Expansion: make or break?

[Blocki.4931]

None of those things are grinds, but ok

[White Kitsunee.4620]

I don't think this game has gone away from it's original path at all. All of the original pieces of the game are there, except for ascended armor, which even now is pretty easy to get.I do think this xpac is a bit make or break though, I think if this xpac sucks it will be a death nail for a lot of people.The xpac sucking is extremely unlikely though. So i'm very excited personally.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:Skyscale grind, ascended grind, legendary grind, elitist raids, a preview of elitist raids through strike missions, mobs with a billion HP in IbS.. Anyone feel like Guild Wars 2 is straying from its original direction? Will the next expansion revive the game or will it be the last straw?

What's going to make or break them is all the already existing bugs, the bad balance patches, the lack of addressing hackers, the bots, the in game lag, the lack of new content, the non-communication and all the other.

Really? if the game is here with all those things now ... what makes you think those things will break it when there is a new expansion?

Because if they don't address issues they have now, why would people spend money on an expansion? Ill will now, leads to lack of sales later.

Why? because they want the expansion ... didn't stop the playerbase from purchasing the last two. I mean, the things you list aren't new ... so to think that all this doom and gloom will break the 3rd expansion but didn't the first two is just hopeful on your part. Really, saying things like that ... it's just desperate and empty threats.

Point is we purchased the last two, because back then these issues were NOT as pronounced as they are now. But I wont purchase another PoF and I sure as heck wont purchase a glorified living world despite wanting an expansion. They need big and new things, they need more oomph because right now there is not a SINGLE thing they could add that would make me spend money, not cosmetics and not legendary armory stuff. It will make or break the game for many of us, and likely they know that. At the end of the day it depends on what they want the game to be, and at this stage im not sure they know what they want it to be..

Im hesitant to have faith, or believe EoD will be good... PoF wasn't and objectively despite how I love HoT it wasn't very good either...

[Fueki.4753]

For many players, whether the expansion blows in fresh wind into the game or keeps it stale depends on the new elite specializations and how the change the ways professions can be played. And that is assuming we get any new ones at all.

I doubt they grindiness of the Grindbrood Saga, which milks player time by mindless repetition (like 20 of the same event in Bjora or the over 9000 meta runs in for all Charr commendation and the otters), will stay in EoD.As for the story, it will probably doable in two to three days for anyone without a job and then it's waiting another 3 to four months for LS season 6.

So, aside from elite specializations, there will probably be nothing that shakes up the game.We will see a temporary rise in player numbers but afterwards the player numbers will continue to slowly dwindle away again.

[Obtena.7952]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

Why? because they want the expansion ... didn't stop the playerbase from purchasing the last two. I mean, the things you list aren't new ... so to think that all this doom and gloom will break the 3rd expansion but didn't the first two is just hopeful on your part. Really, saying things like that ... it's just desperate and empty threats.

No, its sharing an opinion of a consumer. I don't have to give them a dime if I choose not to. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

OK ... it still comes across desperate and empty considering the things you complain about didn't break expansions 1 and 2 ... so the idea it breaks 3 is just some bad scare tactic. And yes, when you say you won't purchase something because of issues you have with the game ... that is BOTH a fact and a threat.

[Obtena.7952]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:Skyscale grind, ascended grind, legendary grind, elitist raids, a preview of elitist raids through strike missions, mobs with a billion HP in IbS.. Anyone feel like Guild Wars 2 is straying from its original direction? Will the next expansion revive the game or will it be the last straw?

What's going to make or break them is all the already existing bugs, the bad balance patches, the lack of addressing hackers, the bots, the in game lag, the lack of new content, the non-communication and all the other.

Really? if the game is here with all those things now ... what makes you think those things will break it when there is a new expansion?

Because if they don't address issues they have now, why would people spend money on an expansion? Ill will now, leads to lack of sales later.

