Punch in the gut.

[Kalocin.5982]

7 hours ago, costepj.5120 said:

You mean like they literally just did over the last few months?

Free in a permanent sense. You've got a lot of people joining fresh right now because they heard about the new expansion, or people coming back and trying to get their friends to join. A lot of those people are only getting half those free unlocks. If someone joins today, should the response be "Too bad, you missed out", I don't think so.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

11 minutes ago, Kalocin.5982 said:

I think my point was less on the cost and more on the result. Regardless of how we feel or how fair the price may be, going through the whole story with purchasing the game is impossible. In sub based MMOs you don't have to back pay the sub fee if you join today, you get the whole story to the current expansion's content. For GW2 you so have to back pay a bit to complete the story. While they don't have to unlock them all at once, you can't tell me it's a good experience going from Personal Story to Heart of Thorns and then directly to Path of Fire. There's just a lot lost and it leads into what you call a poor user experience.

 

UX is pretty huge when it comes to games, especially new ones that are going to bring their friends. Most of us forum folk see the benefits and costs of the game but to an outsider it doesn't sell itself. Why buy all this GW2 stuff to play a whole story, especially when you're being told you can play it like a sub based game anyway.

 

Trying to sell to people on the forums here isn't the target. It's the guy who downloads the game only to find out all his bag/bank slots are locked and they have to buy xyz to (at least for a person unaware) fully enjoy the experience. You're not keeping those people.

 

I don't think that the majority of new players are going to be confused or upset that there is purchasable content for this game.  Unless someone has never played a video game before, they are most likely aware of micro transactions, expansions, sub fees, DLC and other charged content.

I can appreciate that some players might not understand that some story content is released with expansions, and some with periodic free releases.  I can also understand the desire to have a 'one package to rule them all' with all the expansions and LWS available from the online store.

However, all of LWS has been made free at least twice now (at respective launch dates and then during this recent "Return to..." events), perhaps more often over the past several years.  These LWS Chapters have also gone on sale several times a year at as much as a 50% discount.

I would anticipate that the average new player would expect to find a few 'gotcha' type moments in any game.  That they are fairly soft in GW2 and Anet offers reductions in cost, sometimes giving them away for free, could be viewed as appealing when compared to many other games.

To the OP, I would suggest you buy the chapters you want as you are playing them, and if any go on sale, pick them up then.  As well, enjoy the free chapters the next few months!

[DanAlcedo.3281]

People buy 60$ Nintendo Switch Games that have 5h of content and look like a bad GameCube Game. 

I think you can pay a few for the episodes. 

[Kalocin.5982]

10 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I don't think that the majority of new players are going to be confused or upset that there is purchasable content for this game.  Unless someone has never played a video game before, they are most likely aware of micro transactions, expansions, sub fees, DLC and other charged content.

I can appreciate that some players might not understand that some story content is released with expansions, and some with periodic free releases.  I can also understand the desire to have a 'one package to rule them all' with all the expansions and LWS available from the online store.

However, all of LWS has been made free at least twice now (at respective launch dates and then during this recent "Return to..." events), perhaps more often over the past several years.  These LWS Chapters have also gone on sale several times a year at as much as a 50% discount.

I would anticipate that the average new player would expect to find a few 'gotcha' type moments in any game.  That they are fairly soft in GW2 and Anet offers reductions in cost, sometimes giving them away for free, could be viewed as appealing when compared to many other games.

To the OP, I would suggest you buy the chapters you want as you are playing them, and if any go on sale, pick them up then.  As well, enjoy the free chapters the next few months!

It's fine if you feel you need to defend the company and it's reasoning but it's just a matter of fact you don't get everything immediately. That does matter, I'm currently dealing with it as a beta player. My friends play FFXIV and GW2 is just a steep hill for then to climb to get into. Even the one friend I have got into playing doesn't want to buy the expansions because they're not even sure if they'll hit 80.

 

Anet isn't unreasonable but they've gotta look at the competition and make a change. There's a reason why all the content creators are making videos about FFXIV and not GW2 right now. It's just a shame they're doing it in spite of WoW

[Crono.4197]

7 hours ago, Kalocin.5982 said:

It's fine if you feel you need to defend the company and it's reasoning but it's just a matter of fact you don't get everything immediately. That does matter, I'm currently dealing with it as a beta player. My friends play FFXIV and GW2 is just a steep hill for then to climb to get into. Even the one friend I have got into playing doesn't want to buy the expansions because they're not even sure if they'll hit 80.

 

Anet isn't unreasonable but they've gotta look at the competition and make a change. There's a reason why all the content creators are making videos about FFXIV and not GW2 right now. It's just a shame they're doing it in spite of WoW

Sure, then in order to get everything at once, Living Stories should be free, but instead of paying for those, let's make all expansions 60 euros each and not bundled together.

