A sinking map

[EMPI.4013]

This is merely a suggestion, but could we in time get a map that both rises and sinks under the ocean. I recently watched the mysterious island, and thought that would be a cool map. Where the meta event involves the entire map sinking into the ocean. It then stays in the ocean for the hour then the following meta event involves it rising out of the sea.

I think if we ever do get an underwater mount, a map like this could be a good way to introduce it. Of course a map like this would end up being linked to the dsd which is a ways away from being dealt with, but just giving a possibility.

[Naxos.2503]

I actually would love that, if only for the novelty. But that'd be HELL to code on this engine I think. The rising water is one thing, but you'd also have to worry about what is static and what isn't, how are monsters impacted... etc.

I'd definitely love to have that, but I'm not sure how doable it is in effect

[Rasimir.6239]

Interesting idea, but judging from the way all of the maps we currently have work (e.g. fixed landmasses populated with situational obstacles and npc) I suspect it may well be out of scope for the game's engine. Still, maybe they could pull of something similar without changing the water level.

[Randulf.7614]

Def an interesting idea

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Naxos.2503 said:I actually would love that, if only for the novelty. But that'd be HELL to code on this engine I think. The rising water is one thing, but you'd also have to worry about what is static and what isn't, how are monsters impacted... etc.

I'd definitely love to have that, but I'm not sure how doable it is in effect

Nah it would just do a cutscene reset like Dragonstand does

[DonArkanio.6419]

That is actually a very nice idea. And it could make sense for Primordus / DSD plot. Since there is no Zhaitan, Orr goes off the list :/ But maybe Abaddon prepared some tricks.

[GWMO.4785]

Sounds like an interesting idea. However mechanically it would be similar to Dragons Stance / Fall. Where its practically all about pushing meta over the entire map. Which unfortunately doesnt last long cause people dont play it for a long while. Wich is related to not enough interesting rewards or ANet nerfing the map as usual.

[Etria.3642]

I would love a map with a slowly shrinking land mass, but please let the events that go from above water to below water work reliably both ways. Or maybe have events gradually move inland with a final boss fight before the last bit is gone.

Hmm. Maybe a linked map to uncover the island again?

Just having a tidal wave flood the island wouldn't be as fun.

But I agree, nifty idea.

[Danikat.8537]

I like the idea, but I'm not sure if it's possible currently. I can't remember any situations where the water level raises or the floor lowers in the game currently so it might require them to build new tech to enable it, which means it's likely to need a very good reason to justify the time and effort required from developers and potentially programmers to enable it.

Something like the floor cracking and falling away, dropping you into the water below, would be easier since destructible platforms definitely exist already, and could fit with the event-related nature. Not sure what would destroy it but I'm sure Anet could come up with something. (If I remember correctly we were told the krait and even the karka fled the deep ocean to escape the Deep Sea Dragons minions, so they must be pretty dangerous and it wouldn't surprise me if one could destroy a small island.)

But however it's done I like the idea of a map which regularly changes between land and sea modes, with different stuff accessible in each state.

[starhunter.6015]

@Naxos.2503 said:I actually would love that, if only for the novelty. But that'd be HELL to code on this engine I think. The rising water is one thing, but you'd also have to worry about what is static and what isn't, how are monsters impacted... etc.

I'd definitely love to have that, but I'm not sure how doable it is in effect

Would be best to leave the island static and just code the water to rise for that map.

[starhunter.6015]

@Danikat.8537 said:Halloween clock tower, rising water/slime so the engine is in game.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@starhunter.6015 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:Halloween clock tower, rising water/slime so the engine is in game.

I have a feeling a rising killfield (wich is what Clocktower has) is a lot easier than a rising actual water level. A rising water level means if I stand still, I transition from standing to swimming without moving.

Given that the current tech can't even have two true water levels in the same map - try the skimmer in Dragonfall or Jahai and you'll notice only the "bottom" water gives the speed boost - I doubt a moving water level is currently possible.

[ugrakarma.9416]

well its a good idea but coding it would be a hell lolz. anyway the game has some "static" stuff that move like the airship in Dragon Fall and boats, it could be it a starting point.

[Goettel.4389]

Sounds cool.

[Danikat.8537]

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:

@starhunter.6015 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:Halloween clock tower, rising water/slime so the engine is in game.

I have a feeling a rising killfield (wich is what Clocktower has) is

a lot

easier than a rising

actual water level

. A rising water level means if I stand still, I transition from standing to swimming without moving.

Given that the current tech can't even have two true water levels in the same map - try the skimmer in Dragonfall or Jahai and you'll notice only the "bottom" water gives the speed boost - I doubt a

moving

water level is currently possible.

Yeah the water in the clocktower isn't actually water, it's a kill field with a water effect in the same place, but even if it didn't kill you there's no way to swim in it.

The first year I kept on encountering a bug on that jumping puzzle where instead of the cut scene I'd see my character and everyone else's standing on the roof of the building you start in, then instead of landing on the platform to start the puzzle I'd drop into the water (the actual water) below it and end up swimming around until the timer ran out.