Why? because they want the expansion ... didn't stop the playerbase from purchasing the last two. I mean, the things you list aren't new ... so to think that all this doom and gloom will break the 3rd expansion but didn't the first two is just hopeful on your part. Really, saying things like that ... it's just desperate and empty threats.

Point is we purchased the last two, because back then these issues were NOT as pronounced as they are now. But I wont purchase another PoF and I sure as heck wont purchase a glorified living world despite wanting an expansion. They need big and new things, they need more oomph because right now there is not a SINGLE thing they could add that would make me spend money, not cosmetics and not legendary armory stuff. It will make or break the game for many of us, and likely they know that. At the end of the day it depends on what they want the game to be, and at this stage im not sure they know what they want it to be..

Im hesitant to have faith, or believe EoD will be good... PoF wasn't and objectively despite how I love HoT it wasn't very good either...

OK ... but no one is discussing why YOU or HIM won't purchase it. The fact is that the things he brought up ... it's likely the average GW2 gamer could care less about those things and will buy the expansion regardless. Truth is that those issues are pretty minor to most of the players in this game. Weak scare tactics dude. People that want content aren't going to concern themselves with philosophical pedantics about what Anet wants the game to be as part of their decision to purchase. I mean, I don't even get that comment ... it's pretty clear what the game is and what Anet wants it to be. If you think its still up in the air, then you need to review the game history better to understand it.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Mortifera.6138 said:Will the next expansion revive the game or will it be the last straw?

@Obtena.7952 said:No, threat can also witholding something as well. You point about how you personally feel has nothing to do with the topic of a general make or break of the expansion, which is why I'm questioning your content in this thread. Expansion isn't going to break because of the things you dislike about the game, even if other people feel the same way.

Again, we will agree to disagree on word choice, you aren't going to convince me, I am not going to convince you.

If you take the OP as meaning for everyone at the same time I would agree with you. People not liking issues in the expansion will not cause the game to fail in a day. When you come down from the macro level and focus on the individual transactions, yes issues in game, be them old or new will impact people's perception of the value of the game as will the new content. When ever a player decides to stop playing for whatever reason, they have the option to come back but they may not. So in the definition of 'last straw', yes that can occur to individual players when they encounter issues they feel are not addressed and when content that is released is not content they were looking for. So in that sense, yes the game could fail for them. I agree that doesn't mean it will for another, but for that player that hit that point, it would for them.

I come at most threads thinking of individuals, not enmasse for all players since I think most people on the forums will agree we are all just a sampling of all the non-posters but we don't know what they think. Personally I would expect an influx as we always see with expansions. But as they go code dark to buckle down and work on new stuff, existing issues will just linger and that will also wear on people. That can affect decisions of future purchases. But that will be for each person to decide.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Obtena.7952 said:

I am giving Anet time to address.

[Fallesafe.5932]

I'll never understand complaining (for years) about the "grind" to get ascended gear, the skyscale, etc... instead of spending one week to just go get them. It's so ridiculous lol.

[Teratus.2859]

The only make or break aspect of the next expansion I can see being possible is if End of Dragons doesn't deliver the big content dump that Gw2 players have wanted since the game came out..

It's no secret that both HoT and PoF have left a number of players quite disappointed over the years and one of the complaints of that being that these expansions feel "small"While a lot of us enjoyed HoT and PoF and I count myself in that group too I do have to admit that many criticisms people have about them are quite fair.I forgive HoT on the length due to the huge amount of new tech and systems that were added with it that i'm sure took up a massive portion of it's development.PoF was a little longer and give us easily the best mount system in any MMO that I can think of, it was definitely a step up in some ways over HoT but also a step down in others..

EoD I think needs to be just wins all around.. a real home run nailed it expansion.I'm part of the Gw2 fandom that will likely love EoD no matter what but I fear there are a good number of discontented players who are feeling that it might be time to find another game if EoD doesn't deliver what they've been wanting since this game was released.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:At least you understand that if you're a non-contributing customer, you're opinion as a similar value.

