Catalyst Feedback Thread

[Tungsten Monarch.6058]

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Dagger is 240~600 range, so that's melee+ to midrange. It does even decent gap closers compared to hammer so it's already better in that regard. What's the point of having cleave if you'll barely survive encounters though?
Actually it's not great design, because you're just sitting duck in 2 attuments to range pressure and half sitting duck in 2 other attuments, the tools are very bad on that weapon and you have dead skill on all 4 attuments.
There's really no reason for it to be split in the slightest. While running D/D you're still able to do some pressure on enemy, be it from gap closers or even skills, since they do have some variety in range, but hammer is no-no, once you get in wrong attument in wrong time you're just gonna die.

1) You can run dagger / Warhorn,  just fine as Tempest as there is Water Overload for damage mitigation, and warhorn offers two additional heals. 2) You can run Dagger / optional just fine in Weaver as there are barrier options available. This is not the case for Hammer Catalyst. If I wanted to run melee range as a Catalyst I have dagger as an option except, I lose out of Grand Finally that is a rather important skill for the Catalyst.

[Yer.8096]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!

 

Remove Deploy Jade Sphere from a F5 and let it stay like tempest, at the same element. Its soooooo contradictory to attune the entire battle with F1~F4 and have to go F5 to Deploy Jade Sphere! There is no synergy with attunements and elementalist battle!

[The Great Al.2546]

When you have one hammer 3 active, switching attunements needs to automatically activate the next one. It feels so clunky to manage that and the F5

 

also, spoiler alert, this class is still squishy!

[Gamander.7520]

Hammer 3 duration needs to be buffed. I can't even keep 4 spheres up if I do nothing else.

[Yogurt Goblin.5934]

So after trying it out a few times the whole specialization feels off. I think it has been pulled in too many different directions but the main issue I think is that it has the wrong weapon. It is far too slow and elementalist didn't need another close range weapon. I would of prefered longbow or shortbow, with blast and pierce finshers to go with the fields.

 

The trait line feels too pulled apart, it wants to focus on auras for some reason (when the kit doesn't give you many chances to get them), to get bonuses from disabling foes (when the kit has very little CC), or to focus on build the celestial stat bonus (which is kinda underwhelming as most builds focus on a single role e.g. DPS, Condi, tank or support).

 

And finally we have the augments and class skill. These suffer from the same problem elementalist has always faced when the skills change according to what element you are, each one is massively underpowered or too impactful to make up for the fact you have versatility in your skills. The class skill it self feels underpowered when compared to other classes new skills e.g. golems and healing/damage depending on target.

 

To summarise;

• Wrong weapon, either long or shortbow would of been better.
• Pulled in too many different direction to feel like it has a place in the game.
• Weak and disappointing skills compared to other classes.

 

I really hoped for something better than this for the expansion, I enjoy playing new elite specializations, but if this keeps the same as it currently is, I think most elementalists will just keep with weaver or tempest.

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Yogurt Goblin.5934
Spelling

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Lmao, nothing changed, still garbage spec. XD

Problems:

1. Hammer:
   • Only 1 gap closer in Water in melee spec that is 600 range (not counting Air one, since it's just yeet skill);
   • Only 1 block which is weak;
   • Only 1 heal in the entire kit (still need to hit ENEMY to get that heal);
   • NO evades on the SQUISHEST class in the entire game;
   • Pathetic range of 600 units, most if not all roamers have minimum of 900 in WvW;
   • Range skill split, why? What's the purpose of it?
   • Slow as hell skills that have long cast time for some reason, which makes it easier to get interrupted;
   • Low damage on whole kit;
   • Worthless skill "3" which isn't even a passive that does absolutely nothing beside being annoyance "you have to click it every time you swap attuments or kitten yourself", instead of something actually useful, we've got 4in1 kitten that just exists;
   • Lack of any reliable CC skills that would actually pin down an enemy so you could actually GET to them.
2. Jade Sphere:
   • Why does thing doesn't spawn on attument swap under your feet automatically?
   • So far, I haven't even used it once, since it's more work than it's worth;
   • Doesn't have any kind of value beside being "field" and "boons" that are still far behind things like Firebrand in every gamemode;
   • It's duration is short, it's pain to use it ANY competive environment because you already have full hands with managing enemies, yet you have another button to press for barely any effects, it's not even good for tagging enemies;
3. Augment Skills:
   • Barely usable;
   • Healing skill actually valuable;
   • Elite skill may be a bit busted if you would actually balance properly boons in the game, but since then it's nothing to worry about;
4. Traits:
   • Still stat buff stick;
   • 0 interactions with Augment skills or hammer itself, but somehow it has some for Jade Spehere;
   • Why it has interactions with Auras? We have already Tempest for that mechanic;
   • There's nothing entertaining there beside Jade Sphere interactions;

