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Vallun.2071

By Vallun.2071
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Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

  • Vallun wants to keep the 3 second block but increase the cooldown to 15 seconds. Result? 1/5 uptime on block, messes up muscle memory for rangers on a skill we've had since release.
  • I want to lower the block to 2 seconds and leave the cooldown at 12 seconds. Result? 1/6 uptime on block, muscle memory stays the same.

It's possible to reduce the effectiveness of abilities without changing the pace of the game and the way the classes play.

lol. everyone with a brain knows that a shorter duration block with a shorter cd is better then a longer duration block with a longer cd. stop trying to make it seem like you're getting the short end of the stick.

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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

on Daredevil is a 16s cd (traited) stunbreak, endurance regen, Pulmonary Impact proc on interrupt, 1.5s block, and the knockdown has both a lower cast time and lasts longer than the CC on GS4's Counterattack Kick.

Something that's also pretty overtuned is mantra mesmer being able to instantly oneshot from stealth on a short interval with zero tells.

thx for proving my point.the best defensive cooldown you could find has1/2 the blockbigger cooldowndoesnt have extra evadedeals less damagenice try to derail btw ;p

Bandit's Defense is also a stunbreak and the CC lasts longer and is easier to get off.

Lower ranger's GS4's block to 2 seconds instead of 3. I'm fine with that.

While we're at it, let's remove Mirage's ability to dodge while CC'd. Maybe tune down Distortion too because traited with Desert Distortion, it's basically a free 7 second evade every 42 seconds that's not even a utility skill.

Oh let's not forget the free, instant cast damage bomb from Mind Wrack and instant, up to 4 second long daze every 32 seconds from Diversion.

I just can't even find anything that comes remotely close to how overtuned those skills are!

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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

on Daredevil is a 16s cd (traited) stunbreak, endurance regen, Pulmonary Impact proc on interrupt, 1.5s block, and the knockdown has both a lower cast time and lasts longer than the CC on GS4's Counterattack Kick.Not even close. One is a weapon skill and another utility slot, rofl. Ranger GS is literally busted and has everything -> evades,mobility, long block, CC's, spammable AOE damage (melee but still literally spams it)3s block channeling, 15s cd, EVADE->CC like fullcounter. Closest what I'd compare would be shield stance on warrior. There is literally no excuse to give anyone such busted skill and weapon to have everything at once

"Ranger GS is literally busted" LOL it can't trade with anything outside of GS4. Coming from someone who plays a class that can evade while CC'd that's rich.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1130944/#Comment_1130944

I already said to nerf the block duration to 2 seconds, honestly 1.5 would still be fine. Just don't touch the cooldown and dumb down the game even more. There are so many classes with the ability to deal with blocks. Increasing the cooldown to 25 seconds is just ridiculous on a skill that can be baited out as easily as Full Counter and has even more ways to counterplay it.

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Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

on Daredevil is a 16s cd (traited) stunbreak, endurance regen, Pulmonary Impact proc on interrupt, 1.5s block, and the knockdown has both a lower cast time and lasts longer than the CC on GS4's Counterattack Kick.Not even close. One is a weapon skill and another utility slot, rofl. Ranger GS is literally busted and has everything -> evades,mobility, long block, CC's, spammable AOE damage (melee but still literally spams it)3s block channeling, 15s cd, EVADE->CC like fullcounter. Closest what I'd compare would be shield stance on warrior. There is literally no excuse to give anyone such busted skill and weapon to have everything at once

"Ranger GS is literally busted" LOL it can't trade with anything outside of GS4. Coming from someone who plays a class that can evade while CC'd that's rich.

Just don't touch the cooldown and dumb down the game even more. Increasing the cooldown to 25 seconds is just ridiculous on a skill that can be baited out as easily as Full Counter and has even more ways to counterplay it.

How is increasing the cooldown dumbing the game down? If anything it does the opposite since you need to think when to use the skill instead of having it pretty much always off cooldown. And it the skill gets baited out you have to deal with the repercussions of being baited / outplayed in that moment instead of not really being punished since the skill will be back up before you know it.

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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

on Daredevil is a 16s cd (traited) stunbreak, endurance regen, Pulmonary Impact proc on interrupt, 1.5s block, and the knockdown has both a lower cast time and lasts longer than the CC on GS4's Counterattack Kick.Not even close. One is a weapon skill and another utility slot, rofl. Ranger GS is literally busted and has everything -> evades,mobility, long block, CC's, spammable AOE damage (melee but still literally spams it)3s block channeling, 15s cd, EVADE->CC like fullcounter. Closest what I'd compare would be shield stance on warrior. There is literally no excuse to give anyone such busted skill and weapon to have everything at once

"Ranger GS is literally busted" LOL it can't trade with anything outside of GS4. Coming from someone who plays a class that can evade while CC'd that's rich.

Just don't touch the cooldown and dumb down the game even more. Increasing the cooldown to 25 seconds is just ridiculous on a skill that can be baited out as easily as Full Counter and has even more ways to counterplay it.

How is increasing the cooldown dumbing the game down? If anything it does the opposite since you need to think when to use the skill instead of having it pretty much always off cooldown. And it the skill gets baited out you have to deal with the repercussions of being baited / outplayed in that moment instead of not really being punished since the skill will be back up before you know it.

It just makes the game more boring and a snoozefest.

Look at Druid. The cooldown for CA got doubled and it made the spec very one-dimensional and mind-numbing to play. Look at elite skills. Elite skills with extremely high cooldowns have and will never be meta/used/viable.

The game being too fast paced because of high burst specs is completely different than the game being too fast paced because the cooldowns are "too low." Anet should adjust the actual numbers behind skills rather than the cooldowns. It's a lazy approach to balance and it doesn't work because reducing the frequency of strong skills doesn't actually address the problems.

For Druid, they increased the CD on CA from 10s to 15s because Druid reset potential was too high. What happened? Oh. They didn't actually address the reset potential from Celestial Shadow and Druidic Clarity so all they accomplished was making Druid zzZ to play.

Then what happened? Oh. They increased the cooldown again to 20s because they refused to just nerf the actual problems.

Then what happened? Oh. Druid's reset potential was still too high but now the spec played 2x slower than before and it made people want to fall asleep.

They did the same thing with Rampage and it finally got fixed when they decided to adjust the numbers rather than just increasing the cooldowns.

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storm.3120

storm.3120

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

on Daredevil is a 16s cd (traited) stunbreak, endurance regen, Pulmonary Impact proc on interrupt, 1.5s block, and the knockdown has both a lower cast time and lasts longer than the CC on GS4's Counterattack Kick.Not even close. One is a weapon skill and another utility slot, rofl. Ranger GS is literally busted and has everything -> evades,mobility, long block, CC's, spammable AOE damage (melee but still literally spams it)3s block channeling, 15s cd, EVADE->CC like fullcounter. Closest what I'd compare would be shield stance on warrior. There is literally no excuse to give anyone such busted skill and weapon to have everything at once

"Ranger GS is literally busted" LOL it can't trade with anything outside of GS4. Coming from someone who plays a class that can evade while CC'd that's rich.

I already said to nerf the block duration to 2 seconds, honestly 1.5 would still be fine. Just don't touch the cooldown and dumb down the game even more. There are so many classes with the ability to deal with blocks. Increasing the cooldown to 25 seconds is just ridiculous on a skill that can be baited out as easily as Full Counter and has even more ways to counterplay it.Like this exploit on gs autos was fixed and you were spamming threads how ranger is dead? :???Getting rid of obvious powercrept skill/exploits = DUMBING DOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN THE GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!1111p.s im not playing even ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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Ovark.2514

Ovark.2514

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:I think memetics play a role in this debacle.

  1. Boonbeast emerges. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  2. Boonbeast sustain takes enormous hits, as well as Sig of Stone nerf, Boonbeast disappears.

