pvp is no longer skillful

[Beezl.4180]

Hi, 

 

Weather I will get alot of salt for this or not I really couldnt care less but I have been on and off with the game as of recent due to this issue, I have been playing the game since release and I have been only pvping in the game and that was the most enjoyable aspect of the game to me at least. Back in vanilla days things were just perfect, every class could beat every class and it felt nice to pvp. As a returning player in the current state of the game I am trully apalled. I feel like the pvp has become more league of legends style, where counter play plays more part then skill, there are specs out there with the new expansions that have either crazy amount of burst or crazy amount of sustain that you just cant put down. With a few clicks and boom someone made a spec to counter your spec then you go and try to counter theirs and its no longer about you tryign to outplay your opponent but its more about you trying to outcounter your opponent which is truly sad, as a competitive person in mmos this just sucks. No one can convince me that the game has not turned into this. During my on and off times with the game recently I have experienced almost every spec there is and I can tell you there is no joy in fighting someone that can over heal and do dmg to you or take 0 dmg and have some crazy immunity skills that just literally make him/her unkillable and the list can go on. I am not too sure how others feel on this topic but personally its sad that people actually think they are "competitve" when they are just blatantly just a counter to someone who is clearly outplaying them but just cant do enough dmg to out dmg the sustain or protection abilities which to the side user with 0 competitiveness in him/her it looks like the counterplayer is actually the skillful one. To finish off, I recently fought a guardian that no matter how many times I cc him and pull off a full combo id never get him down to a downed state, even though I was outplaying him and doing all the right moves it felt like I am trying to fight a hacker in a fps game. The first time we fought I beat him he was taking normal dmg, as soon as he came back a min later guess what, he had a whole new build that allowed him to do that, to me personally thats not skill thats just counter play.  I am not too sure how many of you are familliar with Lost Ark but I have played on the Russian server for a whille and hence the arena there is equlized I can tell you that you can easily beat any class if you are skilled enough even if they are considered a "counter class" by the community. These are my two cents and its truly sad the game has gone in this direction. Apologies for the fat paragraph.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Use.

 

Line.

 

Breaks.

 

Please.

[Lonecap.4105]

11 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Use.

 

Line.

 

Breaks.

 

Please.

It’s pretty much a hurt feelings post, nothing to see here really.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I really wanted to read this.  I just didn't.

[Beezl.4180]

18 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Use.

 

Line.

 

Breaks.

 

Please.

Whats there to

line

break

?

if

its

all

in 

one

context

?

If 

this

is 

how 

the 

community 

acts 

then

no 

wonder

your 

game 

is 

in 

a 

ded

state

[Beezl.4180]

7 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I really wanted to read this.  I just didn't.

at least it would have been your first ever thing to actually read in your life, you can leave a bad comment but you cant read send me your bank deets and I shall donate to your cause so that you become litarate and get you started on reading. Smile

 

[Beezl.4180]

9 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

It’s pretty much a hurt feelings post, nothing to see here really.

please do explain where the hurt feelings are ?

[AliamRationem.5172]

Just now, Beezl.4180 said:

at least it would have been your first ever thing to actually read in your life, you can leave a bad comment but you cant read send me your bank deets and I shall donate to your cause so that you become litarate and get you started on reading. Smile

 

 

I choose the Derek Zoolander School for kids who can't read good.  Thanks.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Beezl.4180 said:

-snip-

1) Check yourself

2) Nobody has time for walls of text

3) Go edit your post to make it more readable. An essay can all be one context but can have several paragraphs, learn to use them or no one will read whatever it is you wrote.

[Allarius.5670]

For those that didn't read, the tldr is that the game has been reduced to counter picks/counter builds rather than outplaying your opponent regardless of matchup. 

 

I think this is probably a pretty common feeling for many players and generates a lot of the feedback on the forum. 

 

However, I don't think pre-HOT was as rosy as is often remembered. Necromancer hard countered Engineer, Thief hard countered Mesmer, etc. 

