Too Many No Down State Events Is Bad For WvW

[Gibson.4036]

What if there were collision detection between friendlies, but not enemies?

No stacking, you could lay down aoe on a choke point for area denial, but five bunkers couldn't form a wall against the opposite side.

Would structure design even work? I'm imagining everyone getting stuck up on top of walls with only enough room to move two by two. There'd be quite a limit in some on how many people could even attack the NPC to flip the structure.

[Caedmon.6798]

No downed state event is a good thing in general but i notice people are suddenly scared to have a fight,they all play passive,no one takes initiative to get into a fight,everyone is hanging in the back relying on others to do the damage. Its been a borefest so far,while it can be fun. But everyone is in passive mode atm which makes for a boring time. Hardly see any tags atm,and our home bl has been dead aswell. Its a player mentality though,and it currently shows pretty good how much most people like to be carried by downed state.

[ArchonWing.9480]

6 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

What if there were collision detection between friendlies, but not enemies?

No stacking, you could lay down aoe on a choke point for area denial, but five bunkers couldn't form a wall against the opposite side.

Would structure design even work? I'm imagining everyone getting stuck up on top of walls with only enough room to move two by two. There'd be quite a limit in some on how many people could even attack the NPC to flip the structure.

Hmm, well fractals have something like that called "slippery slope".

I think it'd be hilarious to push your allies off cliffs as a special event, but not everyone would agree.

Edited November 8, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Gibson.4036]

18 minutes ago, Caedmon.6798 said:

No downed state event is a good thing in general but i notice people are suddenly scared to have a fight,they all play passive,no one takes initiative to get into a fight,everyone is hanging in the back relying on others to do the damage. Its been a borefest so far,while it can be fun. But everyone is in passive mode atm which makes for a boring time. Hardly see any tags atm,and our home bl has been dead aswell. Its a player mentality though,and it currently shows pretty good how much most people like to be carried by downed state.

To be fair, enough people respawning creates a snowball for the winning team, right?

I'm thinking about all the "how to sPvP" I've been reading lately as I explore that mode, and they all reiterate that it's better to run away than die, because switching to a new objective is less time out than respawning. Now I know WvW doesn't have the respawn timer that slows things down, but there are longer distances to run back to objectives.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

 

Just because I know how to manage DS does not make DS any less of an advantage to the side with greater numbers. You are making an assumption that people who don't like DS some how have no idea what to do after getting someone down in an outnumbered fight they are winning.

This. I have a battle standard for the 🤡💩  players that I down and choose to keep fighting back, but NDS just speeds things up. I like things sped up. Makes the game more invigorating and fun.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

complaining about no downstate is kinda pog, as the event happens what, every half year or even year one time?

[Zikory.6871]

6 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

complaining about no downstate is kinda pog, as the event happens what, every half year or even year one time?

Last one was in June 2021. August 2020, May 2019, June 2018. So 1 a year but 2 in 2021. 

[MedievalThings.5417]

Downstate - boonball zerg breaks into keep inner, stands there farming bags until the defender gives up.  The fight was 30-50 guild vs 10-20 pugs.  They take keep when defender realizes boon sharing is broken.

 

No downstate - boonball zerg breaks into keep inner, and gets picked off 1 by 1 because the defender has a short runback.  The boonball gets a reasonable amount of kills, but it isn't a bag farm cause even pugs can cloud them down.  Skill actually matters in this fight.

 

Forums - people complaining they need downstate to press 1 and win every fight vs outnumbered servers.

[Zikory.6871]

27 minutes ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Downstate - boonball zerg breaks into keep inner, stands there farming bags until the defender gives up. 30 vs whatever the server sends. 

 

No downstate -boonball zerg breaks into keep inner, stands there farming bags faster until the defender gives up.  30 vs whatever the server sends. 

Adjusted to fit my experience at least. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Zikory.6871

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

23 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Adjusted to fit my experience at least. 

 

Well yeah it's faster, no more squads camping 2-3 down bodies waiting to cleave them out because downed HP is 2X higher than normal HP. And you're complaining about this lol....and somehow arguing that downstate would have helped the outnumbered defenders 🤡

[Zikory.6871]

7 minutes ago, BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

 

Well yeah it's faster, no more squads camping 2-3 down bodies waiting to cleave them out because downed HP is 2X higher than normal HP. And you're complaining about this lol....and somehow arguing that downstate would have helped the outnumbered defenders 🤡

You're trying to hard. I'm neither complaining or arguing for either. I just don't share that experience. Trash defenders are going to get farmed with or without downstate. I think the post I responded to is disingenuous.

