Am I the only one who is afraid the dragon storyline will just end with Aurene replacing 6 other? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Am I the only one who is afraid the dragon storyline will just end with Aurene replacing 6 other?

I really think this would be a boring and bad ending. It would be again just luck that our dragon is the ultimate plot device(a magical sponge which is better sponge than all other 6 elder dragons while not becoming corrupted).

I think the storyline right now is pointing towards great mistakes we have made killing the dragons and destroying the balance between them(and I think it's a really nice plot). But if all of this is just to be solved by Aurene eating magic of all other dragons well that would be really disappointing.
I really think the story with replacing each elder dragon is much more intriguing(what beings will replace them, will we find other dragons? kunavang, other ED children, gods, spirits, bring back titans, or maybe don't replace some of them, etc.) and can setup many more future surprises for the universe(replacing dragon with other being which isn't "good" because we have to do it, like deal with Joko in gw1).

I am afraid of this because with the last magazine about Icebrood saga and war eternal there are some suggestion this will happen(prismatic dragon, Kralkatorrik talk with Aurene).

<1

Comments

  • Everyone says something like "we can't kill more dragons because they're lifeforce of Tyria blah, blah, blah, it would destroy everything", and killing them should... well, destroy Tyria. We killed Kralk only because Aurene could replace him as an Elder Dragon, so I think that was just safe and necessary to save Tyria, the mists or whole reality from him.
    Kralk was corrupted by magic he ate. He said all that magic tormented him. Can Aurene absorb magic from every Elder Dragon and not get crazy? If not, why is she immune to this corruption?

    Ending everything like "Kill them all because Aurene can replace them" sounds boring and... predictable. We don't want the story to be like that. I know the story needs action, real action like fight Jormag, but... another happy end is too much. Some episodes in LS4 were really nice, like ep5. We can't just succed everywhere. I'm expecting a failure or other solution than "kill".

    I don't like sand. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Prob is, the narrative team have said that GW2 is "Aurene's Story". So it wouldn't surprise me if they do, even if it is implied that we need multiple replacements

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    One Dragon to rule them all, One Commander to find them,
    One Commander to bring them all and in the Dragon bind them.

    Bring it! =)

    I am not trying to attack or anything but just out of curiosity. How that main plotline resolution can be interesting?

    It would be a really obvious one without twists and you could easily predict much before the story ends(it's a little bit like knowing the ending in the middle of a movie).
    It really throws away all set ups of mistakes and future destruction because of our actions.(All Joko dialogue(which was great btw.) would be thrown out of a window, all theme of destruction caused by killing dragons).
    It would be a little bit like, well, a story for children where after doing something really stupid nothing really happens because plot must have a happy ending.

    It would be a repeat of Mordremoth plot where we were going after him without and real plan and just when we met him some character(Traeharne if I remember correctly) told us his weakens which for our current situation was perfect(just standing before an allay directly connected to his mind). Going without any plan at random(especially if playing with giant forces(like dragons, gods etc.) and always being unrealistically lucky(because some plot device shows just when we need it) isn't good writing.

  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭✭

    I have loved the story but I want stories other than dragons. So I hope they wrap it up soon one way or the other.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Prob is, the narrative team have said that GW2 is "Aurene's Story". So it wouldn't surprise me if they do, even if it is implied that we need multiple replacements

    I’d rather they keep it about her by making her the guide to the new dragons, and she can potentially supply information on where to find some

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    "Yes. You are the only one. You are alone. Afraid. Weak. But... if you join with us, join the Dragon, you will never be alone and weak again." - Jormag

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • I mean i do not know the direction in which they are taking this story but i agree that "One dragon to rule them all" is dull as dull.. I would prefer we either some how learn to purify the remaining 3 or find/hatch replacements and raise them to ed stats maybe both.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    For a while now… Every time the story reminds you "do not kill one we have no solution". And what do we do ? Forget about it and every episode find a strategy to kill one. Every time I talk about it to someone in my guilds they say "oh but we have Aurene". Really ????!!! This 6 years old dragon is going to fix Killing 3 elder dragons ? So when we had visions of her failing, when npc kept saying "kralk might be too strong" and the vision became real, I was relieved. Maybe we would find a way to live in peace with the elder dragons. After all they are also supposed to be really smart. Then everybody starts talking about a resurrection and it happened! That was so bad :astonished: . At least the ending was great. I got what I wanted about elder dragons.
    But right now, Aurene is still the definition of deus ex machina.

  • to be precise she is 3 or 3.5 years old, she hatched in 1329 i believe and ascended to Elder status in 1332. In a comedic kinda way phenomenal world rendering powers in the palms of a toddler.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    I love Aurene and her story so far (minus the decision to kill her and immediately res her), but yeah... I would not find this resolution ideal. It would feel too convenient, but then again they have always purported Aurene as "special." She is "the prince that was promised," so to speak. So I wouldn't be surprised if things shook out this way. In the end, I would prefer to kill/replace all the EDs on a 1:1 ratio, or find a way to make peace with them somehow (at least assure their sleep will last for a very, very long time). I think the idea of a "prismatic dragon" is cool, and I enjoy the idea that she could better/more efficiently house and harness multiple kinds of magics, but I'm not as excited to see her become the solution to every big problem.

    I am interested by the notion Jormag might be attempting to change the nature of the All, but... that seems about as volatile as saying, "let's kill another elder dragon without a means to replace it!"