 

From what I gather, counter picks/builds generate a lot of your decision making for your rotations to maximize your value in a match. That probably feels bad for many players, but it is the nature of the game. Recognizing this should probably let one start to see the game on a rotational level and further enhance one's understanding of the game mode.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

The Forum is for conversations not for writing articles. 

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Didnt read

[Genesis.5169]

8 hours ago, Beezl.4180 said:

Hi, 

 

Weather I will get alot of salt for this or not I really couldnt care less but I have been on and off with the game as of recent due to this issue, I have been playing the game since release and I have been only pvping in the game and that was the most enjoyable aspect of the game to me at least. Back in vanilla days things were just perfect, every class could beat every class and it felt nice to pvp. As a returning player in the current state of the game I am trully apalled. I feel like the pvp has become more league of legends style, where counter play plays more part then skill, there are specs out there with the new expansions that have either crazy amount of burst or crazy amount of sustain that you just cant put down. With a few clicks and boom someone made a spec to counter your spec then you go and try to counter theirs and its no longer about you tryign to outplay your opponent but its more about you trying to outcounter your opponent which is truly sad, as a competitive person in mmos this just sucks. No one can convince me that the game has not turned into this. During my on and off times with the game recently I have experienced almost every spec there is and I can tell you there is no joy in fighting someone that can over heal and do dmg to you or take 0 dmg and have some crazy immunity skills that just literally make him/her unkillable and the list can go on. I am not too sure how others feel on this topic but personally its sad that people actually think they are "competitve" when they are just blatantly just a counter to someone who is clearly outplaying them but just cant do enough dmg to out dmg the sustain or protection abilities which to the side user with 0 competitiveness in him/her it looks like the counterplayer is actually the skillful one. To finish off, I recently fought a guardian that no matter how many times I cc him and pull off a full combo id never get him down to a downed state, even though I was outplaying him and doing all the right moves it felt like I am trying to fight a hacker in a fps game. The first time we fought I beat him he was taking normal dmg, as soon as he came back a min later guess what, he had a whole new build that allowed him to do that, to me personally thats not skill thats just counter play.  I am not too sure how many of you are familliar with Lost Ark but I have played on the Russian server for a whille and hence the arena there is equlized I can tell you that you can easily beat any class if you are skilled enough even if they are considered a "counter class" by the community. These are my two cents and its truly sad the game has gone in this direction. Apologies for the fat paragraph.

 

Mr. Guy with 15 posts who started in 2020.

If you not atleast gold i'ma chalk this upto useless banter.

 

You haven't been around long enough to compare it to anything outside of what you see now.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, Allarius.5670 said:

For those that didn't read, the tldr is that the game has been reduced to counter picks/counter builds rather than outplaying your opponent regardless of matchup. 

 

I think this is probably a pretty common feeling for many players and generates a lot of the feedback on the forum. 

 

However, I don't think pre-HOT was as rosy as is often remembered. Necromancer hard countered Engineer, Thief hard countered Mesmer, etc. 

 

From what I gather, counter picks/builds generate a lot of your decision making for your rotations to maximize your value in a match. That probably feels bad for many players, but it is the nature of the game. Recognizing this should probably let one start to see the game on a rotational level and further enhance one's understanding of the game mode.

See OP. See how the eloquent usage of line breaks increases the readability of a post?

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

9 hours ago, Beezl.4180 said:

Hi, 

 

Weather I will get alot of salt for this or not I really couldnt care less but I have been on and off with the game as of recent due to this issue, I have been playing the game since release and I have been only pvping in the game and that was the most enjoyable aspect of the game to me at least.

 

Back in vanilla days things were just perfect, every class could beat every class and it felt nice to pvp. As a returning player in the current state of the game I am trully apalled. I feel like the pvp has become more league of legends style, where counter play plays more part then skill, there are specs out there with the new expansions that have either crazy amount of burst or crazy amount of sustain that you just cant put down. With a few clicks and boom someone made a spec to counter your spec then you go and try to counter theirs and its no longer about you tryign to outplay your opponent but its more about you trying to outcounter your opponent which is truly sad, as a competitive person in mmos this just sucks.