Do you really want to compare how much each of us have spent on this game?

[Obtena.7952]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:At least you understand that if you're a non-contributing customer, you're opinion as a similar value.

Do you really want to compare how much each of us have spent on this game?

I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless of how much you spent, you somehow boiled expansion success about you. It's not about you. Your posts are about things that make you unhappy (which are typical of a game this age) aren't fixed, yet that has nothing to do with how the expansion may break the game or not. The things you listed are not significant to people that have been looking for expansion level content for 3 years so I doubt they will have a significant impact on the success of the expansion. Expansion will definitely by anyone wanting more storyline in PVE. Anyone that decides to not buy it is already one foot out the door anyways because their decision has nothing to do with the content being released.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Its neither for me cuz dont plan on buying the expac. The last few years playing this "used to be great" mmo is these days throwing money at these devs is like basically like throwing ur money in the trash, net returns about the same regarding actual significant and enjoyable content....unless u like reskins and couple hrs of content maybe twice a year if ur lucky. I'd be surprised if the expac brings a large amount of long time players back at this point, time will tell though.

[sevenDEADLY.5281]

Every post this person makes is about how the sky is falling and the game isn't fair. Not sure how some of you take it seriously at this point.

[Sinful Mustache.3589]

We have the same 4 major MMOs to choose from for years. All of them are very old and stable, and i doubt EOD will change this picture.Neither "excessive grinding" nor "lack of content" is true according to GW2. Just take a look at.. pretty much any other game beyond the top 4

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:At least you understand that if you're a non-contributing customer, you're opinion as a similar value.

Do you really want to compare how much each of us have spent on this game?

I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless of how much you spent,

You were the one bringing up the line. You seem to keep wanting to talk for others. Please desist from doing so and speak for yourself and stop trying to imply others are speaking for others as well.

[Obtena.7952]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:At least you understand that if you're a non-contributing customer, you're opinion as a similar value.

Do you really want to compare how much each of us have spent on this game?

I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless of how much you spent,

You were the one bringing up the line. You seem to keep wanting to talk for others. Please desist from doing so and speak for yourself and stop trying to imply others are speaking for others as well.

To be clear, nothing I have said would make a comparison between what you and I spend on the game relevant to this discussion and this comparison was your idea, not mine. There is no 'wanting to talk for others' as you accuse me of; that's a misinterpretation of some sort by you. The point I'm making remains:

Expansion success has nothing to do with what you are unhappy about in the game. It will be dependent on how many people have waited on the side for expansion content. Even unhappy people that continue to play can see value in the expansion, especially those that haven't already decided to not buy it because of things UNRELATED to the content the expansion delivers.

[robertthebard.8150]

Nope, I'm not going to be any more or less interested either way. I never got very far in GW, so I'm not the least bit hyped for Cantha.

[voltaicbore.8012]

@"Fallesafe.5932" said:I'll never understand complaining (for years) about the "grind" to get ascended gear, the skyscale, etc... instead of spending one week to just go get them. It's so ridiculous lol.

Lol I agree completely. It's obvious many of the criers have either never played or simply forgotten what real grinds are like from other games. GW2's grinds are so player-friendly, it's unbelievable. Also, as soon as you grind something out, there are residual benefits to it that stick to your account forever. Legendary weps/armor might have been the notable exception to that, but there was talk of ANet making the legendary armory to make even that stuff benefit you after making just one set. This game is far and away the single most generous player experience among its peers.

As for the initial question, I don't think EoD is "make or break" at all. As is the case with elections in the US (which I'm sure my fellow US players are all sick of hearing about this year), I'll guess the vast majority of people have probably made up their minds about the issue. The "let's wait and see" crowd is probably relatively small; the foundation of ANet's success will not be about begging those people to buy, but instead making sure that all the people who already want the expansion don't have reasons to change their mind.

