunky compared to the otherwise relatively fluid gameplay of GW2. It becomes more apparent if you've played D/D Elementalist before, which has fluid gameplay as a big selling point.
    • The slow ticking fields make it important that your target is as immobile as you are on staff. Meteor Shower - the golden child of Staff Ele - is infamous for rooting you into place. This isn't only a pvp/wvw issue, it can also be felt with the tremendous amount of world boss monsters that want you to jump over their shockwave attacks. The damage also has been nerfed over and over again.

    There are several classes with core weapons that are in the same boat; Core Warrior Sword F1 is exactly identical; rooted in place for 3 seconds. This is too painful to use on mobs in pve anymore because of how much more dangerous mobs are to facetank.

    Some of these weapon skills just need to be unrooted to see how they do. I know that would make a huge difference for warrior sword and ele staff...

    Oddly ele is the only core class in the game that is simply weaker then its elite spec. There realty is no reason to run core ele you can fine reason to run core any thing else in the game. It has a lot to do with core eles weapons being on its elite spec and being so importen to the class / elite spec.

    Its best to think of ele less of a mages and more of an wepon master.

    That is not unique to ele.

    Mesmer, Thief, Engineer to name 3 off the top of my head.

    Well memer has different shatter effects eng has its F5 elite skill as for thf i do not know i know some ppl dislike the longer dodge time and well ele core gets nothing at all vs its elite spec.

    This IS unique to ele oddly the one class that lacks any other type of uniqueness.

    Yeah that is kind of the point of ele not to be unique but to be a jack-of-all-trades which ruines any form of uniqeness it could have.

    Every class is jack of all triads they have been for a long time. Oddly ele is now the least jack of all trades of all of the classes now too.

    You missed my point comply the core ele has nothing over tempest and its the only core class like this now after they reworked other classes and elite spec. My point is that anet is actively forgetting about the ele class at any level tempest and weaver for real reworks.

    I cant see this changing for any elite spec anet adds in. Its kind of over for the ele class it has been for some time. There is no hope. Every update is only proving this point.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Hi,

    I'm coming here to explain my point of view as a pvp/wvw main ele. Maybe someone from anet will read that and think about.

    Well friends we are suffering, ele is doing things but it's never the best at it, it's most of the time the worst, except maybe aura share but nowadays wars are better support.

    Let's decompose this analysis based on specs and weapon.

    First of all core ele, not much to say it's just not doing fine at any spot, there are tons of class out there doing way better than core ele.

    Secondly tempest, the eternal healbot, it's funny but it's just about spamming auras, there are no any game breaking skills (maybe tornado) as other support class has. Also it does little to no pressure on enemy team. You can also play dps LR tempest, it's funny but against good players you'll never land any successful overload, rip.

    Finally the weaver. Oh man how hyped I was when they revealed sword on ele, I was thinking of it as a melee bruiser with lots of damage and mobility, the result ends up to be disappointing. Weaver mechanics is really good, but man, weapons skills...

    So let's now go into the deepest issues of eles, weapons!

    Daggers: I use to love DD ele, it was my first crush on the game back in 2012 and now it's just meh. The burst is low (if you are not full glassy which mandatory), mobility suck, dagger offhand is not used at all and main hand it's the best we have (we'll come to scepter). Daggers used to be the offtank weapons of ele, giving you damage, mobility and sustain, sadly it's been overperformed by almost everything.

    Focus: The best offhand weapon out there, simply because dagger sucks. The main issue there is you don't have any offensive offhand on ele. Still I think focus is our best weapon

    Scepter: Here we are, the most painful weapon. I used to love playing FA core ele, the scepter felt kitten good and offers lots of counterplays. The burst was all nice and it has some blind which help. But again, as daggers, it's now completely under performing, after all nerfs to FA weaver you full burst is not able to kill anything. I played it again recently and it was just so bad, damage is low, mobility is non existent, defensive cd are just useless... This weapon is a shame on this state and because of it burst ele is just bad. And please, don't come up with the "yes but It could one shot someone so it needed to be nerfed". There are legit a ton a things that can one shot in this game, lot's of class can 100-0 in few seconds with the right combo, the difference was that zerk FA weaver was squishy as hell when reaper, reve, holo are tanky and thief/mesmer can stealth and got better mobility.

