Future Plans: Competitive - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Future Plans: Competitive

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  • I like seeing posts like these and would like to give some humbe feedback:

    You have game modes within your IP that you could do a great deal with. Looking back at GW1 you could do Alliance Battle style Front-Line pushing combat as GvG format. I realize Stronghold as a format is largely forgotten, but take Fort Aspenwood and jade quarry from GW1 and maybe transform them into something GW2 could do. There's so much you already have examples of that you could take inspiration from and I want so badly for you all to succeed, but conquest is so staaaaale!

    Please believe me!

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Dark.7235Dark.7235 Member
    edited August 31, 2019

    Figured out the Caps issue. Also, sorry that's kind of hard to read, just not feeling well today. I did go through and spell check but It was sloppy. LOL. Apologies! If you read through that wall of text good on ya and thanks for entertaining my Ideas as sloppy and poorly as that was written out.

  • 2v2 mini seasons would be GREAT. Maybe mini seasons with different rulesets would be very cool as well (only core-specs allowed or something like codex arena from gw1 where random skills would not be equipable)

    What PvP really needs however is more guild focus. Why can't a guild have a PvP-Arena thats integrated to the guild hall system? Why are tournaments not about guilds? Why is there no tournament-guild-leaderboard? Why are guild emblems not displayed on the little flags in the maps? Why can't we get cool Guild decorations from playing with our guild? Guilds do not matter in PvP whatsoever and that's bad.

  • While we are waiting for an alliance system, can you bring back the 2014 WvW tournament? You make the linkings fixed for the tournament. This way you gove something to the wvw players (and also get a lot of money from transfer and data e you a are collecting for the alliance system)

  • Thanks for the communication. Hope the Alliance system revitalizes WvW.

    I am primarily a WvW player (or was when I was more active) but I don't think it's fair for people to compare LW content to updating WvW. There is no design complexity to LW. It's just a case of repeating a proven construction formula of writing story and rendering artwork rather than inventing something new. It is understandable that they churn LW out alot faster than restructuring WvW. The WvW restructure is essentially an attempt re-invent and redesign a whole game mode while trying to balance a ton of different incentive structures of alot of different people. I mean, it's not like there is some other RvR game that has solved all the issues that you can just point Anet towards and say 'do it like them'.

    That being said, it is hard to maintain enthusiasm and positivity as a player, given the long time frames involved and lack of any concrete carrot to point to.

  • @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:

    World Vs. World

    Scaling Objective Rewards

    We’re looking to add some additional rewards to WvW. One of the big ways we’re looking into doing this is added rewards for capturing and defending objectives that scale up based on how big the action was. For example successfully capturing a keep that was defended by 50 players should be a lot more rewarding than capturing a keep that was completely undefended.

    RIP havoc groups.

    Seriously though, as some people have pointed out, I hope the lag issue will be resolved before this is implemented, because this just encourages even more massive blob fests over small group/solo skill play. It'll be even more like, "if you're not blobbing WvW, you're doing it wrong."

    Something that I think that was very clever was the whole pips thing; it allowed whatever kind of participation you like (solo, small group, scout, zerg, etc.) receive the same reward, so nobody felt like they had to zerg. If anything, it should be the other way around: WvW should be rewarding the smaller groups with bigger rewards for taking/defending stuff because it's harder to do and encourages more WvW participation especially during no-zerg hours. The zergs already get lots of loot from killing anyhow.

    Speaking of scaling, can the keep lords be scaled dynamically instead of a flat 10 ppl cap ? As soon as that 11th person shows up, forget getting the defiance bar down at all or health bar down for 10 minutes. I'm guessing on the numbers.

    World Restructuring

    World restructuring, commonly referred to as the Alliance system, remains our top priority for WvW. We’re not going into details on this post, since a lot of detail has been released previously. We are still not in a place where we feel comfortable releasing a target date, but we are still working on it.

    There remain big issues in WvW there are not addressed by World Restructuring. The biggest one is finding a means to make winning mean something in WvW without motivating players to burn themselves out trying to maintain 24/7 coverage. We have some early designs built around this and will be investigating them once World Restructuring is finished so it is a bit too early for us to go into details around the ideas, but we’re thinking about them.

    I understand how difficult the balance for this one is, since you don't want to have too much higher of a reward for winning vs. losing, because then everybody will want to be in the One World Order. But then again, if everybody gets the same participation trophy, there isn't much to care about other than honor and fun of fighting/capping. How about a reward based on a required number of skirmishes won? Say, for instance, 15? This way every alliance has a chance for the max reward of the week, but they have to fight for it. Some alliances might game such a system, but it's not that different than a "PvP arena for dailies" thing.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    scale for capture ?
    please no.
    if that no any point check and have strategy to split enemy.. just make blob and do it.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    Thanks for detailed info. Love to read this. You have us in your minds <3

    Jokaurene

  • Lala.8752Lala.8752 Member ✭✭✭

    what is the best meme alliance or swiss tournament ?

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    A new mount the WarYak drags a gate behind it that when you use the siege skill it adds another gate to where the first gate is. A limit of 50 layers of extra gates except for one server who will be allowed to have 175 extra gates to ensure they still give outnumbered buff to the two opposing sides that have a queue of people waiting to get on the map.

