When did GW2 turn into a grindfest? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

When did GW2 turn into a grindfest?

I remember Guild Wars 2 being an living breathing game where you felt part of the game.
Now that I return after a long absence and I start HoT I am immediatly met with "glider requirements" meaning
I have to do quests thats are non critical and non storyline just to earn points to get to use gliders. This bodes very ill for the
rest of the game , oh and I have a level 80 too with PoF and got the mount, but guess what, in order to go onwards got to get to
level 3 of that raptor mount just to get on with the questing. When did the game go from being about the storyline and the rest
being sidelines if you was interested to be a grindfest for "rep" with different things just to get onwards with a quest?
Its nothing but time sinks, these "reputation grinds" that you got to get glider, mount, different level of mount etc.
It does not affect the story anyway, and it it not shown in the story "Oh yeah, you have to be level 3 with flappety flapp over there
in order to face the dragon"....really....

<134

Comments

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    It's never been possible to focus entirely on the story and ignore the open-world stuff...at least not without using a work-around to gain the XP you'll miss. Even before they split the personal story into chapters, when you could attempt any step at any level if you did nothing else you'd quickly fall so far below the level requirement that it wasn't possible to complete it without help. Since they didn't raise the level cap when the expansions were released the masteries serve the same purpose.

    IMO it makes sense to do that if you're interested in the story, because those "non critical" side stories actually tie into the main story, helping to set the scene, introduce characters and progress events so everything will make a lot more sense if you do the story and the open-world events in the same area around the same time.

    Admittedly I can see how it would be frustrating if you just want to get the story finished as quickly as possible and you're not interested in the details, but in that case I'm pretty sure there are numerous guides around on how to get the masteries trained as quickly as possible. (I seem to remember people recommended the Pale Reaver's event chain around Dry Step Mesas and Shrouded Ruins to train up gliding, but I'm not sure if things have changed since HoT was released.)

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "I know that I'm born and I know that I'll die, the in-between is mine."

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Progression systems are extremely important to any kind of game with longevity.

    Bite me.

  • OutOfOrder.3719OutOfOrder.3719 Member ✭✭✭

    I think you are under the impression that you will have to unlock gliding for every character. But thankfully, it unlocks for every character in your account.

    PoF has 100% less grind as it takes less time to level up those masteries.

  • @Obtena.7952 said:
    never? I mean, what are you grinding that you need?

    You see, Anet never said there would be no grind because obviously that's dumb; there needs something you can grind to keep you interested in the game. Anet was specifically talking about needing to grind to get access to content, either with gear grinds or unlocking content. So far, they have delivered.

    So let's be honest. The game never became a grind ... you're just finding things you want that require it. If you're going to define 'gilder masteries' as grinding, I guess you should stick with FPS games or something, because that's a pretty tame 'grind' that you can achieve simply by playing the game. I guess if you're not willing to play the game, then I can see where you apply that label to it.

    never became a grind? Ummm, I played chaper 1-8 without ANY grind in personal story. The moment I switch to HoT I am met with a grind.

    and as for me sticking with FPS, what kind of response is that, should I tell you to go stick your head into japanese grindfests cause you seems to
    like it so much or Korean MMO that thrives on grind so much that when they tried having more content for storyline the playerbase revolted against
    it. should I tell you to go live there? what kind of response.

    Let me clarify you grinding cause you seem to not have a clue, doing same quest several times just to gain achivement points, thats grinding.
    Thats not developing anything, it is an endless hamsterwheel of going about doing same thing every single day you log in, just to get you X points
    ïn whyatever you are seeking after, thats fine for those that trying to achieve something but putting such stops into storyline, is not cool.

    so should I assume then that the story ends after personal storyline is over? because it seems there is a jump from that to HoT and in that it seems I have to run the hamsterwheel just to get glider working.

  • Jotunhammer.7029Jotunhammer.7029 Member ✭✭
    edited August 26, 2019

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    It's never been possible to focus entirely on the story and ignore the open-world stuff...at least not without using a work-around to gain the XP you'll miss. Even before they split the personal story into chapters, when you could attempt any step at any level if you did nothing else you'd quickly fall so far below the level requirement that it wasn't possible to complete it without help. Since they didn't raise the level cap when the expansions were released the masteries serve the same purpose.