As I though, it's still bad overall in competetive environments like PvP and WvW by a large margin. It's more usable with Daggers and thanks to some buffs to Augment skills, it MAY be usable for staff, but it competes with Weavers in that regard. Jade Sphere is just annoying mechanic that could be just activated on the attument swap alone, there's really no need to have another button for something that has no value and still forces you to target area before deployment. Traits are there just to be there, nothing really great about them beside some boon spam sphere thingie.
This spec is purely a tool for benchmarking on some PvE golem that won't fight back.

•  

Edited November 30, 2021 by TrollingDemigod.3041
Missing letter.

[The Great Al.2546]

Why does the gap closer heal? Wouldn’t you use the gap closer to initiate a fight or when chasing something running away from you? Presumably in neither situation would you need that heal. 
 

also this spec needs to dodge as much as a glass cannon zerker, how is it a bruiser?

[Linnael.1069]

Rest of the spec is actually decent, better than I thought. Traits are still boring but at least there is power in the numbers. There are two remaining pain points:

 

The cooldown after attunement swapping where it doesn't let you spawn the sphere feels AWFUL. You want a certain sphere, so you swap to that attunement right? But then you have to WAIT for some reason?

1. Get rid of the attunement swaps putting cd on sphere.

Can't emphasize this enough, it feels AWFUL. This is the most important thing.

 

2. Hammer will be unused until a problematic bunker spec arises.

No real reason to use hammer over dagger or scepter.  But the heal and barrier values on this spec are absurd. 20 second cooldown earth augment to block for 3 seconds then 3k barrier? You are putting power in the wrong place, hammer needs to be less clunky, have some utility, then you wouldn't need to overload the numbers.

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Linnael.1069

[Lynx.9058]

On 11/29/2021 at 9:35 AM, Tungsten Monarch.6058 said:

Change Hammer range to 1200 and stop pushing this melee nonsense on a class with low health, low armor that can't weapon swap in combat to deal with a changing combat environment, vs classes who can remove themselves from melee combat range with relative ease while they laugh at you for being dumb enough to go melee in a range fight.

aside from the fact that you're pushing this entirely from a pvp point of view when that's only a fraction of the game's content, would it not be better to simply increase the catalyst's health and armor instead of trying to change an obviously melee weapon into a ranged weapons?

Honestly, if you want range equip a kitten staff or scepter.  If I pick up a hammer, I want to bash skulls with it, not screw around at long range wondering why a brute force weapon isn't being used up close.  Things like mesmer greatsword and other "ranged" melee weapons are the worst part about this game.

[A Magical Cow.8176]

Great changes so far!

 

Only thing I would suggest so far is remove the 1sec CD of the Jade Sphere when you attune to a new element. In most cases I find I want to start my combo with the Jade Sphere and this is a big problem.

 

Edit: Also I don't think you need to Jade Sphere on F5, can add it to the element now like the Tempest Overloads.

Edited November 30, 2021 by A Magical Cow.8176

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

The changes were steps in the right direction but it still has issues. 

