Another way to earn LI please

Hello!I'm waiting for my squad to be complete and I was thinking with myself: "you have a legendary armor already, are you sure you wanna nerd to farm 300 for the second one? Repeating again 300 times content you did already? Please Anet, there must be another way to get li in pve T_T this is just too boring.

Then dont do it mate.

@Linken.6345 said:Then dont do it mate.

This.

You can also Spvp or WvW. Time commitment is similar for future raid sets after the first

I've asked many times, as well. Wish we could have legy armor (with unique skins) without so much raiding. Having some is understandable, like the collections. Personally don't like those, but it's doable and makes armor rarer. The way it's done is pretty insane IMO, especially with no alternative for armor with its own skins.

*Points to signature then leaves thread.

My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

@"Donutdude.9582" said:My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

It still very much applies. For what they are worth, legendary armor is nothing more than ascended armor with a few added benefits. It's not a gear treadmill, the main thing they spoke up against, because ascended will potentially forever stay the strongest tier of gear in the game and has about a hundred different ways of acquiring it. Locking things behind a time requirement and "grind" exists to ensure people keep playing something at least a little while. Imagine you got legendary armor after full clearing every raid once. Would that feel good? Would legendaries with a unique skin really be interesting at all if that was all it took? The answer to that is no. Many people want it and don't want to put in the time, that's fine, but from a game design standpoint this was the one thing they could not just hand out even more participation trophies for.

@Blocki.4931 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

I dont think anyone seriously expects to obtian any leggy, armour or weapons after a single run but neither does everyone enjoy rerunning the same content another 300 times .. that is grind whether it be for gear stat grind or gear cosmetic grind.It is the same mechanic to achieve the same thing... a self perceived best in game item(s). All ANET have done is transpose stats for appearance.

@"Donutdude.9582" said:My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

It is not much you have to do. Top raiders are sitting at 2k LIs+LDs and have nothing to spend them on for over a year already

I've been enjoying the ride, honestly.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

Basically any event now awards 1 LI, not even the bosses. That is a rather recent change, but I think that helps a lot.

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

Not really.. it's not a case of twisting anything to anyone's needs, it is merely stating a fact.ANET made a big thing of promoting "we shall not grind!", it was a major SP... but that quickly got lost in the ether if we're all honest, not perhaps on purpose, but in order for the business model to make good and for the business to stem the haemorrhaging of players all MMO's suffer after initial launch impact.What players state is fact, but in order for a product to be sustainable there will always have to be some give and take. The content alone imo suffers poor replay value and the studio cant push out content every week so in order to keep the game moving forward it needed to introduce ways of keeping players logging in.. personally I think some of those things are just way over the top grind, but luckily I am not a player that wants to inwardly digest and keep regurgitating it over and over again, just for a single shiny.. but that is just me.

BUT it is a fact ANET have gone way of point when considering thate 6yr + old mandate.... it may be unfair to compare the then and now, because undoubtedly things can and will change especially in MMO space, but it is not twisting something if it is indeed a fact.

The no grinding part that ANet promised was always mostly regarding gearing, iirc they said something along the lines "don't want players ot have to grind to get the gear they need to play the game" or some such. Ascended and everything else is free to grind basically, as long as everyone has easy access to full exotics through easy accessible means (TP, Karma orr, crafting, dungeons, once in a blue moon drops).

Other than that, the game already lets you play whatever you want, and liquidate what you earned into gold on the TP, and buy most of the stuff you want anyways, much more than is honestly expected out of an MMO. So compared to all other MMO's they're doing a good job of upholding that promise even outside of that.

The really grindy things are always "fashion" stuff, and basically not needed/required to play the game in any way.

Do I personally wish they had even less grinding? Yes, I do. Do I think it is realistic to expect it? Nope, not at all.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

ANet's reference to "grind" was referencing other games, in which all gear becomes obsolete with every expansion. The only grind referred to is the acquisition & maintenance of max-stat gear.

ANet has always been upfront that all their games, updates, patches include grindy aspects; they have never remotely suggested ending the "repeat the same thing over again to obtain things."

