Support Guard is Overpowered, Boring to play As/Against

[DanSH.6143]

I don't know what else to say that hasn't been said, Anet has tried addressing the issue, unsuccessfully. It's honestly tiring every game to chase the support guard, it's boring. It's also boring to play a support guard. Please just nerf its survivability, without hurting all guardian builds in the process.

Nobody likes this meta, there are other problematic specs, like necros with overtuned shrouds, power rev with overtuned damage. But this spec alone keeps the match stale, creates long, tiring and boring fights. It's just bad gameplay.

 

Also, I don't understand why the removal of support amulets was ever the answer for this, why not just reduce the vitality these amulets have?  If support guard had 12-14k hp it wouldn't be as durable as it is now.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

24 minutes ago, DanSH.6143 said:

I don't know what else to say that hasn't been said, Anet has tried addressing the issue, unsuccessfully. It's honestly tiring every game to chase the support guard, it's boring. It's also boring to play a support guard. Please just nerf its survivability, without hurting all guardian builds in the process.

Nobody likes this meta, there are other problematic specs, like necros with overtuned shrouds, power rev with overtuned damage. But this spec alone keeps the match stale, creates long, tiring and boring fights. It's just bad gameplay.

Didnt actually think Support guard was a problem

24 minutes ago, DanSH.6143 said:

 

Also, I don't understand why the removal of support amulets was ever the answer for this, why not just reduce the vitality these amulets have?  If support guard had 12-14k hp it wouldn't be as durable as it is now.

Because other classes will get nerfed as well

[Kanto.2485]

I don't think the game should be balanced around gold 2 tbh.

It's barely viable as it is. if focused it's one of the easiest classes to kill in nowadays's meta. Nerfing its survivability even further will just kill the build completely. I mained it since i started playing in 2015 (didn't have PoF while FB was strong either) and i just stopped playing it after the nerf to SYG+the aegis heal trait, let alone after the removal of mender. Now i'm playing power core just cause i refuse to play trapper dh. but it's not a competitve build by any means, and guard in pvp really doesn't deserve further nerfing (aside from trapper removal).

Edited September 26, 2021 by Kanto.2485

[Exile.8160]

31 minutes ago, DanSH.6143 said:

I don't know what else to say that hasn't been said, Anet has tried addressing the issue, unsuccessfully. It's honestly tiring every game to chase the support guard, it's boring. It's also boring to play a support guard. Please just nerf its survivability, without hurting all guardian builds in the process.

Nobody likes this meta, there are other problematic specs, like necros with overtuned shrouds, power rev with overtuned damage. But this spec alone keeps the match stale, creates long, tiring and boring fights. It's just bad gameplay.

 

Also, I don't understand why the removal of support amulets was ever the answer for this, why not just reduce the vitality these amulets have?  If support guard had 12-14k hp it wouldn't be as durable as it is now.

 

Uhm yeah supp guard is not a problem (the rez rune tho coulde be) it deals no dmg unlike what scourge was/is.

 

Supp guard punishes teams that dont follow targets hence why it seems impossible to kill. 

 

Also no everyone thinks the same way as you some people like behin tank or support. As a last note the game need variatity of build not just dps specs one shotting everything (which is why the feb came in the forst place)  so no thank you.

[DanSH.6143]

23 minutes ago, Kanto.2485 said:

I don't think the game should be balanced around gold 2 tbh.

It's barely viable as it is. if focused it's one of the easiest classes to kill in nowadays's meta. Nerfing its survivability even further will just kill the build completely. I mained it since i started playing in 2015 (didn't have PoF while FB was strong either) and i just stopped playing it after the nerf to SYG+the aegis heal trait, let alone after the removal of mender. Now i'm playing power core just cause i refuse to play trapper dh. but it's not a competitve build by any means, and guard in pvp really doesn't deserve further nerfing (aside from trapper removal).

I play in plat1/plat2, that's where my experience is from.

Support guard is not focused because it's an easy target, it's not. It's focused because it has too much rez potential. It is actually harder to kill than most other specs, it's very durable. I'm asking for this nerfs as a guard main because of how boring it makes my matches.