    Staff: not much to say, never been meta in pvp, in wvw it's meh.

    Warhorn: funny but skills are not good compared to focus

    Sword: skill are slow, so slow, animations takes forever which makes damages so easy to dodge. This weapon needs to be rework. All autos attacks are slow, fire 2 is nice but too slow to land, water 2 needs to be something else, air 2 is fine, earth 2 we need to be able to move while using it.... I'm not going to comment all the 3 skills it's mostly about slow animation. It's even worst if you compare to other classes swords like rev or guardian.

    Lastly I would also address some specific considerations about how low are damages on this class, disclaimer I don't care of pve meta, I think that PVP, PVE and WVW must all have separate meta otherwise ele is just impossible to balance. But please, nowadays any class got more damage than ele, the LR weaver requires you to go zerk to do something and because you are that squishy you get oneshoted by anything. I don't find it fair, on reaper, holo or reve damages are so much higher, any skill can be a 4-5k crit while on ele it's 2k max? If you beat someone that means you have to outplay him several times while he only has to hit you once... As I said anything ele does something does it way better so what's the point of this class? It's been underperforming for years now, since 2015 the only viable build at high elo was the aurashare support. Sure fire weaver had a spot but if a team had to choose between weaver or holo/soulbeast they put a cross on the ele. FA weaver was sometimes shinning when there were no good thief or mesmer but now it's pointless to bring such garbage... Other classes elite spec got reworked (reaper, berserker, scrapper, ...) but ele stayed the same, tempest hasn't moved since 2015 and weaver since 2017. Staff and Scepter got nerfed and that's basically it. The only rework we had was on.... AURAS, yes of course, let's change a bit the only thing that's viable... This rework was minor to nothing, hasn't change the playstyle, hasn't bring anything new, it's just meh.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @korioaurel.3041 said:
    Hi,

    I'm coming here to explain my point of view as a pvp/wvw main ele. Maybe someone from anet will read that and think about.

    Well friends we are suffering, ele is doing things but it's never the best at it, it's most of the time the worst, except maybe aura share but nowadays wars are better support.

    Let's decompose this analysis based on specs and weapon.

    First of all core ele, not much to say it's just not doing fine at any spot, there are tons of class out there doing way better than core ele.

    Secondly tempest, the eternal healbot, it's funny but it's just about spamming auras, there are no any game breaking skills (maybe tornado) as other support class has. Also it does little to no pressure on enemy team. You can also play dps LR tempest, it's funny but against good players you'll never land any successful overload, rip.

    Finally the weaver. Oh man how hyped I was when they revealed sword on ele, I was thinking of it as a melee bruiser with lots of damage and mobility, the result ends up to be disappointing. Weaver mechanics is really good, but man, weapons skills...

    So let's now go into the deepest issues of eles, weapons!

    Daggers: I use to love DD ele, it was my first crush on the game back in 2012 and now it's just meh. The burst is low (if you are not full glassy which mandatory), mobility suck, dagger offhand is not used at all and main hand it's the best we have (we'll come to scepter). Daggers used to be the offtank weapons of ele, giving you damage, mobility and sustain, sadly it's been overperformed by almost everything.

    Focus: The best offhand weapon out there, simply because dagger sucks. The main issue there is you don't have any offensive offhand on ele. Still I think focus is our best weapon

    Scepter: Here we are, the most painful weapon. I used to love playing FA core ele, the scepter felt kitten good and offers lots of counterplays. The burst was all nice and it has some blind which help. But again, as daggers, it's now completely under performing, after all nerfs to FA weaver you full burst is not able to kill anything. I played it again recently and it was just so bad, damage is low, mobility is non existent, defensive cd are just useless... This weapon is a shame on this state and because of it burst ele is just bad. And please, don't come up with the "yes but It could one shot someone so it needed to be nerfed". There are legit a ton a things that can one shot in this game, lot's of class can 100-0 in few seconds with the right combo, the difference was that zerk FA weaver was squishy as hell when reaper, reve, holo are tanky and thief/mesmer can stealth and got better mobility.