 

1) the biggest: it is trying to do wayyyy too much in wayyy too little time. You need to cast hammer 3 every 4 sec or so, gain 10 stacks elemental empowerment every 15sec, gain an aura every 10sec, combo as much as possibly, gain energy and cast jade sphere as often as you can, and still deal damage, reposition, and attack. 

2) Hammer skills do not synergies with a low-hp low-armor class. It needs more mobility, blocks, and evades. 

3) Empowered Empowerment trait requires the use of 2 other traits (total 3) to be useful. 

4) You really need to change attunements to adapt to the fight on-hand, not quickly flip to keep up with your upkeeps. This fundamental problem severely weakens catalyst. 

5) It needs some streamlining to help with synergies, timings, and increase effectiveness of this fairly weak class. 

6) getting jade sphere casted can be a chore.

 

FIXES

1: Make hammer 3 on a 10sec timer MINIMUM (i think 12 is needed). Currently you don't have time to cast even 3 other weapon skills,  switch attunement, and hit 3 again. If you dodge, you only get 1 skill. If you are cc'd, it's game over.  This helps problem 1 and 4.

2: Instead of Hammer 3 being a hammer skill, make it part of the profession mechanic and have it cast automatically when changing attunements. Grand Finale will then be Profession Skill 6. Then add new defensive/mobility hammer skills in place of it.  Fire 3 can simply be burning retreat. Air 3 can be an attack skill with evasion frames that gives vigor. Water 3 can be a teleport and heal+condi cleanse. Earth 3 can be a 900 range leap-to-your-target with blind and damage.  This helps problems 1, 2, and 5.

3: increase the stacks of ele empowerment from gaining auras to 3.  Better yet, make it 3 stacks gained power Combo (or 2 if given more combo fields and finishers) instead of based on auras. We have a spec based on auras and again this helps streamline catalyst and give it a focus.  This helps problems 3, 4, and 5.

4: 4a-increase energy gain by 20%. Better yet, just remove energy and give it a 4s CD per attunement. 4b- remove the CD of jade sphere when switching attunements (seriously, why is this here?). This helps problems 5 and 6.

5: Make air 2 a whirl finisher. Make fire 4 a fire field that persists for 3sec. This helps problem 5 by making it more focused on combos and increase synergies.  Add evade frames to Water 2.

6: Make Hardened Auras and Empowering Auras based on combos instead of auras. This should be done in conjunction with Fix 5  Again, this gives catalyst a focus, helps with synergies, and keeps it from trying to do a ton at once by streamlining. Helps problem 5.

Edited November 30, 2021 by SlitheSlivier.1908

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

28 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

aside from the fact that you're pushing this entirely from a pvp point of view when that's only a fraction of the game's content, would it not be better to simply increase the catalyst's health and armor instead of trying to change an obviously melee weapon into a ranged weapons?

Honestly, if you want range equip a kitten staff or scepter.  If I pick up a hammer, I want to bash skulls with it, not screw around at long range wondering why a brute force weapon isn't being used up close.  Things like mesmer greatsword and other "ranged" melee weapons are the worst part about this game.

Why you want to bash skulls on the SQUISHEST class in the entire game in MELEE? Class wasn't made in that in mind in the slightest.
A-net could do 300 IQ play and make Major Grandmaster traits give various ranges for Hammer skills and provide other things to justify the choice outside of hammer weapon.
If you want to smash skulls play warrior, if you want to smash skulls with magic effects play guardian, same level of argumentation...

[Infusion.7149]

Honestly I believe the hammer still needs work but I think jade sphere is greatly improved even if it won't compete with insta-cast mantras. The range being all over the place still remains an issue. If an ele is to use all 4 attunements to keep up the orbs on hammer 3 there should be at least some consistency. If you spend any amount of time in an attunement by choice or if you are CC-ed for example  the orbs drop. Earth attunement auto attack still doesn't have bleeding so the orb retains some of the outgoing damage on the attunement as well : I would think that having all orbs be primarily defensive would go a long way to improving hammer. That way Grand Finale is the offensive option on hammer 3.

