New Patch notes ? ArenaNet What are you doing? [Merged]

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

11 minutes ago, lokh.2695 said:

I very much agree to these changes. Sure, the more hrdcore players might miss out on some tryharding. But for people like me, who'd rather kill trash mobs than wipe three times while "doing that epic strat that everabody wants to do because it's the speedrun way which is the best way and therefor the only valid way", removing these things is a blessing.

I am with you there.. I can't even count how many times I was forced to type gg coz someone forgot to prestack traps and stuff.

It doesn't even save time. They just want dps stat padding. I don't mind if they do it as we go but making everyone gg just for little bit dps boost is ridiculous.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Yellow Rainbow.6142

[Rogue.8235]

1 hour ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

I dont care what they do with prestack, I think its a persons choice. But as was pointed out this isnt about any exploitation, its about them trying to stabilize the servers. Which I think is bogus also, there are not a lot of high level fractal groups doing this to cause that kind of destabilization. but since its a hidden area out of the way they rather nerf that than out in open world where the whole community would scream bloody murder  

(emphasis added).

 

So I assume you are speaking from your decades of experience with enterprise-level information systems with your MSCPE or M.EnCS.  And of course you have all requisite certifications for such a career.  

You're reasoning for the invalidity of ArenaNet's claim for IS&N stability must have been well-thought and well-reasoned.  Too bad you didn't post any of it.

/s

 

Also, this is a change to one of the core functions of the game.  It affects every player in every part of the game.  

I just tested it to see if you were right.  You are not.

 

[Katary.7096]

On 9/1/2021 at 8:33 AM, Endilbiach.4132 said:

There's SO much salt in this thread complaining about not being to exploit game mechanics that weren't working as intended that just reading it has made me set up a doctors appointment to check my sodium levels.

Seriously, this was not something they intended to have in the game, and now they've fixed it.  Deal with it.

Considering that there is no mention of unintended gameplay in the patch notes and instead we get a sizeable explanation that this change was made to improve server performance, a doctors appointment sounds like a great idea. I hope they can prescribe you something that cures "patch notes hallucination".

[Loboling.5293]

3 hours ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

Does it? I think the most intuitive functionality is that trait swapping effectively resets your character. Why would the default behaviour involve preserving buffs/effects from a different spec? In many games, changing a spec requires a cost and is considered a big deal. Trait swapping is not the same as weapon swapping and the game never indicates it should be thought of like that.

Maybe we played the game different when we started, but I was always reading the tooltips, and trying to figure a use for everything when I started. I'd be switching things up all over, and if my banners disappeared when I switched to a warhorn, I might get a little confused. Maybe thing the banners don't last long, or maybe I misunderstood the ability. 

I just think changing something unrelated feels weird when it affects what's already going on in the game world. Like that spirit you put down just vanishes because you decided it was good to equip a longbow for this next pull. Wait, why is it on cooldown?... 

I think new players need their abilities to remain consistent in behavior, unless they swap a trait or ability that provides that affect. Changing weapons removing items you've conjured into the world, or banners you've placed would really confuse me if I didn't know the cause. And it holds me back from a seamless flow of gameplay, when I can experiment and try things and optimize. Which is one of the best parts of these games. 

Explain to me how this helps performance? Or did ANET say something I missed, and they intended to remove flexibility for players in the open world. How does that make the game better? 

[SexyMofo.8923]

Boon heralds don’t care. 

[shrew.3059]

4 hours ago, Loboling.5293 said:

Maybe we played the game different when we started, but I was always reading the tooltips, and trying to figure a use for everything when I started. I'd be switching things up all over, and if my banners disappeared when I switched to a warhorn, I might get a little confused. Maybe thing the banners don't last long, or maybe I misunderstood the ability. 

I just think changing something unrelated feels weird when it affects what's already going on in the game world. Like that spirit you put down just vanishes because you decided it was good to equip a longbow for this next pull. Wait, why is it on cooldown?... 

I think new players need their abilities to remain consistent in behavior, unless they swap a trait or ability that provides that affect. Changing weapons removing items you've conjured into the world, or banners you've placed would really confuse me if I didn't know the cause. And it holds me back from a seamless flow of gameplay, when I can experiment and try things and optimize. Which is one of the best parts of these games. 

Explain to me how this helps performance? Or did ANET say something I missed, and they intended to remove flexibility for players in the open world. How does that make the game better? 

 

How often are new players switching weapons (as opposed to swapping weapons) after casting? If they were trying to “pre-stack” or get the best of both weapons, the new functionality would show them this isn’t possible.

[Ashen.2907]

On 8/31/2021 at 9:23 AM, tim.4596 said:

What's the point to start changing those now. ... why make changes 

They already told us the point and explained why the changes were made.

[Dante.1763]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

They already told us the point and explained why the changes were made.

Not good enough!!! <-players in this thread who think anet is lying.

[kharmin.7683]

9 hours ago, Loboling.5293 said:

I think new players need their abilities to remain consistent in behavior, unless they swap a trait or ability that provides that affect.

How can the game distinguish between a new player or a player with a new, low-level alt?