    So before anymore rewards are given this WarYak has to be in the hands of players ensuring that you need 24/7 coverage to finish one fight. To be serious for possible millisecond the worst problem I can see before anything happens is that besides the red bl all the other maps will run into the same usual problems where its just a bunch of people seiging each other from behind the walls of another objective biggest example is towers to smc or people on third floor trebbing the outer towers. I would just recommend that the basis of what the towers provide become something to encourage less sieging and more fights. Like the red borderland getting around it is not a problem anymore but the purpose for the towers is lacking and the ability to use shrines to your advantage is utmost impossible. What I would recommend is that the towers actually shield the shrines from being attacked so then once the tower falls the shrines can then be attacked. As well also watchtowers are what causes wvw to be dead after resets because it eliminates scouting and strategy out of the game when you just have an ability like this that has no counter play to it. My suggestion on this since no one wants to try to attack something that auto scouts for already hard to take T3 tower in this regard is to make the radius of it dependent on the supply level so its highest amount of supply it would use it until a certain amount and then stop draining it and actually have a smaller radius depending on the supply level from like 0% to 75% or something like that and if your population gives the outnumbered buff to another side that they are immune from detection. Basically some changes that allows the game mode to thrive outside of reset and make people no longer rely on passive abilities like this.

    Oh yeah lastly there are players that over time have begun to view wvw for pip farming for rewards where they aren't botting or afking but almost the same exact thing. They just go in with ungeared characters and just throw themselves on the enemy hoping to get a tag in to count for participation and then just sit around clogging up the map queues so you can have an enemy full of serious active players and then these people abusing the system which they are the same players that are saying nerf this nerf that I don't like it so nerf it. Some kind of check internally that points these people to eotm or something until they begin to get serious enough to be something more than a rally bot.

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Happy Yes.1453 said:
    By now we know the only reason why you are not posting a specific timetable is because the majority would uninstall if they knew how long this will take to implement. You have lost all credibility in the PvP community and you rather keep it that way than making a fixed commitment. It really makes you wonder. Is reality even worse than we think at this point?

    Posts like this are the reason they never tell us anything in advance. Every time they do it's not fast enough, if they don't then the game is dead and they're incompetent.
    Also we JUST heard that swiss tournaments are around the corner, is that not enough? Would you rather they never release it now because it wasn't fast enough before? Doesn't make sense to me to complain about nothing being done when the talk about it was that it is almost done.

    Homie, Idk how much you PvP but but swiss was "SoonTM" back in 2018.

  • OutOfOrder.3719OutOfOrder.3719 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    Chaotic interruption Mirage is still way too strong in WvW roaming and PvP. The penalty of your weapon recharge rate being reduced is absolutely meaningless. The Mirage cloak damage from your illusions critically hitting with Infinite horizon is where all the damage comes from.

    You are also introducing a guaranteed interrupt from chaotic storm , which is also used for the chaotic interruption Mirage build by taking staff.

    This build is Cancer in WvW roaming and PvP 5vs5 Ranked. Please address this properly. You temporarily disabled it in PvP, until supposedly it could be addressed properly.

    From what I can see, it has not been reworked or addressed properly.

    I know that Mesmer identity is being able to disrupt, but players should not be immobilized and dazed simultaneously. It’s way too powerful and ruined last season once everyone started using this build.

    On another note, all the other changes look like they could improve WvW Zerg fights in general. But this is what stood out immediately after reading these proposed changes.

    Now I know people are going to put me in Over Nerf Mirage clan, but that really isn’t the case.

    I actually think the most powerful classes in PvP that have not been addressed or toned down is Holosmith and Spellbreaker. Now Spellbreaker has been toned down a couple times, but Holosmith Damage output really should be addressed.

    As a Scourge main, this is what I can really comment on. Reducing the barrier output of Sand Flare in WvW will make it easier to zerg bust and probably make it slightly easier to take down a Zerg. However, if this change was also implemented in PvP it would nerf Scourge out of the meta and make it way to easy to kill solo Necros. This is a solid change for WvW and well thought out. However, this should never be implemented in PvP, but is reasonable change to make for WvW.

    Reducing Aegis spam from Firebrand looks good too.

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:

    sPvP

    Monthly Tournaments

    Getting monthly tournaments back on, is currently our #1 priority for PvP. We’re working on this as fast as we can. (Note: Fixes may already be live by the time this post is up.)

    Meanwhile people in the next sticky thread still post daily about getting stuck in ATs and Rankeds/Unrankeds. You really have no shame.

    Also, top priorities for sPvP are one feature that was introduced 2 years ago, was kitten up and is now disabled and a minor change that was announced 1,5 years ago and was supposed to have gone life in 2018. Enough said, really.

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about Balance and PvP content

  • Mini seasons sound pretty cool. So cool infact; that maybe they should be added as a permanent ranked gamemode, and SoloQ should be a separate option to queue for ranked. It would be really nice for coordinated teams to stop getting matched with uncoordinated SoloQ players.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • @Cronos.6532 said:
    Can you guys also re-poll cannon blueprints? I think that people would be more likely to accept additional blueprints if placeable cannons were balanced by decreasing their damage or range, or increasing their supply and currency costs. They were close to being added to the game, but people voted no as they were too powerful at the time.

    Given how weak siege is against players in general I think we need more of it and more powerful. I'm pretty sure if a weapon can blast a hole in a stone wall that it can do far far more damage to a meatbag.

    I do see potentials for abuse, but they might be resolved perhaps by requiring cannons to only be placeable on hardpoints? So that means on walls or floors in structures, but not on grassland outside as you are seiging into a building.