Imagine reading my comments and still thinking I care whether garbage has down state or not. 🤡

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

You're trying to hard. I'm neither complaining or arguing for either. I just don't share that experience. Trash defenders are going to get farmed with or without downstate. I think the post I responded to is disingenuous.

Imagine reading my comments and still thinking I care whether garbage has down state or not. 🤡

The poster isn't being disingenuous. They just know what they're doing and didn't get farmed. 🙃

[Zikory.6871]

3 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

The poster isn't being disingenuous. They just know what they're doing and didn't get farmed. 🙃

Kinda what makes it disingenuous no? Assuming their experience is shared by everyone? I dont TC thought downstate was helping them push us out 🤔

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Kinda what makes it disingenuous no? Assuming their experience is shared by everyone? I dont TC thought downstate was helping them push us out 🤔

Did they really say that everyone has that experience though?

I mean you're free to disagree with it, but that doesn't mean they're being dishonest. Maybe the last part is a little disingenuous, but no more than many other comments I would say.

[Zikory.6871]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Did they really say that everyone has that experience though?

I mean you're free to disagree with it, but that doesn't mean they're being dishonest. Maybe the last part is a little disingenuous, but no more than many other comments I would say.

I mean, seems like a pretty clear statement. Downstate = X and No Downstate = Y. Then offers anecdotal examples in which I don't share. I chose disingenuous instead of wrong as I understand our experiences will vary. 

T1 NA isn't anything to write home about but spending half our rally in a enemy Garrison and ending the night with 500+ bags is not normal with downstate. So since the comment is specifically on boon balls farming keeps, it was significantly easier and more bag profitable without downstate then past weeks with downstate. 

[Sugar Min.5834]

OMG so many yada yada opposing posts 🙈 and just because you disagree with my points they become useless and one even say it's dumbest LOL

I didn't know so many in the forum have reading comprehension problem. The topic says Too Many is no good and not no down state is no good. They are not the same. Comprendre? Probably not.

One more day and it will be over! Yay! 🌈

Edited November 10, 2021 by Mil.3562

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

I mean, seems like a pretty clear statement. Downstate = X and No Downstate = Y. Then offers anecdotal examples in which I don't share. I chose disingenuous instead of wrong as I understand our experiences will vary. 

T1 NA isn't anything to write home about but spending half our rally in a enemy Garrison and ending the night with 500+ bags is not normal with downstate. So since the comment is specifically on boon balls farming keeps, it was significantly easier and more bag profitable without downstate then past weeks with downstate. 

I mean, I don't think that's how that word is used but don't want to argue over definitions. Different experiences I guess.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

12 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Downstate - boonball zerg breaks into keep inner, stands there farming bags until the defender gives up.  The fight was 30-50 guild vs 10-20 pugs.  They take keep when defender realizes boon sharing is broken.

 

No downstate - boonball zerg breaks into keep inner, and gets picked off 1 by 1 because the defender has a short runback.  The boonball gets a reasonable amount of kills, but it isn't a bag farm cause even pugs can cloud them down.  Skill actually matters in this fight.

 

Forums - people complaining they need downstate to press 1 and win every fight vs outnumbered servers.

 

so u really, seriously, think 30 to 50 (that's a huge difference of numbers there, idk if u are aware how many opponents u had there)

people should be takeable easily by 20 uncoordinated pugs?

 

and u blame that to boonshare? good joke

 

irl the cloudy defenders on higher tiers are just blobsize. u have 50 people sitting on 12 arrowcarts, mortars, trebs, cannons whatever. the blob situation are mostly timezone issues. EU is flooded with people from all over the world playing at crazy times. zoneblobs at 2am... ofc its kitten to fight that with 20 people barely, as not everyone is a pro. 50+ blobs are hard to take on, unless u have a really strong group of 20.

[GoldenPants.1870]

On 11/6/2021 at 7:37 AM, Mil.3562 said:

rally back to fight if you made a mistake or the enemy got lucky on you. So it's all about who hit first and who got luckier.

This is good, means roamers can pick off zerglings and they actually stay dead.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 7:37 AM, Mil.3562 said:

No down state for those support players means no cleaving or kill tagging on downed enemies for loots and Wxp therefore way less rewarding to play during these periods.