But no, people won't like that either and would still complain, everyone that complains wants everything for free when it comes to Guild Wars 2, but would pay gazillion base price to play other games or would pay subscription fees to play other games. And in the end they would have paid more for those other games than they would have paid for GW2.

"You gotta look at competion and make a change." If they would do that, then most core players would leave because fans of the game aren't playing for things that the competition has, be it about the pricing or the game itself. If Guild Wars 2 was like WoW or FF14, I wouldn't play it. Many people play the game because of it's horizontal progression and because it has no subscription fees. Making it like other games would make it just another copy-paste in a world where almost all games are copy-paste.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Crono.4197

[Goettel.4389]

ANet needs to be clearer about the cost of LW seasons on top of the expansions.

Having said that, I think both expansions and all the LW seasons are worth the money, for different reasons.

 

Don't be disheartened, you've bought a metric ton of great content.

[Sylvyn.4750]

The lesson here is once you start a GW2 account, log in every day and grab your daily reward and any free LS episodes, then you can log out.  Down the road when you really feel like playing more, you won't be kicking yourself for having missed something that was free to those that logged in daily.  Been there, done that.  

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Yep it's a bit strange when you think about it: Other MMOs require you to update to the latest expansion and then you're set, but in Guild Wars 2 you are required to treat the "bits inbetween" as further paid content. It affects new or returning players disproportionately, which is kitten-backwards. Plenty of new players in the guild(s) I'm in have inquired about this. It's actually one of the very worst design decisions made with respect to monetization. "They were free" is a pointless argument, because they're not free now to new players and it's unknown when they will be. So some players get saddled with unpleasant, hitherto hidden extra costs.

[Marikus.1875]

Listen, I paid $99 for the complete collection edition which came with all expacs including EoD next year and 4k Gems + a bunch of goodies. I used the gems to buy all of the stories except 4 and icebrood cuz theyll be free. 

 

So for $99 I got enough content to last me probably for several years (lol) but let's say 1 year to keep it apples to apples. 

 

Compare that to what I spent in WoW... 

 

-Shadowlands = $39.99

-Monthly fee (x12mos) = $179.88

Total = $219.87

 

Guild wars 2 = $99.99

 

I spent $119.88 more for one years worth of gameplay in WoW than I did for GW2 🙂. 

 

I'd say I got more than my monies worth. 

[Azure Prower.8701]

5 hours ago, Marikus.1875 said:

Listen, I paid $99 for the complete collection edition which came with all expacs including EoD next year and 4k Gems + a bunch of goodies. I used the gems to buy all of the stories except 4 and icebrood cuz theyll be free. 

 

So for $99 I got enough content to last me probably for several years (lol) but let's say 1 year to keep it apples to apples. 

 

Compare that to what I spent in WoW... 

 

-Shadowlands = $39.99

-Monthly fee (x12mos) = $179.88

Total = $219.87

 

Guild wars 2 = $99.99

 

I spent $119.88 more for one years worth of gameplay in WoW than I did for GW2 🙂. 

 

I'd say I got more than my monies worth. 

Not really a fair comparison when Shadowlands is pretty bad and lacks content.

 

Any other WoW expansion had GW2 beat content wise for time and money spent. You're even comparing content you're not even playing (EoD), and saying you've got your money's worth out of it. The bias is pretty strong there.

[Azure Prower.8701]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:15 AM, Lucky.4263 said:

I'm sure this isn't the first time you regulars heard this but just returned to the game bought the expansion and I'm now at a crossroads spend weeks maybe months farming gold or pay another $50 for the other half of the game (living world). I was so excited to get back into the game and this just sapped all motivation. Ill prob just end up buying it but man this is a sour feeling.

Don't expect any sympathy on these forums. You either log in when you're demanded to,  and praise the developers for giving you the opportunity to even get the chance to unlock it for free. At least what some will lead you to believe.

 

It's a very predatory monetary system used. That preys upon impulse with time limited purchases or incentives.

 

It's quite deceptive when new or returning players purchase expansions, and yet unknown to them that they're only paying for half an expansion. Because if the living world wasn't the other half of the expansion, you could purchase and play it with out purchasing the expansion it is tied to.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Azure Prower.8701

[Ultramex.1506]

32 minutes ago, Azure Prower.8701 said:

Don't expect any sympathy on these forums. You either log in when you're demanded to,  and praise the developers for giving you the opportunity to even get the chance to unlock it for free. At least what some will lead you to believe.

 

It's a very predatory monetary system used. That preys upon impulse with time limited purchases or incentives.