[Obtena.7952]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:Skyscale grind, ascended grind, legendary grind, elitist raids, a preview of elitist raids through strike missions, mobs with a billion HP in IbS.. Anyone feel like Guild Wars 2 is straying from its original direction? Will the next expansion revive the game or will it be the last straw?

What's going to make or break them is all the already existing bugs, the bad balance patches, the lack of addressing hackers, the bots, the in game lag, the lack of new content, the non-communication and all the other.

Really? if the game is here with all those things now ... what makes you think those things will break it when there is a new expansion?

Because if they don't address issues they have now, why would people spend money on an expansion? Ill will now, leads to lack of sales later.

Why? because they want the expansion ... didn't stop the playerbase from purchasing the last two. I mean, the things you list aren't new ... so to think that all this doom and gloom will break the 3rd expansion but didn't the first two is just hopeful on your part. Really, saying things like that ... it's just desperate and empty threats.

Point is we purchased the last two, because back then these issues were NOT as pronounced as they are now. But I wont purchase another PoF and I sure as heck wont purchase a glorified living world despite wanting an expansion. They need big and new things, they need more oomph because right now there is not a SINGLE thing they could add that would make me spend money, not cosmetics and not legendary armory stuff. It will make or break the game for many of us, and likely they know that. At the end of the day it depends on what they want the game to be, and at this stage im not sure they know what they want it to be..

Im hesitant to have faith, or believe EoD will be good... PoF wasn't and objectively despite how I love HoT it wasn't very good either...

OK ... but no one is discussing why YOU or HIM won't purchase it. The fact is that the things he brought up ... it's likely the average GW2 gamer could care less about those things and will buy the expansion regardless. Truth is that those issues are pretty minor to most of the players in this game. Weak scare tactics dude. People that want content aren't going to concern themselves with philosophical pedantics about what Anet wants the game to be as part of their decision to purchase. I mean, I don't even get that comment ... it's pretty clear what the game is and what Anet wants it to be. If you think its still up in the air, then you need to review the game history better to understand it.

1. Most game modes outside of open world PvE feels dead. etc....

OK ... this isn't a debate about all the reasons people are unhappy with the game; there are lots of reasons and none of them are really relevant anyways to the question. The question really doesn't make sense in the first place ... the expansion isn't going to make or break the game because it's obvious that most of the game revenues aren't related to selling expansions in the first place. If the expansion delivers content similar to the last two, there isn't any reason to think it will 'break' the game because that's the flavour of content most people have been waiting for.

[roughneck.8936]

Love the game since its inception,some of the best map designs out there ,especially HOT expansion which the layers and complexity paired with difficulty is simply gorgeous.All the the original designers and directors left the studio which compels me to ask a simple question, can it get better then HOT? In my opinion it hasn't.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:Skyscale grind, ascended grind, legendary grind, elitist raids, a preview of elitist raids through strike missions, mobs with a billion HP in IbS.. Anyone feel like Guild Wars 2 is straying from its original direction? Will the next expansion revive the game or will it be the last straw?

What's going to make or break them is all the already existing bugs, the bad balance patches, the lack of addressing hackers, the bots, the in game lag, the lack of new content, the non-communication and all the other.

Really? if the game is here with all those things now ... what makes you think those things will break it when there is a new expansion?

Because if they don't address issues they have now, why would people spend money on an expansion? Ill will now, leads to lack of sales later.

Why? because they want the expansion ... didn't stop the playerbase from purchasing the last two. I mean, the things you list aren't new ... so to think that all this doom and gloom will break the 3rd expansion but didn't the first two is just hopeful on your part. Really, saying things like that ... it's just desperate and empty threats.

Point is we purchased the last two, because back then these issues were NOT as pronounced as they are now. But I wont purchase another PoF and I sure as heck wont purchase a glorified living world despite wanting an expansion. They need big and new things, they need more oomph because right now there is not a SINGLE thing they could add that would make me spend money, not cosmetics and not legendary armory stuff. It will make or break the game for many of us, and likely they know that. At the end of the day it depends on what they want the game to be, and at this stage im not sure they know what they want it to be..