    IMO it makes sense to do that if you're interested in the story, because those "non critical" side stories actually tie into the main story, helping to set the scene, introduce characters and progress events so everything will make a lot more sense if you do the story and the open-world events in the same area around the same time.

    Admittedly I can see how it would be frustrating if you just want to get the story finished as quickly as possible and you're interested in the details, but in that case I'm pretty sure there are numerous guides around on how to get the masteries trained as quickly as possible. (I seem to remember people recommended the Pale Reaver's event chain around Dry Step Mesas and Shrouded Ruins to train up gliding, but I'm not sure if things have changed since HoT was released.)

    I would rather spend gems etc on xp pots than to do grindfest to get to continue with the storyline. I hate grindfest, I hate being forced to run the hamsterwheel either for dungeons or for whatever achivement required for special flyers etc, it is the developers way of making you run around do nothing special that affects the storynothing. had it been like the isla of quel'thelas(sp?) in wow where you build the island from dailies etc it would make sense, but running around killing worms from the ground or minotaurs running amock, its making no sense. and it is detering me from the game itself

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2019

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    never? I mean, what are you grinding that you need?

    You see, Anet never said there would be no grind because obviously that's dumb; there needs something you can grind to keep you interested in the game. Anet was specifically talking about needing to grind to get access to content, either with gear grinds or unlocking content. So far, they have delivered.

    So let's be honest. The game never became a grind ... you're just finding things you want that require it. If you're going to define 'gilder masteries' as grinding, I guess you should stick with FPS games or something, because that's a pretty tame 'grind' that you can achieve simply by playing the game. I guess if you're not willing to play the game, then I can see where you apply that label to it.

    never became a grind? Ummm, I played chaper 1-8 without ANY grind in personal story. The moment I switch to HoT I am met with a grind.

    That doesn't make sense. If you play the story and through the content, there is ALSO no grind in HoT because you earn the masteries as you play ... JUST like you earn your regular levels as you go through the maps and your story. The suggestion to stick with FPS games is based on the fact that if you can't 'grind' out masteries by simply playing HoT content, then it's probably a more appropriate kind of game for you to play. Simply put, you don't have much tolerance if you can't earn masteries by just playing the game. If your mentality is that it's a grind, that's not a game problem.

    I mean, the other poster said it better than I have ever seen it put: It's only grind if you focus on what you want instead of what you are doing. There is so much fundamental good truth to that statement that I'm just going to put it out here again.

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    there needs something you can grind to keep you interested in the game.

    LOL, are you serious?

    Well, yeah I'm serious. How do you honestly think MMO developers keep you playing the game? Just hand you everything you want after the first run through? You need to give this some thinking before you come back and challenge the idea that the survival of this genre of game DEPENDS on having things people can grind in the games. Everyone grinds ... they just don't call it that until they get tired of doing it. Only THEN do people complain it's a grind. It's all relative ... I had guildmates complain that map completion was a grind ... so they left the game.

    As for the masteries in HoT ... if you simply play the game, you earn them. Is that grind? I would say that if playing the game is a problem ... well, that's not a game problem.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • You have returned after a long absence. It's not a grind but since maps are not as populated It could feel like it. I mean every single event meta has been dumbed down for you in hot and pof. Every grind to get currency is easier. You just need to learn when AB and TD metas and those are a ton of exp. Pof might be more challenging as those metas aren't ran as often but that progression is more of a mastery point grind and you should get to vabbi as soon as possible as those points are very easy to get. IDK man if I return to FFIV or ESO or wow I would expect a much harder time to catch up then here in GW2. It's one of the easiest games to return too but you missed 2 whole expansions so It's not gonna be a week and your all caught up. Sorry.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:
    I remember Guild Wars 2 being an living breathing game where you felt part of the game.
    Now that I return after a long absence and I start HoT I am immediatly met with "glider requirements" meaning
    I have to do quests thats are non critical and non storyline just to earn points to get to use gliders. This bodes very ill for the
    rest of the game , oh and I have a level 80 too with PoF and got the mount, but guess what, in order to go onwards got to get to
    level 3 of that raptor mount just to get on with the questing. When did the game go from being about the storyline and the rest
    being sidelines if you was interested to be a grindfest for "rep" with different things just to get onwards with a quest?
    Its nothing but time sinks, these "reputation grinds" that you got to get glider, mount, different level of mount etc.
    It does not affect the story anyway, and it it not shown in the story "Oh yeah, you have to be level 3 with flappety flapp over there
    in order to face the dragon"....really....

