Potential solution to the frustrating CC meta

[Silverpoopoo.1476]

Being stunned and interrupted five or ten times in a row, then dying, is not fun. But that is what PvP in GW2 is largely becoming, because each new expansion adds more and more stun and interrupt abilities to the game.

To fix this problem in Ranked PvP, I propose this change: If you are currently interrupted, incoming interrupts will automatically miss.

This would still allow every player to use their interrupts, but in order to chain them they would have to actually use observation and skill to time them in order to hit the enemy player right after the last stun has worn off.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Silverpoopoo.1476

[Kodama.6453]

Not a fan of it, missing your own stuns because an ally used their mini daze a tiny bit earlier would feel terrible, especially if your class gets special benefits from their stuns (damage from lightning rod, barrier from system shocker, damage from terror, etc.).

[Vancho.8750]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Not a fan of it, missing your own stuns because an ally used their mini daze a tiny bit earlier would feel terrible, especially if your class gets special benefits from their stuns (damage from lightning rod, barrier from system shocker, damage from terror, etc.).

Just better stunbreaking skills and maybe traits would help. All stunbreaks are not equal, those that do extra thing to prevent further cc are straight up better be it giving stability, dazing people around you, dodging away from the location, teleporting out (well there are exceptions like Stomp cause they are clunky but not everything can be a winner).
Those  Stunbreaks that just remove the cc are quite frankly not performing their purpose as a counter skill if they leave you in the same situation as before. 

[Markri.9475]

4 hours ago, Silverpoopoo.1476 said:

This would still allow every player to use their interrupts, but in order to chain them they would have to actually use observation and skill to time them in order to hit the enemy player right after the last stun has worn off

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure the same CC does not stack duration.

A shorter cc will replace an active longer duration cc. Such as bulls charge and an immediate dagger#3.

Not sure about fear as its also a condition.

[Avatar.3568]

8 minutes ago, Markri.9475 said:

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure the same CC does not stack duration.

A shorter cc will replace an active longer duration cc. Such as bulls charge and an immediate dagger#3.

Not sure about fear as its also a condition.

Yes, cc durations don't stack, a feared player gets non feared Iirc. 

If you do a 3 second stun follow it directly up with 0,5 sec daze the player will immediately be able to run

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Or; if you really wanted to simplify things, then damage and cooldowns can just return to what they were pre-2/25/2020

 

Not much reason to invest in CC spam if skills actually did damage and stunbreaks/stab skills didn't take 10% of an entire PvP match to recharge once.

[Downstate.4697]

Weapons need stunbreak skills. As long as you have 3 cc's in a 20s cd and 2 stunbreaks on a 40s cc this will always be an issue. Or increase the cd of long duration cc's like bulls charge.

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

Need diminishing returns (unless we already have it), and all Stunbreaks should give 1 stack of stability after you break out of a stun, or, make it so you get immune to the same type of CC for like 1 or 1.5 seconds after breaking out of it, say you get stunned, you are immune to stuns for 1 second, but you can still get dazed, knocked back, etc.

[Leonidrex.5649]

37 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Weapons need stunbreak skills. As long as you have 3 cc's in a 20s cd and 2 stunbreaks on a 40s cc this will always be an issue. Or increase the cd of long duration cc's like bulls charge.

or you use dodges to avoid the CC, or eat the CC when you know enemy doesnt have any dmg left

[Tayga.3192]

I am not sure if cc really is a problem. It's not a problem in 1v1 sidenode duels, only becomes a problem in larger fights. I think if you are focused in XvX, you should die unless you use your active defenses well and kite a lot.

[De Bourgogne.9642]

CC is not an issue, you are meant to avoid getting cced and when you don't you have stunbreaks.

[Stallic.2397]

Other games have something similar to this suggestion. You have a stun break bar, each cc causes the bar to be filled to a certain max. The value each cc depends on its effect. Varying values for stuns, dazes, etc.

