Please put an end to bauble farming

[Rinagal.9235]

11 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

My post was in response to you comparing gameplay lengths of the metas. You’re changing directions by now speaking about reasons why players do a particular meta. 

Yes, but length is only one factor, i explained why DS is still played even thought it is long. I didn't say length is only reason VB meta is unpopular.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Rinagal.9235

[mythical.6315]

21 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

Yes, but length is only one factor, i explained why DS is still played even thought it is long. I didn't say length is only reason VB meta is unpopular.

Your post didn’t mention other factors and was about  length. My response was to your post where you spoke about length. Rather than respond to what I had said, when I questioned what you said in your post, you just changed subjects.

Edited September 25, 2021 by mythical.6315

[The Greyhawk.9107]

How about no.

[Rinagal.9235]

49 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Your post didn’t mention other factors and was about  length.

It's not true. My post.

 

Part about length.

Quote

VB night meta lasts 40 minutes and most of it is actual gameplay unless you liching, while TD and AB each lasts around 20 minutes with only 5-7 minutes of actual gameplay and the rest is either afking or looting.

 

The "it's not enough to just do meta to get most profit out of it" part.

Quote

Aside from it unlike in any other HoT map you can't buy keys (crowbars) for map currency, so you actually have to do pre events to be able to loot airship cargo.

 

The "it requires more effort from each individual player" part.

Quote

On top of it put that it is expected from player to act independently rather than follow tag, many players don't like this, for some reasons they prefer to stick with huge zergs.

 

The "it doesn't has good enough rewards to motivate players, especially experienced players" part.

Quote

All these things to get Bladed Armor Box, which to be honest is pretty good reward worth of 8-10 gold alone, but problem is it can't be converted to gold, more or less experienced players don't need it and new players most probably don't even know about it neither do they have enough experience and knowledge to get to T4 if not backed by experienced players.

 

 

It's your problem that you saw only the "length" argument in my post, not my.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Rinagal.9235

[mythical.6315]

11 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

It's not true. My post.

 

Part about length.

 

The "it's not enough to just do meta to get most profit out of it" part.

 

The "it requires more effort from each individual player" part.

 

The "it doesn't has good enough rewards to motivate players, especially experienced players" part.

 

 

It's your problem that you saw only the "length" argument in my post, not my.

And note that my post was referring to you comparing the lengths.  It was not about anything else. I’ll make it easier and quote the specific part about the length and restate my response to it. 
 

Quote

The thing is, both bauble farm and VB meta are good examples of "optimising fun out of game". VB night meta lasts 40 minutes and most of it is actual gameplay unless you liching, while TD and AB each lasts around 20 minutes with only 5-7 minutes of actual gameplay and the rest is either afking or looting.

And how much gameplay/time is required for Dragon’s Stand?  Just because some metas are longer than others doesn’t mean that there’s a problem.

[Rinagal.9235]

40 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

And note that my post was referring to you comparing the lengths.  It was not about anything else. I’ll make it easier and quote the specific part about the length and restate my response to it. 

But you can't just pick one of my arguements, isolate it from every other and by arguing it disprove my whole point. There are couple of other long meta-events played by players, there are reasons why players still play those and don't play VB, reasons that not related to design quality of gameplay and i explained these reasons for DS meta speciffically. Dragon's Stand meta probably would be more popular if Advancing on the Blighting Towers were unnecessary pre-events and meta was only the Mouth of Mordremoth part, so it's length probably play negative role in it's popularity.

 

So if you wanted to prove there are long meta-events in the game played by players, you are welcome to it, but it doesn't disprove my point in any way.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Rinagal.9235

[mythical.6315]

6 hours ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

But you can't just pick one of my arguements, isolate it from every other and by arguing it disprove my whole point. There are couple of other long meta-events played by players, there are reasons why players still play those and don't play VB, reasons that not related to design quality of gameplay and i explained these reasons for DS meta speciffically. Dragon's Stand meta probably would be more popular if Advancing on the Blighting Towers were unnecessary pre-events and meta was only the Mouth of Mordremoth part, so it's length probably play negative role in it's popularity.

 

So if you wanted to prove there are long meta-events in the game played by players, you are welcome to it, but it doesn't disprove my point in any way.

Players looking to do metas can use the LFG beforehand to pull in players to their map instance. This tends to be more successful if they do it around the prime time hours for NA or EU depending on which servers they’re on. They can also look and see if there are any guilds which dedicate themselves to these metas.

