Vindicator Feedback Thread

[hainese.9216]

I see a lot of $h**posting on these forums saying that the elite spec needs to be scrapped or that people are deleting their revenants because of the new E-Spec for this or that reason... I want to remind everyone that this is a beta and things are in progress. Constructive feedback will help the game get better. Antagonism is the antithesis of productive conversation. I'm sure we all love this game and would like to see it get better, so I wanted to put that out there....

 

Context:

I main rev in GW2 and played a lot of Ritualist, Monk, and Assassin in GW1 - I play a lot of WvW and PvP, and do some fractals and dungeons and general PvE but am much more engaged in the PvP side of things. 

 

Things I really Love:

1) Doge - The dodge mechanic threw me off quite a bit, but once I got used to it I really am enjoying how I can engage or disengage with it - It allows for a long set of evade frames when I really need it while also adding pressure. It could use some tweaks with aftercast - and there are some circumstances where I am mid dodge and get stunned or immobilized and that doesn't feel great - but, with some tuning I expect this will be a really fulfilling mechanic to master.

2) Greatsword - I thought I would hate it, but it is so fulfilling to use... Skills need tweaking, but I don't understand what people are saying about it being low damage, this thing slaps...

3) Traitline - There are a few traits that feel very good and synergetic with different playstyles. For example If I'm Going Ventari + Alliance Stance I can go 1/3/3, or if I'm roaming with Shiro/Alliance I can go 2/3/2 -- there is a bit more work to tune them in terms of their function, but it is a great start

 

Things I think could be Improved:

1) Traitline - the Major Adept traits could become less tethered to the Alliance stance, I have been playing with Shiro/Alliance and Shiro/Jallis. When I am in the latter, I can only choose Redemptor's Sermon which is a great panic button, but I would like some more options when it comes to buildcraft with other legends. The major masters could be more varied - right now they're all relating to endurance or vigor. It would be great to see a damage multiplier on one in the same way we see increased effectiveness with vigor on the other (maybe too many damage multipliers on Rev already...the town isn't big enough)

2) Alliance Tactics/Energy Meld: The flip is super fun, and Leviathan Strength synergizes with that mechanic very well, giving a lot of options for playing with Alliance stance. Similar to Point #1 Energy meld feels underwhelming. If there was an interaction between the F2 and whatever stance you were in (boon, spell, or additional effect similar to true nature or facet of nature) that was powered up by  Leviathan Strength  this would effectivel address #1 & #2 in my mind

3) I would love to see a block or reflect on Alliance Stance in the Kurzick Side, especially when I run Sword/Sword + Greatsword... I really love the damage output and combat of that set... but I'm sometimes missing staff or shield

4) I would love to see a CC option on Greatsword , maybe it ties into the block or maybe on alliance stance - but it would be good for break-bar coverage and activating Contained Temper

[Brynioch.1873]

23 minutes ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

Yeah why not make the "dodge" F2, give us our regular, functional dodges back and allow us to select which of the Alliance utilities we want in the slots? Boom. Problem solved.

It doesn't solve anything as the elites are still medicore at best and some utilities are still bad.

The one dodge mechanic isn't going away so better start living with it or ignore the elite specialization.

 

They could add some damage buffs to the endurance traits based on the method how you get endurance.

 

Reaver's Curse: Gain 2% more damage for each enemy hit by the dodge, gain 2% damage reduction for each ally you hit for 10 seconds.

 

Angsiyan's Trust: Gain a stacking damage buff each time you swap legends (like 7% per stack, 3 stacks, 12sec duration, resets duration on swap)

 

Song of Arboreum: Vigor increases outgoing damage by 12.5%.

 

The cooldowns from legendary alliance stance need to go. When they are removed Leviathan's Strengh needs a rework. And F2 needs something besides 50 endurance in other legends. Energy meld also feels pretty bad with Saint's Shield. You always waste endurance using it and the energy spend feels wasted. Maybe reduce the energy cost to 10 and the endurance gained to 25? Or scale it with the grandmaster traits.