In competitive settings the hammer is essentially dead. 600 range on fire attunement and air attunement puts in below scourge range ( as well as power DPS such as herald, power DH) and there isn't any cleave or piercing on hammer fire/air to warrant taking it over staff. With Elemental Celerity changed (and Shattering Ice favoring multiple hits), the value of double meteor (or even double chained shock aura / gale)  is massively higher than anything you can do on hammer especially in WVW with chokepoints.

Because damage drops significantly for the hammer autos at range (it waits for the attack to connect before starting the next attack) increasing range on hammer attunements meant to be ranged would not result in massive damage increases. This is doubly true since you lose all damage from hammer orbs as well. In fact without even using fire traitline I am able to attain the same DPS as hammer autos at melee on staff at range. The design could be far better if the skills have max damage at melee similar to the fan attacks on dagger auto or even new harbinger and virtuoso weapon skills.

With the "no damage on CC" policy , air attunement is especially lacking on hammer : only Hurricane of Pain has any real damage and cleave but once you account for cast times , targets (3 only), and range it's far worse than chain lightning even. Therefore the best way to improve hammer flexibility at least in WVW is to add 5 target piercing on fire attunement auto (Singing Strike) as well as making the 600 range ground target skills (Surging Flames , Triple Sear) all 900 range. This way it could at least compare with power scourge with zero boon rips.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Caid.4932]

I just cant maintain the orbs, at all. Too busy a class with too many limitations in terms of movement speed, maneuverability, speed of attacks and ease of landing them, survivability and stability access.

Its fairly rare for me to be triggering the augment abilities with the corresponding sphere. They spheres dont last long and most of the augments feel like the kind of thing you need to use now and not after swapping attunement, refreshing orb and dropping jade sphere. Setting up to use a block or stun break 5 secs in advance just doesn't work. If i need to heal it has to happen now.

Despite all this wonkiness and ill fitting pieces it feels quite strong and like its damage is potentially kind of crazy when the stars align. Feels like it has some pretty crazy passive bonuses flying around.

Its a good step in the right direction and a lot of good improvements but it needs a good chunk of work in terms of quality of life and ease of use and the vast number of ways enemies can make life difficult. Its still quite frustrating to play.

[Helgaley.3619]

It’s frustrating that, despite there being years of ideas from the community for the next Elementalist elite spec, we received the Catalyst – a spec that has too many mechanics going to even have an identity, with a weapon nobody asked for. Literally all they had to do was give us a new ranged weapon and 70% of the community would have been happy with that alone. Imagine going to a restaurant, taking time to consider and review your options, placing your order, receiving something completely different from what you asked for, and then being asked for feedback on how they can make it better after they ignored you the first time. It's challenging to provide feedback for a specialization that has no clear identity setting it apart from Tempest and Weaver other than being in downstate with a hammer.

Hammer: Hammer feels like an arbitrary choice that was selected for no reason other than “being different.” I really wouldn’t mind it if it had identity, but just like the rest of the specialization, hammer does not know whether it wants to be a melee or ranged weapon. Tempest performs best in melee range because of how overloads are designed, weaver already takes the role of melee brawler with its sword and barriers, so what is the point of a hammer wielding catalyst?

- Either make all of the abilities ranged or replace it with a ranged weapon all together. The community has been very vocal about wanting a ranged weapon, would you please just give us a little fan service and give us what we are asking for.

- Hammer 3 needs to be replaced with something else or changed to last longer. It’s hectic trying to get all of the orbs up and does not feel worthwhile once you get them going.

- Seriously, get rid of hammer and give us a ranged weapon. Why would anyone choose “Catalyst, a steady presence in melee combat” when they could take a sword wielding weaver in celestial gear and achieve that role 10x better than Catalyst?

Jade Sphere: Again, what does jade sphere bring to the table that Tempest cannot do better? What is the purpose of the cooldown on the sphere when you change attunement? Why does it need to be limited by both cooldown and energy cost?