Im hesitant to have faith, or believe EoD will be good... PoF wasn't and objectively despite how I love HoT it wasn't very good either...

OK ... but no one is discussing why YOU or HIM won't purchase it. The fact is that the things he brought up ... it's likely the average GW2 gamer could care less about those things and will buy the expansion regardless. Truth is that those issues are pretty minor to most of the players in this game. Weak scare tactics dude. People that want content aren't going to concern themselves with philosophical pedantics about what Anet wants the game to be as part of their decision to purchase. I mean, I don't even get that comment ... it's pretty clear what the game is and what Anet wants it to be. If you think its still up in the air, then you need to review the game history better to understand it.

1. Most game modes outside of open world PvE feels dead. etc....

OK ... this isn't a debate about all the reasons people are unhappy with the game; there are lots of reasons and none of them are really relevant anyways to the question. The question really doesn't make sense in the first place ... the expansion isn't going to make or break the game because it's obvious that most of the game revenues aren't related to selling expansions in the first place. If the expansion delivers content similar to the last two, there isn't any reason to think it will 'break' the game because that's the flavour of content most people have been waiting for.

Alright, then if and when it does and honestly I do hope it does at this point maybe I can get a good laugh. White knight if you want, shill if you desire but you and I will never agree likely on anything and I will continue to discredit you. The expansion wont do well if it doesn't have a good selling point and at this stage with their unwillingness to give what people do ask for; And their willingness to abandon modes and game types I see it as a meme. This game is a single player meme, guilds, raids, strikes and whatever else doesn't matter.

Nothing you do or say will change my stance, I will not be swayed and this can keep going back and forth if you want. Because frankly its more entertaining than trying to hype myself up over the mutilated corpse of cantha Im likely going to see traipsing into existence.

I'm a little behind the times, but isn't Cantha a good selling point? The early hype was all about that and maybe getting Tengu as a playable race, to the point where I was sick of reading about it. No White Knighting required, the people that are hyped to go back to Cantha are going to buy the expansion. People like me, that doesn't really care, may or may not. Or may buy it later on maybe. I can't tell you how many people are hyped, and I can only say for sure of one that isn't, me. No need to WK or shill, just state the facts as I see 'em, and early indications of the announcement trailer and thread were pretty positive, for a GW 2 topic.

It is, but I am doubtful (I love cantha, I always have. Its where I started.) That it will be anything more than a naurto-sim. And we wont get tengu as playable, we will never see it because its "too much work" ... much like it seems making an mmo and not a single player game.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:Skyscale grind, ascended grind, legendary grind, elitist raids, a preview of elitist raids through strike missions, mobs with a billion HP in IbS.. Anyone feel like Guild Wars 2 is straying from its original direction? Will the next expansion revive the game or will it be the last straw?

What's going to make or break them is all the already existing bugs, the bad balance patches, the lack of addressing hackers, the bots, the in game lag, the lack of new content, the non-communication and all the other.

Really? if the game is here with all those things now ... what makes you think those things will break it when there is a new expansion?

Because if they don't address issues they have now, why would people spend money on an expansion? Ill will now, leads to lack of sales later.

Why? because they want the expansion ... didn't stop the playerbase from purchasing the last two. I mean, the things you list aren't new ... so to think that all this doom and gloom will break the 3rd expansion but didn't the first two is just hopeful on your part. Really, saying things like that ... it's just desperate and empty threats.

Point is we purchased the last two, because back then these issues were NOT as pronounced as they are now. But I wont purchase another PoF and I sure as heck wont purchase a glorified living world despite wanting an expansion. They need big and new things, they need more oomph because right now there is not a SINGLE thing they could add that would make me spend money, not cosmetics and not legendary armory stuff. It will make or break the game for many of us, and likely they know that. At the end of the day it depends on what they want the game to be, and at this stage im not sure they know what they want it to be..