I got to see some cool game design 'tricks' as a result of that - like the rising 'water' level above the actual water, and the fact that there's two clock towers; the one you see from the lobby with the puzzle spinning around it and the one you climb (which is behind the lobby) where the puzzle is stationary and the tower spins to create the illusion that you're moving. But honestly I'd rather have gotten to do the puzzle. (It was fixed in later years thankfully.)

That's why I suggested having a break-away floor instead, it's something the game engine can definitely do and could probably be used to create the illusion that the floor is sinking or the water is rising. Or they could just have it break, if that fits the story better.

But it's probably something Anet could figure out. Game developers can do some pretty weird things to make it look like a game can do something which the engine didn't allow for. As described in possibly my favourite article about game design (certainly one of my favourite headlines): https://kotaku.com/the-invisible-bunnies-that-power-world-of-warcraft-1791576630

I think it's worth us considering how it might be done because it could effect the design of the map and the meta event, and the time and effort required (and therefore how likely it is to happen at all) but the important thing from our perspective is just to consider whether it would be fun and something we'd want to spend our time doing in GW2.

[Aaralyna.3104]

That does sound interesting. A bit like the Dutch Wadden Sea. You can walk over muddy land during day but when tide changes it becomes part of the sea where ships can actually go through. The water rise ain't big in this either. But if its possible to code such in a game no clue.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@starhunter.6015 said:Halloween clock tower, rising water/slime so the engine is in game.

The green mist isn't the water level though. You can sometimes bug through it and end up in the water well below. The green mist is basically a zone portal that slowly moves upward.

The easy way would definitely be to code the water level to rise/lower, but I recall reading that the water level in GW2 maps is static at the 0 point on the Z axis.

If this cannot be changed, then that would mean that the only way to do the idea is to code every other static item to rise and fall instead. That'd be hell, since you'd also have to code variable spawning locations (for both player and NPCs) based on the timer.

[LucianDK.8615]

The only way I could see this happen, is that upon set times players are auto loaded into a different map with higher water. But that carries its own issues with ppl with potato computers or bad connections fails to load or dcs.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

I hate the idea already.

[Danikat.8537]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:I hate the idea already.

Any particular reason? Is it because it would be another meta-event map? Because it involves underwater content? Because the map would change? Some other reason?

[Tinker.6924]

It seems like an interesting idea but a lot depends on how the sinking/rising was done. If it was a cutscene and basically one moment, you're dry, and the next you're all wet i wouldn't find that interesting. If it was a gradual thing you could play through... that might be interesting

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Danikat.8537 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:I hate the idea already.

Any particular reason? Is it because it would be another meta-event map? Because it involves underwater content? Because the map would change? Some other reason?

because I hate 'area turns into a death zone' type of content. Even if you do not die but swim happily, I am still not a fan.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

We have a couple of mechanics in the game, which render the idea quite possible.

During LS3 (e. g. Ember Bay), they tested a very cool tidal system. It simulated tidal movement in an ocean, instead of just floating on a flat water-surface.

During LS4 (Sandswept Isles), they tested an improved weather-script. The Zohaqan meta-event-chain uses the "storm mechanic." With every stage of the meta-event, the weather on the entire map changed. Depending on the different stages, a lot of things changed on the map. In addition there is the "Ancestor Tree" in Jahai Bluffs, which uses a similar system only in a smaller section of a map. Those of you who have been here during the Scarlet War (finale) probably also remember the "miasma-mechanic" which limited the accessibility of Lion's Arch during the evacuation process. Not to mention the Dragonfall meta-event.

The difficult part comes with the slowly rising water-level. I am not a huge fan of the forced cutscene mechanic, since Castlevania II with its annoying day/night cycle. It does look cool at first, but the more time you spend on the map, the more annoying it becomes.

There is a quite simple option without wasting tons of resources in animation or breaking the immersion. The best place for such an element would be a locked up section of the map, not the entire map. Like a tidal-cave near the shores. It could be inhabited by humans during ebb and by quaggans during flood. It does not have to be instanced. During the tides, an NPC from either race announces in the center that the tides begin to start and the flood will push out people into the far ocean. You get a timer with ~ 5-10 minutes in the top right corner, like with the Dragons Stand meta, then you get teleported out. During the tides, the cave cannot be accessed and has a draw-back mechanic, like the one we know from most ocean-connected maps. It just pushes you back. If you dare to glitch through, it ports you to the map-starting points ... the usual thing ^^. That would be an easy approach, no complicated animations or mechanics. It is basically just a door-lock system as we know it from other maps. We could have a miasma-like area effect during the final minutes of the counter inside cave. Does not have to hurt people, just show them the flood is coming.

They could also make the tidal-change a bit more dynamic. Adding two more phases into the cycle. A pre-phase where the area slowly fills with water or just has a rest of water on the ground. We could use the floor-tile mechanic from the Pedestals in Draconis Mons. Disappearing platforms, which reveal the water below. Could use it in small holes and pools on the surface, which obviously first fill with water. Those could be hovered with the skimmer. It already works that way in Draconis Mons. There also is a similar mechanic used in Bitterfrost Frontier inside the Bitter Cold.

It is a really nice idea and I still hope to see more (under)water-content in the game in the future. The game already has a couple of nice mechanics, which work quite well. A fully dynamic system might be a bit too much, we are an MMORPG after all, not a single player game with infinite resources.