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    Prob is, the narrative team have said that GW2 is "Aurene's Story". So it wouldn't surprise me if they do, even if it is implied that we need multiple replacements

    I kinda interpreted it as "the GW2 story as of late is Aurene's story" e.g., Season 3 to Season 4 is "Aurene's story". Similar to how the Personal Story is the Commander's rise, and Season 1 to Heart of Thorns is about the origins of the sylvari.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sznurek.8791 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    One Dragon to rule them all, One Commander to find them,
    One Commander to bring them all and in the Dragon bind them.

    Bring it! =)

    I am not trying to attack or anything but just out of curiosity. How that main plotline resolution can be interesting?

    It would be a really obvious one without twists and you could easily predict much before the story ends(it's a little bit like knowing the ending in the middle of a movie).
    It really throws away all set ups of mistakes and future destruction because of our actions.(All Joko dialogue(which was great btw.) would be thrown out of a window, all theme of destruction caused by killing dragons).
    It would be a little bit like, well, a story for children where after doing something really stupid nothing really happens because plot must have a happy ending.

    It would be a repeat of Mordremoth plot where we were going after him without and real plan and just when we met him some character(Traeharne if I remember correctly) told us his weakens which for our current situation was perfect(just standing before an allay directly connected to his mind). Going without any plan at random(especially if playing with giant forces(like dragons, gods etc.) and always being unrealistically lucky(because some plot device shows just when we need it) isn't good writing.

    I think you missed the joke friend. Here:

    Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
    Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
    Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
    One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
    One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

  • Changing the nature or structure of the All may be a volatile plan but it may also be necessary. There is an indelible link between mind and magic. There are multiple examples of minds being dominated or corrupted by magic. The All is held together by massive magical minds that are dominated or corrupted by magic. I don't care if the writers spin a tale of an incorruptible mind, the magi-physics doesn't work. Aurene's mind is incorruptible and can withstand the dominance of magic because we played hide and go seek with her? They have offered too many instances of minds giving up some share of free will to magic. What are the human gods but beings who have given up some of their will to the will of magical domains. Even if we stretched the magi-physics to provide Aurene, can we expect 5 more incorruptible minds to appear? What happens to Aurene's incorruptible mind after eons of watching mortals fight each other, or watching all her companions die? The plan to stop the Elder Dragon doesn't have to perfect, I just hope it doesn't depend on soft magic wand waving. The writers have made magi-cosmology central to their story without ever delivering adequately hard rules for magic. Imo, it is time to deliver those rules.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • I think you missed the joke friend. Here:

    Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
    Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
    Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
    One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
    One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

    Well I got the reference but I didn't catch that your reaction was sarcastic.
    Sorry for that. It's sometimes hard to get the emotions behind the post on text messages.

  • I personally would love to see the Pale Tree become something similar to Aurene. She is a dragon champion after all. Maybe the tree can absorb some magic that Aurene gives her or something. Plus, it'd be a good way to show progress being made with her healing. Anyways, random thought

  • As written by many above, if that is the end they're going for, then it's predictable and boring - Aurene is boring. I need a good story, then I will rather do something else with my time.

    Heck, let Aurene sacrifice herself and to consume/get rid of all Elder Dragons thus releasing all the magic back into the world and its races.

    Make a twist and let the dragons be represented by humanoid forms who will be cunning and scheming to give us more of a tangible "human" foe rather than a force of nature hellbent on destruction and just tossing its armies at you.

    Vàsher (Grd), Bondsmith Yharnam (Eng), Mistress Glaive (War), Hasla the Huntress (Rng), Seaguard Hala (Mes) + The Wintertalon warband
    Northerner @ Dragon Season (DS) | Winter's Talon Reborn (WT)
    Seafarer's Rest (SFR) since launch!

  • This is quite a stretch, i could possible see (depending on where they take the story) a world where the remaining 5 Elder Dragons are replaced with Dragons of varying breeds & types. Aurene being the ambassador of the Dragons to Mortals and a threat from beyond the mists appear. You could say this enemy would be called "Outsiders" and the 6 Dragons Roles are pillars or Guardians of the realm. I also have a feeling that the whole Kralk went crazy due to magic overdose is a misdirection. One theory i have is something got into the magical waters of this realm and infected the 6 elder dragons and turned them into the corrupted monsters we have seen. i do see some potential for good story telling especially with the Elder dragons being more distinguishable. We shall see the direction they decide to take the story, i know they are trying to get people super excited but i will wait and see how they do on ep 0.

  • Regh.8649Regh.8649 Member ✭✭✭

    "Everyone is afraid sibling. You awake to a world of fear. These times of change are so... unsettling."

    Formula for success: Rise early, work hard, strike oil.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trise.2865 said:
    "Yes. You are the only one. You are alone. Afraid. Weak. But... if you join with us, join the Dragon, you will never be alone and weak again." - Jormag

    Paging Eric Hoffer....

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    I am hoping/predicting that the plot will move towards trading the "Tyria that is" for "the Tyria that could be." Jormag will offer us information about the nature of the All and how Elder Dragons maintain the integrity of the All. He

    She.

    will try to get us to help him change the very structure of the All or how it is maintained and then try to take control of the All. Perhaps he will offer more reliable access to the the after life. More reliable than dying.

    I, too, am uncertain whether we will actually fight another Elder Dragon. The writers might hold something different for us. In any case, I agree it would be the most forseeable option if Aurene was to replace the remaining Elder Dragons as well. Let's wait and see what Season 5 is going to bring to the table.