 

It's quite deceptive when new or returning players purchase expansions, and yet unknown to them that they're only paying for half an expansion. Because if the living world wasn't the other half of the expansion, you could purchase and play it with out purchasing the expansion it is tied to.

And i can alway expect some strange  accusation from players like you

Look at how ESO release their dlc between chapters, can you get them for free? No
Can you use your gold to buy crown? No
Do you get those dlc by buying the chapters? No

So ESO is guilty of this too but GW2 give you the option to buy them without real life money
ESO demand subscription in order to continue playing those or use crown from sub to buy them but you still have to pay real money either way
Anet should be clearer about Expansion and LW but GOD FORBID they ask for your money, smh

[Crono.4197]

2 hours ago, Azure Prower.8701 said:

Not really a fair comparison when Shadowlands is pretty bad and lacks content.

 

Any other WoW expansion had GW2 beat content wise for time and money spent. You're even comparing content you're not even playing (EoD), and saying you've got your money's worth out of it. The bias is pretty strong there.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The games aren't even similar. The bias is pretty strong, yeah...on your side. Long story short: "GW2 bad WoW good". I always wondered why people that hate the game are still on these forums.

The game gives tons of content for cheap and ways to get the Living Story for free. Again, it's just people complaining the game is bad and that they want all content for free.

[Linken.6345]

4 hours ago, Azure Prower.8701 said:

Not really a fair comparison when Shadowlands is pretty bad and lacks content.

 

Any other WoW expansion had GW2 beat content wise for time and money spent. You're even comparing content you're not even playing (EoD), and saying you've got your money's worth out of it. The bias is pretty strong there.

Well when you buy shadow lands as a new person you get the whole game so saying that last expansion got a lack of content dont matter.

Your comparing whole of wow to whole of gw2.

Content wise Id say you get more for your buck in gw2 but wow is made to slow you down to milk more money out of you with rep grinds for example.

[Algreg.3629]

On 9/6/2021 at 7:24 AM, Vayne.8563 said:

It's only a punch in the gut if you don't look at the big picture. The big picture is this game is a non-pay to win game without a subscription or optional subscription.

Pretty much six months of any other AAA MMO will get you what you get for Guild Wars 2 including the expansion that's not out yet. I don't see how that's a punch in the gut.

And some of that stuff you'll be getting free this week and in upcoming weeks. Now look at it from a player who's been here all along.

I've never paid a penny for a living world episode ever. I get them for free by logging into the game when they're active. There isn't a more generous MMORPG out there, period.  Sure it seems bad when you're looking at it from the details but when you look  at the big picture it's actually pretty generous.

the big picture is irrelavant to a single customer though.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Most ls episodes are not worth the cost. Ls2 gives nothing of value. Ls3 has nothing of value except a legendary trinket if you buy all of then. Ls4 might be worth it for skyscale, but again requires all episodes. Ibs is trash minus drizzlewood and maybe dragonstorm 

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Most ls episodes are not worth the cost. Ls2 gives nothing of value. Ls3 has nothing of value except a legendary trinket if you buy all of then. Ls4 might be worth it for skyscale, but again requires all episodes. Ibs is trash minus drizzlewood and maybe dragonstorm 

LS2 is also part of the Return chapters for that legendary amulet, so does LS4 and so will the IBS. LS3 has the value of being able to get an ascended breather and all ascended trinkets. In fact the trinkets you get in Bloodstone Fen (amulet, ring and backpack) have as special feature that you can change stats on them for 100 unbound magic for all 3 of them. Bjora Marches probably has the easiest ascended accessory to get. 

 

What you mean with having nothing of value or trash is that they don't have the right gold per second ratio for you. And in drizzlewood you get the added benefit of being able to get mystic clovers at a fair pace. Other people assign value differently, so I would characterize your view as a very personal opinion that doesn't apply in general.

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Algreg.3629 said:

the big picture is irrelavant to a single customer though.

Indeed and they are unpleasantly surprised when they thought they'd bought all the content and then realize they haven't. I'm not saying that Anet shouldn't charge for it but they should sell packages where LS stories are included. You have no idea as a new customer that these LS chapters even exist. That's where they go wrong. 

 

I mean how hard would it be to include LS2 + LS3 with HoT and LS4 + IBS with PoF? Sure let it be a separate package that costs more alongside the option of just buying the expansions but at least people will know that there are LS chapters and they cost money. Getting that as a "surprise" after they bought the expansion(s) just doesn't feel good.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

58 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Indeed and they are unpleasantly surprised when they thought they'd bought all the content and then realize they haven't. I'm not saying that Anet shouldn't charge for it but they should sell packages where LS stories are included. You have no idea as a new customer that these LS chapters even exist. That's where they go wrong. 