    But in general siege ought to do far more DPS than character skills.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    about wvw:

    the game need to be changed to be less raid and commander dependent, if i enter at wvw and i saw no commander or raid i will just leave, then the next player will do the same and we got a loop there and wvw will be empty.

    make a matchmaking to players auto enter in a party/squad when they join wvw, so they can stick together and do something, with the choice to leave and join another one or play solo if they want.

    Just give players a stats buff +50 to +500 all stats plus easier building capabilities when outnumbered like the lords has based on how many enemies players are around in a radius (5000 away?), so we can play when there's no commander to zerg, maybe this will force players do more tactical parties and conquest different places and not leave wvw when outnumbered, the game will be way more fun to have more commanders playing at different places, the map is huge but 90% of the time there's only one commander taking one place at a time with a huge raid just spamming skills and one raid defending ,since no one know what they are doing because they can't see anything.

    Make worth using sieges weapons :
    players just stay there launching their aoe skills at the wall, do not let players attack from walls to ground or ground to wall unless they are using a siege weapon( just show a invalid path msg like teleport skills), the players skills will hit way more than sieges so they are useless, if players want to pvp they should go to the ground or enter the place(tower/keep), if players want to attack the sieges they should make others sieges on the ground or above the walls, so make sieges cost less supplies to build so you need only one full supply capacity to finish and don't have to go back to a camp/tower to gather more, this will make players start using it on battles.

    Make siege building a skill:
    give players a interface bar just for siege weapons give it a cooldown and that can be a mastery where players can build better weapons if leveled up, not is more annoying than searching for itens on the inventory in the middle of the combat and taking room from the inventory, i just destroy then all after i leave wvw then i have nothing when i want to play again.

    Make worth taking towers/keeps/camps:
    it's always look that do not worth taking towers and keeps

    Give buffs on supply capacity based on how many camps/towers/keep was taken by your wolrd up to +20 plus your normal capacity;
    Give more pips based on how many camps/towers/keeps was taken by your world, this will force players take more places just to get more pips, like +0,5 per place taken+1 per keep;
    Give a 5 min pip buff or next tick to players that take camps/towers/keeps/castle +1 to camp +2 to towers +3 to keeps +4 to castle, so they get rewarded for it;
    Buff the walls of the castle based on how many towers the world has around, this will force players take towers before the castle and force the owner of the castle keep towers to keep the castle;
    Give a option to hide mercenaries(camps):
    call help from champions mercenaries to defend or attack towers if you have enough supplies for it;
    Give a option to hide npc golems(towers):
    call help from golems to destroy walls/gates if you have enough supplies for it;
    Give a option to hide legendary heroes(keep):
    call help from legendary heroes defend the castle or attack the enemy castle if you have enough supplies for it;
    like if you give them 100-500 supplies they will fight for you;

    Does even worth killing or defending caravans?
    Make a option to caravans follow you with fasters speeds so you can carry more supplies and build more sieges;
    Give supplies to enemy players that kill caravans and make near players defending it lose supplies if a caravan die;

    Give more rewards for the world that win:
    if a world win everyone from the world will get a buff at pve like +100% magic find +10% dmg/def etc... 2º place get the buff halved and 3º place get nothing or just give the buff if someone finish the wood chest, this will incentive pve players join wvw just to get buffs so they can finish raids/fractals/bosses easier

    Lower a bit the requeriments to get the rewards from chests:
    you need to play like 3 full days to get all chests, that's insane, just halve the time or give more rewards like more 3 shards per chest for ascended
    Give chests based on what map you are:
    that will give a incentive to players play others maps that is always empty, so if you get all the chests on eternal battleground just move to crystal desert or give a parallel chest for every map with vip content's from that map something like Eternal chest/crystal chest...

    just some suggetions

  • Personally, if you added GvG, Alliance Battles and Fort Aspenwood from GW1, I'd return in no time.

    I really miss these modes.

    Unfortunately, the gameplay doesn't suit PvP that much, but it is always fun to smash your enemies in a coordinated way.

  • OutOfOrder.3719OutOfOrder.3719 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    I have been saying this for 6 months and I will say it again.

    All the Guild vs Guild mode would need is to utilize the same PvP 5vs5 Ranked Maps and create a separate team ladder to allow 5 man teams to compete. The only game development would be creating a GvsG 5vs5 ladder that is completely separate from the current solo/duo que Ranked ladder system.

    On demand tournaments will never be as successful, as implementing a separate GvsG ladder which PvP players have been asking for 7 years.

    Now some people will say they want a completely brand new game mode for PvP, but I think this is unrealistic at this point. But creating a separate GvsG ladder for 5vs5 using current maps would be possible if ANET wanted to implement new game modes.

    I am honestly, really looking forward to the new Mini-Seasons for 2vs2 or 3vs3. I can’t wait for this season to be over, in order to climb a 2vs2 or 3vs3 ladder as brand new content. I suspect these Mini off-season’s will be the best competition this game has ever seen.

    I’m a RTS Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2 player at heart, and can’t wait to shine in 2vs2 and 3vs3.

  • Tbh, I expect GW2 to run its course for the next 2-3 years until GW3 or whatever project ANet is currently working on is announced/released. Sales have been plummeting for a very long time, the lay-offs and the announcement of the Icebrood Saga as well as the vague timeframe in OP show where their focus is.