  • @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    I am hoping/predicting that the plot will move towards trading the "Tyria that is" for "the Tyria that could be." Jormag will offer us information about the nature of the All and how Elder Dragons maintain the integrity of the All. He

    She.

    will try to get us to help him change the very structure of the All or how it is maintained and then try to take control of the All. Perhaps he will offer more reliable access to the the after life. More reliable than dying.

    I, too, am uncertain whether we will actually fight another Elder Dragon. The writers might hold something different for us. In any case, I agree it would be the most forseeable option if Aurene was to replace the remaining Elder Dragons as well. Let's wait and see what Season 5 is going to bring to the table.

    Do we know Jormag's gender? Perhaps 'they' would be more appropriate.

    So resolve the threat posed by 6 too big to fail dragons with one too big to fail dragon. Imo, that increases the risk to Tyria. How cute and nice does Aurene have to be to change Tyrian magi-physics? Can she or any being channel and balance all the conflicting and insistent domains without changing? The studio may tell us she is cute and nice enough but it requires trivializing their magi-physics. I would prefer Aurene confront us and Glint's plan with her inability to remain cute and nice enough for all time. I want Aurene to demand we help her avoid being imprisoned by fate.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • @Psientist.6437 said:
    Do we know Jormag's gender? Perhaps 'they' would be more appropriate.

    Yes. "Non-binary," to use modern terminology. Which is the case for all Elder Dragons, technically, and has been since 2010. Though Kralkatorrik is often associated with male pronouns, Kralk is the only Elder Dragon done so, and is technically not strictly male.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The question is - do we have to kill / replace all the Elder Dragons?
    That’s boring by itself.

  • Hi Sznurek.8791! I'm in full agreement with you. Simply having Aurene replace all of the Elder Dragons is boring. However, the big question is whether she even can and why six Elder Dragons emerged in the first place? Look at all of the examples of paradigms embracing the idea of six, distinct colors, elements, threads, all of which suggest that separating, rather than combining, magic is the safest way to practice it. I think that something is coming for the Commander. Maybe Aurene turns on us when the growing pains of assuming the mantle of Elder Dragon at such a young age cause her to viciously and rabidly destroy anything and everything that moves. Maybe something else? I don't think that Aurene is the final answer, just another piece of the puzzle.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just give my pc all the elder dragon magics, i swear i wont do anything bad with it :^)

  • Does anyone have an idea about why a dragon needs a mortal to help share the load? I think Konig referred to this detail and it is fascinating to think that Glint would teach Aurene to share power with mortals, whereas Elder Dragons hate mortals. If mortals help Elder Dragons, you'd think that a long-standing hatred between the two doesn't make any sense, right?

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2019

    I'm hoping the remaining Dragons become aware that we cannot kill them without destroying the world, it would certainly be a far more interesting story if we were forced to constantly interfere with the dragons but were never able to actually kill them.. where as they can kill freely.

    Will be interesting to see what alternate solutions we can find for dealing with them.. or what beings we could use to succeed them.
    I'm very much still hoping that the Canthan dragons Kuunavang and Albax will be able to share the power of one Elder Dragon (Sea Dragon) and become as pair a single Elder Dragon.
    Two individual dragons filling the role of one single Elder Dragon and sharing the power and the burden.
    That would definitely be a nice twist on the idea of replacing them with an equally powerful being and I really like the concept of an Elder Dragon being more than one super powerful being with an army of slaves.

  • @Teratus.2859 said:
    I'm hoping the remaining Dragons become aware that we cannot kill them without destroying the world, it would certainly be a far more interesting story if we were forced to constantly interfere with the dragons but were never able to actually kill them.. where as they can kill freely.

    Will be interesting to see what alternate solutions we can find for dealing with them.. or what beings we could use to succeed them.
    I'm very much still hoping that the Canthan dragons Kuunavang and Albax will be able to share the power of one Elder Dragon (Sea Dragon) and become as pair a single Elder Dragon.
    Two individual dragons filling the role of one single Elder Dragon and sharing the power and the burden.
    That would definitely be a nice twist on the idea of replacing them with an equally powerful being.

    Two dragons replacing an Elder is certainly an interesting idea.

    My thoughts on this are as follows: In Edge of Destiny Snaff appears to represent an ordered mind, whereas Kralkatorrik represents a chaotic mind. Is it possible that mortals represent the "Mind" of magic and dragons represent it's "Heart"? Is that the reason behind the constant references to hearts, minds, etc in the story? Maybe solving all of this is about aligning these two in some fashion?

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I'm hoping the remaining Dragons become aware that we cannot kill them without destroying the world, it would certainly be a far more interesting story if we were forced to constantly interfere with the dragons but were never able to actually kill them.. where as they can kill freely.

    Will be interesting to see what alternate solutions we can find for dealing with them.. or what beings we could use to succeed them.
    I'm very much still hoping that the Canthan dragons Kuunavang and Albax will be able to share the power of one Elder Dragon (Sea Dragon) and become as pair a single Elder Dragon.
    Two individual dragons filling the role of one single Elder Dragon and sharing the power and the burden.
    That would definitely be a nice twist on the idea of replacing them with an equally powerful being.

    Two dragons replacing an Elder is certainly an interesting idea.