    Staff: not much to say, never been meta in pvp, in wvw it's meh.

    Warhorn: funny but skills are not good compared to focus

    Sword: skill are slow, so slow, animations takes forever which makes damages so easy to dodge. This weapon needs to be rework. All autos attacks are slow, fire 2 is nice but too slow to land, water 2 needs to be something else, air 2 is fine, earth 2 we need to be able to move while using it.... I'm not going to comment all the 3 skills it's mostly about slow animation. It's even worst if you compare to other classes swords like rev or guardian.

    Lastly I would also address some specific considerations about how low are damages on this class, disclaimer I don't care of pve meta, I think that PVP, PVE and WVW must all have separate meta otherwise ele is just impossible to balance. But please, nowadays any class got more damage than ele, the LR weaver requires you to go zerk to do something and because you are that squishy you get oneshoted by anything. I don't find it fair, on reaper, holo or reve damages are so much higher, any skill can be a 4-5k crit while on ele it's 2k max? If you beat someone that means you have to outplay him several times while he only has to hit you once... As I said anything ele does something does it way better so what's the point of this class? It's been underperforming for years now, since 2015 the only viable build at high elo was the aurashare support. Sure fire weaver had a spot but if a team had to choose between weaver or holo/soulbeast they put a cross on the ele. FA weaver was sometimes shinning when there were no good thief or mesmer but now it's pointless to bring such garbage... Other classes elite spec got reworked (reaper, berserker, scrapper, ...) but ele stayed the same, tempest hasn't moved since 2015 and weaver since 2017. Staff and Scepter got nerfed and that's basically it. The only rework we had was on.... AURAS, yes of course, let's change a bit the only thing that's viable... This rework was minor to nothing, hasn't change the playstyle, hasn't bring anything new, it's just meh.

    You summarized the reasons I don't play this game anymore even though I have 3 other main along with ele....waste of time and effort

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Alex.2908Alex.2908 Member ✭✭
    edited January 4, 2021

    Anet please stop blaming ele, the problem is not the ele, the problem is the game itself. The elementalist was a hard class but if you played it well you had great results. I said that it was because the weaver is easy to play, is all about spamming and rotation, no more tactical thinking, no more adapting to the situation, just spamming, try to defend against a ranger burst with skill 4 from earth if you are attuned on air/fire. Now the elementalist (without weaver) is still a hard class but other classes, that are easy to use, have greater or the same performance. I see this as a intentional dumb down, how come someone engi who is using just the skill 1 from the flame thrower can kill a elementalist that is using 20 weapon skills? how come a perma invisible deadeye can kill a elementalist with 2 shoots and the only protection for the ele are 3 seconds of reflect? perma invisible vs 3 seconds of reflect, rofl... how come a warrior can burst on a ele while totally invulnerable but the ele cant use Obsidian Flesh to defend anymore? warrior would outrun you anyway, much faster, easier to use, almost perma invincible and all you have are 3 seconds of pointless invincible running, Obsidian Flesh had its purpose but some small minds just wanted to wreck it. Why do i have to use rune of speed or air traits on an elementalist to be able to run from almost any other class? why only tank builds with mega low dps work on WvW (fresh air full zerk will die from retaliation from the zerg)? why the ele has no chance from close distance against a engi that has almost all the benefits automatically provided?