Other guardian builds should be buffed, why does guardian have no middle ground? it's either complete glass cannon or super tanky support with 0 dmg.

 

 

 

[Buran.3796]

   Support Guard has no damage and is fairly frail. Also, you deserve this stagnated bunker meta because you (players) moaned about burst damage so ANet shaved 1/3 of the damage, turned cc skills in 0 damage ones and made dps builds useless vs bruisers/tanks. Please enjoy what you have voted.

  (Also remember that FB was entirely removed from PvP thanks to the nerfs in heals, support, symbols and dps, the same as condi DH with Sword of Justice). So enjoy chasing core Guardians and being comboed by Turbo Trappers in this bliss of meta devoid of Firebrands, as you requested.

[Leonidrex.5649]

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Support Guard has no damage and is fairly frail. Also, you deserve this stagnated bunker meta because you (players) moaned about burst damage so ANet shaved 1/3 of the damage, turned cc skills in 0 damage ones and made dps builds useless vs bruisers/tanks. Please enjoy what you have voted.

  (Also remember that FB was entirely removed from PvP thanks to the nerfs in heals, support, symbols and dps, the same as condi DH with Sword of Justice). So enjoy chasing core Guardians and being comboed by Turbo Trappers in this bliss of meta devoid of Firebrands, as you requested.

I would take core support guard any day over old firebrand
kitten firebrand.
I somewhat agree with OP, the reason why support guard is boring is that you dont even have to try to make your skills work.
You press a button and ally gets healed and there is nothing anyone can do about it, and after little bit its just boring.
Class plays itself.
I feel like any sort of support skills in general should take more effort, in gw2 they are super straightforward and require absolutely 0 effort or knowledge.
Entire core support guard skill expression comes from
1 Knowing when to cleanse an ally ( but when you randomly spam it its strong anyways )
2 blocking skills with aegis ( but if you randomly spam it its strong anyways )
3 knowing where to be, just follow enemy dps around and you will be at a right place 90% of the time
When everything you do always brings huge rewards, it slowly becomes shallow and boring.

[Kuma.1503]

Core guard isn't OP, it's just the bad of bad options. 

Anet did everything in their power to kill supports in this game. Guard is still holding onto viability. 

[Exile.8160]

30 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I would take core support guard any day over old firebrand
kitten firebrand.
I somewhat agree with OP, the reason why support guard is boring is that you dont even have to try to make your skills work.
You press a button and ally gets healed and there is nothing anyone can do about it, and after little bit its just boring.
Class plays itself.
I feel like any sort of support skills in general should take more effort, in gw2 they are super straightforward and require absolutely 0 effort or knowledge.
Entire core support guard skill expression comes from
1 Knowing when to cleanse an ally ( but when you randomly spam it its strong anyways )
2 blocking skills with aegis ( but if you randomly spam it its strong anyways )
3 knowing where to be, just follow enemy dps around and you will be at a right place 90% of the time
When everything you do always brings huge rewards, it slowly becomes shallow and boring.

 

Wow how everything you said is basically wrong yet you call for nerfs lol

 

A support guard that spams its skills die fast or lets others die fast. The skills they use to keep others alive are the same ones that keep him alive so if you spam them you wont save anyone including himself. 

 

Proper rotations of skills is needed for the build to work because once you use your elita as a last resort thats it you are dead. 

If anything the rez signet needs a nerf but thats about it. (All rez skills and traits tbh )

 

The game need variarity in builds 5 dps comps are also boring and also the reason the feb patch was a thing.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Exile.8160

[Leonidrex.5649]

4 hours ago, Exile.8160 said:

 

Wow how everything you said is basically wrong yet you call for nerfs lol

 

A support guard that spams its skills die fast or lets others die fast. The skills they use to keep others alive are the same ones that keep him alive so if you spam them you wont save anyone including himself. 

 

Proper rotations of skills is needed for the build to work because once you use your elita as a last resort thats it you are dead. 