    My thoughts on this are as follows: In Edge of Destiny Snaff appears to represent an ordered mind, whereas Kralkatorrik represents a chaotic mind. Is it possible that mortals represent the "Mind" of magic and dragons represent it's "Heart"? Is that the reason behind the constant references to hearts, minds, etc in the story? Maybe solving all of this is about aligning these two in some fashion?

    That's something to think about for sure.

  • @Taygus.4571 said:
    I really don't want to kill yet another elder dragon. It's too predictable, too boring.

    I hate being wrong, but maybe player speculation is right. Maybe the Ed's want to be killed? Maybe they aren't truly dead, per se, but are testing mortals somehow and will reveal themselves later.

  • thepenmonster.3621thepenmonster.3621 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2019

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    I wish I knew I had a signature so I could be upset about not seeing it.

  • @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Aurene Aurene Dragon Full of Everything
    Aurene Aurene Can do Anything
    Rise up More powerful than we can possibly imagine
    Take Flight Spread the Brand

    yeah, with this song GW2's story shall end :D

    The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

    H. P. Lovecraft

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    She has immortality magic :) Can we not use term "joko's magic" anymore - it sounds pathetic XD

    The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

    H. P. Lovecraft

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭
    edited October 26, 2019

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    She has immortality magic :) Can we not use term "joko's magic" anymore - it sounds pathetic XD

    Sure. Kralkatorrik was - or might be is - the Elder Dragon of Time. LS4 is strewn with references to time and events torn out of time, or rather reordered in correct chronology by Kralk. (Remember some timelines are ley-lines.) So it makes sense that Kralk's granddaughter would consume an entity who 1) appears to live forever and 2) remembers his past lives.

  • @Arden.7480 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    She has immortality magic :) Can we not use term "joko's magic" anymore - it sounds pathetic XD

    Technically it's "lich magic". Or to be more precise, "soul binding magic".

    How she has it still makes no sense given that Elder Dragons are not capable of using any form of magic they consume, only the magic of beings on cosmic scales, and Joko was no cosmic being like gods and Elder Dragons.

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    She has immortality magic :) Can we not use term "joko's magic" anymore - it sounds pathetic XD

    Sure. Kralkatorrik was - or might be is - the Elder Dragon of Time. LS4 is strewn with references to time and events torn out of time, or rather reordered in correct chronology by Kralk. (Remember some timelines are ley-lines.) So it makes sense that Kralk's granddaughter would consume an entity who 1) appears to live forever and 2) remembers his past lives.

    You're referring to the Mists merging with Tyria. This has nothing to do with Kralkatorrik's magic. Nor does Aurene "remember his past lives".

    Kralkatorrik is the Elder Dragon of Crystal and Fury. Not time. The whole prophecy thing likely comes from the crystal side of things, an allusion to foresight via crystal balls, or how people would use crystals to divine truths and locations throughout history.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    She has immortality magic :) Can we not use term "joko's magic" anymore - it sounds pathetic XD

    Technically it's "lich magic". Or to be more precise, "soul binding magic".

    How she has it still makes no sense given that Elder Dragons are not capable of using any form of magic they consume, only the magic of beings on cosmic scales, and Joko was no cosmic being like gods and Elder Dragons.

    Doesn't that imply there is more to Joko than we realised? The dude was around before Nightfall. It's possible he has divine magic.
    I mean he can even be channeled as one would Balthazar.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    She has immortality magic :) Can we not use term "joko's magic" anymore - it sounds pathetic XD

    Technically it's "lich magic". Or to be more precise, "soul binding magic".

    How she has it still makes no sense given that Elder Dragons are not capable of using any form of magic they consume, only the magic of beings on cosmic scales, and Joko was no cosmic being like gods and Elder Dragons.

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    She has immortality magic :) Can we not use term "joko's magic" anymore - it sounds pathetic XD

    Sure. Kralkatorrik was - or might be is - the Elder Dragon of Time. LS4 is strewn with references to time and events torn out of time, or rather reordered in correct chronology by Kralk. (Remember some timelines are ley-lines.) So it makes sense that Kralk's granddaughter would consume an entity who 1) appears to live forever and 2) remembers his past lives.

    You're referring to the Mists merging with Tyria. This has nothing to do with Kralkatorrik's magic. Nor does Aurene "remember his past lives".

    Kralkatorrik is the Elder Dragon of Crystal and Fury. Not time. The whole prophecy thing likely comes from the crystal side of things, an allusion to foresight via crystal balls, or how people would use crystals to divine truths and locations throughout history.

    You see, Konig, this is why I don't like airing my opinions on this forum. You're a pessimist. I'll stick to my side of the sandpit. You stick to yours.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2019

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    She has immortality magic :) Can we not use term "joko's magic" anymore - it sounds pathetic XD

    Technically it's "lich magic". Or to be more precise, "soul binding magic".

    How she has it still makes no sense given that Elder Dragons are not capable of using any form of magic they consume, only the magic of beings on cosmic scales, and Joko was no cosmic being like gods and Elder Dragons.

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    She has immortality magic :) Can we not use term "joko's magic" anymore - it sounds pathetic XD

    Sure. Kralkatorrik was - or might be is - the Elder Dragon of Time. LS4 is strewn with references to time and events torn out of time, or rather reordered in correct chronology by Kralk. (Remember some timelines are ley-lines.) So it makes sense that Kralk's granddaughter would consume an entity who 1) appears to live forever and 2) remembers his past lives.