  3. Sic Em Soulbeast shows up. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  4. Worldy Impact gets nerfed. I blame @Ovark.2514 for being caught in a screenshot in EC, landing a 63k WI.

  5. Sic Em gets nerfed. kitten it was so strong. That's why there are so many Ranger mains with the Best Of The Best title right? Regardless, I actually advocated a lot of suggestions on how to nerf Sic Em. I admitted it was too strong for what it was.

  6. A plethora of incoming Druid nerfs hit like some wrath of god natural disaster, and then Druid was gone as if it had never lived. Still to this day I truly have no clue why Arenanet chose to look at this one profession and rather nerf it, they destroyed it.

While you're busy blaming me for things, you might as well add on Boonbeast since, from what I could tell, I was the only one using saimoth (whose plasma is essential for boonbeast) in ranked before it became popular.

Also, I have seen some pretty decent druids lately. Dunno if they are high plat or not, but the spec isn't dead.

Edit: Also, what is EC? Nevermind i got it.

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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

on Daredevil is a 16s cd (traited) stunbreak, endurance regen, Pulmonary Impact proc on interrupt, 1.5s block, and the knockdown has both a lower cast time and lasts longer than the CC on GS4's Counterattack Kick.Not even close. One is a weapon skill and another utility slot, rofl. Ranger GS is literally busted and has everything -> evades,mobility, long block, CC's, spammable AOE damage (melee but still literally spams it)3s block channeling, 15s cd, EVADE->CC like fullcounter. Closest what I'd compare would be shield stance on warrior. There is literally no excuse to give anyone such busted skill and weapon to have everything at once

"Ranger GS is literally busted" LOL it can't trade with anything outside of GS4. Coming from someone who plays a class that can evade while CC'd that's rich.

I already said to nerf the block duration to 2 seconds, honestly 1.5 would still be fine. Just don't touch the cooldown and dumb down the game even more. There are so many classes with the ability to deal with blocks. Increasing the cooldown to 25 seconds is just ridiculous on a skill that can be baited out as easily as Full Counter and has even more ways to counterplay it.Like this exploit on gs autos was fixed and you were spamming threads how ranger is dead? :???Getting rid of obvious powercrept skill/exploits = DUMBING DOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN THE GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!1111p.s im not playing even ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Ranger GS is a melee weapon that trades very poorly with almost everything. The only 2 reasons we were able to stand on node in a team fight or 1v1s on side nodes were due to the evades on the auto attacks and GS4's block. If GS4's cooldown gets doubled, ranger GS would be practically useless considering most other meta specs can pump out as much damage as a Maul crit every second or two.

Now, obviously you have trouble reading because you can't seem to comprehend the fact that I have listed several ranger nerfs that actually reduce the strength of the skills MORE than what Vallun proposed.

But yeah, if we're getting rid of obvious powercrept skills/exploits, let's remove Mirage's ability to dodge while CC'd, nerf Distortion/Desert Distortion and shatters because I'd say instant cast, high damage/hard CC abilities that mesmer receives for free are way more unhealthy than a 12s cooldown block tied to a 3/4s animation knockback.

Plus, if we increase cooldowns enough, then we won't have anything better to do than spam 1 which is what happened to Druid. Doesn't that sound like fun?

p.s. I'm not playing either ¯\(ツ)/¯

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storm.3120

storm.3120

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

on Daredevil is a 16s cd (traited) stunbreak, endurance regen, Pulmonary Impact proc on interrupt, 1.5s block, and the knockdown has both a lower cast time and lasts longer than the CC on GS4's Counterattack Kick.Not even close. One is a weapon skill and another utility slot, rofl. Ranger GS is literally busted and has everything -> evades,mobility, long block, CC's, spammable AOE damage (melee but still literally spams it)3s block channeling, 15s cd, EVADE->CC like fullcounter. Closest what I'd compare would be shield stance on warrior. There is literally no excuse to give anyone such busted skill and weapon to have everything at once

"Ranger GS is literally busted" LOL it can't trade with anything outside of GS4. Coming from someone who plays a class that can evade while CC'd that's rich.

I already said to nerf the block duration to 2 seconds, honestly 1.5 would still be fine. Just don't touch the cooldown and dumb down the game even more. There are so many classes with the ability to deal with blocks. Increasing the cooldown to 25 seconds is just ridiculous on a skill that can be baited out as easily as Full Counter and has even more ways to counterplay it.Like this exploit on gs autos was fixed and you were spamming threads how ranger is dead? :???Getting rid of obvious powercrept skill/exploits = DUMBING DOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN THE GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!1111p.s im not playing even ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Ranger GS is a melee weapon that trades very poorly with almost everything. The only 2 reasons we were able to stand on node in a team fight or 1v1s on side nodes were due to the evades on the auto attacks and GS4's block. If GS4's cooldown gets doubled, ranger GS would be practically useless considering most other meta specs can pump out as much damage as a Maul crit every second or two.

Now, obviously you have trouble reading because you can't seem to comprehend the fact that I have listed several ranger nerfs that actually reduce the strength of the skills MORE than what Vallun proposed.

But yeah, if we're getting rid of obvious powercrept skills/exploits, let's remove Mirage's ability to dodge while CC'd, nerf Distortion/Desert Distortion and shatters because I'd say instant cast, high damage/hard CC abilities that mesmer receives for free are way more unhealthy than a 12s cooldown block tied to a 3/4s animation knockback.

Plus, if we increase cooldowns enough, then we won't have anything better to do than spam 1 which is what happened to Druid. Doesn't that sound like fun?

p.s. I'm not playing either ¯\
(ツ)
/¯Ye, everyone do 5k+ autoattacks and average ttk is roughly 5 seconds by auto attacks only /sObsly I didnt read because didnt ask you for your "nerf suggestions". Changing topic onto another class to distract your own, how smart, no one ever done that ! (random nonsense complaints that arent even connected in any way ?).shatters because I'd say instant cast, high damage/hard CC abilities that mesmer receives for freeSo, basically, lets delete ranger pets, they get them for free ! They do high damage that other people have to avoid and spam CC's at their own will and have TWO of them with autoheal on swap ! The most busted thing is that they can use it even being dowend ! NO ONE CAN USE THEIR "features" being dead but ranger... cuz reasons.... ! The same goes for adrenaline/shroud/etc, they are all comes for "free" and therefore must be deleted wink-wink
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mortrialus.3062

mortrialus.3062

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Vallun.2071" said:Buff Swipe to 900 Range

Yeah, no. If anything should be happening to Swipe it should be it loses Unblockable so taking daredevil is an actual trade off, rather than this wishy washy "We know thieves will get TOO mad if it loses range so let's give them Unblockable on a skill that is already one of the most impactful and least counterplayable things in the game."

What? The unblockable part legitimately never matters, because it would be stupid to waste it on a blocking enemy (Which is the only time it ever matters).

What in the world are you talking about? Blocking is one of the few ways to prevent a thief from getting a steal off without literally climbing onto no port, and if you see the thief coming you probably need that one to two seconds of block to get on that jumping puzzle before they're already on top of you. Unblockable on swipe is never a waste because it's always doubled up with either the Daze Trait, or the traits that load steal with a lot of condition damage. The end result in an instant cast, animation free, unblockable interrupt, or an instant cast animation free 4k poison damage and enough confusion stacks to do 1.2k damage on skill use.

Like what in the world are you talking about unblockable steal is one of the most powerful things ever. Like imagine if Mantra of Distraction was unblockable. Plusing onto a warrior who is in Shield Block? Instantly interrupt it and end his block immediately and both you and the person who was already 1v1ing can burst the warrior. Plussing onto a condi mirage? As soon as you see the scepter block icon you steal an interrupt the block, negating all benefit from the skill including the counter attack. Steal is already impossible to avoid. It can only be botched by the thief themselves. Daredevil does not need unblockable on swipe. It is way too powerful.

Like in what dimension does that not matter? In what dimension is dazing or condition bombing through a block "a waste". Because it's clearly not this one.