 

Once the stun bar is full. The player can't be cc'd for the next ten sec or so. This method prevented silly cc chains that makes players throw their keyboards at the wall. 

[Stalima.5490]

4 hours ago, McPero.3287 said:

CC is not an issue, you are meant to avoid getting cced and when you don't you have stunbreaks.

 

This is a rather shortsighted way of seeing things because you are ignoring specs that are turning up with about 5 cc mechanics while havig 100-0 damage in 5 seconds, you cannot reasonably be expected to dodge and block every single ability in the game with only 2 dodges, especially when there is 3 people in a game able to cc and dps both to this degree.

 

The damage on cc abilities was never an issue, the raw damage output in the game however, is an issue when compared to  the base health and toughness values.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Stalima.5490

[Dawdler.8521]

The problem has always been diminishing returns for chains of stun and its even more visible in WvW. Its the reason stability got completely remade - it was no longer working and stuns proliferated so much that even zergs got stopped in their tracks.

Being stunned should have an icd lasting 3-5s longer than the duration of active stun.

[Leonidrex.5649]

25 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The problem has always been diminishing returns for chains of stun and its even more visible in WvW. Its the reason stability got completely remade - it was no longer working and stuns proliferated so much that even zergs got stopped in their tracks.

Being stunned should have an icd lasting 3-5s longer than the duration of active stun.

have you ever played a game with such a mechanic ?

[Dawdler.8521]

7 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

have you ever played a game with such a mechanic ?

Sure - GW2. It has such mechanics on things like stab I mentioned (way too low icd IMO though). Marked and revealed for stealth also work similar except for "friendly" skills being unable to apply for a while after revealed.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Leonidrex.5649]

5 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Sure - GW2. It has such mechanics on things like stab I mentioned (way too low icd IMO though). Marked and revealed for stealth also work similar except for "friendly" skills being unable to apply for a while after revealed.

thats a no then.

[De Bourgogne.9642]

3 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

 

This is a rather shortsighted way of seeing things because you are ignoring specs that are turning up with about 5 cc mechanics while havig 100-0 damage in 5 seconds, you cannot reasonably be expected to dodge and block every single ability in the game with only 2 dodges, especially when there is 3 people in a game able to cc and dps both to this degree.

 

The damage on cc abilities was never an issue, the raw damage output in the game however, is an issue when compared to  the base health and toughness values.

Well no you aren't expected to dodge, block every single ability and survive in a 1v3 you are expected to die if you are not on a kite spot, which id say is pretty balanced. And if you are not talking about 1v3 its a 3v3 and you and your team can fight back. Only good specs that has 5 ccs is dagger focus weaver and mantra mirage but that one has 4 dazes. You are also assuming enemy team is playing perfectly together and never overlaps cc, throws it into same dodge.

 

If you think dmg on cc was never an issue you probably never played vs a strenght spellbreaker back in the day.

[Disney.7826]

Thats the most degenerate idea i have ever heard in this game

[Stalima.5490]

6 hours ago, McPero.3287 said:

Well no you aren't expected to dodge, block every single ability and survive in a 1v3 you are expected to die if you are not on a kite spot, which id say is pretty balanced. And if you are not talking about 1v3 its a 3v3 and you and your team can fight back. Only good specs that has 5 ccs is dagger focus weaver and mantra mirage but that one has 4 dazes. You are also assuming enemy team is playing perfectly together and never overlaps cc, throws it into same dodge.

 

If you think dmg on cc was never an issue you probably never played vs a strenght spellbreaker back in the day.

 

I have 5 on my dps Flamethrower build:

 

Static shock, 2s stun (aed toolbelt)

Spare capacitor, 2s daze (shredder gyro toolbelt)

Supply crate, 2s stun (elite)

Overcharged Shot, Launch 2s? (rifle 4)

Air blast, knockback 1s? (Flamethrower 3)

 

Then it also has a 2 second immobilize on the rifle 2, an additional 2 second stun on top of the supply crates 2 second stun from its net turret and a blind mechanic all while being a high damage build.