    These are a walk in the park. Wait till you try grinding for the hovering (not flying) Skyscale.

  • That doesn't make sense. If you play the story and through the content, there is ALSO no grind in HoT because you earn the masteries as you play

    what can I say, when I started over the game with my necromancer, I was not met with any grind, sure I had xp potions and food etc and leveled quite nicely.
    but other than that there was no grind to speak of.

    As for the other part, I don't mind playing the game, when there is progress, I do not call hunting worms through deserts or minotaurs or whatever beats doing the same quest over and over again specially meaningful, sure it maybe easy, but its not leading anywhere more than to earn reputation points. I had enough of grind in WoW and even in the latest patch what they did was lock everything behind daily quests, could not progress anything until met a certain level in the daily quests, this is no different. I would rather have a more difficult or less rewarding levelling and have something to strive towards rather than mindless questing doing same thing every day I log it, to be honest it gets boring and boring is not what I am paying for, im paying for being entertained. Sure if I wanted some special tool or profession or gear or whatever then I can understand a certain amount of grind, but to clear the main story, its nonsense putting it behind a timelock that the achievment grind is.

    also, its not just playing the game, raptor long jump require 2 more mastery points, and those mastery points can only be done by doing quests within the raptor area, are there any NEW quests, no, it is a repeat of quests done over and over again to earn the achievement points.

  • @Mil.3562 said:

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:
    I remember Guild Wars 2 being an living breathing game where you felt part of the game.
    Now that I return after a long absence and I start HoT I am immediatly met with "glider requirements" meaning
    I have to do quests thats are non critical and non storyline just to earn points to get to use gliders. This bodes very ill for the
    rest of the game , oh and I have a level 80 too with PoF and got the mount, but guess what, in order to go onwards got to get to
    level 3 of that raptor mount just to get on with the questing. When did the game go from being about the storyline and the rest
    being sidelines if you was interested to be a grindfest for "rep" with different things just to get onwards with a quest?
    Its nothing but time sinks, these "reputation grinds" that you got to get glider, mount, different level of mount etc.
    It does not affect the story anyway, and it it not shown in the story "Oh yeah, you have to be level 3 with flappety flapp over there
    in order to face the dragon"....really....

    These are a walk in the park. Wait till you try grinding for the hovering (not flying) Skyscale.

    I would say that is the day I switch games to a game thats not grindfest. if there are none, there is always Fallout 76, at least there when you grind you can build something of the material your grinding.

  • Definitely not a 'grindfest'
    I came back after 5-6 years as well and I know what you are going through with the expansions. You may think it tedious but they only ask for you to do that a few times in HoT and thats it. If you do a LFG and join a HP train or a meta train/taxi you will have that mastery point done in no time.
    It may be frustrating but I think you need to do it for the gliding mastery and again for mushroom bouncing and that will be it for HoT in terms of 'forced grind', and if grinding out exp for mastery points is not your thing in this game then unfortunately its not good news because the majority of the expansions will revolve around you getting exp and mastery points along with the story and it will not change because the majority is happy with how it is

  • @Jotunhammer.7029 said:
    there is always Fallout 76, at least there when you grind you can build something of the material your grinding.

    Ironic, so you will go back to playing an FPS.

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Masteries were simply ArenaNet's alternative to increasing the level cap. They're not asking for much, they're only expecting you to play a bit of the open world content. It's really no different from leveling in the core game, except you can't simply grind to the cap this time due to mastery points (which were the solution to that problem).