    All I can say is thank you for great gaming in GW2 and even moreso in GW1. GW1 still got my heart (and, personally, is the better game).

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Tbh, I expect GW2 to run its course for the next 2-3 years until GW3 or whatever project ANet is currently working on is announced/released. Sales have been plummeting for a very long time, the lay-offs and the announcement of the Icebrood Saga as well as the vague timeframe in OP show where their focus is.

    All I can say is thank you for great gaming in GW2 and even moreso in GW1. GW1 still got my heart (and, personally, is the better game).

    Sales have been stable for a long long time. Sure sales go down out from an expansion but the current last three quarters are not the lowest this game has ever seen. We had quarters lower than this back in 2016. So sales haven't been plummeting for a long long time.

    As for the lay offs, most of the people laid off weren't working on this game. If you do the math, the game started with about 300 employees and hired about a hundred more. Then let go about 140. So you're about 40 employees less than there were at launch. Most of those employees were not working on Guild Wars 2, but other projects which were cancelled. On top of that, some people who were working on other projects were moved back to Guild Wars 2.

    No one really knows how many people are working on Guild Wars 2 now compared with before the layoffs.

    You're trying to equate Guild Wars 2 with Anet, but Anet is a company that did have other irons on the fire, From all reports, those layoffs mostly centered around those other projects.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    Tbh i don't get why you wait for swiss with special tournaments? We already had 2 without swiss which were a success. You already needed too long for swiss to be released and when it finally will be up no one will be left care enough for the game to come back for some special ATs. Just give us this low effort free content already, we don't need swiss for it.
    And give us new elite specs with or without expansion. It is new content you get for all 3 gamemodes simultaneously and a heavily needed meta shake up in all gamemodes.

    Also you can't let the community do all the effort to make tournaments, we need way more Anet support for hardcore and competitive content, including GvG and hardcore Raiding btw. You don't need to go back to ESL format right on the first step but i think the combat system has enough potential to try it again some day when you just start to do more frequent balance changes and hotfixes (so that a bunker meta killing all esport hype cannot survive long enough to hurt the game that much). You have so many casual friendly features which makes sense but don't over do it with being casual friendly. You still need to reward player more for playing your game more and for playing your game better.

    Also don't be too afraid of adding new gamemodes compete with conquest. I think the amount of player coming back to PvP will compensate for the split of the population. And when not you can just delete the modes again (or they just die without your support by its own, like stronghold). Just try something. Nothing can be worse for the game mode than doing nothing and waiting for the few plans you have atm to finally get released after years of waiting already. Also mini seasons sounds good, but i am sure at this point it is not enough to bring ppl back. We need meta shake ups with new elite specs combined with new gamemodes even in competition to conquest (means support with seasons and a q, not onyl during 2 weeks conquest break). Have more trust in your game. The combat system brought it that far even with you dealing with WvW/ PvP so purely most of the time. Imagine what you can get when supporting it better. Its a gold mine can be timeless hype if you do it right. And it is the endless repeatable gamemodes like PvP/WvW/ GvG you can harvest the gold mine the easiest than with PvE ever. Wake up, i beg you, and risk something, try something. The best way to waste all the potential of your game is to be afraid to try stuff, to admit when it failed, to go a step back and try something else.

    Hell i even would pay a monthy sub only directed to PvP/WvW/GvG for more Anet support and more content and better/ more balance patches. And i know i am by far not the only one. Start harvesting!

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    so best what we can see in plans this is added spirit watch map to ranked ?

  • Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

  • Sorem.9157Sorem.9157 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dark.7235 said:
    All of this is fine and fluffy. It makes very little difference. The different modes need sweeping massive changes with regular at least quarterly balances.
    My thoughts are more WvW oriented as over the years I have shifted from PvE and PvP more to WvW. But I have enjoyed all modes over time some to lesser degrees.
    ...

    Logged in just to say that this is probably the best forum post i've ever readen.

    Congrats, I hope they listen to you :)

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

    But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

    But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

    Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

    I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

    But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

    The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

    But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

    Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

    I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

    But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

    The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

    But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

    Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

    I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

    But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

    The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

    Sold as a PvP game?

    Anet said straight out, more than once on the convention tours before the game launched that they didn't even mention PvP for the first year of promotion because they didn't want to give the idea that the game was centered on PvP. They said this. That doesn't mean PvP wasn't important per se, but it wasn't marketed that way. The tag line was always a living breathing world. They talked endlessly about dynamic events. They brought computers to shows showing the Shatterer encounter and later the Shadow Behemoth.

    The PvP attention was very small even after the first year of promotion. You might think since you may have focused on it that it was the center, but I promise you that was not the case.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

    But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

    Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

    I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

    But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

    The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

    But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

    Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

    I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

    But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

    The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

    Sold as a PvP game?

    Anet said straight out, more than once on the convention tours before the game launched that they didn't even mention PvP for the first year of promotion because they didn't want to give the idea that the game was centered on PvP. They said this. That doesn't mean PvP wasn't important per se, but it wasn't marketed that way. The tag line was always a living breathing world. They talked endlessly about dynamic events. They brought computers to shows showing the Shatterer encounter and later the Shadow Behemoth.

    The PvP attention was very small even after the first year of promotion. You might think since you may have focused on it that it was the center, but I promise you that was not the case.