Also, Daredevil already is an actual trade-off. Why do you think D/P became practically unplayable, while core S/D became the best build for a long time? Its not like the other classes where there is no reason to ever not use an elite spec, in thieves case you need to have a really good reason to use one.

Considering post rework we've gone from SD Core being Meta, to Staff Staff being meta, Condi Daredevil being meta, and now Sword Pistol Daredevil being Meta, the rework ended up being an undeserved massive net buff despite all the sour grapes about Swipe losing it's range.

Swipe should lose unblockable. Escapist's Fortitude deserves a 10 second cooldown. Considering the current Pistol Whip daredevil build has 50% uptime on evade frames, for every minute of combat you can potentially have 30 seconds of that be spent in evade frames, a consistent condition cleanse and healing every 1s is absurdly overtuned and always has been. Like compare prenerf Elusive Mind which was a condition cleanse, on active press of the dodge key. No other source of mirage cloak was cleansing.

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Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

  • Vallun wants to keep the 3 second block but increase the cooldown to 15 seconds. Result? 1/5 uptime on block, messes up muscle memory for rangers on a skill we've had since release.
  • I want to lower the block to 2 seconds and leave the cooldown at 12 seconds. Result? 1/6 uptime on block, muscle memory stays the same.

It's possible to reduce the effectiveness of abilities without changing the pace of the game and the way the classes play.

lol. everyone with a brain knows that a shorter duration block with a shorter cd is better then a longer duration block with a longer cd. stop trying to make it seem like you're getting the short end of the stick.

This.

I don't have any stakes in this discussion, but any person who argues that block uptime relative to skill cool down length makes no difference in relation to overall cool down is either a moron, heavily biased, or both.

Obviously cool down duration is a significant factor on its own and a lower cool down, even at significantly reduced block uptime, is still way more valuable. It allows for a better distribution of block uptime versus one long block paired with a heavy cool down, which does not allow an as free distribution. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out...

As far as muscle memory being a factor for balance.... yeah not even going to take that one serious.

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Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

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@Ovark.2514 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:I think memetics play a role in this debacle.

  1. Boonbeast emerges. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  2. Boonbeast sustain takes enormous hits, as well as Sig of Stone nerf, Boonbeast disappears.

  3. Sic Em Soulbeast shows up. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  4. Worldy Impact gets nerfed. I blame @Ovark.2514 for being caught in a screenshot in EC, landing a 63k WI.

  5. Sic Em gets nerfed. kitten it was so strong. That's why there are so many Ranger mains with the Best Of The Best title right? Regardless, I actually advocated a lot of suggestions on how to nerf Sic Em. I admitted it was too strong for what it was.

  6. A plethora of incoming Druid nerfs hit like some wrath of god natural disaster, and then Druid was gone as if it had never lived. Still to this day I truly have no clue why Arenanet chose to look at this one profession and rather nerf it, they destroyed it.

While you're busy blaming me for things, you might as well add on Boonbeast since, from what I could tell, I was the only one using saimoth (whose plasma is essential for boonbeast) in ranked before it became popular.

Also, I have seen some pretty decent druids lately. Dunno if they are high plat or not, but the spec isn't dead.

Edit: Also, what is EC? Nevermind i got it.

Blaming you was a joke for the purpose of bringing up that strike. 63k is the best single strike ever capture in spvp. But seriously though, I think kids freaked out when seeing that screenshot lol.

And these Druid players lately are spawning from a video that I had made, right before Druid was hit with wrath of god apocalypse nerfing. I know most of the players you're talking about, it's the same guys who whisper me trying to compare their Druid builds to mine. I'll guarantee you that 9 out of 10 of these Druid players you're seeing aren't even reaching a bottom plat 1 level. And I'll guarantee you that none of them are plat 2+. Druid builds really are bad man. Comparatively what's going on is that where a Druid has to wear Mender or Harrier to achieve heal output with CA Kit which destroys its DPS, other classes can match that self sustain while wearing DPS amulets and having quite seriously 4x the damage output or more.

I've already well explained the meat of the problem with Druid in several other threads. Here are a couple I could find:

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Dantheman.3589

Dantheman.3589

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The thief part is pure gold. Great section, but I’m gonna add a for fun suggestion- make mug able to crit, this could be balanced by lowering the power coefficient to even a 1/3 or if you want the power coefficient to be close to original such as 2/3 just get rid of the unblockable. This on top of other suggestions will make thief so much more fun.

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Ovark.2514

Ovark.2514

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I think memetics play a role in this debacle.

  1. Boonbeast emerges. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  2. Boonbeast sustain takes enormous hits, as well as Sig of Stone nerf, Boonbeast disappears.

  3. Sic Em Soulbeast shows up. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  4. Worldy Impact gets nerfed. I blame @Ovark.2514 for being caught in a screenshot in EC, landing a 63k WI.

  5. Sic Em gets nerfed. kitten it was so strong. That's why there are so many Ranger mains with the Best Of The Best title right? Regardless, I actually advocated a lot of suggestions on how to nerf Sic Em. I admitted it was too strong for what it was.

  6. A plethora of incoming Druid nerfs hit like some wrath of god natural disaster, and then Druid was gone as if it had never lived. Still to this day I truly have no clue why Arenanet chose to look at this one profession and rather nerf it, they destroyed it.

While you're busy blaming me for things, you might as well add on Boonbeast since, from what I could tell, I was the only one using saimoth (whose plasma is essential for boonbeast) in ranked before it became popular.

Also, I have seen some pretty decent druids lately. Dunno if they are high plat or not, but the spec isn't dead.

Edit: Also, what is EC? Nevermind i got it.

Blaming you was a joke for the purpose of bringing up that strike. 63k is the best single strike ever capture in spvp. But seriously though, I think kids freaked out when seeing that screenshot lol.

And these Druid players lately are spawning from a video that I had made, right before Druid was hit with wrath of god apocalypse nerfing. I know most of the players you're talking about, it's the same guys who whisper me trying to compare their Druid builds to mine. I'll guarantee you that 9 out of 10 of these Druid players you're seeing aren't even reaching a bottom plat 1 level. And I'll guarantee you that none of them are plat 2+. Druid builds really are bad man. Comparatively what's going on is that where a Druid has to wear Mender or Harrier to achieve heal output with CA Kit which destroys its DPS, other classes can match that self sustain while wearing DPS amulets and having quite seriously 4x the damage output or more.

I've already well explained the meat of the problem with Druid in several other threads. Here are a couple I could find:

Ah. I wouldn't be surprised though if the screen shot and subsequent thread was the impetus behind the nerf. As far as Druid is concerned, after Signet of the Wild got changed, I no longer care about druid in the slightest. I wouldn't be surprised if you were the cause of the resurgence.

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bravan.3876

bravan.3876

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

What? The unblockable part legitimately never matters, because it would be stupid to waste it on a blocking enemy (Which is the only time it ever matters).

Your sentence i read like: Unblockable never matters except when the target blocks, then it is the only time it matters... that sounds like pretty funny nonsense.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

What? The unblockable part legitimately never matters, because it would be stupid to waste it on a blocking enemy (Which is the only time it ever matters).

Please what?

Whats so confusing about it? Your Swipe is a key interrupt cooldown. Especially in S/P builds where your interrupts are otherwise inefficient (headshot) or slow to use (Pistol Whip). You want to use it to stop their big hits, or healing skills, or whatever. You really dont want to waste it on a block, because they cant hit you back, and theyre just delaying you. Well, unless theyre already close to death, but at that point you might as well just wait a couple seconds.

Also ofc it is a big advantage that you can steal into blocks, do you have any clue how hard you can kitten up defensive rotations with it? Maybe we just play different (/s) but if i see someone block with me having Swipe not on cd its my most loved moment to use it (also what @mortrialus.3062 said) . In my view an instant range skill should never be unblockable. Just give it more range as compensation for removing the unblockable and the skill will be more balanced and less clunky in one step.