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:
    also, its not just playing the game, raptor long jump require 2 more mastery points, and those mastery points can only be done by doing quests within the raptor area, are there any NEW quests, no, it is a repeat of quests done over and over again to earn the achievement points.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/72hrg7/guide_to_all_40_pof_mastery_insights_sorted_by/

  • You have all 4 maps in HoT, and well as all 6 maps in Season 3? Why do you have to repeat the same events?
    And, if you don't have Seasons 2, 3 and 4, you aren't that interested in the main storyline.

  • @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    You have all 4 maps in HoT, and well as all 6 maps in Season 3? Why do you have to repeat the same events?
    And, if you don't have Seasons 2, 3 and 4, you aren't that interested in the main storyline.

    Just cause I did not play in those seasons does not mean I am not interested in the main story

  • Well, they are part of the 'main story'.
    Even without Living World Season maps, there are 4 maps in HoT to play in, as well as 5 maps in PoF.
    Again, no need to repeat the same event.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:

    That doesn't make sense. If you play the story and through the content, there is ALSO no grind in HoT because you earn the masteries as you play

    what can I say, when I started over the game with my necromancer, I was not met with any grind, sure I had xp potions and food etc and leveled quite nicely.
    but other than that there was no grind to speak of.

    What can you say? You can say you acknowledge that the grind for masteries isn't different than when you 'grinded' for levels, which you seem to have zero problem with. If leveling wasn't a grind for you, neither is getting masteries; it's the same approach for getting the XP; you simply play the game and you get the XP you need. IF anything, the limiting factor here isn't the 'grind' for the XP, it's getting the MP's.

    Like I said ... if the 'grind' in GW2 is too much for you to handle, you got FPS games because you aren't going to find many MMO's where the level of tolerance you are showing for grinding would be acceptable to you.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    August 2012

    Pretty much this.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    It's never been possible to focus entirely on the story and ignore the open-world stuff...at least not without using a work-around to gain the XP you'll miss. Even before they split the personal story into chapters, when you could attempt any step at any level if you did nothing else you'd quickly fall so far below the level requirement that it wasn't possible to complete it without help. Since they didn't raise the level cap when the expansions were released the masteries serve the same purpose.

    IMO it makes sense to do that if you're interested in the story, because those "non critical" side stories actually tie into the main story, helping to set the scene, introduce characters and progress events so everything will make a lot more sense if you do the story and the open-world events in the same area around the same time.

    Admittedly I can see how it would be frustrating if you just want to get the story finished as quickly as possible and you're interested in the details, but in that case I'm pretty sure there are numerous guides around on how to get the masteries trained as quickly as possible. (I seem to remember people recommended the Pale Reaver's event chain around Dry Step Mesas and Shrouded Ruins to train up gliding, but I'm not sure if things have changed since HoT was released.)

    I would rather spend gems etc on xp pots than to do grindfest to get to continue with the storyline. I hate grindfest, I hate being forced to run the hamsterwheel either for dungeons or for whatever achivement required for special flyers etc, it is the developers way of making you run around do nothing special that affects the storynothing. had it been like the isla of quel'thelas(sp?) in wow where you build the island from dailies etc it would make sense, but running around killing worms from the ground or minotaurs running amock, its making no sense. and it is detering me from the game itself

    Keep in mind that first and foremost GW2 is a game and oftentimes games have time sinks like what you are running into. Now whether or not that time sink is worthwhile or fun really is subjective per individual. Personally its not the worst thing in the world for me, it isn't a grind much less as it is just a bit of a chore.

    I wouldn't classify it as "grind" because, from my own personal experience, grind is what you get when you play games like Black Desert Online where at the current soft cap level (62/63) in that game it can take maybe...a few weeks of grinding the same mob rotations for hours every day which I am personally fine with. What you have to do in GW2 is not a grind, its a chore and nothing beyond that. You can blast through what you need in a relatively short amount of time. Its an MMORPG, not a pure RPG. The only MMORPG with meaningful, good and worthwhile story content that actually translates to actual content in the game that doesn't slow you down is FFXIV. You can level purely off the main story quests and be totally fine, don't really need to touch a sidequest unless you want t over level yourself for the content. Not so much with GW2 or many other MMORPGs, wasn't even like that at the start of GW2. They have level requirements for main story missions before you could move on if you weren't already at the proper level.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Disclaimer: I do not mind a bit of grind in an MMO. Seems part of the genre really. What I want is for that bit of grind to be disguised reasonably well.