    You're referring to the Mists merging with Tyria. This has nothing to do with Kralkatorrik's magic. Nor does Aurene "remember his past lives".

    Kralkatorrik is the Elder Dragon of Crystal and Fury. Not time. The whole prophecy thing likely comes from the crystal side of things, an allusion to foresight via crystal balls, or how people would use crystals to divine truths and locations throughout history.

    You see, Konig, this is why I don't like airing my opinions on this forum. You're a pessimist. I'll stick to my side of the sandpit. You stick to yours.

    Or instead of that. I will point out we have been explicitly told the domains.

    Calling something an "Elder of Dragon of x" is wrong unless x is on this list.

    The current pantheon is
    1. Ice
    2. Persuasion
    3. Fire
    4. Conflagration
    5. Death
    6. Shadow
    7. Crystal
    8. Fury
    9. Plants
    10. Mind
    11. Light which is a super category containing Crystal/Fury with some magic from all other domains as a result of an Elder Dragon dying or having its magic stolen)

    Time is not on this list. Neither is War. If you want to claim time as a sub or super category that is fine. But Anet has not.

  • @Stephen.6312 said:
    You see, Konig, this is why I don't like airing my opinions on this forum. You're a pessimist. I'll stick to my side of the sandpit. You stick to yours.

    Nothing I said was pessimistic but okay, you go and be overly sensitive to people disagreeing with you or clarifying something you missed.

    It's a fact that Kralkatorrik isn't an Elder Dragon of Time, because we were given his canonical domains recently, and they are Crystal and Fury. Like or dislike the revelation, that revelation is canon. I know I dislike some canon (and voice such dislike when I feel it doesn't make logical sense), but don't complain that others tell you that your theories breaks established canon lore.

    If you're more interested in breaking canon with stories, then you're more than welcome to write your fan-fiction, but either denote it as such, or use the fan fiction forum.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • @Stephen.6312 said:
    Why did Aurene have to die?

    For a cliffhanger that worked like gangbusters.

    Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there?

    They seem to hate a lot of things. I think it's because they're all old men and they want all these mesmers to get off their damned lawns.

    I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    If Joko didn't end up dragon chow he probably would have told the Commander everything in a great villain monologue while he had us on the rack.

    I wish I knew I had a signature so I could be upset about not seeing it.

  • sigh They had the tools in Herald Shield 4 to make Aurene's resurrection not be as cheap... Crystal Hibernation... For goodness' sake her momma used it in a bonus mission in GW1! Otherwise... well she would have died a long time ago...

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    I think people have misinterpreted the storyline of LS4.

    Aurene has not replaced Zhaitan and Mordremoth, she only replaced Kralkatorrik (which was her destiny from before she was even born) and dealt with some of Balthazar and Joko's magic. The world is still unstable and we still have to find solutions to the existing damage we did before fighting Kralkatorrik, but for the moment she's at least stopped the development of any more god-dragons that can eat all of reality.

    This was like, the whole point of the Human Gods' storyline and why they had to leave Tyria instead of waging war.

    The reason things aren't so bad right now is because Jormag and Primordus went to sleep, but when they awaken they'll still have Zhaitan and Mordremoth's powers just like Kralkatorrik did, just no world-hopping or other abilities he got from Balthazar at Kodash Bazaar, because their magic returned to the ley lines whereas Balthazar's magic was absorbed directly by Aurene and Kralkatorrik.

    Just go back and play PoF again and all of this is revealed in Vlast's writings, the Exalted city, etc. The need to replace the dragons with a one to one ratio is the whole reason that both Aurene and Gleam (Vlast) were being raised only a few hundred years apart.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay (formerly Jade Quarry) | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Terakura/Spellbreaker | ♀♥♀

  • @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Aurene has not replaced Zhaitan and Mordremoth,

    This has actually gone unanswered at the moment. Neither confirmed nor denied.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    she only replaced Kralkatorrik (which was her destiny from before she was even born)

    Not accurate. Originally, the plan was for Glint to replace Kralkatorrik. Aurene replaced Kralkatorrik because Glint and Vlast died - she was the third (and last) card to use against Kralkatorrik.

    Given the locations of the nursery cities, Vlast was originally meant to replace Zhaitan, and Aurene Mordremoth. Though that's more speculation, but the original plan for "Glint's Legacy" was to have her and her children replace all six Elder Dragons (sadly not enough eggs survived, and then Glint and Vlast died too).

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    for the moment she's at least stopped the development of any more god-dragons that can eat all of reality.

    In the Narrative Q&A back in August, the devs heavily hinted that the other Elder Dragons might have gotten some of Balthazar's magic too, just not as much as Kralkatorrik. So the "development of any more god-dragons" isn't entirely stopped (if you can call them "god-dragons" since Balthazar was only a former god, thus a demigod at best).

    Just go back and play PoF again and all of this is revealed in Vlast's writings, the Exalted city, etc. The need to replace the dragons with a one to one ratio is the whole reason that both Aurene and Gleam (Vlast) were being raised only a few hundred years apart.

    The point of the concern is the worry that ArenaNet will retcon that in favor of just making Aurene the "one true Elder Dragon". A lot of the concern for this comes from Aurene's new titles - the Prismatic Elder Dragon, or the Elder Dragon of Light. Magic was associated with light, and how all magical types combined is like white light. The idea of a "one true prismatic Elder Dragon" was a long, old fan theory of an Elder Dragon with the abilities of all six Elder Dragons - this theory predates the revelation in Flashpoint that there must be four living Elder Dragons for Thyria to survive, so it wouldn't work with current lore. But because of these two things, and how "magic is not in conflict" within Aurene, some people are a bit worried that they're retconning the lore of S3/PoF and going to go with making Aurene a true "Prismatic Elder Dragon".