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

Um, this thread is a mess of different issues, that have little to do with one another.  Further inserting causation into the mix, blaming one issue on another does not make sense.  There are no silver bullet HoT takes that will fix anything.

 

1) afk farming is a problem... everywhere.  Yet it is not the cause for all the ills in the world. (leave this issue to Anet and out of the forums)

2) active bauble farming is a "play the way you want" issue.

3) poor meta participation is its own problem... a multivariant problem involving time investment, meta rewards, tedium vs interest, and so much else.  A single factor is not to blame for low map participation.

 

Of all the HoT maps VB has the least popular meta.  It is also the best map to gather, or catch an HP train.  Complaining that other players are not playing correctly is not constructive or healthy.  Creating a Squad and recruiting in lfg to create interest would be constructive and healthy, but not necessarily effective.  Yet, it does work for HP trains.

 

Lecturing players or getting angry in forums (or map chat) is only effective in other driving players away from you.  Use kindness, enthusiasm and virtuous persuasion... and stay clear of authoritarianism.  People are here to play, and play is subjective.

 

1) Go ahead and brainstorm ways to improve the VB meta, in a VB meta thread.

2) Go ahead and brainstorm ways to organize and recruit to create active meta maps.

 

VB is my favorite HoT map, but that is partially because I am not super "into" metas.  VB map instances are mostly dead, when baubles are out of rotation and a HP train isn't passing through.  I have no answers and inflict no blame, but this thread isn't helping... and will probably be deleted or locked like the last one.

 

Be the change you want to see in the world.

 

[MarkoGold.7126]

I completely agree with ending this farm specificaly in verdant brink because its EXPLOITING infinite spawning events to get a ridiculous amount of money. i know multiple people who make 2.5k gold per week when that is up just from their main and alts. this needs to stop.

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

2 minutes ago, MarkoGold.7126 said:

I completely agree with ending this farm specificaly in verdant brink because its EXPLOITING infinite spawning events to get a ridiculous amount of money. i know multiple people who make 2.5k gold per week when that is up just from their main and alts. this needs to stop.

 

In one day cycle an active bauble farmer can earn ~15g in baubles for 1h15m of playing.  Many activities and modes of play provide about the same return, even gathering.  Yet, mentioning "mains and alts" in relation to the bauble farm, strongly implies you are actually discussing afk rev farmers who are also multi-boxing and multi-accounting.  That is unfairly conflating two topics, only one of which is against the rules.  I hear afk rev farmers get ~30% credit, so to get to 2.5k gold per week, they'd have to be breaking more rules than just afk farming (500 day cycles is longer than a week).

If someone actively plays over 100 day cycles in a week to get 2k gold (playing over 115 hours in a week) then they can do it in more interesting ways than a bauble farm.  Not against the rules, just very very boring.

[MarkoGold.7126]

1 minute ago, Random Wax Orc.7695 said:

 

In one day cycle an active bauble farmer can earn ~15g in baubles for 1h15m of playing.  Many activities and modes of play provide about the same return, even gathering.  Yet, mentioning "mains and alts" in relation to the bauble farm, strongly implies you are actually discussing afk rev farmers who are also multi-boxing and multi-accounting.  That is unfairly conflating two topics, only one of which is against the rules.  I hear afk rev farmers get ~30% credit, so to get to 2.5k gold per week, they'd have to be breaking more rules than just afk farming (500 day cycles is longer than a week).

If someone actively plays over 100 day cycles in a week to get 2k gold (playing over 115 hours in a week) then they can do it in more interesting ways than a bauble farm.  Not against the rules, just very very boring.

yes i am mentioning multiboxing which is not againt tos in pve, with active farming your alts can get 40-45 baubles per meta if you have like 5 alts and 1 main gathering for them its 5 x 15 gold for one meta, all by exploiting this event that infinently spawns. that is the problem and that needs to stop.

[Hashberry.4510]

Anet probably needs to change the stone heads so they are not events. That will be a shame, but it is not the first time farmers have screwed up good thing.

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

22 minutes ago, MarkoGold.7126 said:

yes i am mentioning multiboxing which is not againt tos in pve, with active farming your alts can get 40-45 baubles per meta if you have like 5 alts and 1 main gathering for them its 5 x 15 gold for one meta, all by exploiting this event that infinently spawns. that is the problem and that needs to stop.