Dodges need to come down faster. Death Drop takes way too long. Imperial Impact also feels too long. Saint's Shield feels pretty good.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Miellyn.6847

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Honestly I wish they would just make each dodge cost 50 endurance and last the same amount of time as Saint's Shield. 150 endurance is just absurd for a single dodge. Adjust the numbers on the effects and call it good.

 

 

[Coolster.2536]

I feel like the Spear of Archemorus should Pierce had have a Knockback/Knockdown/Launch. Feels very underwhelming how it's a super long range single-target damage power. Torment feels out of place, especially for a mostly power/support spec. Maybe there's a Condi Vindicator spec that makes great use out of the Torment, but I don't think a Condi Vindi would run Legendary Alliance in the first place.

 

Just my $0.02.

[Raolin Soulherder.3195]

Been tinkering. It is an interesting concept, but I just can't seem to make it work with the 1 dodge. Even after loading up with all sorts of vigor/endurance sources & traits (minus Energy Sigil, since I can't use the TP on beta character). At least not w/o going the healing direction w/  "Saint of zu Heltzer" grandmaster. The spec doesn't give enough defenses to balance out the loss of a dodge, *especially* in WvW. 

 

Feels too clunky (a recurring theme for Anet lately) for my tastes. Rev was already that way for me w/ the legend/utility locking and this spec makes it worse with all the irregular skill-flipping. The aftercast on the dodges is also annoying, with the pause upon landing. The animation is a giant telegraph to enemies to get their CC's ready for after you land. 

 

Chalk up another e-spec I will probably not be playing if I buy the expac. 

 

 

[CratZII.5872]

My one criticism of the Vindicator E-spec so far is that the Alliance Legend is too forced. All of the tier1 traits assume you are using Alliance. Also the F2 gives best bang for buck with alliance and is pretty meh with other Legends.

I for one would like to see us have a playstyle with greatsword revenant that is useful with any Legend combination. 

 

My suggestion is to give us some trait options that do not require Alliance legend to be useful. For example we did not have any direct trait for Greatsword in the bunch and maybe give us another F2 upgrade that is more generic than "shing jea" (can't remember full name). 

[Matt H.6142]

A great spec.  I understood it immediately, so much so, I didn't need to spend much time with it.  Covers all your bases.  Movement, aoe damage, aoe utility, stunbreak.

Best of the week.  So much so, you give vindicators all these great toys, and then you gave Catalyst augments?  Come on, they don't even compare.

[Brunnsteinangel.2568]

I played WVW last night and for the first time in years I went back to Herald.

And I noticed something.

 

... we already have a Flip-Over legend with Glint.

And it works.

It even mirrors the Alliance idea, with a "selfless start" in boon sharing and a "selfish flip-over" for damage and heal.

 

... Anet, did you forget about the Herald?
And PLEASE take more notes from this e-Spec if you want to go the flip-over route.

Not to mention, change Alliance up a bit and FOCUS it on one thing, preferable power damage, so it doesn't go after Heralds support.

 

And pls tune Herald for PvE!

[Akeno.4962]

[Speaking from a PVE point of view]

Okay, let's see. What does this spec try to accomplish? Is it a healer? A strike damage dps? Some hybrid?

As a pure healer: 

It provides almost no boons that are interesting to keep. I guess you could theoretically try to keep alacrity by spamming Natural Harmony in Ventari and then Imperial Impact as much as you can while in the Legendary Alliance, but it feels clunky and even unrewarding. Why go through so many loops to get what renegade can do just by pressing one skill on cooldown?