But seems like Anet is on the way to destroy each elite spec with this nonsense trade off kitten and make them unfun, clunky and killing gameplay flow without even adding any skill ceiling or floor during that (in case of Swipe even quite the opposite). Hopefully that is happening because of a planned xpac to sell the new not clunky, not unfun and then only playable elite specs and not just out of incompetence...

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Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

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@Ovark.2514 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I think memetics play a role in this debacle.

  1. Boonbeast emerges. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  2. Boonbeast sustain takes enormous hits, as well as Sig of Stone nerf, Boonbeast disappears.

  3. Sic Em Soulbeast shows up. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  4. Worldy Impact gets nerfed. I blame @Ovark.2514 for being caught in a screenshot in EC, landing a 63k WI.

  5. Sic Em gets nerfed. kitten it was so strong. That's why there are so many Ranger mains with the Best Of The Best title right? Regardless, I actually advocated a lot of suggestions on how to nerf Sic Em. I admitted it was too strong for what it was.

  6. A plethora of incoming Druid nerfs hit like some wrath of god natural disaster, and then Druid was gone as if it had never lived. Still to this day I truly have no clue why Arenanet chose to look at this one profession and rather nerf it, they destroyed it.

While you're busy blaming me for things, you might as well add on Boonbeast since, from what I could tell, I was the only one using saimoth (whose plasma is essential for boonbeast) in ranked before it became popular.

Also, I have seen some pretty decent druids lately. Dunno if they are high plat or not, but the spec isn't dead.

Edit: Also, what is EC? Nevermind i got it.

Blaming you was a joke for the purpose of bringing up that strike. 63k is the best single strike ever capture in spvp. But seriously though, I think kids freaked out when seeing that screenshot lol.

And these Druid players lately are spawning from a video that I had made, right before Druid was hit with wrath of god apocalypse nerfing. I know most of the players you're talking about, it's the same guys who whisper me trying to compare their Druid builds to mine. I'll guarantee you that 9 out of 10 of these Druid players you're seeing aren't even reaching a bottom plat 1 level. And I'll guarantee you that none of them are plat 2+. Druid builds really are bad man. Comparatively what's going on is that where a Druid has to wear Mender or Harrier to achieve heal output with CA Kit which destroys its DPS, other classes can match that self sustain while wearing DPS amulets and having quite seriously 4x the damage output or more.

I've already well explained the meat of the problem with Druid in several other threads. Here are a couple I could find:

Ah. I wouldn't be surprised though if the screen shot and subsequent thread was the impetus behind the nerf. As far as Druid is concerned, after Signet of the Wild got changed, I no longer care about druid in the slightest. I wouldn't be surprised if you were the cause of the resurgence.

You know, I thought about it and this is actually a better "in a nutshell" summary of quite exactly what is wrong with Druid today:

There are 2 primary mechanical issues with Druid:

  1. Not only has the CA Kit been heavily heavily nerfed over the years, but DPS has clearly received large power creep across all classes. The CA Kit is not like other classes, who largely for the most part in this patching, have A LOT of passive sustain. Whether it is regen, or traits with effects like regen that stack with regen, or traits that heal so and so amount during an evade or whenever you receive a boon, ect ect, it's a lot of passive sustain that just works while you play normally. This allows those classes to maintain offensive pressure while healing and to never really have to enter a defensive cycle unless they are planning to straight disengage and leave. the Druid CA Kit on the other hand, requires that you stop all offensive pressure and dedicate time and combos to benefit some amount of healing. Which is completely useless after all of the CA Kit nerfs and how much DPS has been power crept. There is no amount of healing during CA Kit, even while wearing Mender or Harrier with an Altruism Rune, that is worth stopping all offensive pressure to attempt to use. This is because something like a Holosmith that is even just #1 spamming you, is dealing a lot more damage ouput than you are healing. So this creates an effect where any beneficial healing that comes off CA Kit, is pretty much this: "Pop CA #3 on a water field, quickly turn off your CA to get stealth disengage for reposition." If you don't do this, you spend too much time in CA Kit and too much time revealed while being a punching bag as you try to heal, because you have no offensive pressure, rendering the heal output useless. The only thing the Druid can do is sneaky pop that #3 and stealth to reposition. This means that the CA Kit isn't so much about healing anymore, but more so the 13 condi clear and stealth disengage. That is really the primary purpose of CA Kit usage during this patching. The Druid like everything else, is benefitting MOST of its healing, from passive sources, command regens, rugged growth, troll unguent use. What this means is that the CA Kit is countered by every single other Kit in the game. The only thing it is good for, is running for disengage/reposition. Druid no longer functions like old HoT Bunkers. It no longer has the burst heal output required to stay in position and brawl against this power crept meta, and even if it tries, it has no offensive pressure while using the kit.
  2. The other problem is how CA Kit works. Not only is it on twice as long of a CD as a Forge or Shroud, but it requires a full tank to even activate. CA Kit can't just turn on with half a charge. The CA Kit gains a bit of fuel from attacking but this isn't nearly enough. The bulk of its fuel comes from heal ticks. To be able to even reliably activate CA Kit when you need it, it needs to be able to cycle quickly enough to actually put that 13 condi clear and stealth reposition to use. The only way to achieve this is with command regens and rugged growth, in conjunction with very specifically troll unguent. So the Druid, to even make CA Kit viable at all, is pigeonholed into Wilderness Survival and Beast Mastery. <- This is why Druids don't have damage, because they MUST use these trait lines for CA Kit to work. Now we have the 2nd part of this problem, which is the question of: "Do I care if my Druid has very low heal in CA Kit? Do I just mostly care about the 13 condi clear and free stealth?" Well, after all of the CA Kit nearing, even the CA Kit #3 is very poor self heal without some source of heal stat. If the Druid wants to benefit any healing output at all with the CA Kit, it has to wear at least an Altruism Rune, if it's attempting to run some kind of DPS on the Druid. And that +300 or w/e it is heal stat is like the bare minimum heal stat required to make CA Kit heal usage in some way useful. Remember, that CA Kit is ACTIVE USE KIT, not passive sustain. So to make such a kit useful while dropping all offensive pressure, requires quite a dedication to heal stat, if you plan on using the skills in it. If the Druid decides to bail on heal stat and go DPS, only using CA Kit to benefit condi clear and stealth reposition, he still faces the dilemma that the CA Kit usage isn't practical without command regens, rugged growth, and troll unguent to refill & cycle the full bar quickly enough. So even when a Druid is DPS, he still has to run Wilderness/Beast Mastery. Which generally leads to a Druid player recognizing that there is no reason to run DPS when the CA Kit is pretty much forcing the use of defensive trait lines to be functional. <- This is why Druids don't have damage.

But yeah, that's the 2 main problems. 1) CA Kit is too nerfed for an active skill use kit in a DPS power crept game where everything else has enormous passive sustain. 2) The mechanics of CA Kit require those heal ticks to fill its bar for use in a practical time frame, which forces the use of Wilderness/Beastmastery for the kit to be viable at all. Which seriously limits what the Druid can do in terms of finding ways to get DPS output, while still keeping the functionality of its kit viable. What Arenanet should do, is make 0 heal stat heals from CA Kit HIGHER, and then lower the coefficient gains from wearing heal stat amulets. This way Druids can organize for more DPS output, but can't build around being a solid 1v2 Bunker so easily.

Before we get to "I've seen some good high damage Condi Druids or maybe even power Druids" I dunno about that. I think what people are seeing is when a Druid is being ignored for the most part in the match, because it is the least of the team's worries, and so he is actually being allowed to fill his CA Kit at a slow pace. Then someone goes around a corner or something and tries to engage it on a side node, after the first 3+ minutes of the match after it finally has its CA Kit full. In this event, a Skirmishing/Sage Condi Druid will have a short opening to launch an aggressive play on you because his CA Kit happens to be full, and so he has an opening to bomb you and stealth disengage to get away with it. Or if it was a GS Axe/Axe wielding Druid, he'll be able to go in for a Soulbeast like burst and be able to stealth disengage once to get away with it, before it's going to take him an inordinate amount of time to refill that bar again. But I am absolutely guaranteeing you, that if you were to try and 1v1 these Druid builds like this, you'd notice that the normal average encounter with them, will result in you being able to kill the Druid before it ever gets to use its CA Kit even once. <- And this is why Druids get pigeonholed into Wilderness/Beastmaster for that regen, growth, troll.