Im hesitant to have faith, or believe EoD will be good... PoF wasn't and objectively despite how I love HoT it wasn't very good either...

OK ... but no one is discussing why YOU or HIM won't purchase it. The fact is that the things he brought up ... it's likely the average GW2 gamer could care less about those things and will buy the expansion regardless. Truth is that those issues are pretty minor to most of the players in this game. Weak scare tactics dude. People that want content aren't going to concern themselves with philosophical pedantics about what Anet wants the game to be as part of their decision to purchase. I mean, I don't even get that comment ... it's pretty clear what the game is and what Anet wants it to be. If you think its still up in the air, then you need to review the game history better to understand it.

1. Most game modes outside of open world PvE feels dead. etc....

OK ... this isn't a debate about all the reasons people are unhappy with the game; there are lots of reasons and none of them are really relevant anyways to the question. The question really doesn't make sense in the first place ... the expansion isn't going to make or break the game because it's obvious that most of the game revenues aren't related to selling expansions in the first place. If the expansion delivers content similar to the last two, there isn't any reason to think it will 'break' the game because that's the flavour of content most people have been waiting for.

Alright, then if and when it does and honestly I do hope it does at this point maybe I can get a good laugh. White knight if you want, shill if you desire but you and I will never agree likely on anything and I will continue to discredit you. The expansion wont do well if it doesn't have a good selling point and at this stage with their unwillingness to give what people do ask for; And their willingness to abandon modes and game types I see it as a meme. This game is a single player meme, guilds, raids, strikes and whatever else doesn't matter.

OK again ... I'm not making this discussion to white knight or get you to agree with me ... it's not about you or how you feel about the game. Expansion isn't going to make or break because most people will decide to buy the expansion on it's own merit, not based on some axe they have to grind with Anet ... and the fact that most revenues from the game don't derive from expansion sales in the first place. Based on history, we already know what people want from an expansion and what they are willing to pay for.

If I were NCsoft Id shut down A-net and take the property for myself. Which they've done before and if the expansion doesn't do well they very well might; Its just good business and its clear that the aspirations are different. Considering everyone I know has basically quit and went to WoW or Final fantasy and likely wont return, and these players aren't even competitive players like I am? They are open world PvE/Raiders who say the game is boring. They've done all they want to do and the expansion like PoF likely wont add to that list, PoF didn't inspire myself for example to do anything new. I just continued on as do most players (Unless a new spec tickles the pickle.) The game doesn't feel good, and the pop sure doesn't seem as lively. Populace directly effects revenue, the more empty the game seems the more likely players are the leave and then the less money made. Simple. So time will tell ~ But I have my hopes.

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

@Mortifera.6138 said:Skyscale grind, ascended grind, legendary grind, elitist raids, a preview of elitist raids through strike missions, mobs with a billion HP in IbS.. Anyone feel like Guild Wars 2 is straying from its original direction? Will the next expansion revive the game or will it be the last straw?

the citadel of fire speed run times were pretty toxic aswell I recall. I dont think theres any way around the fact that at some point people are gonna figure content out and want to make it through as quickly as possible.

[Anchoku.8142]

Every expansion is make-or-break. It costs a lot of real money to develop an expansion and if it does not sell well enough the game could be moved to a maintenance mode, sold or transferred, shut down (unlikely) or have feature updates like Living World slowed down.

[wrathmagik.3518]

@Mortifera.6138 said:Skyscale grind, ascended grind, legendary grind, elitist raids, a preview of elitist raids through strike missions, mobs with a billion HP in IbS.. Anyone feel like Guild Wars 2 is straying from its original direction? Will the next expansion revive the game or will it be the last straw?

GW2 was always about breaking the norm and evolving the MMO genre and getting away from WoW. Thats EXACTLY what POF did with mounts. It's the exact direction the developers have always had with this game.