- Get rid of the energy cost and the cooldown. As a mechanic, it is not impactful enough to gameplay to justify so many limiting factors. It could be entirely removed from the specialization, and you literally would not notice the difference in combat.

Traits: Unimpactful. If this specialization is going to even attempt to be better than weaver at melee combat, we need more traits that improve survivability in melee range. It also seems like traits have too many limiting factors – why tie the damage reduction to auras instead of just giving us a damage reduction for wielding a god forsaken hammer in the first place?

- The benefits of the traits should not be tied to auras unless you give us a weapon that can more efficiently take advantage of the fields to grant auras.

- Just to compare, Virtuoso has a minor trait to increase strike damage increase just for standing in melee range, and a grandmaster trait that automatically stocks blades when below the count. Harbinger has a master trait with reduced pistol recharge and increased expertise based on vitality, and grandmaster traits that give flat increases to power or condition damage with pulsing damage auras that happen automatically when in shroud. There seems to be a discrepancy in terms of how traits are being designed for the scholar professions. At this point, the overall design philosophy for Elementalist seems to be “less payoff for more effort,” but that seems to be particularly true for Catalyst and its traits.

I know it isn’t productive to say, but you guys really missed the mark with Catalyst.

[Flori.2194]

It's still too many minigames at once. My head goes like "Hammer 3 on fire, now air for quickness, shattering ice but in wat- fresh air hits back to air for quick, next orb is earth, air again fresh air, oh combos wait let me water 4 in my fire field but orb first, no fire for fire field first elite skill for cd reset now wat- fresh air proc so air for quick- now fire fire field F5 now oh no I missed fire augment, I need leep finisher for an aura in my field oh field went down set it up ag- fresh air again for quick- only 3 orbs oh no..."

 

btw: Aren't combos a pre-HoT thing? I mean you blast your smoke fields in wvw and in pvp you love to blast your own sword 2 water field but anything other than that? Power creep made combos extremely underwhelming and unrewarding und now we have a whole elite spec around combos? Feels like a step back...

[Gomes.5643]

Well I tried the spec again and I still not get what it is supposed to be.... at least with the new changes it is somewhat playable but i would still consider it the worst spec from this generation.

 

Well to be fair i never got the elementalist as a class ..... that may cloud me judgement....

 

Its trait tree is all over the places with aura traits (wasnt tempest supposed to be the aura spec?), this elemental empowerment which needs build up that never happens because you die to quickly, the jade sphere which needs you do stay in it to use its effects but because you have no range you need to move so often (unless you pick staff, but then you have the finishers no longer).....

 

This specs needs a complete redesign imo ..... and to deceide on one theme......

 

[Agrios.9071]

I am not sure how you are supposed to kill anything as a catalyst (with hammer) in wvw. Everything seems to have teleports and more leaps than you. You also have no real lockdown, the only skill that could help is Wind Storm but that either moves you further away from the enemy or you are still atleast in 600 range and cant catch up cause you lack mobility.

 

The skills itself are also mostly underwhealming. Animations way too long for what they do so countering this spec will be fairly simple.

 

Overall this elite spec still seems to lack a real direction it goes to.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Agrios.9071

[Tirilka.6521]

Awful. If this is what they come up with after all the feedback, then I just won't play catalyst at all. Bravo game designers.

[hugo.4705]

So, catalyst V2

1-Hammer 3 skills, the elemental wheel with a rock , a flame, a water and air ball rotating around you disappear too fast! It's impossible Arenanet! Did you thought about peoples with disabilities?

The 3 skills should have at least triple duration, REALLY, what the point, it disappear so fastly, at this point feels like 4 skills slots wasted. Those kills are stil too slow, need to be faster, less time to cast.