 

I mean how hard would it be to include LS2 + LS3 with HoT and LS4 + IBS with PoF? Sure let it be a separate package that costs more alongside the option of just buying the expansions but at least people will know that there are LS chapters and they cost money. Getting that as a "surprise" after they bought the expansion(s) just doesn't feel good.

Only if ArenaNet added the disclaimer that this extra content can be earned in-game and is, also, periodically offered at no cost. 

Which is something I'm guessing the Marketing Team would be reluctant to do.

Otherwise, there would just be laments on the forums that ArenaNet was 'greedy' and 'tricked' players into purchasing content they could have earned or obtained at no cost. 

 

Either way, there will be dissatisfaction. 

[Gibson.4036]

4 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

LS2 is also part of the Return chapters for that legendary amulet, so does LS4 and so will the IBS. LS3 has the value of being able to get an ascended breather and all ascended trinkets. In fact the trinkets you get in Bloodstone Fen (amulet, ring and backpack) have as special feature that you can change stats on them for 100 unbound magic for all 3 of them. Bjora Marches probably has the easiest ascended accessory to get. 

 

What you mean with having nothing of value or trash is that they don't have the right gold per second ratio for you. And in drizzlewood you get the added benefit of being able to get mystic clovers at a fair pace. Other people assign value differently, so I would characterize your view as a very personal opinion that doesn't apply in general.

I was surprised by that statement, too. I've found LS3 to be very valuable in quickly getting new ascended trinket sets.

How are mystic clovers earned in Drizzlewood?

[Gehenna.3625]

21 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I was surprised by that statement, too. I've found LS3 to be very valuable in quickly getting new ascended trinket sets.

How are mystic clovers earned in Drizzlewood?

there are 6 reward tracks (relating to the 4 friendly legions and the 2 enemy legions) there that you can do and repeat indefinitely. They are just like WvW reward tracks if you will. The first time you complete them you will get 7 clovers each and 2 clovers afterwards. The thing is you can also advance them together and you can trade in mats for track advancements as well at the quaestor or whatever that vendor is called.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Gehenna.3625

[Vayne.8563]

11 hours ago, Azure Prower.8701 said:

Not really a fair comparison when Shadowlands is pretty bad and lacks content.

 

Any other WoW expansion had GW2 beat content wise for time and money spent. You're even comparing content you're not even playing (EoD), and saying you've got your money's worth out of it. The bias is pretty strong there.

I don't know, I think it is a fair comparison.  Because if you want to keep playing WoW for the next year, you start paying again even more. Also I don't think that WOW has come out with more content than I play.  The truth is, if we're talking about quests hubs and leveling, yeah, not really content to me. Raids, not content to me. Most of the stuff WoW comes out with wouldn't interest me at all.

 

The bias that WOW comes out with more content comes from people thinking quest hubs and zones with dynamic events are equal somehow.  The content that came out with HoT I'd put up against most expansions in any game.  YMMV.

[Gehenna.3625]

3 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Only if ArenaNet added the disclaimer that this extra content can be earned in-game and is, also, periodically offered at no cost. 

Which is something I'm guessing the Marketing Team would be reluctant to do.

Otherwise, there would just be laments on the forums that ArenaNet was 'greedy' and 'tricked' players into purchasing content they could have earned or obtained at no cost. 

 

Either way, there will be dissatisfaction. 

So you want a disclaimer when they put it up for sale on the web shop, but not when it's in the gem store? I mean does the gem store warn you of the possibility of earning them in game or that there are discounts possible?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Are you suggesting most new purchasers have access to the Gem Store?  Or are you saying those that have access to the Gem Store don't realize there is such a thing as Gold-to-Gems/Gem-to Gold exchange, even though there is a tab specifically for that in the Gem Store, and often a header spotlighting it?

 

There's already a disclaimer on the site, though many don't seem to notice it. 

 

What I'm really saying, is that it's not likely to change. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Inculpatus cedo.9234

[Gehenna.3625]

2 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Are you suggesting most new purchasers have access to the Gem Store?  Or are you saying those that have access to the Gem Store don't realize there is such a thing as Gold-to-Gems/Gem-to Gold exchange, even though there is a tab specifically for that in the Gem Store, and often a header spotlighting it?

No I'm not suggesting that. I'm not saying the second part either. I have no idea how you read that into my post.

2 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

There's already a disclaimer on the site, though many don't seem to notice it. 

which disclaimer are you referring to and does it tell people that there's more content to buy other than the expansions?

2 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

What I'm really saying, is that it's not likely to change. 

well, you took a long way around to get to the crux of your own point but no, I also don't expect it to change.