New elite specialization: The Vindicator

[Justine.6351]

14 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

if this spec has some tankiness to it which I am suspecting,  the damage and the movement elements alongside Hammer could be meta level. Hammer only works with damage buffing legends like Shiro and Herald. So if the mechanics lock out Shiro or something crazy like that without compensation,  yeah it could be trash in that situation.  But doubt Anet would do something crazy like that.

I wouldn't hold my breath on a tanky spec. Looks like a high risk melee aoe dps.

[RabbitUp.8294]

4 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Warrior was on Twitter 

 

And the Elementalist elite spec silhouette was shown at the end of the Skiff and Fishing guild chat video

How do you do the twitter embed on the forums? I'm too dumb to figure it out.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

This spec looks incredibly boring to me so far and like a Rev copy of Willbender.  Was absolutely hoping for something more interesting and different and the legend choices are meh. 

I'll be cautiously optimistic for Friday, but I'm assuming all the cool stuff was shown off in the trailer so my hopes are definitely low. 

[RabbitUp.8294]

1 minute ago, Justine.6351 said:

I wouldn't hold my breath on a tanky spec. Looks like a high risk melee aoe dps.

At least it has a block, and what looks to be 2 dodges, or one is the dodge replacement.

[BadSanta.6527]

It is going to be intersting you can wiekd shiro in on slot and the other kuzak? 

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Garbage reused animations. Srsly? A gravedigger?! Out of all possible animations you pick the most iconic one from reaper and slap it to another class? Oh boy. Budget calling SOS

[GrayHawk.7560]

1 hour ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

After the disappointment of Willbender, I am refraining from making any sort of major judgments. I don't feel any particular way yet, so hopefully Friday will paint a much clearer picture. I don't mind the recycled Gravedigger animation because it is epic regardless. Color palette of the animations makes me think Exordium would look gorgeous with it.

Exordium's lore is also super spot on for Revenant so yeh I kind of have to make it now.

[Ragnarox.9601]

1 hour ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I think Revenant is good enough on WvW as Renegade or Condi Herald, despite the lack of mobility. It can clear camps easily without problems with ease, (just not as easier as Guardian). If you go power Glint/Shiro you'll have some problems yes, but mainly because that is like clearing camps as a thief. Bring Jalis, Mallyx or even Kalla and you won't have problems clearin camps anymore.

Revenant (WvW) doesn't need more damage buffs, at least not those buffs that are based on pure numbers.

well i am talking about power revenant, condi revenant does not have the problems what ive seen. power is very luckluster and lacking dmg.

[Wintermute.5408]

2 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

VFX =/= animation

 

VFX is the skill effect, animation is the character movement. Virtuoso had no new animations, only new VFX. Vindicator has new VFX, too, so I don't get the complain.

Unless they do mocap (they don't), it's one and the same. Making all the kitten with spinning swords for virtuoso is an animation - within 3D it's a physical object. It's not different from animating a character rig - unless you feel too lazy to do it for the different bodies like male/fem, azuras and charr. But that's what it is. Lazyness.

Not to mention that some effects on WB and HB are also either reused, or literally nonexistent.

[Caid.4932]

4 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

Unless they do mocap (they don't), it's one and the same. Making all the kitten with spinning swords for virtuoso is an animation - within 3D it's a physical object. It's not different from animating a character rig - unless you feel too lazy to do it for the different bodies like male/fem, azuras and charr. But that's what it is. Lazyness.

Not to mention that some effects on WB and HB are also either reused, or literally nonexistent.

They did say this stuff was a work in progress. Maybe they'll add a few new animations between now and February. Just trying to get feedback on feel and balance in the mean time?

[Wintermute.5408]

4 minutes ago, Caid.4932 said:

They did say this stuff was a work in progress. Maybe they'll add a few new animations between now and February. Just trying to get feedback on feel and balance in the mean time?

Hope so.