Telling you right now that anyone who runs Druid without Wilderness/Beastmastery is hindering themselves. If they want to stray from these mechanics, they will have a much stronger performance in every way by running Core or Soulbeast. Any Druid spec that is not Wilderness/Beastmastery is garbage compared to Core/Soulbeast. This really is unfortunately true. And even Wilderness/Beastmastery variants, just don't perform well after pet nerf and Ancestral Grace nuke. If we can get a bit of nerfing to DPS power creep and/or buffing to Druid in general, it could be a contender again. But as of now, the class is completely mechanically and statistically impaired compared to other Bruiser specs that exist right now.

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Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

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Thanks for the feedback, but it would probably be better for players and the devs if you posted an organized text of suggestions instead of an hour long video.

Also, while scanning through, I noticed that you pick a couple things on each profession to discuss, and I guess that’s ok, but you are missing the larger issues entirely. Essentially you are attempting to “balance” specific things and not looking at the underlying problems, so nothing is really shifted into a positive direction. And that’s the exact same level of balance we have had up to this point that hasn’t gotten us to a better state. If you follow along with what CMC is saying, then you’ll notice he is talking about some large, and more meaningful, changes to set the foundation for going forward... Not really about a particular skill or skills, but how things function on a wider scale... Example, not having Hard Condition skills doing a lot of damage...

Long story short, you’re not looking at the bigger pictures from what I saw, you’re looking to make changes that don’t tackle major issues that we have had since launch. Your ideas keep professions and combat in the same cyclical patterns.

Edit- From 2014, and much of it still applies to GW2 today... Not much has really changed for the better yet, but let’s hope CMC and the team can steer the ship in a better direction...

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/PvX-Balance-Iteration-Wrongdoing

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Ovark.2514

Ovark.2514

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I think memetics play a role in this debacle.

  1. Boonbeast emerges. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  2. Boonbeast sustain takes enormous hits, as well as Sig of Stone nerf, Boonbeast disappears.

  3. Sic Em Soulbeast shows up. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  4. Worldy Impact gets nerfed. I blame @Ovark.2514 for being caught in a screenshot in EC, landing a 63k WI.

  5. Sic Em gets nerfed. kitten it was so strong. That's why there are so many Ranger mains with the Best Of The Best title right? Regardless, I actually advocated a lot of suggestions on how to nerf Sic Em. I admitted it was too strong for what it was.

  6. A plethora of incoming Druid nerfs hit like some wrath of god natural disaster, and then Druid was gone as if it had never lived. Still to this day I truly have no clue why Arenanet chose to look at this one profession and rather nerf it, they destroyed it.

While you're busy blaming me for things, you might as well add on Boonbeast since, from what I could tell, I was the only one using saimoth (whose plasma is essential for boonbeast) in ranked before it became popular.

Also, I have seen some pretty decent druids lately. Dunno if they are high plat or not, but the spec isn't dead.

Edit: Also, what is EC? Nevermind i got it.

Blaming you was a joke for the purpose of bringing up that strike. 63k is the best single strike ever capture in spvp. But seriously though, I think kids freaked out when seeing that screenshot lol.

And these Druid players lately are spawning from a video that I had made, right before Druid was hit with wrath of god apocalypse nerfing. I know most of the players you're talking about, it's the same guys who whisper me trying to compare their Druid builds to mine. I'll guarantee you that 9 out of 10 of these Druid players you're seeing aren't even reaching a bottom plat 1 level. And I'll guarantee you that none of them are plat 2+. Druid builds really are bad man. Comparatively what's going on is that where a Druid has to wear Mender or Harrier to achieve heal output with CA Kit which destroys its DPS, other classes can match that self sustain while wearing DPS amulets and having quite seriously 4x the damage output or more.

I've already well explained the meat of the problem with Druid in several other threads. Here are a couple I could find:

Ah. I wouldn't be surprised though if the screen shot and subsequent thread was the impetus behind the nerf. As far as Druid is concerned, after Signet of the Wild got changed, I no longer care about druid in the slightest. I wouldn't be surprised if you were the cause of the resurgence.

You know, I thought about it and this is actually a better "in a nutshell" summary of quite exactly what is wrong with Druid today:

There are 2 primary mechanical issues with Druid:
  1. Not only has the CA Kit been heavily heavily nerfed over the years, but DPS has clearly received large power creep across all classes. The CA Kit is not like other classes, who largely for the most part in this patching, have A LOT of passive sustain. Whether it is regen, or traits with effects like regen that stack with regen, or traits that heal so and so amount during an evade or whenever you receive a boon, ect ect, it's a lot of passive sustain that just works while you play normally. This allows those classes to maintain offensive pressure while healing and to never really have to enter a defensive cycle unless they are planning to straight disengage and leave. the Druid CA Kit on the other hand, requires that you stop all offensive pressure and dedicate time and combos to benefit some amount of healing. Which is completely useless after all of the CA Kit nerfs and how much DPS has been power crept. There is no amount of healing during CA Kit, even while wearing Mender or Harrier with an Altruism Rune, that is worth stopping all offensive pressure to attempt to use. This is because something like a Holosmith that is even just #1 spamming you, is dealing a lot more damage ouput than you are healing. So this creates an effect where any beneficial healing that comes off CA Kit, is pretty much this: "Pop CA #3 on a water field, quickly turn off your CA to get stealth disengage for reposition." If you don't do this, you spend too much time in CA Kit and too much time revealed while being a punching bag as you try to heal, because you have no offensive pressure, rendering the heal output useless. The only thing the Druid can do is sneaky pop that #3 and stealth to reposition. This means that the CA Kit isn't so much about healing anymore, but more so the 13 condi clear and stealth disengage. That is really the primary purpose of CA Kit usage during this patching. The Druid like everything else, is benefitting MOST of its healing, from passive sources, command regens, rugged growth, troll unguent use.
    What this means is that the CA Kit is countered by every single other Kit in the game. The only thing it is good for, is running for disengage/reposition. Druid no longer functions like old HoT Bunkers. It no longer has the burst heal output required to stay in position and brawl against this power crept meta, and even if it tries, it has no offensive pressure while using the kit.
  2. The other problem is how CA Kit works. Not only is it on twice as long of a CD as a Forge or Shroud, but it requires a full tank to even activate. CA Kit can't just turn on with half a charge. The CA Kit gains a bit of fuel from attacking but this isn't nearly enough. The bulk of its fuel comes from heal ticks. To be able to even reliably activate CA Kit when you need it, it needs to be able to cycle quickly enough to actually put that 13 condi clear and stealth reposition to use. The only way to achieve this is with command regens and rugged growth, in conjunction with very specifically troll unguent. So the Druid, to even make CA Kit viable at all, is pigeonholed into Wilderness Survival and Beast Mastery. <- This is why Druids don't have damage, because they MUST use these trait lines for CA Kit to work. Now we have the 2nd part of this problem, which is the question of: "Do I care if my Druid has very low heal in CA Kit? Do I just mostly care about the 13 condi clear and free stealth?" Well, after all of the CA Kit nearing, even the CA Kit #3 is very poor self heal without some source of heal stat. If the Druid wants to benefit any healing output at all with the CA Kit, it has to wear at least an Altruism Rune, if it's attempting to run some kind of DPS on the Druid. And that +300 or w/e it is heal stat is like the bare minimum heal stat required to make CA Kit heal usage in some way useful. Remember, that CA Kit is ACTIVE USE KIT, not passive sustain. So to make such a kit useful while dropping all offensive pressure, requires quite a dedication to heal stat, if you plan on using the skills in it. If the Druid decides to bail on heal stat and go DPS, only using CA Kit to benefit condi clear and stealth reposition, he still faces the dilemma that the CA Kit usage isn't practical without command regens, rugged growth, and troll unguent to refill & cycle the full bar quickly enough. So even when a Druid is DPS, he still has to run Wilderness/Beast Mastery. Which generally leads to a Druid player recognizing that there is no reason to run DPS when the CA Kit is pretty much forcing the use of defensive trait lines to be functional. <- This is why Druids don't have damage.