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

uff this topic is so hot it came into the gaming news ^^

 

The short answer from me is the changes to exposed were for the average player more devastating then this.(and is really killing fractals)

 

Yeah I know you can't  speed-run like you used to be but honestly without build templates there were also speed clears in dungeons back in the days.

 

Honesty there is so much stuff going on in fractals that feels like an exploit and Arena.NET knows all of this since years ago so in some way it is refreshing.

 

For WvW this was also abusable to the 10 degree .

 

Also pre-stacking is still possible even if it doesn't do much any more through the shorten boons duration.

 

The is also some parts which are more difficult to evaluate . In (CMs) fractals there is some pressure  or self set target to be the best in what are you doing . By using boons which doesn't come from your elite spec you had an advantage. I know that Arena.NET must have telemetric (big)data  but by using stuff you can only get by abusing the system you kinda faking the data.

 

What I mean by this before through the exposed update Arena:NET claimed that Weaver is in a good spot but this was only true when you considered pre-buff with build swap when you haven't done that Weaver was already less then average.

 

So Arena.NET done balancing with kinda wrong data ....

 

Yes there is also something I don't like about this it is Arena.NET ever lasting war on boons since 2018.

[daninumbers.4036]

Pre-stacking to be honest is just some help as if the fight was meant to last less than 30 seconds, the max for boons, you really could do the same normally in 1 minute.

In wvw it could be a problem if done right before engaging or for ambushing as you could spike very high damage.

But in regular pve maps? Swiftness or alacrity, that's it. There is barely any content that you'd need stacking or that it would help at all. 30 seconds of boons for a bounty or a world boss means nothing if the fight will take 5 - 15 minutes, you'll be on your own for the rest of the time.

 

For some of us it was something convenient and to share with others, not a git gud thing (you sound more elitist than the prestacking guys you are mocking btw). And yeah, Anet hasn't stated it's an exploit, just for the servers stability. I haven't noticed anything at all but they'll know better on their end.

[iriyabran.6218]

Look, I am not one of those people that prestack everything that exists for the class I play BUT you have already put a max duration cap for boons.

 

I would rather other people are allowed to prestack boons, than having all the boons on me instantly deleted just because I switched a weapon for some swiftness.

 

I agree about removing prestacks of  trait effects like ashes, I agree about traps and I agree about skills effects like one wold pack but please let boons be because it feels much better that way. It feels right, as you have already put a duration cap for them.

[Dawdler.8521]

So the argument is that we should allow what is basicly exploits because "it feels right"?

[iriyabran.6218]

Do you know what's the definition of an exploit?

This is how the game has worked for 9 years, calling it an exploit is inaccurate, it's a fundamental function of the game and the way it was made. This is a change of fundamental functions, not an exploit and it's just clunky. It's like they're doing it cause they're on a budget and can't afford to do anything else. You know, like eating noodles and calling it a healthy food cause you can't really afford meat and vegetable.

Edited September 3, 2021 by iriyabran.6218

[Omega.6801]

Nah, changes are fine.

[kharmin.7683]

6 minutes ago, iriyabran.6218 said:

Do you know what's the definition of an exploit?

This is how the game has worked for 9 years, calling it an exploit is inaccurate, it's a fundamental function of the game and the way it was made. This is a change of fundamental functions, not an exploit and it's just clunky. It's like they're doing it cause they're on a budget and can't afford to do anything else. You know, like eating noodles and calling it a healthy food cause you can't really afford meat and vegetable.

There is nothing "fundamental" about something that should not have been in the first place.  Did you read the reasoning for the change?  See below (emphasis mine):

 

QUOTE: This process will clean up many possible broken states in which a skill effect could be present when it should not have been. Some of these states caused duplication of performance-intensive skills such as traps, which degraded server performance for everyone.

ENDQUOTE

Oh, and it really doesn't seem to be because they are on a budget and can't afford to do anything else as you claim.

[sewenewes.4176]

On 8/31/2021 at 9:02 PM, Math.5123 said:

removes skilled play

 

Pre-casting buffs is skilled play? That's curious. I always thought of my initial WoW days as fairly laid-back but clearly I was in fact a hardcore gamer of the highest order right from the start considering how I had to pre-cast my buffs in the form of totems before every single fight.

 

The world will never know what a gaming prodigy it lost with me going casual. Truly, a tragedy.

[Math.5123]

1 hour ago, ewenness.6482 said:

 

Pre-casting buffs is skilled play? That's curious. I always thought of my initial WoW days as fairly laid-back but clearly I was in fact a hardcore gamer of the highest order right from the start considering how I had to pre-cast my buffs in the form of totems before every single fight.

 

The world will never know what a gaming prodigy it lost with me going casual. Truly, a tragedy.

Putting on buffs that lasts for 30 minutes and solo stacking 25 might isn't the same. If you feel like keeping a snarky tone because you never did lowmans or never seen them, go ahead. But this punishes a niche scene in the game you do not want to see gone. 

[Xanadrine.4352]

20 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

(emphasis added).