From the skill set, healing can be done with either Selfless Spirit, Urn of Saint Viktor, Redemptor's Sermon, or Saint's Shield. These feature some problems:

• All of them are rather mediocre as healing skills. Saint's Shield is kinda fine in that regard since its interaction with Reaver's Curse lets you basically spam it (if you're going for a pure healer spec), but both the Legendary Alliance skills need some up-tuning.
• Redemptor's Sermon feels mostly like a selfheal rather than a group heal. It may not fire when your allies need it. I think it interacts with Urn of Saint Viktor, but why is its cooldown higher then? Even if you changed to Ventari after going through all your Saint Viktor's skills, when you come back you'd be forced to Alliance Tactics to change your Archemorus skills. That would mean that Urn of Saint Viktor is available every 20s, not 30.
• Selfless Spirit only heals. That wouldn't be a problem if basically every skill wasn't bloated with effects, but now it is.
• Urn of Saint Viktor can be cc'd while it's being dropped and it may kill you. For a skill that you pay with both health AND energy, it feels unrewarding that it basically only heals (boons provided have so low duration that they are unimportant).

Finally, I see two other problems:

• At least from a identity point of view, no skill in greatsword provide any healing whatsoever.
• There's no overarching mechanic to any of Saint Viktor's skills. Usually stance skills have some interactions with traits that go for an overarching mechanic (Ventari = healing orbs/soft cc, Mallyx = torment/resistance/selfapplying conditions, Jallis = weakness/resolution/Rite of The Great Dwarf, ...) 

Basically, as its implemented ingame, I don't find any reason whatsoever to run a Vindicator as a healer or to use Saint Viktor's skills in any meaningful or thoughtful way.

As a pure strike damage dealer:

Damage modifiers come from Empire Divided and Forerunner of Death. The first one is okayish i guess, but the second one is awful. Death Drop, right now, is a dps loss so big that the modifier isn't even worthy. I guess the idea with the increased endurance was to try to force some smart use of traits and skills in order to keep the modifier running, but it's not rewarding enough and leaves you defenseless when you may need an evade.

And then there is the greatsword. I understand that you want to keep sword/sword the "assassinate one enemy" feeling, but it needs some up-tuning in damage in order to make it worthy to change weapons mid-combat. The "I'm cleaving many enemies" feeling that you want to go for might need for some of the ranges of the skills to increase, especially the autoattack chain. Also, it feels filled with skills that already exist ingame.

Moreover, we have the skills of the legendary alliance. Archemorus skills do pitiful damage and that's basically all they do. They barely interact with traits, and in those interactions there's no overall mechanic characteristic of Archemorus (same thing with Saint Viktor):

• Amnesty of Shing Jea adds regeneration to Archemorus skills. Why? If I'm going for a pure damage dealer I'm not building any healing power / concentration to make them worth it.
• Leviathan Strength adds nothing when you don't use the Legendary Alliance stance. And then, I'm not sure if it is rewarding in a long enough combat. Since, as a pure damage dealer, you don't want to use any of Saint Viktor's skills, ideally you want to flip them as you enter the legendary alliance stance, but the increased cooldown for Alliance Tactics won't let you. So it may help with a burst in a short combat, but that's it.

Finally, Saint Viktor doesn't provide any damage whatsoever, and its utility skills are very situational. You COULD double tap Reaver's Rage/Awakening, but Selfless Spirit, Battle Dance and Tree Song are considerable dps losses because of cast times or getting you away from the battle, and Urn of Saint Viktor can't be double-tapped.

As a hybrid dps/healer:

First, let's talk about what it would mean in regards to balance. Its dps would need to be in the very high-20'sk to mid-30'sk bracket. That is not feasible with the spec as it is, since a pure dps build benches at the moment that exact dps. Then, encounters would need to deliver more unavoidable damage for it to not be relegated to training squads or statics that want to play safe, unless you want that. And finally, balancing this kind of role can be a nightmare if you consider other game modes. Nevertheless, let's assume you want to take this route.

From an equipment point of view, you'd need to introduce some berseker+healing power, either as a major or as a minor in a 4-stats set. And perhaps a set that features ferocity as a major too, in order to combine them. This kind of role would be easier if it based its damage on conditions, since you can design skills to have pitiful damage modifiers but good condition application, and create some ++condition damage/+expertise/+healing power.

There's also the problem of which legend pairing the Legendary Alliance with. Not any of the base-revenant legends combines damage and healing, so you'd need to choose between dealing damage (and therefore, going Shiro/Jalis) or healing (going Ventari).