If anything the rez signet needs a nerf but thats about it. (All rez skills and traits tbh )

 

The game need variarity in builds 5 dps comps are also boring and also the reason the feb patch was a thing.

I played this brainless spec and there is nothing that requires real strategy.
All the healing is super easy to land, all of it is aoe so even when you spam it you heal yourself, and enemy team can never focus 2 people at once, if you get focused, kite and heal. Your ally ? heal them and peel. If you are winning? Give stab/aegis and supplement CC so that enemy team cant peel, its not a rocket science.
You make it sound like there is a choice if you heal ally or yourself, there isnt. You do both, and if you are at full HP you dont need the healing anyways.

[Ragnar.4257]

11 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

I don't know what else to say that hasn't been said, Anet has tried addressing the issue, unsuccessfully. It's honestly tiring every game to chase the support guard, it's boring. It's also boring to play a support guard. Please just nerf its survivability, without hurting all guardian builds in the process.

Nobody likes this meta, there are other problematic specs, like necros with overtuned shrouds, power rev with overtuned damage. But this spec alone keeps the match stale, creates long, tiring and boring fights. It's just bad gameplay.

 

Also, I don't understand why the removal of support amulets was ever the answer for this, why not just reduce the vitality these amulets have?  If support guard had 12-14k hp it wouldn't be as durable as it is now.

First of all, support amulets were removed primarily to try and tame Scourge, and Scourge doesn't really get hurt by a loss of vitality, it has more than enough already as baseline.

 

Second, is it really core-guard you object to, or is it the concept of Supports in general? Because the purpose of a support is to slow fights down and survive, at the expense of offensive pressure. Healbreaker and Tempest do basically the same thing, just with more cleanse/CC and less stability/aegis, so is replacing one with the other actually going to solve your issue, or will you just move onto complaining about the next FoTM?

[SevlisBavles.3059]

5 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I would take core support guard any day over old firebrand
kitten firebrand.
I somewhat agree with OP, the reason why support guard is boring is that you dont even have to try to make your skills work.
You press a button and ally gets healed and there is nothing anyone can do about it, and after little bit its just boring.
Class plays itself.
I feel like any sort of support skills in general should take more effort, in gw2 they are super straightforward and require absolutely 0 effort or knowledge.
Entire core support guard skill expression comes from
1 Knowing when to cleanse an ally ( but when you randomly spam it its strong anyways )
2 blocking skills with aegis ( but if you randomly spam it its strong anyways )
3 knowing where to be, just follow enemy dps around and you will be at a right place 90% of the time
When everything you do always brings huge rewards, it slowly becomes shallow and boring.

Healing allies should take a similar amount of skill and timing as interrupting someone's heal or stowing a skill.

[Touchme.1097]

12 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

I don't know what else to say that hasn't been said, Anet has tried addressing the issue, unsuccessfully. It's honestly tiring every game to chase the support guard, it's boring. It's also boring to play a support guard. Please just nerf its survivability, without hurting all guardian builds in the process.

Nobody likes this meta, there are other problematic specs, like necros with overtuned shrouds, power rev with overtuned damage. But this spec alone keeps the match stale, creates long, tiring and boring fights. It's just bad gameplay.

 

Also, I don't understand why the removal of support amulets was ever the answer for this, why not just reduce the vitality these amulets have?  If support guard had 12-14k hp it wouldn't be as durable as it is now.

Why don't you just improve your strategy and learn how to play against it? I have never heard Support Guard being OP before. Do you see many Guard being played in top ranked PvP games? You should provide a lot more information, because right now I don't believe it's OP at all. Not many builds are viable on Guard either.

[Pimsley.3681]

Do you guys think it's in the best interest of Anet to drag on matches so people stay in PvP longer, thus nerfing damage? But the removal of support amulets contradict that thesis. 

 

Right now it's hard to gauge Anet's goal for pvp coz the pattern and direction is going all over the place. They don't like damage, that's evident.  If they are aiming for prolonged matches, then why remove support amulets instead of "adjusting" a certain elite's trait line, synergy with the 2 core traits and coefficients. 