    I disliked HoT. The maps annoy me and the fights are insufficiently exciting, mostly, to make up for the maps. But, even so, even disliking the maps, I didnt find earning masteries to be particularly grindy.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    It's horizontal progression, not grind, it's only grind in peoples minds...the rest is just fun and games.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    never? I mean, what are you grinding that you need?

    You see, Anet never said there would be no grind because obviously that's dumb; there needs something you can grind to keep you interested in the game. Anet was specifically talking about needing to grind to get access to content, either with gear grinds or unlocking content. So far, they have delivered.

    So let's be honest. The game never became a grind ... you're just finding things you want that require it. If you're going to define 'gilder masteries' as grinding, I guess you should stick with FPS games or something, because that's a pretty tame 'grind' that you can achieve simply by playing the game. I guess if you're not willing to play the game, then I can see where you apply that label to it.

    never became a grind? Ummm, I played chaper 1-8 without ANY grind in personal story. The moment I switch to HoT I am met with a grind.

    That doesn't make sense. If you play the story and through the content, there is ALSO no grind in HoT because you earn the masteries as you play ... JUST like you earn your regular levels as you go through the maps and your story. The suggestion to stick with FPS games is based on the fact that if you can't 'grind' out masteries by simply playing HoT content, then it's probably a more appropriate kind of game for you to play. Simply put, you don't have much tolerance if you can't earn masteries by just playing the game. If your mentality is that it's a grind, that's not a game problem.

    Game devs are fond of slapping "RPG elements" on to games these days. Even FPSs require unlocks

  • The answer to the question in the title is 2012, with the introduction of fractals, ascended gear, and agony resistance.

  • SexyMofo.8923SexyMofo.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    A couple years late to the party.

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:
    what can I say, when I started over the game with my necromancer, I was not met with any grind, sure I had xp potions and food etc and leveled quite nicely.
    but other than that there was no grind to speak of.

    Grab those xp potions and that food, and venture out into Verdant Brink. Gaining experience for Gliding rank 1 is no different than gaining experience for levels to unlock the next step of the personal story. You get xp through pretty much everything you do in game, including unfogging the map and exploring it's objectives (waypoints, points of interest, vistas ...)

    You can get around Verdant Brink without gliding or mushroom masteries (although those do open a lot of new ways to travel through the map), certainly enough to unlock the mastery for the next story step.

    If all else fails and you just can't bring yourself to explore the map and join in on events (no need to repeat them), then grab another character and start on the story with them. Unlike character levels, masteries are account wide, so several characters can contribute experience to the same mastery.

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:
    also, its not just playing the game, raptor long jump require 2 more mastery points, and those mastery points can only be done by doing quests within the raptor area, are there any NEW quests, no, it is a repeat of quests done over and over again to earn the achievement points.

    I think you are mixing up a few things here (which is not surprising, as the mastery system is different to most other games' progression systems and not quite intuitive to many). You need experience to fill mastery levels (the same as you needed experience to fill character levels pre 80), and you need mastery points to unlock a mastery once you've filled the experience bar. You do not need achievement points for any of this. The game does however use achievements to track a lot of objectives, including mastery points. Just view those achievements as your "available points" list.

    The early PoF masteries (up to raptor rank 3) are indeed a bit tight, though there are still more available than necessary. You do get several of them simply for playing the story, while others are attached to map objectives or specific "quests" (that are also tracked as achievements). None of the early ones require content repetition though, and since there are considerably more points available than necessary in any of the three mastery regions you can very well skip all of the repetitive ones if you don't like them. I know I didn't do them (unless on accident), and I've been maxed on masteries for a while.