Moreover, there's also the problem of which weapon: staff (only weapon available with any healing) deals pitiful damage, so if you go sword/sword or greatsword, all your healing comes from your legend.

Speaking of which, the Legendary Alliance suffers from two halves that don't interact with each other. No Saint Viktor's skills do any damage (in fact, the only thing they do is healing and minimal boon generation). No Archemorus' skills do any healing or any support. Archemorus' skills may be fired of in a rotation-like kind of way (once their damage is fixed), but most Saint Viktor's skills are situational. What are you supposed to do? Fire them of cooldown, losing energy and lowering your dps to not gain any effect? If at least using Saint Viktor's skills granted you damage modifiers, and using Archemorus' skills granted you healing modifiers... In any case, I think some of Saint Viktor's skills should be redesigned to not be situational so that you can fire them off-cooldown.

Another thing is the energy costs. Each of these "half skills" feature similar cooldowns and energy costs as full skills from other legends. Right now, creating a rotation that goes through both Archemorus and Saint Viktor skills is very energy constrained.

And then, there are the jumps. Why does Imperial Impact extend boon duration, if the spec isn't about boons really? A missed chance to combine Death Drop and Saint's Shield in a jump that deals both damage and healing, but in a lesser quantity. Is the idea that while in Archemorus/Shiro my available heal is Saint's Shield (Redemptor's Sermon can't be procced at will)? Or that while in Saint Viktor/Ventari my greatest damage option is to Death Drop? Both these options seem clunky to me (I can attest, however, that Saint of zu Helter combined with Reaver's Curse lets you spam the healing jump as much as you want)

There many solutions to having a dps and a healer stitched together but not interacting with each other. One among many, is the following:

• Change Spear of Archemorus to be an upkeep. Archemorus keeps firing spears until you deplete your energy or take the Urn of Saint Viktor. Adjust damage and range.
• Greatsword skills deal increased damage while you become the Urn of Saint Viktor (now decreasing your life does have a pay-off) and provide healing while Archemorus shoots spears (adjust healing to greatsword's slow rhythm).

        Otherwise, create a trait where Saint Viktor's skills provide a damage modifier and Archemorus' a healing modifier.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Akeno.4962
Posted while incomplete

[yLoon.5289]

Arena are just short of funds to create this expansion. Pity.
All of the elites thus far, there is really nothing much to be impressed.
Recycle of old animation with very very minimal new animation created.
I don't see much passion in it.

The expansion will only looks appealing to first timer while most veteran players are immune to it.

[Genesis.8572]

4 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

Honestly I wish they would just make each dodge cost 50 endurance and last the same amount of time as Saint's Shield. 150 endurance is just absurd for a single dodge. Adjust the numbers on the effects and call it good.

How dare you propose such a simple fix for an overly engineered self-created problem?! 

[Blakhart.5024]

I enjoy the Great Sword skills.

I find each of them useful, different and solid.  I love the Aoe damage on the 5 skill, even if it isnt as potent as warrior axe 5.


I do not enjoy the "flipping" utilities.

i DO enjoy the utility skills.  Like, I have no issues with the skills themselves and found them good, except maybe the Urn which was just weird.

I didnt like the whole flipping mechanic.

it seems impossible to create a fluid build/theme with this spec because of how the utilities are handled.  If im aiming for a pew pew build, i do not want my AoE damage utility to be replaced by something else.  Or for my dash forward utility to get replaced with a backwards dash, when thats not what i want.

While flipping them with F2 is coool....it also means that my utilities are ALWAYS going to be out of sync, when looking at the utility bar holistically, and I will never have 100% of my intended options available at any given time once I start using the utilities.

This is just abd design.  I applaud the effort and the thought.  But it just doesnt hash out in gameplay.

I am also very leery about a single dodge.  YOu guys have created way too much AoE and nasty stuff to get away from in this game to limit a class to a single dodge.  No sir.  No.