 

So I assume you are speaking from your decades of experience with enterprise-level information systems with your MSCPE or M.EnCS.  And of course you have all requisite certifications for such a career.  

You're reasoning for the invalidity of ArenaNet's claim for IS&N stability must have been well-thought and well-reasoned.  Too bad you didn't post any of it.

/s

 

Also, this is a change to one of the core functions of the game.  It affects every player in every part of the game.  

I just tested it to see if you were right.  You are not.

 

What Im saying is server stability is affected more by the umpteen amount of players in open world, swapping, hitting buffs, calls to mount, spells, all the flash, minis and pets, than it is by a small amount of people in an instanced area. So tell me how did you test the server stability again?

[sewenewes.4176]

49 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

Putting on buffs that lasts for 30 minutes and solo stacking 25 might isn't the same. If you feel like keeping a snarky tone because you never did lowmans or never seen them, go ahead. But this punishes a niche scene in the game you do not want to see gone. 

 

Thing is, "lowmans" isn't the intended way to tackle content in this game or in WoW. That doesn't make the people playing like that wrong but it makes their playstyle unsupported by the developers. Much like twinking in WoW or - using GW2 examples - defeating bosses with only thieves using Quip or killing Chak Gerent with everyone just lobbing Spiky Fruit stacks at it, one must accept that the way they are playing the game isn't intended and as such the developers can change or flat out delete their preferred methods without further ado.

 

No one in this game needs to pre-cast buffs to complete any content just like no one in classic WoW needs to have every world boss buff lined up for raid night. Arenanet didn't suddenly make some content numerically impossible with this change. They simply did away with an unintended method of play you liked. Not the end of the world. I'm sure the new speed clear meta is already being worked on.

[Math.5123]

16 minutes ago, ewenness.6482 said:

 

Thing is, "lowmans" isn't the intended way to tackle content in this game or in WoW. That doesn't make the people playing like that wrong but it makes their playstyle unsupported by the developers. Much like twinking in WoW or - using GW2 examples - defeating bosses with only thieves using Quip or killing Chak Gerent with everyone just lobbing Spiky Fruit stacks at it, one must accept that the way they are playing the game isn't intended and as such the developers can change or flat out delete their preferred methods without further ado.

 

No one in this game needs to pre-cast buffs to complete any content just like no one in classic WoW needs to have every world boss buff lined up for raid night. Arenanet didn't suddenly make some content numerically impossible with this change. They simply did away with an unintended method of play you liked. Not the end of the world. I'm sure the new speed clear meta is already being worked on.

Where do you get this "unintended method" from. The only reason was to improve server stability. 

If they chose to disable all flashy gemstone skins to improve server stability, would that all of a sudden make those particle capes and weapons unintended? 

No. It wouldn't. 

[Dante.1763]

4 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

Where do you get this "unintended method" from. The only reason was to improve server stability. 

If they chose to disable all flashy gemstone skins to improve server stability, would that all of a sudden make those particle capes and weapons unintended? 

No. It wouldn't. 

Well, see you say that, but they do say its an exploit now, so. From the post below. Granted they are looking into Allowing weapon swap from inventory and Swiftness and Aegis will no longer be removed.

16 minutes ago, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

This change is necessary for positive improvements to the stability of the game, and to safeguard against exploits in PvE and WvW where the benefits from some skills or traits could be used without being a part of the player’s current build or skill loadout.

[wolfsblut.9435]

There was always a 2-weapon-sets design.

Yes, we could argue that it took a-net 9 years to fix it, but....how cares it's fixed.

[sewenewes.4176]

12 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

Where do you get this "unintended method" from.

 

Simple. The encounters weren't designed with pre-casting buffs in mind. Doesn't necessarily mean they disabled the way to do it because it bothered them that people used it for even faster clears than before. Like you say, they could have just disabled it to improve server stability as is stated in the announcement. It was an unintended playstyle that isn't required to clear any content and as such Arenanet isn't required to keep it in the game. Same as when they disabled the use of Spiky Fruit or certain sigils in fractals and raids. 

 

They could have kept it. They didn't. Doesn't much matter why. It's gone now. Easy come, easy go. It might return again one day. Who knows? 

 

People can still speed clear and lowman clear a lot of things, they just have to do it by using a different strategy.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

What Im saying is server stability is affected more by the umpteen amount of players in open world, swapping, hitting buffs, calls to mount, spells, all the flash, minis and pets, than it is by a small amount of people in an instanced area. So tell me how did you test the server stability again?

Of course no player tested the server stability ... including YOU. What's funny is that you question our position by asking how we tested server stability .... but notice you DIDN'T apply that question to yourself when you claimed you think it these improvements are bogus. So it's OK for you to simply think it's bogus ... but for everyone that disagrees with you, you want a server stability test report ... Sure, apply your double standards ... I have fun pointing them out. 

 

Here is the best part ... Anet can and probably did measure their server stability. Why else would they do the work to improve it? What is bogus here is the implication you are making that Anet wastes their time and money on these kinds of activities for no good reason other than just to lie to players about why they do things. That's absurd. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Obtena.7952