    If you still feel uncomfortable with the system, try putting up a post in the players helping players section to get tips on what to do to advance your story and masteries, or even state your region and usual play times to find people to join you, show you how to get around, and even port you to mastery communes you wouldn't be able to reach yet to make things easier (there are several that require certain masteries to reach them, but you can easily get those masteries with the points available to you before).

  • @Bridget Morrigan.1752 said:
    The answer to the question in the title is 2012, with the introduction of fractals, ascended gear, and agony resistance.

    Pretty much what Bridget said. That's when it began.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    Since the first episode of LS3 when they introduced map currencies to buy achievements.

    Oh wait, earlier, when they had us grind exp for elite specializations instead of unlocking them with an enticing story.

    No..even earlier, with the legendary weapons and dungeons in the core game.

    Or even before that, when we had to grind money to buy the game

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • OP, you may find this helpful, as you seem confused on how it works:

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mastery
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mastery_point_unlocks

    Welcome return, and good luck.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    In HoT it did bother me and it hurt the story. We were supposed to be on a rather urgent rescue mission, right? On my first playthrough I felt like the Commander had very weird priorities and was sidetracked by absolutely everything, losing valuable time by playing around and making new friends.
    The good news is: That was not an issue anymore in later playthroughs. :) Once the masteries are unlocked, they stay unlocked. All your alts can go through the story at your pace.
    Also, in PoF I think they reduced the EXP requirement. Levelling masteries there felt more natural and happened more or less on the side while exploring the maps and doing a quest here and there.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Half the story in HOT is in the zones themselves. Skipping those non-critical areas and running from instance to instance, only gives you half the story. You only think that stuff is no critical, but it really does tell the story of what happened.

    When this game launched, several stories were above my level and I had to level to get high enough to actually survive in them. Not really sure how this is different. Also grind means doing the same thing over and over again. You can easily get all the masteries you need without ever repeating a single thing.

    Finally make sure you're using boosters when you play to level masteries faster. Food and utility can give you 25% XP on kills. Those stack with other stuff including guild buffs, celebration/birthday boosters, XP buffs if you have any. If this is what you call grind, I'm not sure what to tell you.

  • Thalimae.3406Thalimae.3406 Member ✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    I remember back in the day I was playing Aion and boy THAT was a grind. I never reached max level in that or even finished the story cause there's just so many "Kill 2000 monsters for a meagre reward" quests I'm willing to do. (And apparently it has gotten even worse since they went f2p) GW2 is a walk in the park compared to that so I don't understand the grindfest complaints.

    I mean, you gotta keep in mind that all the content in GW2 that people call grind was initially designed to be unlocked in a relaxed pace while you play the game and explore the maps and figure out how all the new stuff works. Especially the maps in HoT all have their own story and you're supposed to explore them all to get the full picture. Of course that doesn't work of you're rushing past all of this cause somehow you deemed it not essential to the story even though it's anything but. In other words you're only playing half of the story and then complain you don't get the full rewards for it immediately even though the rewards are designed with the idea that players play the full story.

  • yusayu.3629yusayu.3629 Member ✭✭✭

    What part of that is grinding? You don't really have to level masteries, I think for the story you need gliding 1 or 3, which is achieved by just experiencing HoT, doing the metas and just looking through some of the event chains. It's nice they're trying to get people to try out the events.

    None of that I'd consider grinding, you don't have to farm the same group of mobs or the same quest for days or weeks.

  • @sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:
    there is always Fallout 76, at least there when you grind you can build something of the material your grinding.

    Ironic, so you will go back to playing an FPS.

    do investigate what a FPS means, Fallout 76 is not a FPS, its MMO, unless of then you can call WoW a FPS as well...being that you can go into
    FPS mode and go around shooting around you.... there is much more to Fallout 76 than shooting everything...

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:

    That doesn't make sense. If you play the story and through the content, there is ALSO no grind in HoT because you earn the masteries as you play

    what can I say, when I started over the game with my necromancer, I was not met with any grind, sure I had xp potions and food etc and leveled quite nicely.
    but other than that there was no grind to speak of.