[Axl.8924]

I?ve been messing aroudn and the spec is kinda growing on me a little. I might even make rev just to play this new spec in the future if i get a chance. I kinda wonder though does      chill and slow help with breakbar? 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Axl.8924

[sgtmiles.5712]

My second post in this topic. After trying Vindi the 3rd and 4th time, I guess I am having fun (just a  little) in PvE. Like soloing PoF Hero Points bosses. Joined some bounties too. Although my eyes are always on the skill bar most of the time. It will take time I guess, as when I am learning Renegade, as they say, this class is kind of different. You need muscle memory, and that is what interests me most, out from the maintream class that everyone can play. 

 

Vidicator is in Beta, things will probably change depending on our rants. Hehe. However, this espec has no CC. Yes you can use staff and swap to other legends with CCs. Fine. Lets put aside the animations and eye candies for the time being and the rants about these and those. What worries me most is that, on end game contents. e.g. Fractals. What will be our role/s? There are a ton of e-specs that can do high DPS already. Healing and quickness? We have HB, who needs Vindi's support skills? HB can do all those -- better. At the current meta, HB+Alac+DPS is the players' standard when grouping on end game contents. In this beta specs, Vindi's spec will not nor equal to the DPS output of FB condi, nor DH nor Scour, etc. -- because Vindi IMHO is a hybrid spec. A little bit of this, and a little of those. Who will need us Vindicators in end game contents? When I'm soloing HPs with Renegade condi, snap, done in a minute or less. With Vindi, I can clear it, but twice or even 5th-fold of the time spent (or even more). I believe it has a bad DPS output, probably because of the unnecessary ceremonies of dodging, switching, etc.  before making damage. Finally what makes Vindicator a viable ally in end game contents, what's new in the table if the things it can do can be done (easily and better) with other specs. 

[Poseidon.1839]

The vindicator is pretty interesting, however I don't understand what is the point of the ult urn, its worthless, if the healing also effected and you can have it activate to heal you and allies I would understand at least then there would be a reason to use it and it would pulse heals to you and anyone around you, but having it damage me and heal allies, not even that much I don't see the point, I tried it in fractals and raids it is not that impactful and it just causes me to die fast and even if i was to reuse it the healing isnt enough to survive or do anything might as well not even be there.

 

generally looking at all the 6 specs that have been shown thus far, I would say that it seems like Anet had some good ideas, but are not sure how to execute them they don't feel as exciting or impactful as the previous two.

[Kidel.2057]

48 minutes ago, Genesis.8572 said:

How dare you propose such a simple fix for an overly engineered self-created problem?! 

That would solve (partially) the issues on offensive dodges. That's why I'm not really focusing on those. They can be fixed mostly by tweaking the numbers. Alliance on the other hand is a total mess that can't be fixed just by adjusting numbers and "git gud". There are fundamental design flaws in how the flipover is conceived and in how F2 has 2 totally incompatible functions at the same time while being in Alliance.  

Edited September 23, 2021 by Kidel.2057

[Gomes.5643]

So after testing the Bladesworn and having a blast with it I changed to the vindicator and also tried running drizzlewood coast, because I really liked the concept behind the spec. And I must admit that I am a little bit disappointment. Surely after getting used to the new doge-mechanic I had fun playing it but I always felt that I am missing the overarching theme of the spec. It is not as bad as the first three elite specs, but it feels like three mechanics/gamestyles (dogde, dmg, healer) glued together with not much to support each other .......

 

Most fun-killing aspects where that increadible long time without dogde - which meant I either get myself to safety and miss the target or i go offensiv and die afterwards - and that regardsless if playing healer or dmg the other side felt really useless to me ....

 

I am not entirely sure how to solve this but this would be my idea:

 

- Embrace the theme of sacrifice for the good of others (and you) for the kurzick skills. Give them some options the sacrifice their own life to get buffs and Endurance generation for themselves and allies. That would give them a new support option currently vacant and in a dmg build I might want to use some of the skills to pay for that ridiculus expensive dogde roll.