    So far, the magazine's nicknames is really the only suggestion for this outcome, but imo it's a legitimate concern given how often ArenaNet retcons things for the worse.

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    All these squares make a circle.

  • Kossage.9072Kossage.9072 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    The reason things aren't so bad right now is because Jormag and Primordus went to sleep, but when they awaken they'll still have Zhaitan and Mordremoth's powers just like Kralkatorrik did, just no world-hopping or other abilities he got from Balthazar at Kodash Bazaar, because their magic returned to the ley lines whereas Balthazar's magic was absorbed directly by Aurene and Kralkatorrik.

    Just go back and play PoF again and all of this is revealed in Vlast's writings, the Exalted city, etc. The need to replace the dragons with a one to one ratio is the whole reason that both Aurene and Gleam (Vlast) were being raised only a few hundred years apart.

    The interesting thing to think about is if Glint and the Forgotten ever had more candidates in mind for the Legacy project. Even if Glint's plans had succeeded beyond wildest expectations, we'd still have at best three benevolent Elder Dragon replacements (likely Kralkatorrik, Zhaitan, and Mordremoth based on the placements of Glint and the scion nursery cities) while three problematic Elder Dragons (likely Jormag, Primordus and the deep sea dragon) remained to cause chaos. It's fun to think about if Glint was willing to gamble with magical balance by guiding the races to create the Pact with her and her to-be-ascended scions' help and take on the three Elder Dragons one by one or if they found another workaround to the problem as a direct dragon vs. dragon conflict (even if it was three on one) could cause unforeseen consequences.

    As for what happened with Kralkatorrik's magic, as well as Balthazar's, in the Battles of Kodash Bazaar and Dragonfall, we had these fascinating and foreboding statements from narrative director Tom Abernathy in the forums' lengthy Lore Q&A thread:

    Q: Aurene absorbed the power of Kralkatorrik, did some of his magic escape and reached other remaining dragons too or it's solely hers now? (we know that when a dragon dies, his magic gets absorbed by other dragons in a distance)
    Tom Abernathy: Good question. Highly relevant. Strong chance it will get addressed.

    Q: Balthazar playing humans got relatively little development in PoF despite the fact you'd think they'd probably have the most interactions given the expansion. Will we ever get to see where Balthazars divine energy went? or is that plot thread unlikely to be resolved in Guild Wars 2?
    Tom Abernathy: Balthazar’s divine energy—assuming you mean his magic—went into Aurene, Kralkatorrik, and, presumably, every other Elder Dragon on Tyria. And yeah, that probably matters enough that it will come up again at some point.

    While Tom slightly misunderstood the player who was asking about Balthazar's original divine energy which the other gods had stripped from him between GW1 and PoF (leaving the depowered Balthazar chained in the Mists with no clues given about the ultimate fate of his taken divinity beyond some slight nods in Kormir's speech and in Requiem: Zafirah if a new god of war has risen to take his place in the pantheon), the answer nevertheless suggests that Aurene and Kralkatorrik weren't able to absorb all of Balthazar's magic which is also supported by unbound magic from Season 3 turning into volatile magic in Season 4.

    This means that at least some of that "divine" energy spread into the environment after the Battle of Kodash Bazaar, causing more crazed bounties to emerge and presumably empowering the other Elder Dragons despite the distance. Assuming that we go with the theory suggested by Taimi in Season 3 regarding distance playing a big part in how much ambient, released magic an Elder Dragon can absorb (compare the number of new minions of Primordus to one known new minion of Jormag), some Elder Dragons would have gotten a bigger slice of this magic pie than the others. Based on proximity, Primordus may have gotten the lion's share of this magic by being the closest to Elona with Jormag likely getting the second place and deep sea dragon being the farthest and thus receiving the least magic (as far as we know).

    By the time Kralk himself was slain at Dragonfall, there's yet another suggestion in Tom's reply that Aurene may not have been able to absorb all of his magic despite taking it in at ground zero. Perhaps this was because Aurene was still relatively juvenile in size and experience and snacking on Kralk's magic would be a bigger undertaking than taking on Joko.

    If Jormag has received enough magic from both Balthazar and Kralkatorrik (as well as some additional Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic given Kralkatorrik's power boost, and potentially even Primordus magic depending on how that magic had changed when Balthazar took some of it into himself in Season 3 as we did not see him using any Elder Dragon magic during PoF), the Ice Dragon and some of its champions may possess any combination of the following magics now (depending on the amount of magic absorbed, and the distance between them and the death sites of Balthazar/Kralkatorrik): Crystal, Fury, Death, Shadow, Plant, Mind, Fire (of Balthazar with potentially a slice from Primordus as well depending on how Balthazar had absorbed the magic into himself) and whatever remnant of Balthazar's divine energy allowed Kralkatorrik the ability to enter and exit the Mists at will, create remote storms in distant locations as well as bypass protection from divine magic (as seen by how Kralkatorrik was able to circumvent the djinn's Brand protection which had been derived from remnants of Abaddon's magic in Season 4).