    What can you say? You can say you acknowledge that the grind for masteries isn't different than when you 'grinded' for levels, which you seem to have zero problem with. If leveling wasn't a grind for you, neither is getting masteries; it's the same approach for getting the XP; you simply play the game and you get the XP you need. IF anything, the limiting factor here isn't the 'grind' for the XP, it's getting the MP's.

    Like I said ... if the 'grind' in GW2 is too much for you to handle, you got FPS games because you aren't going to find many MMO's where the level of tolerance you are showing for grinding would be acceptable to you.

    1. I never, NEVER did the same quest over and over again as levelling, not even one time. So the point of the whole thing is I do not want to get caught in hamsterwheel doing same quests over and over again into mindnumbing boredom. When I levelled it was natural, it was not doing the same thing over and over again. I maybe did the repeatable quests once per quest, ONCE, not over and over again....
  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    It turns into a grindfest in the moment your mind changes from "let run a around and see what's happen" to "if I repeat this and only this, I get XYZ fastest".

    The good point about gw2 is still: you are not much faster, it's just your choice, if you prefer speed over fun.

    I remember very well when HoT came out: a lot of player grinded exp in Flame Zitadelle to have their Pact mastery as fast as possible. I preferred to have it later: I did map-exporation in Tyria (let some time pass in HoT maps to get most bugs fixed) with my revenant. :) and that was not really much slower.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't remember any situation where I am forced to repeat stuff over several days. Which one are you talking about?

  • @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:
    what can I say, when I started over the game with my necromancer, I was not met with any grind, sure I had xp potions and food etc and leveled quite nicely.
    but other than that there was no grind to speak of.

    Grab those xp potions and that food, and venture out into Verdant Brink. Gaining experience for Gliding rank 1 is no different than gaining experience for levels to unlock the next step of the personal story. You get xp through pretty much everything you do in game, including unfogging the map and exploring it's objectives (waypoints, points of interest, vistas ...)

    You can get around Verdant Brink without gliding or mushroom masteries (although those do open a lot of new ways to travel through the map), certainly enough to unlock the mastery for the next story step.

    If all else fails and you just can't bring yourself to explore the map and join in on events (no need to repeat them), then grab another character and start on the story with them. Unlike character levels, masteries are account wide, so several characters can contribute experience to the same mastery.

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:
    also, its not just playing the game, raptor long jump require 2 more mastery points, and those mastery points can only be done by doing quests within the raptor area, are there any NEW quests, no, it is a repeat of quests done over and over again to earn the achievement points.

    I think you are mixing up a few things here (which is not surprising, as the mastery system is different to most other games' progression systems and not quite intuitive to many). You need experience to fill mastery levels (the same as you needed experience to fill character levels pre 80), and you need mastery points to unlock a mastery once you've filled the experience bar. You do not need achievement points for any of this. The game does however use achievements to track a lot of objectives, including mastery points. Just view those achievements as your "available points" list.

    The early PoF masteries (up to raptor rank 3) are indeed a bit tight, though there are still more available than necessary. You do get several of them simply for playing the story, while others are attached to map objectives or specific "quests" (that are also tracked as achievements). None of the early ones require content repetition though, and since there are considerably more points available than necessary in any of the three mastery regions you can very well skip all of the repetitive ones if you don't like them. I know I didn't do them (unless on accident), and I've been maxed on masteries for a while.

    If you still feel uncomfortable with the system, try putting up a post in the players helping players section to get tips on what to do to advance your story and masteries, or even state your region and usual play times to find people to join you, show you how to get around, and even port you to mastery communes you wouldn't be able to reach yet to make things easier (there are several that require certain masteries to reach them, but you can easily get those masteries with the points available to you before).

    Thank you for explaining, however...in order to get 2 more mastery points, it says when I hover over the mastery points that I need to do quests etc in the area of the raptors. I done so, I dove every exploration point I could get my hands on, I even done some of the repeatable quests. The only thing that remains within the raptor area is to continue to do repeatable quests until I get the last 2 mastery points, because the storyline quest is over a sizable ravine that require the longer jump in raptors. So I am stuck doing that, which I detest, and honestly having being stuck there is causing me to play less because the moment I get into the game and I see I have to do same as I did yesterday, it gives me the "WoW chill" of having to do dailies ad infinitum and thats why I left WoW because they lock to much of the things behind "you got to get 3000 rep for your bodyguard in order to continue storyline". Thats not entertaining.