    I don't remember anymore when i started to pay attention to GW2 advertisment pre release and i think it doesn't even matter how much they promoted which gamemode. They clearly made advertisment with PvP/WvW what brought me into the game. So i got fooled? They also clearly supported PvP way more until PoF release then they do now (until it failed with e-sports i guess). So i had reasons to start and continue to play the game as competitive player and now you wanna tell me that i am not welcome anymore? I mean i am happy for you that Open World is your thing and that you are happy to have WvW/PvP as a little side project when running out of content but i think it is not the best way to keep the game alive to only have content for one type of player. And it wasn't like this right from the start, it clearly wasn't. But when Anet changed into this PvE and casual only company than pls Anet, say it that clearly so we can stop our foolish hope and move on, like a lot of competent PvP/WvW player did already.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • what a joke. y’all were promising swiss when i uninstalled this trash last year

    & you’re promising it now like it’s a new feature & not an overdue update announced over a year ago?

    pvp in it’s current state is a complete joke, just like this announcement.

    2v2 as a mode in ranked got me thinking about a reinstall to check to out, but hey why have old players return? old vets coming back to the game? yeah who would want that? just announce content that should have been out months ago as ‘new’ & watch your playbase dwindle further. top tier pvp devs here.

    I'm a punk kid, no reason why
    Nothing finer than the taste of tears running down my face
    Oh cry baby cry, oh cry baby cry oh

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

    But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

    Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

    I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

    But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

    The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

    But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

    Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

    I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

    But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

    The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

    Sold as a PvP game?

    Anet said straight out, more than once on the convention tours before the game launched that they didn't even mention PvP for the first year of promotion because they didn't want to give the idea that the game was centered on PvP. They said this. That doesn't mean PvP wasn't important per se, but it wasn't marketed that way. The tag line was always a living breathing world. They talked endlessly about dynamic events. They brought computers to shows showing the Shatterer encounter and later the Shadow Behemoth.

    The PvP attention was very small even after the first year of promotion. You might think since you may have focused on it that it was the center, but I promise you that was not the case.

    I don't remember anymore when i started to pay attention to GW2 advertisment pre release and i think it doesn't even matter how much they promoted which gamemode. They clearly made advertisment with PvP/WvW what brought me into the game. So i got fooled? They also clearly supported PvP way more until PoF release then they do now (until it failed with e-sports i guess). So i had reasons to start and continue to play the game as competitive player and now you wanna tell me that i am not welcome anymore? I mean i am happy for you that Open World is your thing and that you are happy to have WvW/PvP as a little side project when running out of content but i think it is not the best way to keep the game alive to only have content for one type of player. And it wasn't like this right from the start, it clearly wasn't. But when Anet changed into this PvE and casual only company than pls Anet, say it that clearly so we can stop our foolish hope and move on, like a lot of competent PvP/WvW player did already.

    I don't remember a specific advertisement that was just a PvP advertisement pretty much ever. I do remember that they had some sort of thing at later cons where they demostrated the PvP. The point is, the game wasn't centered on PvP from day one, period. I don't really know how anyone could argue it was. If anything just tracking upgrades in the 7 years since then should have convinced anyone. This is not Anet's bread and butter. It's there, but it's not a focus. They did try to do something with it, but even at it's height there were always far more PvE players. That's the audience.

    I get that that's frustrating. But it's a business reality. If there were more PvPers than PvEer in this game, Anet would behave differently.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

    But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

    Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

    I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

    But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

    The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Pawlegance.7012 said:
    Thanks @Vayne.8563 for the insight.
    @bravan.3876, since PvP and WvW are both underdeveloped and in need of funding and focus, I'd suggest for ANet to introduce gem store skin, outfits, weapon trails, projectiles and whatnot exclusive to these game modes. There is no way to support game modes directly and usually I am fine with that fact, but in this case being able to throw money directly at these game modes could achieve wonders or at least bring them up to par with pve.

    Now you might say gem store items specific to a single game mode could split the playerbase, but pve story episodes already cost gems if you don't login within a time frame, and most expansion content is focused on pve. Unlike pve in pvp fellow players make most the content and we need a lot more of them in the game. Give them incentive to play the game (at least to show off with their fancy new finisher or something) and opportunities to support their favourite game (mode)!

    There are a lot of possibilities to support PvP better (and add supported GvG!), they just need to start to do something, the current plans aren't enough at this point. The only new thing is Mini Seasons anyway, everything else is old content, already announced and promised over a year ago. It is not enough, you lit. feel pranked from Anet as a competitive player by that announcement.

    If by that announcement, you're talking about the thing in the theater, that was advertised from day one by Anet as being about Living World Season 5. It's like going to a vegetarian restaurant and saying I'm mad they didn't serve enough meat. It was never an announcement about PvP to begin with.

    That said, I agree PvP doesnt' get enough attention from the devs. I never said otherwise.

    The problem was they hyped it way too much, you thought there will be expansion worthy content, in PoF expansion WvW/PvP wasn't even mentioned as existing gamemodes (remember in HoT we got a new gamemode in PvP, stronghold sadly not supported so it just died, new maps in PvP and WvW), so even if it had been an expansion worthy announcement i would not have expected insane content for PvP/WvW only but at least we would have get new elite specs for the badly needed meta shake up. I mean i saw the name and tried to not get hyped but with such a long pre stream and creating that much hype i could not believe anymore that it is only lw stuff. Not even in a PvE perspective the announcement was that great compared to the hype they created. First Anet barely communicate, then they overhype, it is hard to know what to expect, Anets communication needs to be way more balanced and for that more predictable. Instead content we get a bad joke just a hit into every competitive players face... they act as if they have big competitive content but only reannouce content already promised a year ago for the most parts. Better don't mention PvP/WvW and deny its existent just like during PoF annoucement. The way it was handled it felt more like a menarche.