 

I agree this needs to stop.  I disagree with conflating this with the bauble farm.  Referring to either "ending multi-boxing" or "ending rev afk event credit" as "ending the bauble farm" is an unfair framing of the issue.  That is the problem with this thread I outlined in my first reply.  If the bauble farm is in some small part a "good thing" it shouldn't be blamed and trashed because of other issues.

[Jilora.9524]

29 minutes ago, MarkoGold.7126 said:

yes i am mentioning multiboxing which is not againt tos in pve, with active farming your alts can get 40-45 baubles per meta if you have like 5 alts and 1 main gathering for them its 5 x 15 gold for one meta, all by exploiting this event that infinently spawns. that is the problem and that needs to stop.

Really dude. You are talking about players who have 6 accounts and can log them all in and take advantage. So it's a whole 400g a week for say me with 1 logged in account and not always available because baubles rotate weekly. I really thought this was an actual exploit. Blame anet for allowing afk revs to get credit or necroes minions or w/e the afks are doing and not shut the whole farm down because a few are rocking 6 accounts online at the same time. 

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, MarkoGold.7126 said:

all by exploiting this event that infinently spawns

By what standard or definition do you consider farming those events to be an exploit?

Edited September 25, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Tiviana.2650]

23 hours ago, Drexl.7049 said:

you're probably mis-reading the post. It's the AFK farming part that's bannable (using software to buff things and get you credit), not doing it normally.

There seems to be two or more complaints in this thread, some justified , some not. It started off with nerf VB bauble farming because people are not participating in the map meta. Then it went on to add in afk bots, multiboxers, remove all baubles, force everyone on the map to do the meta.

There are different things here you cant lump them all under the same umbrella. I hate cheaters hackers, and people that use bot software. But it that really whats happening here? What I see are people that will go to the zone and some do the bare min to get the reward, while others do the best they can covering the area. I have not seen autobots cept very few times, what I see are a bunch of players doing the bare min to get a reward, and thats everywhere. Not all are bots just people that want to do less for more, but I dont think nerfing the rewards for everyone is the answer. Lots of players do the whole meta, its hardly fair to punish them.

 

I watched a player or bot the other day in Kourna, it dont seem like a very efficient way to earn gold. In the time it took his minions to kill one mob I had already killed 5. You know no one was sitting there playing because how effing boring to sit in one spot mindlessly slow grinding mobs 24/7.  These are most likely foreign accounts that are gold and illegal gem sellers , most games are inundated with them. Im actually surprised gw2 dont have as many as I have seen in other mmos. The moral is all you can do is report and its up to anet to handle the facts. But nerfing rewards for players is not the way to do it, you only make the legitimate player suffer along with the bots.

 

 

[Linken.6345]

47 minutes ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

There seems to be two or more complaints in this thread, some justified , some not. It started off with nerf VB bauble farming because people are not participating in the map meta. Then it went on to add in afk bots, multiboxers, remove all baubles, force everyone on the map to do the meta.

There are different things here you cant lump them all under the same umbrella. I hate cheaters hackers, and people that use bot software. But it that really whats happening here? What I see are people that will go to the zone and some do the bare min to get the reward, while others do the best they can covering the area. I have not seen autobots cept very few times, what I see are a bunch of players doing the bare min to get a reward, and thats everywhere. Not all are bots just people that want to do less for more, but I dont think nerfing the rewards for everyone is the answer. Lots of players do the whole meta, its hardly fair to punish them.

 

I watched a player or bot the other day in Kourna, it dont seem like a very efficient way to earn gold. In the time it took his minions to kill one mob I had already killed 5. You know no one was sitting there playing because how effing boring to sit in one spot mindlessly slow grinding mobs 24/7.  These are most likely foreign accounts that are gold and illegal gem sellers , most games are inundated with them. Im actually surprised gw2 dont have as many as I have seen in other mmos. The moral is all you can do is report and its up to anet to handle the facts. But nerfing rewards for players is not the way to do it, you only make the legitimate player suffer along with the bots.

 

 

You know that they are doing that when they are not activly playing so it is just extra coin added on top.

Iff they and you play activly lets say 6 hours that you earn 14g in.

Then you go do other stuff and then sleep.

The other guy turn on automated farming and earn another 3-5g while doing other things on second screen even more if they risk to run it while sleeping.

 

That is why people are against it.

 

Im glad this thread cleared up MarkoGold.7126 claim that 1 guy could earn 2500 gold in bubble farm a week.

Never once before had they said that the guy needed 6 accounts to complete said task.