[Dracomet.3648]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

Yeah but we're not arguing about pof, you stated breaking the rules for this expansion. Shroud was never a negative impact to the class, which can now cut their life in half. The mirage mention was both a shoutout to the dodge mechanic change (same with daredevil), and also a salty wonder if they will treat it the same, nerf them to 1(mirage) or boost them to 3(daredevil), but it's a mechanic that revs never had, plus extra mobility.

 

In any case they've basically shown some of the skills and animations, you can barely fully argue about the spec yet. But hey everyone has a different value for changes, if these are not substantial class breaking rules for you, we can't do anything about that.

Yes, but the devs themselves claimed this expansion will be "breaking some rules" implying PoF didn't. Downsides to elite specs were introduced in PoF, Scourge doesn't have a second health bar, Holos blow themselves up and lose the elite toolbelt, Mirage lose mobility on dodge and has only one dodge bar, these are downsides and are nothing new. I don't see the last three being specs that couldn't be done in PoF.

 

Something radically different would be something like removing dodge entirely if the rev trailer literally means what it says it means since that would be removing basic core mechanic of the game out of the spec. Maybe other classes loses their skill 1 auto attack. Or I've seen suggestions at least prior to reveal, that an elite spec would overwrite the current weapon skills, kind of like how many people were hoping for MH sword on Willbender will be different from core guard, which of course it didn't.

 

Anyway, yes I suppose we have different values for what change means. I want to see something more different to the core mechanics than just "haha guard can teleport a lot now"

[Knighthonor.4061]

1 hour ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

How do you do the twitter embed on the forums? I'm too dumb to figure it out.

Iam on mobile. I just copy and pasted the URL. The forum did it itself 

[Telgum.6071]

30 minutes ago, Ragnarox.9601 said:

well i am talking about power revenant, condi revenant does not have the problems what ive seen. power is very luckluster and lacking dmg.

No it doesn't lack damage lol, it has a great burst damage. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

35 minutes ago, GrayHawk.7560 said:

Exordium's lore is also super spot on for Revenant so yeh I kind of have to make it now.

I definitely want to see what the animation are for it. Tempted to make it but waiting for thr Hammer elite specs to get revealed since i dont have a legendary hammer yet.

[Ragnarox.9601]

16 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

No it doesn't lack damage lol, it has a great burst damage. 

yes thats why every revenant in wvw is using shortbow and condi build. Ive waiting to see one in wvw, zero so far. 

[Tempest.8479]

I'm struggling to understand the criticisms of the reused animations in the trailer. Sharing skill animations across professions isn't new to the Vindicator, or to any set of skills across the game. Just off the top of my head as a Weaver main since PoF launched, I'm pretty sure there's quite a bit of animation reuse on sword. Cauterizing strike/aqua siphon/quantum strike all share the same basic animation, and rust frenzy shares one with blurred frenzy. I think pyro vortex uses the same animation as shackling wave on rev sword. If I'm not mistaken, natural frenzy also shares an animation with zealot's defense (guardian sword) and flaming flurry (berserker sword burst). Those are just a few examples on one elite spec weapon on one profession. I'm sure you can find countless more across all the weapons/utilities/profession mechanics currently in-game. 

 

Do I think that makes all these skills feel the same? No, not really. The vfx and different skill functionalities make them feel pretty different to each other and to the skills they share an animation with. I get that it would be great to have a unique animation on every skill in the game, but that isn't realistic. 

 

All this to say that just because you see a rev spinning like they're using gravedigger in the trailer, or really any time you see a basic animation being reused across professions, doesn't mean that that skill will won't end up feeling significantly different because of the different visual flair or skill function(s).

Edited September 14, 2021 by Tempest.8479

[Telgum.6071]

8 minutes ago, Ragnarox.9601 said:

yes thats why every revenant in wvw is using shortbow and condi build. Ive waiting to see one in wvw, zero so far. 