    They said expansion worth content once, maybe two times. I don't know your definition of hyping it up,. but that's not it. We hyped ourselves up and we should take bit of responsibility for that. Anet does lots of stuff wrong, and they definitely didn't read the community right on this, but they said, straight out this is talking about Season 5 and we said, but expansion level content we're getting X. We don't know what we're getting even now. Because Anet was never going to reveal things that far in the future. They talked about the first two episodes. Beyond that, we have no idea what we're getting and even then, until we actually play it we have no idea.

    Under no circumstance, zero, did I think there would be any PvP news at all in this announcement. I don't believe that was a reasonable expectation no matter how unhappy you are with PvP right now.

    Somehow true but still the missunderstanding is also based in the unbalance of Anets communication, first there is too less and suddently stuff get hyped with a 24+hour prestream (they did more for that announcement than for PoF release). I mean as said i tried to logically think that the name says lw only and still in the end i couldn't believe it will be only this because of the way it got hyped by Anet. The promotion was expansion worthy, the announcement was not. And then you get a bad joke about PvP and they try to sell old content they just didn't release as they promised already as new content. I mean i was not the only competitive player felt for that hype so it must also have to do with the way Anet promoted it. As PvP player you don't even expect much in the first place (and i rly actively said to myself, don't expect anything, the name is lw only and Anet doesn't rly care for PvP etc., my brain literally tryharded to not get hyped), still in the end i was hyped a bit just as a lot of other PvP/WvW player... new elite specs after 2 years of nearly same meta was what we (or at least i) expected, not even big PvP/WvW only content.

    I've always said, and always believed, this announcement wasn't meant for us at all. There's zero reason to go to a con to talk to us. They're trying to get more players into the game. In that they're leading with their strength. It's obvious to me this game is focused on story and open world stuff and everything else is there as part of the larger strategy but not a focus of the company themselves. This company isn't focused on PvP for hard core PvPers. It's focused on PvP for casuals who do that occasionally as part of a much larger picture. I'm one of those casuals and I don't have most of the same issues with PvP that hard core long term PvP players do. Same with WvW. I jump in, get some stuff done, have some fun and move back to PvE, open world and story mostly. Obviously I'm happier than many players because this is where I dwell. In open world PvE. Obviously people who are unhappy have every right to feel the way they feel.

    But I also don't feel that judging an announcement based on unreasonable expectations is good for any form of the game. It's just not helpful in my opinion.

    Yes true that it maybe was mostly to get new player, what is a good thing, it means also more player for WvW/PvP. So i agree to your first part.

    I disagree with the second part. The game wasn't focused on PvE story alone since release. Quite the opposite, it was also sold as PvP/WvW game, they even went for e-sports. But the bad balance and not being able to at least hotfix utterly broken stuff fast made it fail and since PoF release WvW/PvP didn't even get mentioned/ promoted anymore. But then you still have some little piece of new content and promises to keep a little flame of hope up for competitive player. So if it is true (and it would be pretty sad if you are right) then Anet should clearly say that WvW/PvP is not on the table anymore and only a little place some PvE casuals can chill during waiting for new PvE content, getting a new map here and there. I think even in terms of money that would be a bad decision, the playerbase not only here for PvE and the playerbase only here for PvP/WvW/ GvG is in its potential larger than you think and brings more money into the gems shop than you think. Also a good and successful game needs to have content for all type of players, not only the casual PvE player. It needs hardcore PvE content (speedruns, hardcore raiding is completely community driven, now its dead with Mighty Teapot doing a break), comeptitive content for casuals and at least "hardcore casuals". With the great combat system it even is an insane waste to not have at least a supported competitive scene (including GvG, its the games name holy kitten...), not only community driven tournaments and maybe even e-sport again one day (i mean it can be successful when not doing the same mistakes). Some casual features make totally sense (like no gear grind in PvP, no vertical char progression, all the quality of life features.. etc.) but Anet is overdoing it with being casual ONLY and i highly doubt that this is the best way to make money and keep the game alive.

    But yeah when you are right nothing needs to be said anymore and it would be a fair move from Anet to clearly say it, so the last loyal competitive GW2 fan can stop hoping and move on.

    The expectations were not that unreasonable as i explained, they were based on unbalanced communication and an expansion worthy overhype promotion of an announcement made us hope at least for new elite specs not even for only PvP/WvW focused content.

    Sold as a PvP game?

    Anet said straight out, more than once on the convention tours before the game launched that they didn't even mention PvP for the first year of promotion because they didn't want to give the idea that the game was centered on PvP. They said this. That doesn't mean PvP wasn't important per se, but it wasn't marketed that way. The tag line was always a living breathing world. They talked endlessly about dynamic events. They brought computers to shows showing the Shatterer encounter and later the Shadow Behemoth.

    The PvP attention was very small even after the first year of promotion. You might think since you may have focused on it that it was the center, but I promise you that was not the case.