 

No one can convince me that the game has not turned into this. During my on and off times with the game recently I have experienced almost every spec there is and I can tell you there is no joy in fighting someone that can over heal and do dmg to you or take 0 dmg and have some crazy immunity skills that just literally make him/her unkillable and the list can go on.

 

I am not too sure how others feel on this topic but personally its sad that people actually think they are "competitve" when they are just blatantly just a counter to someone who is clearly outplaying them but just cant do enough dmg to out dmg the sustain or protection abilities which to the side user with 0 competitiveness in him/her it looks like the counterplayer is actually the skillful one.

 

To finish off, I recently fought a guardian that no matter how many times I cc him and pull off a full combo id never get him down to a downed state, even though I was outplaying him and doing all the right moves it felt like I am trying to fight a hacker in a fps game. The first time we fought I beat him he was taking normal dmg, as soon as he came back a min later guess what, he had a whole new build that allowed him to do that, to me personally thats not skill thats just counter play. 

 

I am not too sure how many of you are familliar with Lost Ark but I have played on the Russian server for a whille and hence the arena there is equlized I can tell you that you can easily beat any class if you are skilled enough even if they are considered a "counter class" by the community.

 

These are my two cents and its truly sad the game has gone in this direction. Apologies for the fat paragraph.

asdfasdfasdfasd

[Crab Fear.1624]

9 hours ago, Beezl.4180 said:

I have been on and off with the game and I have been only pvping in the game

Back in vanilla days things were just perfect, every class could beat every class and it felt nice to pvp.

As a returning player in the current state of the game I am trully apalled.

I feel like the pvp has become more league of legends style, where counter play plays more part then skill, there are specs out there with the new expansions that have either crazy amount of burst or crazy amount of sustain that you just cant put down.

With a few clicks and boom someone made a spec to counter your spec then you go and try to counter theirs and its no longer about you trying to outplay your opponent but its more about you trying to out-counter your opponent.

I have experienced almost every spec there is and I can tell you there is no joy in fighting someone that can over heal and do dmg to you or take 0 dmg and have some crazy immunity skills that just literally make him/her unkillable and the list can go on.

To finish off, I recently fought a guardian that no matter how many times I cc him and pull off a full combo id never get him down to a downed state, even though I was outplaying him and doing all the right moves it felt like I am trying to fight a hacker in a fps game.

The first time we fought I beat him he was taking normal dmg, as soon as he came back a min later guess what, he had a whole new build that allowed him to do that, to me personally thats not skill thats just counter play. 

 

I think finding counters is a skill because you have to think about what you fought and how to deal with it.

 

Also, players will look to make a build that counters as many builds as they can to push to a carry class.

 

This is where it becomes problematic, as some classes have those problematic magic builds where the only real counter is straight up being overwhelmed, like as in takes 3 players, or a mistake.

 

Sad thing is, these builds seem to be allowed to go for months/years and when finally deleted, some dev decides to bring it back.

 

PVP is not competitive period, let go, just do whatever.

 

MMOS are no longer trying to make pvp profitable, not sure why, but I feel like MMOs are boring to watch, especially when you don't have "cool" or likeable streamers.

 

Feel free to step up or e-girl it, but I don't think we got the audience for the attraction to turn it around.

[Ragnar.4257]

13 hours ago, Beezl.4180 said:

litarate

 

😨

[Broxxgar.6801]

Don't need to be Plat, Legendary or gold for me. I appreciate your feedback and your information regardless your skill. Because the game has problems with wintrading,bots and afk that can ruin your gameplays on ranked.

About the counterpick is a reality, its kind of skill for me. But the problem as your talked is that you cant outplay it and on that point you are correctly if you can't outplay it without another couterpick isn't a skillful game. A lot of my game there is people who just play with one build, mostly the meta build. One that I dislike the most is the burn guardian, I can win some of the duel against them, but is hard and I don't like to play one build just to counter one enemy. I hope that my teamates adjust their build to their opponents but they just play the same build everyday....

Don't be bothered by the people who don't read your post because was not correctly formated.


Another thing, number of post don't say nothing to me. That is alot of veteran on the game that don't use the forum  😉.