Lol...? That's why every zerg has one herald per party? Kinda different from what I see in the roaming scene too.

Renegade is easier and deals ranged (more safe) damage, and sevenshot is the only skill that can possibly match a Power Herald combo of Shiro/Glint.

Considering you die to camps as Revenant, is highly unlikely you are going to tell me how bad or good my main is.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[rylien.3824]

What a disappointment, really. It's really bad from bad, they really take their players for buzzards. It's recycling and it is eye-popping. Between the animations and the visual (all rotten) of the Willbender and the Reaper... (the design of the spells is as filthy as the willdbender, it's poor from poor).

Mechanically I expect nothing crazy too...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QYuFqflKRM&ab_channel=GuildWars2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DdvsHDbCJg&ab_channel=GuildWars2

Edited September 14, 2021 by rylien.3824

[Ulysses.2058]

Honestly, if we're going to get recycled animations, we may well get the cool ones. Gravedigger is probably the best GS animation around, so I'm happy we are having it.

And to everyone saying it's one of Reaper's signature moves, I say Soulbeast stole our Unrelenting Assault first, so we are due a compensation.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Ulysses.2058
Typo

[RabbitUp.8294]

1 hour ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

Unless they do mocap (they don't), it's one and the same. Making all the kitten with spinning swords for virtuoso is an animation - within 3D it's a physical object. It's not different from animating a character rig - unless you feel too lazy to do it for the different bodies like male/fem, azuras and charr. But that's what it is. Lazyness.

Not to mention that some effects on WB and HB are also either reused, or literally nonexistent.

You are just blinded by the flashy visuals of virtuoso to notice all the reused animations. 

The devs who do the character rigging are not the same that make 3d assets. That's why animations are heavily reused, and that has alweays been the case since the base game, it's just that you were too oblivious to notice until you saw Gravedigger, since that one is very obvious. 

Also, for what is worth, they do infact do mocap, but for npcs. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by RabbitUp.8294

[Wintermute.5408]

6 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

You are just blinded by the flashy visuals of virtuoso to notice all the reused animations. 

The devs who do the character rigging are not the same that make 3d assets. That's why animations are heavily reused, and that has alweays been the case since the base game, it's just that you were too oblivious to notice until you saw Gravedigger, since that one is very obvious. 

Also, for what is worth, they do infact do mocap, but for npcs. 

Maybe. But I'm a necro main, and we didn't even get the flashy animations -_-

[Ragnarox.9601]

22 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Lol...? That's why every zerg has one herald per party? Kinda different from what I see in the roaming scene too.

Renegade is easier and deals ranged (more safe) damage, and sevenshot is the only skill that can possibly match a Power Herald combo of Shiro/Glint.

Considering you die to camps as Revenant, is highly unlikely you are going to tell me how bad or good my main is.

well from what I have heard and seen nobody plays power shiro/glint, you might play it cause you like it but thats a subjetive thought, objectively power shiro/glint is underpowered and useless in wvw roaming. Yup i die to camps, with shiro I cant take t2,t3, while with my firebrand it goes with ease. 

 

But seen from the video, greatsword adds great aoe dmg so it might be cure for shiro/glint disadvantages. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Ragnarox.9601

[RabbitUp.8294]

3 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

Maybe. But I'm a necro main, and we didn't even get the flashy animations -_-

Speaking of which, they reused the daredevil dash and staff 5 for harbinger. 

And I agree harbinger got the short end of the stick, the elixirs had a new animation, but are boring af, and even the shroud reused the same circle from the FB axe 2.

That been said, I still found har the most fun spec to play, so visuals aren't everything.

[Buran.3796]

6 hours ago, Raknar.4735 said:

I like it. He has Doomfist's (Overwatch) skill.

   More like the Falling Sword skill from Diablo III's Crusader (albeit not as cool, but I'll forgive if does good damage since the one from the Crusader hits like a wet towell...).

Edited September 14, 2021 by Buran.3796