    I don't remember anymore when i started to pay attention to GW2 advertisment pre release and i think it doesn't even matter how much they promoted which gamemode. They clearly made advertisment with PvP/WvW what brought me into the game. So i got fooled? They also clearly supported PvP way more until PoF release then they do now (until it failed with e-sports i guess). So i had reasons to start and continue to play the game as competitive player and now you wanna tell me that i am not welcome anymore? I mean i am happy for you that Open World is your thing and that you are happy to have WvW/PvP as a little side project when running out of content but i think it is not the best way to keep the game alive to only have content for one type of player. And it wasn't like this right from the start, it clearly wasn't. But when Anet changed into this PvE and casual only company than pls Anet, say it that clearly so we can stop our foolish hope and move on, like a lot of competent PvP/WvW player did already.

    I don't remember a specific advertisement that was just a PvP advertisement pretty much ever. I do remember that they had some sort of thing at later cons where they demostrated the PvP. The point is, the game wasn't centered on PvP from day one, period. I don't really know how anyone could argue it was. If anything just tracking upgrades in the 7 years since then should have convinced anyone. This is not Anet's bread and butter. It's there, but it's not a focus. They did try to do something with it, but even at it's height there were always far more PvE players. That's the audience.

    I get that that's frustrating. But it's a business reality. If there were more PvPers than PvEer in this game, Anet would behave differently.

    There were WvW and PvP advertisement i watched pre release , at least PvP/WvW got mentioned as supported gamemodes. You just saw a normal game advertised as a game giving different types of player different type of content. Ofc PvE always is a big part of a game. I mean there even was e-sport. Only after e-sport failed you could feel the support from Anet dropping remarkable (in HoT we got advertised PvP and WvW only content, but in PoF finally no one mentioned PvP/WvW anymore). I mean all the pros and other competitive player didn't join a PvE only game, why would we? PvP/WvW was advertised at least as supported gamemodes aside from big PvE Living World. Or did we dumb PvP/ WvWer just all missunderstood Anet right from the start? Well at least it seems we are not welcome anymore, we can agree to that at least :anguished:

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Disclaimer
    Please, take below suggestions with a grain of salt.


    Here are my thoughts on how to revamp WvW:

    Victory or Death
    Add a rather difficult PvX encounter to WvW. This makes it possible to give higher rewards to WvWers and justify them because it is "hard" content. I call it Victory or Death. In essence, every x hours (e.g. 3-4) a VoD encounter happens. In EB, two teams spawn "Realm Lords" which after a short while begin to move to a common target. E.g. the mid between the garrisons of these teams. They stop moving once they are in range of each other and hurl projectiles at each other. Enemy players in proximity also receive some minor punishment but it is the player's jobs to eliminate one another. When a Realm Lord dies, every player the killing team who tagged that Lord receives a kill proof. On death, the Lord also leaves a control point behind which on capture also rewards all contributing players of that World with a kill proof. This is supposedly a quasi kill confirmed mechanic, which rewards all contributing players of that team in WvW regardless of their location in WvW.

    Kill proofs may be exchanged for high quality gear (ascended, legendary components/weapons/armor).

    Realm Lords may scale in difficulty and rewards with wvw population.

    Change in Scoring
    Killing Lords also replace the current scoring system. World ranking is determined by Lord kill count. Kills may be weighted by population or only every x-th Lord kill counts (to even out population gaps and making sure everyone feels important).

    Remember Lord KIll Contribution
    Each time a Lord is killed, collect contribution per server. Aggregate server contribution per week and buff players of each server at the end of the week accordingly. The buffed factors may be Magic Find, XP boost, mastery boost, reward track boost etc. Advertise your server's contribution to each player, make them proud.

    GvG
    Add a "challenger mode" to guild panels. Here guilds may challenge other guilds in Victory or Death battles. In essence, the fight happens on instanced sections of EB and are designed for a specific team sized. Matches are designed for an early, mid and late game. In early game, players gather supply and build siege weapons, player only skirmishes occur, in mid game most skirmishes are fought with combined weapons of yourself and siege weapons, in late game the Guild Lords (similar to the Realm Lord) move toward each other and accelerate play. A match is decided when a Guild Lord dies. Each Guild Lord is accompanied by their own entourage. Taking them out first is crucial because they heal the Lord. Guild Lords spawn right at the start of the match and may be killed at anytime.

    Guilds receive rating for the outcome of a GvG and get loot similar to WvW Victory or Death.

    Note:
    Guild/Realm Lords cannot be healed, their entourage (if existing) may be healed, tho.

    Ladder
    Add ladder play to GvG similar to Gw1.

    Tournaments
    Add, manual and/or automatic, tournaments which reward guilds with temporary or permanent skins, gear, outfits, etc for top placement. Guilds also climb or fall the ladder faster when participating in tournaments.

    Flux
    Sometimes it is nice to change the current meta. Add mutators/flux to the game which affect certain skill mechanics to shake up play. Nobody likes a stale meta! Flux may be active between tournaments.

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 , well, that's my take on it. You may notice a lot of inspiration came from GW1. Since we don't really have any hard facts to discuss , I chose to bring something hard to discuss into this thread.

    There is a lot more I could write right now, but my baby boy needs some love and attention. Sorry :)

  • While your at it can you actually fix PvP.. it was nice 2 seasons ago well balanced now its just a mess its a game of how much conditions can you do cause no other strat is viable. unless you can do a good spellbreaker but cmon i dont want to have to resort to that give me back my well rounded classes please.