Feel free to express your opnion.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Broxxgar.6801

[eyelogix.1654]

People need to learn how to read instead of complaining... Get back  to school you bums!

[hellsmachine.4085]

Try not using meta builds, make your own, people can't counter what they don't know.

[Leonidrex.5649]

15 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

I think finding counters is a skill because you have to think about what you fought and how to deal with it.

 

Also, players will look to make a build that counters as many builds as they can to push to a carry class.

 

This is where it becomes problematic, as some classes have those problematic magic builds where the only real counter is straight up being overwhelmed, like as in takes 3 players, or a mistake.

 

Sad thing is, these builds seem to be allowed to go for months/years and when finally deleted, some dev decides to bring it back.

 

PVP is not competitive period, let go, just do whatever.

 

MMOS are no longer trying to make pvp profitable, not sure why, but I feel like MMOs are boring to watch, especially when you don't have "cool" or likeable streamers.

 

Feel free to step up or e-girl it, but I don't think we got the audience for the attraction to turn it around.

its not about cool or likeable streamers.
pvp in MMO games is simply hard to follow, someone that doesnt play MMO wont know what the kitten is going on.
So unless you are actually decent at the game you cant watch it anyways, and how many decent pvp players are there anyways in an mmo ? if 10% players does pvp, and only 25% of them is decent ( questionable ), its only 2,5% 
Personally im excited for lost ark, as from what I read pvp is balanced and fun, and most importantly, easy to follow as both player and a viewer, there is hope yet. Dim and dying one but still.

[Broxxgar.6801]

sPvP is heavily oriented on your team. You can't think that a match were teamfights is decisive that a 1v1 will define everything on the game. Even that you lost a 1v1 against your opponent/profession, if the opponent team wipe easily on a teamfight against your team . No matter how many 1v1 you lost against this opponent/proffession, your team will win the game.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Broxxgar.6801

[Kuma.1503]

4 hours ago, hellsmachine.4085 said:

Try not using meta builds, make your own, people can't counter what they don't know.

 

This honestly. Learn how to craft your own builds. Use the 1:30 before the match stats to analyze the enemy team comp and consider which trait/utility swaps you should take to deal with the enemy comp. 

 

For example, as a scrapper, If I see 2x scourge and a druid, I'm running Egun, purge gyro, and I'm taking comback cure so that no one on my team has to worry about condi bombs or druid immob spam. 

 

If they have multiple projectile classes, I'm running bulwark gyro instead for the bubble. 

 

if they have any rangers I'm running escape rune because honestly screw binding roots. 

[Broxxgar.6801]

9 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

 

This honestly. Learn how to craft your own builds. Use the 1:30 before the match stats to analyze the enemy team comp and consider which trait/utility swaps you should take to deal with the enemy comp.

That what I'm talking about. When you play for your team, that is a high % that you gonna win a match.

I play as Warrior and sometimes my teamates think that a I'm a hero,  they expect my build to be good on: side nodes, teamfight, 1v1, good sustain, good support,good dmg. I have do decap,recap.... its impossible. You will always have a counterpick that will denied  you or somebody on your team. That why we have 1:30 to mount up your build. But again, my teamates run the META build that they saw on a video which bring the famous guy to a legendary rank, which everyone may know. Them they are hard countered and I can do nothing. Because I'm not a hero and I won't be that either way.

Imagine yourself, play 200 - 300 game with the same build, the most common that I see, DH trapper, burn Guardian, and many other.

One time a DH trapp was trying to kill me he was seting up every thing to pull me, I was using Berserk Rifle, I just enter up in Berserk Mode with SoF and kept hitting him with Volley and other skill, he was receiving 2k-3k on every hit, and he tried to go invi(trap rune) and cast something, them he received a gun flame(burst skill) 8k-10k of dmg. And in less them 10s he was already dead, and completely denied.
Why this happens? I know the guy he just play this build ¬¬.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Broxxgar.6801

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I apologize if you ran into me

 

I was trying out Willbreaker and I went full bunker since that's the name of the game now.