[Tiviana.2650]

8 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Im glad this thread cleared up MarkoGold.7126 claim that 1 guy could earn 2500 gold in bubble farm a week.

Never once before had they said that the guy needed 6 accounts to complete said task.

Okay here is the problem, multiboxing is not against the rules. If he is using bot automated software then yeah, but if not its not against the rules. A multiboxer will earn more because he has more accounts, if I wanted to sit at the pc for 6 hours i could earn a lot too. But i dont my playtime is 2 hours straight on a good night if im lucky. most times its log in for maybe 30 min do something then log off. as i said and has been said over and over report people you think are using bot software and let anet decide. They are the only ones with access to the account to see whats happening. There are timestamps on everything in this game, so its pretty straightforward for them to see what a player was doing at x time.

[Crackmonster.2790]

Verdant brink is one of the top maps of all mmo's in my opinion, if theres really so many afking then please do changes coz it would be sad to let all that goodness go to waste.

[Bingus.4236]

They are not good on Auric Basin either because they don't want the south event finished as they can repeat parts of it over and over, then they get abusive to people not involved that do finish it. Bauble train playstyle is 2 fps messing up events for people just playing the map normally, they are the worst of the game.

[nirg.7052]

the problem is the amount of time put into metas, VB night is one, dragons stand another, where the time invested aint worth the reward.

and also most metas where you gain x% participation is lackluster in rewarding you for it, so why try hard?

you sould instead ask the question, souldnt anet up the reward for more things in the game and active gameplay? Yes, yes they sould.

Same goes for old content metas in tyria, like orr metas and the dailies and dungeons and simply just events on maps overall.

most rewarding metas are dragonfall/drizzel( drizzel, when including the clovers).

 

thing is, nothing about doing metas or events are hard, so the reward doing them is gold/h so people will do whats rewarding/h or what they can get away doing while doing something else on the side of playing the game.

Anet sould make it rewarding to be active and play the game.

sidenote on that, its not rewarding doing events solo, reason > less spawns > less loot more time.
The game reward you in gold to play mindlessly and zerg everything.

Edited September 26, 2021 by nirg.7052

[Astralporing.1957]

On 9/24/2021 at 9:04 PM, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

A full VB meta requires participation from  everyone on the map to defend points, finish events, etc.  10-20 people afking in a spot can stop the VB meta from getting to the  maximum tier.

Not really. Why? Because if those 10-20 people were gone, they would not have been replaced by players willing to do meta anyway. VB simply does not get the population levels required to get to higher completion tiers anymore - and that's not a recent thing, but something that started happening long before PoF entered the picture.

Honestly, yes, afk farming is bad, and bauble farming is a very degenerate form of play (and something should probably be done about it at some point). It's not bauble farming that is causing problems with VB as a whole hower - out of all 4 HoT maps, this one just happens to have the worst event/meta design. In fact, one of the reasons behind the bauble farm is that the meta has so much problems that players try to find other ways to find any kind of value out of that map.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Rinagal.9235]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Not really. Why? Because if those 10-20 people were gone, they would not have been replaced by players willing to do meta anyway. VB simply does not get the population levels required to get to higher completion tiers anymore - and that's not a recent thing, but something that started happening long before PoF entered the picture.

 

I first got to VB around s3e6 release and i remember doing it's meta a lot, most of them reached t4 at least. I think it really died only with PoF release.

 

It's true that currently bauble farm isn't a problem for people who does VB meta, but it could be a problem would VB meta be popular enough to gather one fully populated map to complete meta.

 

9 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

force everyone on the map to do the meta

I haven't seen such suggestions in this topic.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

[This message is unwelcomed and was removed.]

Edited September 30, 2021 by Dean Calaway.9718

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

The thing is, the game itself already nerfs the exp you get from downing the same enemy over and over again, this was done to encourage players to explore and move around as that would be faster to level up, as downing an enemy that has been active for X amount of time can sometimes give 3~4 times the amount of normal exp. If the system can track how long an enemy has been active in a map and change the exp they give accordingly, why not do the same for their loot tables? Make it so fresh spawn enemies give neither exp or loot until they are active for 2 min on the map, with the exp and loot table getting better the longer they are active and done, no more afk farming.

That would require some changes to rewards for mobs spawned as a result of events. Especially events that are on a timer. People already rightly complain about those types of spawns that give no rewards whatsoever - extending that mechanic over every other event mob would be a very, very bad idea.