  • Arenanet considers the Beetle mount to be more competitive than the whole PvP game mode.

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @HeadCrowned.6834 said:
    Arenanet considers the Beetle mount to be more competitive than the whole PvP game mode.

    Lol I havent played any of their pve "pvp" models like that. Soooooo borrrinnggg.

    Like circlequest booooorrrrriiiinnnggg zzz zzz zzz zzz

  • ezd.6359ezd.6359 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2019

    @Interpretor.3091 said:
    This post is literally why I quit playing.

    Playing since beta and this is just another fluff post with vague promises, “this is our top priority,” “this is our number 1 priority,” “we still don’t feel comfortable giving any specific release date or information, but this is all very important to us, please keep buying gems in the meantime.”

    Insulting honestly, whoever is in-charge of this kitten should really quit at arena net and go be a politician because they would be great at it. All bull and fluff.

    I just read subtitles, if i dont see anything about builds templates i just skip whole article. I just can't take it serious. It is 7 years since release, but still no builds. Even obvious things like changing pvp build while playing pve still not implemented. It says a lot about how do they care about PVP.

  • First delete bots and cheaters from pvp then do anything i play 7 years and since 1 year there are more bots on pvp than ever !

  • I think everyone salutes working on improving the existing modes as well as experimenting with the new ones such as the 2v2,...
    A couple of things have stuck with me after playing the game for over 4 years and as feedback from someone constantly trying to come back to GW2 from other games, mostly because of the fairness and the value that it gives with respect to its' price, as well as the combat mechanics, I would like to share my thoughts which, I think, a lot of players can relate to.
    1. In GW2, once you get the armor sets that you want, that's pretty much it when it comes to progression. There isn't any strong incentive for continuous pvp/wvw gameplay for most players. On the other hand, even though there are dozens of pve maps, there are only 4 wvw maps. If there was some substantial money prize related to this game mode, I can see the reasoning for not changing the wvw maps (although there's been a change to the home worlds some time in the past). I've moved on from GW2 to Black Desert Online in the past 2 years and the main point that proved the gameplay interesting was that pvp, gvg could happen anywhere on the world map, you can choose and plan where to fight for the node ownership and have the most substantial reward in the game for actually succeeding in it. When you look at GW2, there are so many beautiful pve maps, but are mostly empty because there is no real incentive to visit them other than to enjoy the view if you're into that kind of stuff. Imaging "MAP OWNERSHIP" or "CITY OWNERSHIP" by a guild or server in GW2!!!! I think that the existence of this game mode alone would transform the game and bring a lot of interest back to GW2. The concept is just one of the possible ways wvw and pvp could be transformed into something amazing.
    2. Combat in GW2, even though there are some imbalances between classes(which is bound to exist at some level in any mmo) and can feel a bit slow after coming from some faster paced games, has still some of the most fair, reasonable and, although subjectively, pretty fun mechanics that can highlight the difference between highly skilled vs averagely skilled players. Even though this is in relation to other posts, there is no strong reason for a total remake of the franchise in the way of creating a new game like GW3.
    3. LS updates and the story telling in GW2 has always been one of the strongest aspects of the game. Updating the LS and bringing fresh maps in seems to be the way of dealing with the PVE monotony, with the lack of incentive to grind for gold once you get the ascended/legendary gear. However, even though this has probably been brought to ArenaNet's attention before, it inevitably spreads the game population and has no real incentive for replayability. How many pve maps are too many? In my opinion, there already are too many. I am sure that people would go nuts if, similarly to the point 1., a guild could "own" a dungeon or a fractal tier in a way that wouldn't only show their emblem, but also bring a substantial gold reward to the guild and those funds would be distributable among guild members. Imagine that!
    4. The lack of just solo casual, but not meaningless life skill aspect really needs to be addressed radically where people who would dedicate a certain time for gathering, processing should feel rewarding, whether it be gold or further level cap increase, in game ranking,... In addition to that, with the fashion franchise that it is, adding player housing just seems like a no-brainer and would definitely add a lot to the pve/roleplay communities.
    5. Lastly, as mentioned in the point 3., the lack of substantial incentive after obtaining ascended/legendary gear needs to be addressed in some way. I think there is a lot of room for ideas how to do this, but moves like increasing the stat value for legendary gear, weekly house/villa maintenance, feeding your mounts, acquiring expensive wvw/pvp materials/devices that help in a gvg/wvw war,...

    I really hope that this comment gets the attention of someone from ArenaNet, as well as other fans interested in giving feedback to improve our beloved franchise to the ranks where it potentially deserves.

    Sincerely,
    Garathow

  • @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:
    We don’t feel it’s appropriate for your 2v2/3v3 rank to have any bearing on your conquest rank.

    Do everyone a favor and don't worry about this. Throw rating out, it's a garbage, cruel, inhumane system that lets you think you can get a title but only ever gives the exact same reward to the exact same 250 of the entire population. The exact same players have won the exact same rewards for 18 seasons now. Enough. Do better. Drop this garbage and you might lose some of the horrible toxicity of your pvp atmosphere.

    Btw losing the dancing and forcing ppl to treat each others like humans by having to say gg would be better.

    Also enough with the dreams of esports its obviously not happening when you patch random changes a week before the end of a season. Think outside the box. The rest of your game is best in market. Do better in your pvp. Maybe make it fun. Worry about how to monetize it after its fun.

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