But yeah, that's the 2 main problems. 1) CA Kit is too nerfed for an active skill use kit in a DPS power crept game where everything else has enormous passive sustain. 2) The mechanics of CA Kit require those heal ticks to fill its bar for use in a practical time frame, which forces the use of Wilderness/Beastmastery for the kit to be viable at all. Which seriously limits what the Druid can do in terms of finding ways to get DPS output, while still keeping the functionality of its kit viable.
What Arenanet should do, is make 0 heal stat heals from CA Kit HIGHER, and then lower the coefficient gains from wearing heal stat amulets. This way Druids can organize for more DPS output, but can't build around being a solid 1v2 Bunker so easily.

Before we get to "I've seen some good high damage Condi Druids or maybe even power Druids" I dunno about that. I think what people are seeing is when a Druid is being ignored for the most part in the match, because it is the least of the team's worries, and so he is actually being allowed to fill his CA Kit at a slow pace. Then someone goes around a corner or something and tries to engage it on a side node, after the first 3+ minutes of the match after it finally has its CA Kit full. In this event, a Skirmishing/Sage Condi Druid will have a short opening to launch an aggressive play on you because his CA Kit happens to be full, and so he has an opening to bomb you and stealth disengage to get away with it. Or if it was a GS Axe/Axe wielding Druid, he'll be able to go in for a Soulbeast like burst and be able to stealth disengage once to get away with it, before it's going to take him an inordinate amount of time to refill that bar again. But I am absolutely guaranteeing you, that if you were to try and 1v1 these Druid builds like this, you'd notice that the normal average encounter with them, will result in you being able to kill the Druid before it ever gets to use its CA Kit even once. <- And this is why Druids get pigeonholed into Wilderness/Beastmaster for that regen, growth, troll.

Telling you right now that anyone who runs Druid without Wilderness/Beastmastery is hindering themselves. If they want to stray from these mechanics, they will have a much stronger performance in every way by running Core or Soulbeast. Any Druid spec that is not Wilderness/Beastmastery is garbage compared to Core/Soulbeast. This really is unfortunately true. And even Wilderness/Beastmastery variants, just don't perform well after pet nerf and Ancestral Grace nuke. If we can get a bit of nerfing to DPS power creep and/or buffing to Druid in general, it could be a contender again. But as of now, the class is completely mechanically and statistically impaired compared to other Bruiser specs that exist right now.

Nice essay. Druid is a healing elite spec so it's not my style. As a slight sidenote though, I think druid is long overdue for trait overhauls. It's unacceptable in my eyes that 2/3 of the trait choices are not actually choices at all. You HAVE to take the stealth AND the condi clense trait to do anything in sPVP. But then again there are no traitlines in the whole game I wouldn't change if I had my way. . . :P

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shadowpass.4236

shadowpass.4236

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

on Daredevil is a 16s cd (traited) stunbreak, endurance regen, Pulmonary Impact proc on interrupt, 1.5s block, and the knockdown has both a lower cast time and lasts longer than the CC on GS4's Counterattack Kick.Not even close. One is a weapon skill and another utility slot, rofl. Ranger GS is literally busted and has everything -> evades,mobility, long block, CC's, spammable AOE damage (melee but still literally spams it)3s block channeling, 15s cd, EVADE->CC like fullcounter. Closest what I'd compare would be shield stance on warrior. There is literally no excuse to give anyone such busted skill and weapon to have everything at once

"Ranger GS is literally busted" LOL it can't trade with anything outside of GS4. Coming from someone who plays a class that can evade while CC'd that's rich.

I already said to nerf the block duration to 2 seconds, honestly 1.5 would still be fine. Just don't touch the cooldown and dumb down the game even more. There are so many classes with the ability to deal with blocks. Increasing the cooldown to 25 seconds is just ridiculous on a skill that can be baited out as easily as Full Counter and has even more ways to counterplay it.Like this exploit on gs autos was fixed and you were spamming threads how ranger is dead? :???Getting rid of obvious powercrept skill/exploits = DUMBING DOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN THE GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!1111p.s im not playing even ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Ranger GS is a melee weapon that trades very poorly with almost everything. The only 2 reasons we were able to stand on node in a team fight or 1v1s on side nodes were due to the evades on the auto attacks and GS4's block. If GS4's cooldown gets doubled, ranger GS would be practically useless considering most other meta specs can pump out as much damage as a Maul crit every second or two.

Now, obviously you have trouble reading because you can't seem to comprehend the fact that I have listed several ranger nerfs that actually reduce the strength of the skills MORE than what Vallun proposed.

But yeah, if we're getting rid of obvious powercrept skills/exploits, let's remove Mirage's ability to dodge while CC'd, nerf Distortion/Desert Distortion and shatters because I'd say instant cast, high damage/hard CC abilities that mesmer receives for free are way more unhealthy than a 12s cooldown block tied to a 3/4s animation knockback.

Plus, if we increase cooldowns enough, then we won't have anything better to do than spam 1 which is what happened to Druid. Doesn't that sound like fun?

p.s. I'm not playing either ¯\
(ツ)
/¯Ye, everyone do 5k+ autoattacks and average ttk is roughly 5 seconds by auto attacks only /sObsly I didnt read because didnt ask you for your "nerf suggestions". Changing topic onto another class to distract your own, how smart, no one ever done that ! (random nonsense complaints that arent even connected in any way ?).shatters because I'd say instant cast, high damage/hard CC abilities that mesmer receives for freeSo, basically, lets delete ranger pets, they get them for free ! They do high damage that other people have to avoid and spam CC's at their own will and have TWO of them with autoheal on swap ! The most busted thing is that they can use it even being dowend ! NO ONE CAN USE THEIR "features" being dead but ranger... cuz reasons.... ! The same goes for adrenaline/shroud/etc, they are all comes for "free" and therefore must be deleted wink-wink

Maul has 1.5k base damage traited on meta demo. 189% crit damage = 2.8k damage crits on Maul. Generally with some buffs here and there, GS Mauls will hit for 3.4k every 3.25 seconds if the enemy doesn't dodge the gigantic, audibly roaring spirit bear.

In other words, if someone does more than 1k damage per second, they will probably end up out-trading ranger greatsword's Mauls. The autos are slow and weaker than other autos so we lose in that regard as well.

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Hylo.1968

Hylo.1968

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

Something that's also pretty overtuned is mantra mesmer being able to instantly oneshot from stealth on a short interval with zero tells.

Just reduce the spamability and make it Mantra of Distraction alike

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Axl.8924

Axl.8924

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I think memetics play a role in this debacle.

  1. Boonbeast emerges. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  2. Boonbeast sustain takes enormous hits, as well as Sig of Stone nerf, Boonbeast disappears.

  3. Sic Em Soulbeast shows up. kitten it's OP nerf it.

  4. Worldy Impact gets nerfed. I blame @Ovark.2514 for being caught in a screenshot in EC, landing a 63k WI.

  5. Sic Em gets nerfed. kitten it was so strong. That's why there are so many Ranger mains with the Best Of The Best title right? Regardless, I actually advocated a lot of suggestions on how to nerf Sic Em. I admitted it was too strong for what it was.