 

Maybe this build was intended for entry level PvPers?

 

 

[Genesis.5169]

There is nothing wrong with support guard do you guys do anything else outside of calling to nerf something you just lost against? Support guard is more killable then any other support by like a mile, it heals less too and it doesn't really give many defensive boons like the others.

[Exile.8160]

1 hour ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I played this brainless spec and there is nothing that requires real strategy.
All the healing is super easy to land, all of it is aoe so even when you spam it you heal yourself, and enemy team can never focus 2 people at once, if you get focused, kite and heal. Your ally ? heal them and peel. If you are winning? Give stab/aegis and supplement CC so that enemy team cant peel, its not a rocket science.
You make it sound like there is a choice if you heal ally or yourself, there isnt. You do both, and if you are at full HP you dont need the healing anyways.

 

Just because you can equip a build and press buttons on it doesnt mean you understand it and from the looks of how you express yourself  on how supp guard plays its clear you dont.

 

Anyone can spam button on a build and have mild success speacially when facing an uncoornated team. (Which happens quite often sadly)

 

But when facing a team that actually follow targets and have proper rotations you cant spam guards skills. 

 

Anyways like all other here have said guard is no OP it deals no dmg and almost no cc as a trade off of being a suppor spec. The only thing is the rez signet and trait but thats a problem other have too.

[Spellhunter.9675]

In my experience a lot of matches decided by the fact which team has support guard. I don't think it's good. But I like to play with supports. So I think, we need to buff some other support spec (like support tempest or druid).  I still don't understand why support warrior was nerfed while support guard remains untouched despite the fact guard is much stronger with lower effort.

 

Also, I can clearly see the difference between good and bad support guards. But even bad players make a lot of impact with it. This is almost like the situations with necros, but you can't stack supp guards.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Spellhunter.9675

[Gamble.4580]

Support grd is not overpowerd lol. It's just impactful. It alows other classes to play their game when focused. This game mode is more than one shot builds and node bunkers. It promotes team work and it  have to give up nodes to peel as range is a issues. 90% of its skills are wasted because players don't know what range is and how to use a supports skills. It's a solid class in a solid state unlike before. Its needed, it has value and it is not easy to play if u waste just one skill and wrong time when supporting its all for nothing. The sig is not a issue when it's necro meta as stab does not keep red sig 100. Currupt to fear is the way.

It's called playing a game using your brain and playing a game mode that's 5v5 in a 5v5 mind set. 

It ain't over powered u just need to adapt to the comp. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Gamble.4580

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 9/26/2021 at 8:36 PM, Buran.3796 said:

   Support Guard has no damage and is fairly frail. Also, you deserve this stagnated bunker meta because you (players) moaned about burst damage so ANet shaved 1/3 of the damage, turned cc skills in 0 damage ones and made dps builds useless vs bruisers/tanks. Please enjoy what you have voted.

  (Also remember that FB was entirely removed from PvP thanks to the nerfs in heals, support, symbols and dps, the same as condi DH with Sword of Justice). So enjoy chasing core Guardians and being comboed by Turbo Trappers in this bliss of meta-

*Nods in agreement*

Quote

- devoid of Firebrands, as you requested.

*stops nodding*

Hold on now. Firebrand was an omegabunker let's not pretend they were DPS just because they could -also- output a boatload of burning, lmao. 

You're right about people not being able to tolerate damage leading into bunker meta (again, despite how boring it was when Anet was trying to e-sports, the people who wanted that should have known better).

Firebrand wasn't dps oriented though. That was just the cherry on top of the support icecream. That needed a look at. Of course theres no firebrands now, which is also bad. They looked at it too hard. 

[Buran.3796]

51 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Firebrand wasn't dps oriented though. That was just the cherry on top of the support icecream. That needed a look at. Of course theres no firebrands now, which is also bad. They looked at it too hard. 