    So why do i have to use 25 skills to do the same thing that other classes do with 6? So the problem is not the elementalist, is the direction that this game is going to, to be made easy to play for as many people as possible.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2021

    @Alex.2908 said:
    Anet please stop blaming ele, the problem is not the ele, the problem is the game itself. The elementalist was a hard class but if you played it well you had great results. I said that it was because the weaver is easy to play, is all about spamming and rotation, no more tactical thinking, no more adapting to the situation, just spamming, try to defend against a ranger burst with skill 4 from earth if you are attuned on air/fire. Now the elementalist (without weaver) is still a hard class but other classes, that are easy to use, have greater or the same performance. I see this as a intentional dumb down, how come someone engi who is using just the skill 1 from the flame thrower can kill a elementalist that is using 20 weapon skills? how come a perma invisible deadeye can kill a elementalist with 2 shoots and the only protection for the ele are 3 seconds of reflect? perma invisible vs 3 seconds of reflect, rofl... how come a warrior can burst on a ele while totally invulnerable but the ele cant use Obsidian Flesh to defend anymore? warrior would outrun you anyway, much faster, easier to use, almost perma invincible and all you have are 3 seconds of pointless invincible running, Obsidian Flesh had its purpose but some small minds just wanted to wreck it. Why do i have to use rune of speed or air traits on an elementalist to be able to run from almost any other class? why only tank builds with mega low dps work on WvW (fresh air full zerk will die from retaliation from the zerg)? why do i have to use

    So why do i have to use 25 skills to do the same thing that other classes do with 6 but a lot worst? So the problem is not the elementalist, is the direction that this game is going to, to be made easy to play for as many people as possible.

    If weaver is so easy, why are you worrying about reflect on earth 4 to counter ranger burst when you're in air/fire? Just rotate earth to proc protection (arcane), giving you access to the evade on earth 2 and the projectile hate on air 4. Then you still have the reflect on earth 4 on your next rotation into x/earth if you need more projectile hate. Being unable to access earth 4 on demand the way other builds can and instead finding a way to set yourself up with what you need not just now but 4 seconds from now is part of the challenge of playing weaver.

    Not that I am supporting elementalist's position in the meta. It was really irresponsible of them to drop this bomb on competitive modes and then walk away after promising they wouldn't do that. Unfortunately, elementalist didn't come out ahead in that deal and there doesn't appear to be any relief on the horizon with EoD being the focus for the foreseeable future.

  • Alex.2908Alex.2908 Member ✭✭
    edited January 5, 2021

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    If weaver is so easy, why are you worrying about reflect on earth 4 to counter ranger burst when you're in air/fire? Just rotate earth to proc protection (arcane), giving you access to the evade on earth 2 and the projectile hate on air 4. Then you still have the reflect on earth 4 on your next rotation into x/earth if you need more projectile hate. Being unable to access earth 4 on demand the way other builds can and instead finding a way to set yourself up with what you need not just now but 4 seconds from now is part of the challenge of playing weaver.

    You are right, there are some other ways to handle a ranger charge (like dodge twice and sh** like that) but that was not the point.

    The way i see things is that the weaver is a bit of YOLO, if is working is working, if is not working than you're ******. Thats why the most builds from pvp that work focus on spamming the rotation than running away if is not working, nothing impromptu, no change of tactics, no try again, no new tactics, just... tap that kitten then hit the gas. And thats exactly what i liked about the core ele, it can adapt to all kinds of situations. It is not perfect on any situation but was quite good for most of them, thats why celestial builds were so great and, whats the most important, it was fun... since Anet added the specializations the notion of fun was replaced with the nothin of win, and not any type of win but the win easy win.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alex.2908 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    If weaver is so easy, why are you worrying about reflect on earth 4 to counter ranger burst when you're in air/fire? Just rotate earth to proc protection (arcane), giving you access to the evade on earth 2 and the projectile hate on air 4. Then you still have the reflect on earth 4 on your next rotation into x/earth if you need more projectile hate. Being unable to access earth 4 on demand the way other builds can and instead finding a way to set yourself up with what you need not just now but 4 seconds from now is part of the challenge of playing weaver.

    You are right, there are some other ways to handle a ranger charge (like dodge twice and sh** like that) but that was not the point.