  6. A plethora of incoming Druid nerfs hit like some wrath of god natural disaster, and then Druid was gone as if it had never lived. Still to this day I truly have no clue why Arenanet chose to look at this one profession and rather nerf it, they destroyed it.

While you're busy blaming me for things, you might as well add on Boonbeast since, from what I could tell, I was the only one using saimoth (whose plasma is essential for boonbeast) in ranked before it became popular.

Also, I have seen some pretty decent druids lately. Dunno if they are high plat or not, but the spec isn't dead.

Edit: Also, what is EC? Nevermind i got it.

Blaming you was a joke for the purpose of bringing up that strike. 63k is the best single strike ever capture in spvp. But seriously though, I think kids freaked out when seeing that screenshot lol.

And these Druid players lately are spawning from a video that I had made, right before Druid was hit with wrath of god apocalypse nerfing. I know most of the players you're talking about, it's the same guys who whisper me trying to compare their Druid builds to mine. I'll guarantee you that 9 out of 10 of these Druid players you're seeing aren't even reaching a bottom plat 1 level. And I'll guarantee you that none of them are plat 2+. Druid builds really are bad man. Comparatively what's going on is that where a Druid has to wear Mender or Harrier to achieve heal output with CA Kit which destroys its DPS, other classes can match that self sustain while wearing DPS amulets and having quite seriously 4x the damage output or more.

I've already well explained the meat of the problem with Druid in several other threads. Here are a couple I could find:

Ah. I wouldn't be surprised though if the screen shot and subsequent thread was the impetus behind the nerf. As far as Druid is concerned, after Signet of the Wild got changed, I no longer care about druid in the slightest. I wouldn't be surprised if you were the cause of the resurgence.

You know, I thought about it and this is actually a better "in a nutshell" summary of quite exactly what is wrong with Druid today:

There are 2 primary mechanical issues with Druid:
  1. Not only has the CA Kit been heavily heavily nerfed over the years, but DPS has clearly received large power creep across all classes. The CA Kit is not like other classes, who largely for the most part in this patching, have A LOT of passive sustain. Whether it is regen, or traits with effects like regen that stack with regen, or traits that heal so and so amount during an evade or whenever you receive a boon, ect ect, it's a lot of passive sustain that just works while you play normally. This allows those classes to maintain offensive pressure while healing and to never really have to enter a defensive cycle unless they are planning to straight disengage and leave. the Druid CA Kit on the other hand, requires that you stop all offensive pressure and dedicate time and combos to benefit some amount of healing. Which is completely useless after all of the CA Kit nerfs and how much DPS has been power crept. There is no amount of healing during CA Kit, even while wearing Mender or Harrier with an Altruism Rune, that is worth stopping all offensive pressure to attempt to use. This is because something like a Holosmith that is even just #1 spamming you, is dealing a lot more damage ouput than you are healing. So this creates an effect where any beneficial healing that comes off CA Kit, is pretty much this: "Pop CA #3 on a water field, quickly turn off your CA to get stealth disengage for reposition." If you don't do this, you spend too much time in CA Kit and too much time revealed while being a punching bag as you try to heal, because you have no offensive pressure, rendering the heal output useless. The only thing the Druid can do is sneaky pop that #3 and stealth to reposition. This means that the CA Kit isn't so much about healing anymore, but more so the 13 condi clear and stealth disengage. That is really the primary purpose of CA Kit usage during this patching. The Druid like everything else, is benefitting MOST of its healing, from passive sources, command regens, rugged growth, troll unguent use.
    What this means is that the CA Kit is countered by every single other Kit in the game. The only thing it is good for, is running for disengage/reposition. Druid no longer functions like old HoT Bunkers. It no longer has the burst heal output required to stay in position and brawl against this power crept meta, and even if it tries, it has no offensive pressure while using the kit.
  2. The other problem is how CA Kit works. Not only is it on twice as long of a CD as a Forge or Shroud, but it requires a full tank to even activate. CA Kit can't just turn on with half a charge. The CA Kit gains a bit of fuel from attacking but this isn't nearly enough. The bulk of its fuel comes from heal ticks. To be able to even reliably activate CA Kit when you need it, it needs to be able to cycle quickly enough to actually put that 13 condi clear and stealth reposition to use. The only way to achieve this is with command regens and rugged growth, in conjunction with very specifically troll unguent. So the Druid, to even make CA Kit viable at all, is pigeonholed into Wilderness Survival and Beast Mastery. <- This is why Druids don't have damage, because they MUST use these trait lines for CA Kit to work. Now we have the 2nd part of this problem, which is the question of: "Do I care if my Druid has very low heal in CA Kit? Do I just mostly care about the 13 condi clear and free stealth?" Well, after all of the CA Kit nearing, even the CA Kit #3 is very poor self heal without some source of heal stat. If the Druid wants to benefit any healing output at all with the CA Kit, it has to wear at least an Altruism Rune, if it's attempting to run some kind of DPS on the Druid. And that +300 or w/e it is heal stat is like the bare minimum heal stat required to make CA Kit heal usage in some way useful. Remember, that CA Kit is ACTIVE USE KIT, not passive sustain. So to make such a kit useful while dropping all offensive pressure, requires quite a dedication to heal stat, if you plan on using the skills in it. If the Druid decides to bail on heal stat and go DPS, only using CA Kit to benefit condi clear and stealth reposition, he still faces the dilemma that the CA Kit usage isn't practical without command regens, rugged growth, and troll unguent to refill & cycle the full bar quickly enough. So even when a Druid is DPS, he still has to run Wilderness/Beast Mastery. Which generally leads to a Druid player recognizing that there is no reason to run DPS when the CA Kit is pretty much forcing the use of defensive trait lines to be functional. <- This is why Druids don't have damage.

But yeah, that's the 2 main problems. 1) CA Kit is too nerfed for an active skill use kit in a DPS power crept game where everything else has enormous passive sustain. 2) The mechanics of CA Kit require those heal ticks to fill its bar for use in a practical time frame, which forces the use of Wilderness/Beastmastery for the kit to be viable at all. Which seriously limits what the Druid can do in terms of finding ways to get DPS output, while still keeping the functionality of its kit viable.
What Arenanet should do, is make 0 heal stat heals from CA Kit HIGHER, and then lower the coefficient gains from wearing heal stat amulets. This way Druids can organize for more DPS output, but can't build around being a solid 1v2 Bunker so easily.

Before we get to "I've seen some good high damage Condi Druids or maybe even power Druids" I dunno about that. I think what people are seeing is when a Druid is being ignored for the most part in the match, because it is the least of the team's worries, and so he is actually being allowed to fill his CA Kit at a slow pace. Then someone goes around a corner or something and tries to engage it on a side node, after the first 3+ minutes of the match after it finally has its CA Kit full. In this event, a Skirmishing/Sage Condi Druid will have a short opening to launch an aggressive play on you because his CA Kit happens to be full, and so he has an opening to bomb you and stealth disengage to get away with it. Or if it was a GS Axe/Axe wielding Druid, he'll be able to go in for a Soulbeast like burst and be able to stealth disengage once to get away with it, before it's going to take him an inordinate amount of time to refill that bar again. But I am absolutely guaranteeing you, that if you were to try and 1v1 these Druid builds like this, you'd notice that the normal average encounter with them, will result in you being able to kill the Druid before it ever gets to use its CA Kit even once. <- And this is why Druids get pigeonholed into Wilderness/Beastmaster for that regen, growth, troll.

Telling you right now that anyone who runs Druid without Wilderness/Beastmastery is hindering themselves. If they want to stray from these mechanics, they will have a much stronger performance in every way by running Core or Soulbeast. Any Druid spec that is not Wilderness/Beastmastery is garbage compared to Core/Soulbeast. This really is unfortunately true. And even Wilderness/Beastmastery variants, just don't perform well after pet nerf and Ancestral Grace nuke. If we can get a bit of nerfing to DPS power creep and/or buffing to Druid in general, it could be a contender again. But as of now, the class is completely mechanically and statistically impaired compared to other Bruiser specs that exist right now.