 

What this means is there is about 13 seconds of cc there spread across numerous different effects and you are expecting people to avoid every single one of them when they only have 2 dodge rolls...

 

The point being, is that you can just cc the hell out of people and still do idiotic levels of damage while doing it making the nerf to crowd control ability damage completely worthless and nonsensical, people are just making up for it with raw damage output anyway and all they succeeded in doing was deleting a few potential builds.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Stalima.5490

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

 

I have 5 on my dps Flamethrower build:

 

Static shock, 2s stun (aed toolbelt)

Spare capacitor, 2s daze (shredder gyro toolbelt)

Supply crate, 2s stun (elite)

Overcharged Shot, Launch 2s? (rifle 4)

Air blast, knockback 1s? (Flamethrower 3)

What this means is there is about 13 seconds of cc there spread across numerous different effects and you are expecting people to avoid every single one of them when they only have 2 dodge rolls...

 

Yes.

Or block them, or blind them, or CC them, or avoid them via kiting.

Static Shock, Supply Crate, and overcharged shot have a telegraph. 

Air Blast doesnt work vs people who know how to fight flamethrower, because they will always be directly on or behind you until you drop it.

You're arguing this in bad faith. Just adding up the total amount of potential stun/cc you can do says nothing about:

* how difficult that chain is to land,

* how risky it is for you to continue the chain, or

*Whether or not that CC can be paired with considerable damage for failing to avoid it.

Keep in mind NONE of the skills above do any damage, so in whatever cc chain you use, you need to find an avenue to apply damage  that allows you to consider the chain, and even a single stunbreak on your opponents bar can trivialize your whole setup. 

We're not going the "nerf cc" route in a patch iteration where people barely have enough damage to kill people. They need to learn to dodge, manage their stunbreaks, and learn the animations of skills thatll stun them. Right now most of those skills, at their best, are  big flashing "you are about to take damage wee-woo" sirens, and I think requiring additional hand-holding than that would be embarrassing.  If we're going to argue whether certain ccs need to be more or less telegraphed for what they can do, then fine, but blanket nerfing? No thanks. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[De Bourgogne.9642]

8 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

 

I have 5 on my dps Flamethrower build:

 

Static shock, 2s stun (aed toolbelt)

Spare capacitor, 2s daze (shredder gyro toolbelt)

Supply crate, 2s stun (elite)

Overcharged Shot, Launch 2s? (rifle 4)

Air blast, knockback 1s? (Flamethrower 3)

 

Then it also has a 2 second immobilize on the rifle 2, an additional 2 second stun on top of the supply crates 2 second stun from its net turret and a blind mechanic all while being a high damage build.

 

What this means is there is about 13 seconds of cc there spread across numerous different effects and you are expecting people to avoid every single one of them when they only have 2 dodge rolls...

 

The point being, is that you can just cc the hell out of people and still do idiotic levels of damage while doing it making the nerf to crowd control ability damage completely worthless and nonsensical, people are just making up for it with raw damage output anyway and all they succeeded in doing was deleting a few potential builds.

I said good builds lmao.

[Obtena.7952]

Pretty weird complaint considering CC attacks do no damage.

[mortrialus.3062]

What CC meta?  There's no CC meta.  The game is necros all the way down.

[Stalima.5490]

7 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

What CC meta?  There's no CC meta.  The game is necros all the way down.

I think a lot of people started to realize that necromancer was vulnerable to lots of stuns and so now there is an insane number of stuns going around

 

11 hours ago, McPero.3287 said:

I said good builds lmao.

 

and what is a good build to you?

 

I hope you are not mistaking overpowered for good, the difference being that a good build performs well and has weaknesses while an overpowered build performs well but does not have any, that is why they have to nerf things from time to time.

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Stalima.5490