2-What the purpose of augments? Really those are more than bad those are SKRITT POOP. Same issue, they are too fast, not enough duration and i don't feel like they bring anything, i can put fire storm signet and summoning elementals instead would be way better than your augments! Need an HEAVY rework. Even the elite augment feels meh. REWORK from zero. Maybe other skills tied to jade sphere? Have to be fast, give concrete boons and not a lot of recharge.

3-That is also a real issue: I haven't noticed a lot of block skill or stun or any disabling conditions like knock-back or launch, i tried that spec on bristleback and karkas and i receive a lot of damages without any ability to block them, so i would be nice if more hammer skills affect conditions like stun or lunch or offer protection.

So that's it for the cons.

For the pros:

This jade sphere is better with only using it in combat. The hammer skills feels more fluid and better in term of damages dealt. Really, what i like with the jade sphere doesn't deplete anymore with time now, it is like an energy bar and i can use it three times like charges and it is very cool and more practical than the version 1, good job on that.

So nice fix Arenanet really, the specialization now feel decent to me and playable but it can still be better 😄

Edited November 30, 2021 by hugo.4705

[suialthor.7164]

Melee isn't working.  The 600 range isn't enough.  The class is simply to squishy.

A simple to play power based 900 yard range elite spec would have been an easy win for you.  Short bow would have been fine.

If you are determined to stick with hammer then the traits need to massively buff survivability.  Then make all of the elements the same distance so you can balance it correctly.  Plus reduce some of the complexity.  There are plenty of other options for "playing piano."

[The Great Al.2546]

The dev went on Teapot's channel and made it sound like this is the best elite skill in the game. What am I missing here?

[Sicarine.3985]

Catalyst still feels extremely clunky. Like a derpy weaver. The orbs lasting 5s, forcing you to att swap every 5s still feels awful, exactly as it did in beta 2. The numbers are there, sure. It can perma quickness. Fine. But it FEELS clunky and awful to play.

Edit: Additionally, the cooldown AND energy requirement on the jade sphere are bonkers. Make it either energy OR cooldown, not both.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Sicarine.3985

[Linnael.1069]

Repeating this from another thread: 

 

Energy is super unnecessary. Currently it serves the purpose of not letting you spam every other sphere on its own cooldown. You have to choose either one of each sphere or the same one 4 times, but can't get each sphere 4 times each. But there's another mechanic which does the same thing way more elegantly: Ammo. 

Just make the spheres use ammo. 

Same restrictions, no clunk.

 

[Squigglez.1236]

I think this class suffered from a lack of focus more than the others. The sphere updates were a good step but not being able to generate energy while any sphere is down and the delay before you can place them after swapping attunements feels awful. The orbs are just impossible for me to maintain.

First, just admit hammer is a melee weapon and balance it that way. Having some range on 2 attunements doesn't matter, you're blocked off from half your skills if you try to use it at range. Also the new orbs are melee radius already and don't do anything if you back off.
Second, this spec is probably squishier than any other ele. I don't know why you're so afraid to give ele a passive vitality buff, but one issue with ele is that they're not always in quick reach of their skills. Putting a single block on hammer that's in earth doesn't help mitigate anything if you're in a different attunement. Either they need something passive to keep them out of downstate or hammer needs to have more skills to mitigate damage. Worse than that, this spec is juggling so many things at once that you end up locked in place. If you don't keep up with combo finishers you lose the 10% damage reduction from hardened auras and the toughness/vitality you gain from empowering auras. Drop the orbs and you lose the 5% damage reduction on earth loop. If maintaining your "Defense" requires you to stick to such a tightly timed rotation that you can't even dodge without losing all the buffs that are supposed to help survive something's broken.

Third, I don't know what the idea is behind the jade orb. At first it was punishing you for recalling it, for combat ending, or if combat moved to a different area. Now you can move them faster for a while but because you can't generate energy while one is deployed it still punishes you because you have to wait for them to end before you can generate energy to place them again. They have a duration and a cooldown like all other skills why keep the energy mechanic? I also agree that it'd be a little less confusing if they were flip over skills like the overloads are.