 

- Give Life Leech to the luxon skills. When the theme is sacrifice for the kurzick side then as healers we need some additional tools to get that health back. When building dmg you can have some life leech traits (i think in shiros trait tree) but when playing healer I probably dont want to bring shiro.

 

This changes hopefully would give the spec a gameflow of sacrifice for powerups and then regaining health back from attacking. Oh yes and also please incorporate some of the support also in the greatsword.

[phokus.8934]

Revisiting F2, it needs to cost no energy or 5.  Right now it’s way too punishing as the gs and other utilities have fairly high energy usage.

[Axl.8924]

Question how much have you guys managed to pull of with that jump move thing adn sermon and the barrier?

 

[jokobet.6081]

This is purely from a PvE perspective, mainly Raids and Fractals and Open World: It feels like Vindicator is not made for PvE.

- Boon extension is redundant with Herald and not enough to push a heal spec in PvE, otherwise heal Herald and Tempest would be more than just niche, the latter purely for it's OP might generation, rebound and open design.

- Being a hybrid damage/heal build is redundant with Renegade (yes, Renegade is overtuned but it is what it is, so are Firebrand, Scourge etc.) and to a lesser degree Herald.

- The dodge is clunky and takes you out of the fight for way too long for a minimal benefit. I'm sure you can tweak modifiers but it's killing the flow, it's hard to tell where you character is, he might even take fall damage (lol) and why does the dps dodge have to be the slowest animation, given that dps rotations tend to be fast paced?

- If I want to do damage, the heal part (St Vincent) is annoying to get rid of. The issue might be lessened when healing but why would you ever run this heal spec in PvE? It brings nothing to the table, absolutely nothing that you can't do better with Herald or Renegade. The only relevant heal spec in PvE without access to significant buffs or boons is Scourge for its hard res potential, Vindicator has nothing and will end up like Scrapper - unused.

- It sorely lacks CC, especially on the Greatsword

- Both elites need a rework, especially the urn.

- Greatsword feels bland, I am missing something interesting here. Warrior's GS has a clear feel to it, Ranger's GS is very unique with the in-built combos. Vindicator's GS is a generic [insert weapon type] that does [insert damage number] to [insert number of targets] with a tad of chill on it. Chill is not a noticeable condition on targets in PvE.

- Everything feels so slow, where is the sweet fast action that Revenant is known for?

- The flipover skill has no interaction with other legends, Rev has done better in the past

- The traits are way too one-dimensional and there is not a lot of interaction with other traitlines

•  

I do think that Vindicator has a ton of potential in PvE but it needs to decide what it wants to be, at the moment it seems to be in an identity crisis because nobody needs a healer in PvE that does nothing but healing and for a damage spec, it's too clunky, slow and lacks fun combos.

Maybe Vindicator is supposed to be a pure WvW/PvP spec, similar to the original Scrapper? It might be awesome there but it would be nice if it did something in PvE, too.

Edit: Oh yeah, and many people were hoping for a good power spec for Revenant because it has covered the other bases pretty well in PvE but this is clearly designed as a hybrid spec, so we're getting the 3rd hybrid spec for Revenant. Is that really necessary?

 

So what is good?

- I still like the idea and I think there is potential if the dodge fits into the fast-paced flow the flipover skills and Rev in general demand. If we get proper trait and skill interactions and a good flow as well as some output, this will become a super fun class to play.

- I like that GS has good cleave and some mobility

- If the healer side gets some utility, it might find a role because the healing numbers are very strong. Unfortunately, role compression is what matters for healers, not healing numbers.

 

Please figure out what this spec should be good at and tweak it accordingly, and please rework the dodge so that it feels smooth and fits into the flow. Thank you for your time.

Edited September 23, 2021 by jokobet.6081

[yohoia.1850]

I like the Vindicator and will definitely play it.

However, the Urn skill is terrible and there should be a way to lock the legend and avoid flipping.

[yohoia.1850]

13 hours ago, Raffart.4087 said:

Urne looks nice but it’s a suicide button.