    The way i see things is that the weaver is a bit of YOLO, if is working is working, if is not working than you're ******. Thats why the most builds from pvp that work focus on spamming the rotation than running away if is not working, nothing impromptu, no change of tactics, no try again, no new tactics, just... tap that kitten then hit the gas. And thats exactly what i liked about the core ele, it can adapt to all kinds of situations. It is not perfect on any situation but was quite good for most of them, thats why celestial builds were so great and, whats the most important, it was fun... since Anet added the specializations the notion of fun was replaced with the nothin of win, and not any type of win but the win easy win.

    I think weaver is the best example of what an elite spec should be in terms of its impact on play style. It represents a dramatic change in feel relative to its core spec. Compare to tempest, which is pretty much just core ele with access to shouts and overloads. Central to that is this tradeoff. Being locked into your attunement choices with half of that choice predetermined by your previous swap, able to access only part of your kit from your current attunement configuration.

    Having said that, I completely understand that this "locked in" feel is not everyone's cup of tea. If you love core ele, you might not love weaver. That's just how it's going to be the more dramatic the departure is from the core design. That's also not an excuse for the various legitimate complaints players have regarding weaver and elementalist in general!

    Don't overlook the positives that come with the trade, however. Consider the previous example:

    I'm getting my face rapid fired by a ranger while in air/fire. What do I do? I could just dodge, rotate attunements, and cast air 4 for the projectile block. It's a 0.5s cast, but the barrier generated from dodge combined with passive signet healing should result in negligible damage. It would probably be best to rotate to earth regardless, as protection will reduce any damage that does land and the evade on earth 2 is there as well if I need it. However, I could also rotate to water and use riptide to evade, heal, and close distance. Or if they're close enough, polaric leap for the interrupt and gap close, rotate fire and attempt to land a gale -> pyrovortex to turn the tables!

    Compare to core/tempest. If I rotate to water or earth to use the skills I have there, I don't get to access those offhand air skills anymore. I do get to use the offhand skills of that attunement on demand, however. That's the tradeoff. Neither one is "better". They're very different, which I think is a good thing! I wish more elite specs felt this impactful.

  • Alex.2908Alex.2908 Member ✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I think weaver is the best example of what an elite spec should be in terms of its impact on play style. It represents a dramatic change in feel relative to its core spec. Compare to tempest, which is pretty much just core ele with access to shouts and overloads. Central to that is this tradeoff. Being locked into your attunement choices with half of that choice predetermined by your previous swap, able to access only part of your kit from your current attunement configuration.

    Having said that, I completely understand that this "locked in" feel is not everyone's cup of tea. If you love core ele, you might not love weaver. That's just how it's going to be the more dramatic the departure is from the core design. That's also not an excuse for the various legitimate complaints players have regarding weaver and elementalist in general!

    Don't overlook the positives that come with the trade, however. Consider the previous example:

    I'm getting my face rapid fired by a ranger while in air/fire. What do I do? I could just dodge, rotate attunements, and cast air 4 for the projectile block. It's a 0.5s cast, but the barrier generated from dodge combined with passive signet healing should result in negligible damage. It would probably be best to rotate to earth regardless, as protection will reduce any damage that does land and the evade on earth 2 is there as well if I need it. However, I could also rotate to water and use riptide to evade, heal, and close distance. Or if they're close enough, polaric leap for the interrupt and gap close, rotate fire and attempt to land a gale -> pyrovortex to turn the tables!

    Compare to core/tempest. If I rotate to water or earth to use the skills I have there, I don't get to access those offhand air skills anymore. I do get to use the offhand skills of that attunement on demand, however. That's the tradeoff. Neither one is "better". They're very different, which I think is a good thing! I wish more elite specs felt this impactful.

    Thanks for the tutorial but i dont think that it helps to progress with the discussion. As i said before, there are all kind of ways to dodge/block/heal any type of attack, even the weaver has them in a way or the other, but that doesnt mean that the weaver is a properly balanced specialization. I think is too easy to use and too boring and, unfortunately, this is the direction that this game is heading to with most classes. Remember when everybody was wearing zerk gear and how technical the combat was?