    Given Jormag's interest in the Mists (as shown in the norn personal story branch, "Guard the Mists", where the Sons of Svanir and Icebrood abused a captured havroun's Mist-traversing ability by forcibly opening portals into the Mists to spread Jormag's influence there) and its already considerable abilities in persuasion and with storms (like how it created years-long blizzard when it woke up), I could see Jormag attempting to boost its power with:

    • Fury (Kralkatorrik's storms which could be cast remotely after the absorption of Balthazar's magic; just imagine Jormag creating remote blizzards that bury the entire Tyria under snow like its mere minion Dragonspawn was able to bury Hoelbrak under snow in retaliation for the actions of Eir's group in Edge of Destiny),
    • Mind (boost the synchronization of the icebrood consciousnesses and perhaps find a way into the Dream to turn the Ice Dragon's essence immortal Mordremoth-style even if the dragon's physical body and heart are destroyed, as well as affect sylvari via the Dream and Nightmare depending on how deeply Mordremoth's Mind spectrum is tied to sylvari consciousness compared to the Plant spectrum),
    • Balthazar's divine magic (allows the ability to enter the Mists and circumvent the protection from divine magic so Jormag gains the ability to possibly even corrupt the gods should they ever dare to return to confront it, and we can no longer rely on the protective and minion-repelling effects of divine magic such as Season 2's Divine Fire or Kormir's protective magic surrounding the Sun's Refuge).
    • I could imagine Jormag either wishing to use Death or Shadow spectrum from Zhaitan. While in Edge of Destiny the Dragonspawn was already able to raise dead corpses as icebrood, this may not be canon anymore given later dev statements that none of the other Elder Dragons had the Death ability to raise corpses until Zhaitan's demise. Perhaps we'll see Jormag using the Death spectrum to resurrect powerful slain champions or use the Mind spectrum to clone their consciousnesses into new bodies to effectively turn them immortal as we saw Mordremoth do with the three Mordrem Guard Commanders at Dragon's Stand. The Shadow spectrum is a bit more elusive but depending on how the devs intend to use it (beyond minions arriving under a cloak of darkness as shown in personal story with the Risen), I could see Jormag and its champions using blizzard abilities and the ensuing darkness to further boost their minions' effectiveness in battle and to demoralize the enemy.

    Where this all leads will be intriguing to witness depending on how wild the story gets. How many of the aforementioned abilities, if any, will Jormag and its greatest champions show during The Icebrood Saga? If Jormag gains the practical immortality from Mind magic, is able to enter the Mists with Balthazar's magic, if it learns of a way to create liches and consume a newborn lich to gain Aurene-like resurrection ability, and if it finds out about the Hall of Heroes in the Rift which lies in the center of the Mists and how the hall acts as an access point to all space and time (i.e. past, present, and future) in the entire multiverse, we could see some serious problems rising with this basically unkillable Ice Dragon:

    In the middle of The Mists is a spot where time moves neither forward nor back. It is a tear in the fabric of the cosmos, the point of perfect balance between all forces of the universe. This place is known as the Rift, and there is nothing to which it does not connect, nothing that cannot be reached from inside it. Those who have the know-how to travel across the universe through the Mists must pass through the Rift on their way to all other places. It is the center of all things. (Source)
    In the center of the Rift, deep inside the Mists, stands the imposing walled fortress known across the multiverse as the Hall of Heroes. This structure is the pinnacle of the afterlife. When a hero dies, his spirit goes to one of two places: either it is buried with the deceased body, forever trapped inside the rotting flesh and rancid bones of the corpse, or it is released into the Rift. This latter honor goes to only those few whose deeds in life were legendary enough to be known across multiple worlds, and fewer still earn a place among the souls ensconced inside the Hall itself. (Source)

    Jormag would be more or less "immortal" in both mind and body with the combination of Mind spectrum and lich magic while trying to exist in all place and time simultaneously alongside its alternate Tyrian Jormag counterparts. According to past GW2 head writers, each alt Tyria has its own set of Elder Dragons and follows the same timeline with the Pact Commander being the only unique creature per each alt Tyria for unknown reasons, so in each alt Tyria its version of Snaff has died and Aurene has ascended, and each alt Jormag would enter the Mists and the Hall's nexus at the same time as our "Jormag Prime" according to this wild theory and create a "glory" of Jormags who may or may not ally with themselves once they realize that a multiverse and other Jormags exist in the timeline. Makes one's head spin, right? I could imagine such a complex scheme for Jormag if it's allowed to carry out its hinted plans for the Mists, depending on how knowledgeable it is about the inner workings of the All, the cosmos and other Mists realms in general. :)

  • @Kossage.9072 said:
    The interesting thing to think about is if Glint and the Forgotten ever had more candidates in mind for the Legacy project. Even if Glint's plans had suceeded beyond wildest expectations, we'd still have at best three benevolent Elder Dragon replacements (likely Kralkatorrik, Zhaitan, and Mordremoth based on the placements of Glint and the scion nursery cities) while three problematic Elder Dragons (likely Jormag, Primordus and the deep sea dragon) remained to cause chaos. It's fun to think about if Glint was willing to gamble with magical balance by guiding the races to create the Pact with her and her to-be-ascended scions' help and take on the three Elder Dragons one by one or if they found another workaround to the problem as a direct dragon vs. dragon conflict (even if it was three on one) could cause unforeseen consequences.