   I agree. Firebrand was too strong, and deserved some cuts. But is weird how is top notch at PvE and very strong still in WvW (with celestial stats) whereas in PvP due the extent of the nerfs and the lack of proper amulets is not only out of the meta but also subpar. By the way, I main Rev, so is not like I'm invested with FB (which at the PoF release didn't even like, lol!), but I hate when a spec is nerfed to the extent of being kicked out of a game mode. Is bad for the game variety and also for the people which don't multiclass, and that hurts the game.

[Kuya.6495]

Why in the world would you nerf support guard when the only reason it's used is because every other healer was nerfed into oblivion? You can't carry your team with support guard if your team is bad. 

 

I will however say that fighting a support guard and a scourge at the same time is irritating.  But I'm not sure the problem is support guard there. Barriers cover the guard's weakness of having low hp pool while guard gives the scourge stunbreaks and stab.

 

If anything what you want is a nerf to scourge rez (which is really core necro rez) and barrier applications. What we need is more healer alternatives that aren't guard.  

 

Please bring back support tempest, druid and ventari (not the bunker though)!  One thing anet should do for pvp supports is to more clearly make a distinction between support healers that provide defense against burst damage vs support healers who cleanse condis. A healer in pvp should not be good at both at the same time to leave space for counterplay.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Kuya.6495

[Crab Fear.1624]

Support guard is fine.

I've isolated them on a full glass thief (not dd) and killed them relatively simply.

They can support, but not really bunker or do any meaningful damage.

Literally a prime example of a balanced class.

[Stalima.5490]

The issue with support guardian is that it just encourages people to build more and more and more damage/burst, that is why healers were never going to be a good thing in gw2 pvp and why they are never a good thing in all honesty, because there becomes a point where there is quite literally a damage cap on the enemy team being to win and if they do not absoloutely destroy that cap then there is not even the slightest chance of them winning.

 

A lot of people try to lower their damage output in order to be able to actually survive the insane levels of damage going out these days but this just ends up with their team not actually being to win purely because any damage done will be effortlessly healed back.

 

They really need to just delete the ratio's on all the support heals and that will just allow them to lower the damage output in the game, I mean when you think in a much slower game with an average 32-35k health, even 5k was considered big damage and 10k was considered insane and op...

 

basically anything dealing more than 1/7th of the average health pool should be looked into, i get the warrior bursts are supposed to be really strong but i mean I crit a mesmer for 14500 with gunflame the other day, there are limits to what is reasonable.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Stalima.5490

[Khalisto.5780]

supps in general are boring to play with/against

 

they slowdown the  game too much

 

but i think the issue is more necro than anything else, the class that profits the most having a  support on their side, their overall tankness allows to supp to rotate in and salvage the fight. Another problematic thing with necros is their ress capabilities making the supp very valuable on ranked mainly.

 

Now if you pair the supp with a class that can't sit on node and do tons of aoe dmg you gonna see supp is not the problem, you'll pretty much kill everybody, till there is only the supp alive.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Khalisto.5780

[Crab Fear.1624]

30 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

The issue with support guardian is that it just encourages people to build more and more and more damage/burst, that is why healers were never going to be a good thing in gw2 pvp and why they are never a good thing in all honesty, because there becomes a point where there is quite literally a damage cap on the enemy team being to win and if they do not absoloutely destroy that cap then there is not even the slightest chance of them winning.

 

A lot of people try to lower their damage output in order to be able to actually survive the insane levels of damage going out these days but this just ends up with their team not actually being to win purely because any damage done will be effortlessly healed back.

 

They really need to just delete the ratio's on all the support heals and that will just allow them to lower the damage output in the game, I mean when you think in a much slower game with an average 32-35k health, even 5k was considered big damage and 10k was considered insane and op...

 

basically anything dealing more than 1/7th of the average health pool should be looked into, i get the warrior bursts are supposed to be really strong but i mean I crit a mesmer for 14500 with gunflame the other day, there are limits to what is reasonable.

Damage is low enough.

Any wombo combos are so obvious and require so much  survival sacrifice.

If you are unable to bunker, my mission on here is almost complete.

 

Now for those necros