I did a raid once and then never again. Too bad PvP and WvW legendary armor doesn't count toward the achievement. At least there's options!

Still waiting for PvE (non Raid) legendary armor. I mean PvP and WvW got a method each so why not PvE also having a second?

@"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:I did a raid once and then never again. Too bad PvP and WvW legendary armor doesn't count toward the achievement. At least there's options!

Still waiting for PvE (non Raid) legendary armor. I mean PvP and WvW got a method each so why not PvE also having a second?

If pve ever gets an second legendary armor would it be any better for you If its a "fractal Legendary armor"? I mean i really cant see anet doing openworld Legendary armor. difference between raids and t4 +CMs is pretty small.

Just curious why you dont want to give second chance for raids? :)

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

Then you watched some very different promo stuff to me and others... yeah I still redeemer that swing a sword, swing it again, swing it a 100 times" little piece by Colin and how GW2 was going to be different and take away that grindy aspect.But you maybe misunderstand what I was saying, I actually understand why the game has become littered with one lengthy grind after another, it was always going to have to creep into the game if it was going to keep sufficient numbers logging back in for as long as they could until the next content drop could be pushed through.. its just business and business has to changes in order to stay relevant, make money and move a product forward.Look, we all know ANET can't do anything wrong in your eyes and that is all fine and dandy, but not everyone sees the game the same way and not everyone appreciates the changes and direction the game has taken over the years. But then again there are some of those that fall into that bracket who do understand why it has to happen and the benefit it might bring longer terms, but it still doesn't mean they have to like it is all.At the end of the day though the crucial difference GW2 has over those traditional MMO grindwars is that cosmetics are desirables, not absolute necessity, players have the choice whether to go for it or let it pass by. They bring no real advantage over another except maybe Leggy stat swaps (more relevant I guess since the sigil/rune malarkey perhaps), but looking good is a far cry than being good and having the Best in Game Stats even if ANET have simply transposed that idea with a players desire to have that "must have skin"

@"lokh.2695" said:*Points to signature then leaves thread.(relevant part of signature quoted for clarity)If you want X, and Y is needed to get get X, you also have to want Y if you really want X. If you don't want Y, you don't want X. It's easy.

You do realize, that when X and Y are only arbitrarily linked, and in reality are completely different and unrelated things, this is simply not true? You can very easily want X without wanting Y.

In this case it's "If you don't want Y, you don't get X", which is something completely different. "want", and "have to" are not the same thing.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

I'm going to leave some links, which by now are over 6 years old, to shed some light on what and how the misquoted and misunderstood manifesto actually looks like. First off a reddit thread from the past which deals with this, might be an interesting read to some:https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2okqd2/what_is_the_origin_of_play_how_i_want_in_gw2/

Now to the remaining relevant link quoting Collin:https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

To make playing in our open world worthwhile, we’ll make it rewarding enough for players to spend their time there across all levels. It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

Now people love to mix some thing up. The first being grind when it comes to cosmetic items. This comes up way to often. There was never a promise that cosmetic items would be free, easy to get or handed out freely (even though there is thousands of skins which are cheap, easy to come by or part of free hand outs like birthday gifts).

The second is the "no grind" assumption which is taken out of context. The offer was and always has been: play in which ever game mode you like, and you will be able to achieve max gear. You are not forced into any specific content to achieve max level gear. There is some early stuff on achievements and being able to do those for gear as well, that has changed slightly over the years but mostly remains true.

There have been 2 semi-breaches so far with the original manifesto:

• the introduction of ascended gear early on, which was only available via certain game modes originally. This has been remedied to a certain extent by now.
• the introduction of legendary armor via raids, which requires a certain content. Though one could make the argument that max level gear in form of ascended gear is still attainable via any game play

Now if all people present in this discussion could take these things to heart and stop misusing the "manifesto" (which holds up surprisingly well for being over 6 years old), we could all get back to our daily business.

There was never a promise of "no grind". That's made up bogus (yet even as such, it remains true for pve since most pve content is scaled to exotic gear which is very cheap).

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"lokh.2695" said:*Points to signature then leaves thread.(relevant part of signature quoted for clarity)If you want X, and Y is needed to get get X, you also have to want Y if you really want X. If you don't want Y, you don't want X. It's easy.