    The "wildest expectations" involved 20-some eggs in Glint's Lair (I remember someone actually counted the number but I don't recall what that number was). By luck, only two survived long enough for hatchery cities to be built for them (presumably, the destroyers destroyed the rest, leaving only two left - Aurene's and this innert one - since Vlast had hatched in time to defend itself with the Brotherhood's aid).

    If Jormag has received enough magic from both Balthazar and Kralkatorrik (as well as some additional Zhaitan and Mordremoth magic given Kralkatorrik's power boost, and potentially even Primordus magic depending on how that magic had changed when Balthazar took some of it into himself in Season 3 as we did not see him using any Elder Dragon magic during PoF), the Ice Dragon and some of its champions may possess any combination of the following magics now (depending on the amount of magic absorbed, and the distance between them and the death sites of Balthazar/Kralkatorrik): Crystal, Fury, Death, Shadow, Plant, Mind, Fire (of Balthazar with potentially a slice from Primordus as well depending on how Balthazar had absorbed the magic into himself) and whatever remnant of Balthazar's divine energy allowed Kralkatorrik the ability to enter and exit the Mists at will, create remote storms in distant locations as well as bypass protection from divine magic (as seen by how Kralkatorrik was able to circumvent the djinn's Brand protection which had been derived from remnants of Abaddon's magic in Season 4).

    I don't think we'll see any fire magic in the icebrood, simply because there's no real sign of Balthazar's magic changing from Taimi's Pet Project to Path of Fire. The style of the fires remained the same, just became more powerful, and Balthazar not only absorbed Primordus' energy, but Jormag's too, and we see nothing relating to ice in Path of Fire. Given this, it seems that Balthazar completely converted his magic into his own, but when Aurene and Kralkatorrik took it, they got the ability to open portals, and nothing fire related (that they didn't have before at least).

    Where this all leads will be intriguing to witness depending on how wild the story gets. How many of the aforementioned abilities, if any, will Jormag and its greatest champions show during The Icebrood Saga? If Jormag gains the practical immortality from Mind magic, is able to enter the Mists with Balthazar's magic, if it learns of a way to create liches and consume a newborn lich to gain Aurene-like resurrection ability, and if it finds out about the Hall of Heroes in the Rift which lies in the center of the Mists and how the hall acts as an access point to all space and time (i.e. past, present, and future) in the entire multiverse, we could see some serious problems rising with this basically unkillable Ice Dragon:

    In the middle of The Mists is a spot where time moves neither forward nor back. It is a tear in the fabric of the cosmos, the point of perfect balance between all forces of the universe. This place is known as the Rift, and there is nothing to which it does not connect, nothing that cannot be reached from inside it. Those who have the know-how to travel across the universe through the Mists must pass through the Rift on their way to all other places. It is the center of all things. (Source)
    In the center of the Rift, deep inside the Mists, stands the imposing walled fortress known across the multiverse as the Hall of Heroes. This structure is the pinnacle of the afterlife. When a hero dies, his spirit goes to one of two places: either it is buried with the deceased body, forever trapped inside the rotting flesh and rancid bones of the corpse, or it is released into the Rift. This latter honor goes to only those few whose deeds in life were legendary enough to be known across multiple worlds, and fewer still earn a place among the souls ensconced inside the Hall itself. (Source)

    Jormag would be more or less "immortal" in both mind and body with the combination of Mind spectrum and lich magic while trying to exist in all place and time simultaneously alongside its alternate Tyrian Jormag counterparts. According to past GW2 head writers, each alt Tyria has its own set of Elder Dragons and follows the same timeline with the Pact Commander being the only unique creature per each alt Tyria for unknown reasons, so in each alt Tyria its version of Snaff has died and Aurene has ascended, and each alt Jormag would enter the Mists and the Hall's nexus at the same time as our "Jormag Prime" according to this wild theory and create a "glory" of Jormags who may or may not ally with themselves once they realize that a multiverse and other Jormags exist in the timeline. Makes one's head spin, right? I could imagine such a complex scheme for Jormag if it's allowed to carry out its hinted plans for the Mists, depending on how knowledgeable it is about the inner workings of the All, the cosmos and other Mists realms in general. :)

    You really want an triple-sided Elder Dragon fight in the Rift, don't you? :tongue:

    I doubt they'll go that hamfisted with Jormag's difficulty. Though something I'd find interesting to see would be if Jormag invaded the Underworld and ate Dhuum, who had similar mind-altering abilities like Jormag's persuasion.

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  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:
    You see, Konig, this is why I don't like airing my opinions on this forum. You're a pessimist. I'll stick to my side of the sandpit. You stick to yours.

    Nothing I said was pessimistic but okay, you go and be overly sensitive to people disagreeing with you or clarifying something you missed.

    It's a fact that Kralkatorrik isn't an Elder Dragon of Time, because we were given his canonical domains recently, and they are Crystal and Fury. Like or dislike the revelation, that revelation is canon. I know I dislike some canon (and voice such dislike when I feel it doesn't make logical sense), but don't complain that others tell you that your theories breaks established canon lore.

    If you're more interested in breaking canon with stories, then you're more than welcome to write your fan-fiction, but either denote it as such, or use the fan fiction forum.

    Really the only established "Canon lore" is that Taimi thinks these are helpful classifications of the dragons' magic. The Asura may be smart, but they're just trying to figure this out like the rest of us.

    At this point I prefer to think of Taimi's classifications as something like a very early periodic table. Maybe onto something, but possibly too clever by half and full of red herrings.