Then send your supports some bags.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 7:37 AM, Mil.3562 said:

All Reviving Skills and Traits become totally obsolete during these events

Yeah, they would need to be reworked.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 7:37 AM, Mil.3562 said:

Many players spent real money, NOT those gold-to-gem convert players, to buy Finishers and only to find out that ANet is depriving us from using our Finishers more and more often with these more and more regular no down state events. I want a full refund.

Okay… ? 

 

 

[MedievalThings.5417]

5 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

 

so u really, seriously, think 30 to 50 (that's a huge difference of numbers there, idk if u are aware how many opponents u had there)

people should be takeable easily by 20 uncoordinated pugs?

 

and u blame that to boonshare? good joke

 

irl the cloudy defenders on higher tiers are just blobsize. u have 50 people sitting on 12 arrowcarts, mortars, trebs, cannons whatever. the blob situation are mostly timezone issues. EU is flooded with people from all over the world playing at crazy times. zoneblobs at 2am... ofc its kitten to fight that with 20 people barely, as not everyone is a pro. 50+ blobs are hard to take on, unless u have a really strong group of 20.

I think skill should win fights...period.  1v1.  1v3.  5v10.  20v30-50.

 

My experience with losing keeps is almost the same every time.  The attacker has at least 30 and usually around 40 (so, 30-50) for average.  I record most of my fights so I can see things I did well or poorly and then delete them when nothing really interesting happens.  The defender usually has 20 (10-30) average.  The times we don't lose the keep are usually because we manage to get people from other maps to help, so numbers evened out or it was a random pug group.  We almost always have the outnumbered buff.

 

The fights have two looks, even when it's just us pugs, which for TC, a lot of us pugs have played since launch and even though not in voice, know what each other can do.

Fight type 1 - Enemy pug group breaks in, we pick them off because they aren't in voice/comp'd and we have a shorter run back.

Fight type 2 - Enemy group is boonball/comp'd with mostly guild, we are outnumbered.  During the fight I will generate 20+ downs, all but 1-2 (on average) is ressed in .1 seconds.  So the boonball has players make mistakes, but the game rewards them just because they have more players (instantly ressed).

 

No downstate fights unless we are vastly outnumbered, 40ish vs 10, we rarely lose the keep.  Because we have a short run back, and because when the attacker makes a mistake, they are dead.  Not winning just because they have more players.

 

Skill should determine the victor.  I get that not everyone's experiences in wvw are like mine.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Ubi.4136

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

13 hours ago, Mil.3562 said:

OMG so many yada yada opposing posts 🙈 and just because you disagree with my points they become useless and one even say it's dumbest LOL

I didn't know so many in the forum have reading comprehension problem. The topic says Too Many is no good and not no down state is no good. They are not the same. Comprendre? Probably not.

One more day and it will be over! Yay! 🌈

 

2/52 weeks is 'too many'. I'd be fine with 1/4 weeks lol.

[Ashantara.8731]

They should come up with something more original than only the two events we have, No Downed State and Double-XP/Reward Track Bonus.

It's stale and boring.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

10 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

They should come up with something more original than only the two events we have, No Downed State and Double-XP/Reward Track Bonus.

It's stale and boring.

Every time Anet goes down the road of different WvW events, it comes very buggy. Golem rush week lol...

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Ubi.4136 said:

I think skill should win fights...period.  1v1.  1v3.  5v10.  20v30-50.

If you think skill period is the only thing that count then 1 vs ~80 should win if all of them are bad (technically 1 vs ~160 if you fight two zoneblobs at once).

Since you actually count up the numbers vs more enemies... you do think numbers matter. So its not a period.

Just saying.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[MedievalThings.5417]

6 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

If you think skill period is the only thing that count then 1 vs ~80 should win if all of them are bad (technically 1 vs ~160 if you fight two zoneblobs at once).

Since you actually count up the numbers vs more enemies... you do think numbers matter. So its not a period.

Just saying.

During no downstate, I have seen a single, incredibly well played thief, kill a group of 20 by themselves.  Skirted the group, 1-3 kept squirreling thinking they could "easily take a thief".  Because the group was roaming they never bothered to res the dead.  Eventually, by sheer luck, I imagine a larger group could have gotten them, but it was amazing to watch.

 

My statement is still valid though.  Skill should win fights.  Large groups should not be carried just because they can instantly res each other over and over when they make poor choices.