Exactly. Would definitely like a rework here

[Xaylin.1860]

The Vindicator overall

Let's get the elephant out of the room first: Mirages are quaking.

Vindicator is a lot of fun. I do like the legend, most traits feel at least somewhat meaningful and the dodge modification is successful as well. Personally, I got a weakness for Ventari and appretiate this alternative to Renegade as my second Legendary. Never really liked Ventari when paired with Herald. To be honest, Vindicator is probably too good and does way too much (not in sense of meta but when speaking diversity). The alliance swap is one thing. But did it really need that dodge-mechanic on top of it? I'm not sure.

 

Sidenote: I didn't do too extensive testing on this specific topic. But the damaging conditions on Vindicator feel like an afterthought. I first thought Torment on Chill could work but it just doesn't feel worth it to go power/condi hybrid. At this point, those condtions might as well be removed completely.

 

Legend and F2

While I'm a bit surprised to see another Jade Wind related Legendary, it does fit Cantha for sure. I never played GW1 and am not a lore geek. But as far as I read on the wiki, I miss a clearer nod to Vizu since she was part of this whole getting rid of Shiro shenanigan. This could easily be done via F2, traits or maybe the GS. Not too important, but it would just be nice and feel consistent.

I get why F2 is there but it also feels a bit like a cop-out from the flip-over mechanic. I'd rather have it reset with Legend swap and flip overs not having a CD. If it stays this way, I'd at least prefer it NOT to grant Endurance when in Alliance stance but only when in other Legends. Due to other traits, Endurance doesn't really feel like an issue to begin with.

As mentioned earlier, I feel that with the 2-part Legend and the dodge mechanic this spec is a bit too crowded. I think the dodge-effects could have easily been incorporated into the Elite-skills which at this point are probably the skills I care the least about on this spec (the urn is pretty, though, haha...). I don't expect it to change to such an extent at this point, though. The Utility skills feel alright. Maybe even a bit too cheap resourcewise.

 

Greatsword

Not much to say, really. Nice solid versatile weapon. I really wasn't looking for yet another GS but it's alright I guess. I do like the Chill and the synergies with Devastation. Visual critique: The skill icons are way too blue for Revenant.

 

Traits

Adept traits offer quite some versatility and Grandmasters do matter for a change which I like. My biggest issue with Vindicator traits can't really be narrowed down to just one, but the overall bundle:

The one-dodge was somewhat marketed as a trade-off of the spec. However, at least when going for Vassals of the Empire or Saint of zu Heltzer I rarely ran out of Endurance. Ever. And even with Forerunner of Death it wasn't too bad. It basically felt like Vindicator only had just 1 Dodge bar to prevent a programming/mechanical issue rather than actually creating a trade-off. This doesn't have to be an issue but it's still somewhat confusing since it was presented differently. And it's most definitely a slap into every Mirages face. I don't want to make it about Mesmers in this feedback. But I feel that specs should be held to the same standards and this isn't the case here. Unnessarily so.

[Erebus Ashsworn.9476]

Alliance stance could use some more distinctive gameplay to separate it out from other legends. It could lean in more to the theme of alliance between Archemorus and Saint Viktor.

 

At the moment, the 6-10 skills have no interplay with each other. You have the option of hitting F2 to flip all the skills over, but there's no trade off.

 

One way to build on the Alliance theme and make some interesting choices could be for Archemorus and Saint Viktor skills to empower or alter the next flip over skill in some way. This would make hitting F2 a trade-off where you can flip skills instantly to get back to a particular set, but lose empowerment.

 

Or, maybe giving flip over skills a shorter cooldown if triggered by using the skill instead of F2?

At any rate, I didn't get the sense I was playing an Alliance of two legends, more the case of just two sets of skills on one toolbar which really don't interact with each other at all.

 

I'm sure there's some more interesting gameplay options available in exploring that theme some more. Other people have more detailed feedback about individual skills and the GS so I'll leave my feedback to this.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Erebus Ashsworn.9476

[Revolution.5409]

I would prefer to have two dodges and the attack was shifted to f2.