Was healing potential nerfed as well for druid? because when i was healing i found i wasn't able to keep up with the damage some of the other guys did.

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Leonidrex.5649

Leonidrex.5649

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

on Daredevil is a 16s cd (traited) stunbreak, endurance regen, Pulmonary Impact proc on interrupt, 1.5s block, and the knockdown has both a lower cast time and lasts longer than the CC on GS4's Counterattack Kick.Not even close. One is a weapon skill and another utility slot, rofl. Ranger GS is literally busted and has everything -> evades,mobility, long block, CC's, spammable AOE damage (melee but still literally spams it)3s block channeling, 15s cd, EVADE->CC like fullcounter. Closest what I'd compare would be shield stance on warrior. There is literally no excuse to give anyone such busted skill and weapon to have everything at once

"Ranger GS is literally busted" LOL it can't trade with anything outside of GS4. Coming from someone who plays a class that can evade while CC'd that's rich.

I already said to nerf the block duration to 2 seconds, honestly 1.5 would still be fine. Just don't touch the cooldown and dumb down the game even more. There are so many classes with the ability to deal with blocks. Increasing the cooldown to 25 seconds is just ridiculous on a skill that can be baited out as easily as Full Counter and has even more ways to counterplay it.Like this exploit on gs autos was fixed and you were spamming threads how ranger is dead? :???Getting rid of obvious powercrept skill/exploits = DUMBING DOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN THE GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!1111p.s im not playing even ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Ranger GS is a melee weapon that trades very poorly with almost everything. The only 2 reasons we were able to stand on node in a team fight or 1v1s on side nodes were due to the evades on the auto attacks and GS4's block. If GS4's cooldown gets doubled, ranger GS would be practically useless considering most other meta specs can pump out as much damage as a Maul crit every second or two.

Now, obviously you have trouble reading because you can't seem to comprehend the fact that I have listed several ranger nerfs that actually reduce the strength of the skills MORE than what Vallun proposed.

But yeah, if we're getting rid of obvious powercrept skills/exploits, let's remove Mirage's ability to dodge while CC'd, nerf Distortion/Desert Distortion and shatters because I'd say instant cast, high damage/hard CC abilities that mesmer receives for free are way more unhealthy than a 12s cooldown block tied to a 3/4s animation knockback.

Plus, if we increase cooldowns enough, then we won't have anything better to do than spam 1 which is what happened to Druid. Doesn't that sound like fun?

p.s. I'm not playing either ¯\
(ツ)
/¯Ye, everyone do 5k+ autoattacks and average ttk is roughly 5 seconds by auto attacks only /sObsly I didnt read because didnt ask you for your "nerf suggestions". Changing topic onto another class to distract your own, how smart, no one ever done that ! (random nonsense complaints that arent even connected in any way ?).shatters because I'd say instant cast, high damage/hard CC abilities that mesmer receives for freeSo, basically, lets delete ranger pets, they get them for free ! They do high damage that other people have to avoid and spam CC's at their own will and have TWO of them with autoheal on swap ! The most busted thing is that they can use it even being dowend ! NO ONE CAN USE THEIR "features" being dead but ranger... cuz reasons.... ! The same goes for adrenaline/shroud/etc, they are all comes for "free" and therefore must be deleted wink-wink

Maul has 1.5k base damage traited on meta demo. 189% crit damage = 2.8k damage crits on Maul. Generally with some buffs here and there, GS Mauls will hit for 3.4k every 3.25 seconds if the enemy doesn't dodge the gigantic, audibly roaring spirit bear.

In other words, if someone does more than 1k damage per second, they will probably end up out-trading ranger greatsword's Mauls. The autos are slow and weaker than other autos so we lose in that regard as well.

I have a screenshot of 0 might soulbeast landing 20,5k maul on 0 vulnerability, demo amulet mesmer.Pretending that mault doesnt boom people for 10k+ with ease is just plain wrong.

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storm.3120

storm.3120

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Isnt ranger GS 4 the absolute best defensive cooldown in the game hands down? I just cant even find anything that comes remotly close to how overtuned that skill is.

on Daredevil is a 16s cd (traited) stunbreak, endurance regen, Pulmonary Impact proc on interrupt, 1.5s block, and the knockdown has both a lower cast time and lasts longer than the CC on GS4's Counterattack Kick.Not even close. One is a weapon skill and another utility slot, rofl. Ranger GS is literally busted and has everything -> evades,mobility, long block, CC's, spammable AOE damage (melee but still literally spams it)3s block channeling, 15s cd, EVADE->CC like fullcounter. Closest what I'd compare would be shield stance on warrior. There is literally no excuse to give anyone such busted skill and weapon to have everything at once

"Ranger GS is literally busted" LOL it can't trade with anything outside of GS4. Coming from someone who plays a class that can evade while CC'd that's rich.

I already said to nerf the block duration to 2 seconds, honestly 1.5 would still be fine. Just don't touch the cooldown and dumb down the game even more. There are so many classes with the ability to deal with blocks. Increasing the cooldown to 25 seconds is just ridiculous on a skill that can be baited out as easily as Full Counter and has even more ways to counterplay it.Like this exploit on gs autos was fixed and you were spamming threads how ranger is dead? :???Getting rid of obvious powercrept skill/exploits = DUMBING DOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN THE GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!1111p.s im not playing even ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Ranger GS is a melee weapon that trades very poorly with almost everything. The only 2 reasons we were able to stand on node in a team fight or 1v1s on side nodes were due to the evades on the auto attacks and GS4's block. If GS4's cooldown gets doubled, ranger GS would be practically useless considering most other meta specs can pump out as much damage as a Maul crit every second or two.

Now, obviously you have trouble reading because you can't seem to comprehend the fact that I have listed several ranger nerfs that actually reduce the strength of the skills MORE than what Vallun proposed.

But yeah, if we're getting rid of obvious powercrept skills/exploits, let's remove Mirage's ability to dodge while CC'd, nerf Distortion/Desert Distortion and shatters because I'd say instant cast, high damage/hard CC abilities that mesmer receives for free are way more unhealthy than a 12s cooldown block tied to a 3/4s animation knockback.

Plus, if we increase cooldowns enough, then we won't have anything better to do than spam 1 which is what happened to Druid. Doesn't that sound like fun?

p.s. I'm not playing either ¯\
(ツ)
/¯Ye, everyone do 5k+ autoattacks and average ttk is roughly 5 seconds by auto attacks only /sObsly I didnt read because didnt ask you for your "nerf suggestions". Changing topic onto another class to distract your own, how smart, no one ever done that ! (random nonsense complaints that arent even connected in any way ?).shatters because I'd say instant cast, high damage/hard CC abilities that mesmer receives for freeSo, basically, lets delete ranger pets, they get them for free ! They do high damage that other people have to avoid and spam CC's at their own will and have TWO of them with autoheal on swap ! The most busted thing is that they can use it even being dowend ! NO ONE CAN USE THEIR "features" being dead but ranger... cuz reasons.... ! The same goes for adrenaline/shroud/etc, they are all comes for "free" and therefore must be deleted wink-wink

Maul has 1.5k base damage traited on meta demo. 189% crit damage = 2.8k damage crits on Maul. Generally with some buffs here and there, GS Mauls will hit for 3.4k every 3.25 seconds if the enemy doesn't dodge the gigantic, audibly roaring spirit bear.

In other words, if someone does more than 1k damage per second, they will probably end up out-trading ranger greatsword's Mauls. The autos are slow and weaker than other autos so we lose in that regard as well.

I have a screenshot of 0 might soulbeast landing 20,5k maul on 0 vulnerability, demo amulet mesmer.Pretending that mault doesnt boom people for 10k+ with ease is just plain wrong.Damage modifiers that he omits to defend ranger but blows up numbers and present them in unrealistic conditions like "look it does crazy damage etc!11111 !"
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