There could be other ways to get legendary armor in PvE, but never other ways to get LI. They are a Raid Trophy.

It's weird enough already that one can get dungeon tokens from pvp/wvw tracks instead just the skins.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

The difference being that @Illconceived Was Na.9781 read/watched the promo stuff that actually existed.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:My only disappointment with raiding for legendary armour is the amount that you have to do. Why? Guild Wars 2 was marketed as a "no-grind" MMORPG. Despite the fact that I enjoy crafting legendary weapons at the moment and I am sizing up some PvP Ascended/Legendary armour, it is frustrating that ArenaNet went against their manifesto.

Do you need gear better than Exotic? Not want, not there is better gear, do you need gear better than Exotic? The answer is no. No you don't. How difficult is it to get Exotic gear? Not at all. Where is the grind? To play the game, to do all the standard stuff, especially the stuff that comes with the Core game, Exotic is all you need and it is sufficient for all your needs.

Anything beyond standard Exotic gear is for a skin, and isn't needed or for Fractals/Raiding, which provides for its own. The only thing better than Exotic is Ascended, and the only places where that's important are in the two places you're likely to get it somewhat easily. Legendary is an extravagance, and nothing more. As such any amount of grind fits into the original concept of cosmetics, which they have always admitted where meant to work that way.

Even if you are only killing 10 bosses per week, you are repeating the content 30 times, not 300. There are also PvP and WvW legendary sets, which you can work toward while getting your LIs. I really don't see much of an issue with the current setup.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/No-grind-philosophy/page/4#post4733273

Copy & pasted since the manifesto keeps getting referenced in threads like these:

Hey folks,

I just want to take a second to address this topic, because it’s something we state as one of our key philosophies – but don’t often clarify exactly what we mean we say it. And because everyone and their mother has their own unique interpretation of what grind can mean, it’s very simple for this to feel like we’re not following our own guidelines when we build and implement content.

When our company president said we have an anti-grind philosophy way back before Gw2 shipped, and when it has been repeatedly reinforced since then, our statement is simply: “We don’t think you should need to grind to get the best gear and stats in Guild Wars 2”.

So what exactly does that mean:

• The best gear/stats: This means to have statistically the best abilities in the game, you shouldn’t need to, by our definition of the word, grind. This goes for leveling and getting top gear (by our definition that’s ascended gear, legendary being an optional extra thing you can do, but don’t need to do.)
• Grind: To us, grind means being required to do the same boring activity over and over again. In particular, the biggest reference we’re talking about here in traditional MMO’s is having to kill the same creatures over and over again to farm for levels or gear. In Gw2, you can gain exp and levels from a massive variety of game play, game modes, and content types. Same goes for the ability to acquire the gear to build up your characters. Similarly, ascended mats can be acquired from a wide variety of content types and game modes to allow you choice and options so you don’t need to grind to complete those goals. Our new mastery system continues to this promise as well, which we’ll go into more detail on soon.

There are certainly optional activities in the game players can embark on that I think we’d openly accept fall into the category of our definition of more “grindy”. Earning certain unique skins, and in particular some titles absolutely qualify as things we’d put on this list. Legendary weapons have components to them that fall into this category, though we’ll be doing work in HOT to make this much less the case. We feel these are optional choices players don’t need to do, but can if they want, and because they are optional are acceptable within our statement that “Gw2 doesn’t make you grind to have the best gear/stats”. That doesn’t mean we can’t make those activities more fun as well, but when we say “no grind philosophy” we’re not including optional things you can do, but don’t need to do, in our definition.

Hope that helps a bit, that’s our philosophy and definition we’re going by when we make those statements. They may not align to your definition of grind, and that’s ok – we’re fine with that! It’s just important you know what we mean when we make that statement so you can make decisions about how you view Gw2 and judge us by our actions/words.

Thanks again for being so passionate about this topic and the game which ever side of the discussion you fall on. It’s something incredibly important to modern MMO’s and gamers in general, and we truly appreciate the dialogue you all are having on topics like this. It’s what makes better games for all of us.