  • @Dayra.7405 said:
    I don't remember any situation where I am forced to repeat stuff over several days. Which one are you talking about?

    Raptor area where you get to get to level 3 raptore to earn the long jump, just to get to the other side of the ravine. You say you got the 3 points without grinding. How?
    I done every quests, every hero challenge, every point of interest and yet, I am 30% into second achievment and I need to get to third.

  • @yusayu.3629 said:
    What part of that is grinding? You don't really have to level masteries, I think for the story you need gliding 1 or 3, which is achieved by just experiencing HoT, doing the metas and just looking through some of the event chains. It's nice they're trying to get people to try out the events.

    None of that I'd consider grinding, you don't have to farm the same group of mobs or the same quest for days or weeks.

    Alright so many asks where is the grind.
    Path of Fire part 4. Sacrifice, you have to get to the crystals. One crystal is beyond a ravine, you have to get raptor long jump in order to get there
    and that requires level 3 in raptors. I done all the map, done all points of interest, but still I am lacking 1 1/2 level to get to achievement 3, so unless
    there is something I missed, which is unlikely cause I run around the map about as many times as I can remember it by heart, or there needs to be
    done repeatable quests... thats the simple part of that.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    Yes. HoT really has a getting started problem that can only be pushed through quickly if you utilize adventures (and liking them is required to grind them) and knowing that Auric Basin exists to avoid the pitfalls everywhere. Go there to worry about grinding Masteries instead of the constant threat of death from a single misstep.

    Look up the necessary masteries you need to complete the HoT expansion story so you can get into Living World 3. Each chapter has dailies boxes and events that contribute to HoT Mastery. It will greatly help get the rest of the Masteries as painless as possible over time.

    PoF has Living World 4 dailies, but PoF masteries aren't nearly as tough as HoT to complete.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    I don't remember any situation where I am forced to repeat stuff over several days. Which one are you talking about?

    Raptor area where you get to get to level 3 raptore to earn the long jump, just to get to the other side of the ravine. You say you got the 3 points without grinding. How?
    I done every quests, every hero challenge, every point of interest and yet, I am 30% into second achievment and I need to get to third.

    Hm, I remember that it was difficult to get enough Mastery Points to get Lvl 3 Raptor on the first map, but MPs cannot be grinded, they are once per account. I don't remember that I had an EXP problem, maybe because I started to do PoF with several chars to get Hero Points (to get their new elite) for all of them.

    Solution: You can pass to the other PoF (or LS4) maps and do stuff there. Or nowadays you can ask in map-chat for a friendly Mesmer with all mounts who can easily give you access to MP's you cannot reach with your current mounts.

  • Naga.9623Naga.9623 Member
    edited August 27, 2019

    Follow this video guide by dulfy to get mastery point needed to unlock them.

    Dulfy have guides for the other pof maps too. Like other have mentioned, do various event and hearts on map to fill up your mastery level. Then follow the video guide to get the necessary mastery points to unlock mastery you want.
    It's the same thing with hot mastery too.
    Another good YouTube guide to follow is aiyinmaiden.

    p/s: simply playing the story and doing some achievement will get you some mastery points too, good luck :)

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jotunhammer.7029 said:

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    I don't remember any situation where I am forced to repeat stuff over several days. Which one are you talking about?

    Raptor area where you get to get to level 3 raptore to earn the long jump, just to get to the other side of the ravine. You say you got the 3 points without grinding. How?
    I done every quests, every hero challenge, every point of interest and yet, I am 30% into second achievment and I need to get to third.

    iirc I followed the story line and got the three mastery points I needed for the raptor long jump. Then it was just a matter of getting the experience points to use them, which didn't take very long doing OW quests and bounties and whatnot.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

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