Too Many No Down State Events Is Bad For WvW

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

some people are enjoying it

[Parthenos Polias.5683]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

This. Just like how GW2 efficiency should never be used for accurate game statistics neither should forum polls, for exactly the same reasons.

 

Proof is in the queues.

 

Queues aren't a proof.
There are queues only because PvE boys come get their +XP buff.
Make the same event, without the bonuses and the queues may be a proof.

 

8 hours ago, Mil.3562 said:

1. People are more afraid of pushing or fighting because you can't rally back to fight if you made a mistake or the enemy got lucky on you. So it's all about who hit first and who got luckier.

2. No down state for those support players means no cleaving or kill tagging on downed enemies for loots and Wxp therefore way less rewarding to play during these periods.

3. All Reviving Skills and Traits become totally obsolete during these events.

4. Many players spent real money, NOT those gold-to-gem convert players, to buy Finishers and only to find out that ANet is depriving us from using our Finishers more and more often with these more and more regular no down state events. I want a full refund.

Conclusion: My friends and I never play WvW on no down state weeks. ANet took out all the fun and wasted our money for supporting them by making our Finishers redundant.

A very unhappy and disappointed player and soon to be ex-player.

 

1. Somehow I understand what you mean. It's a big change about how to start and how to win a fight.

Usually, you need to take care of enemies coming back from down state. It's not because you won the first fight, than you will win the battle.
On the other side, it's not because you lose the first engagement, than you will lose the battle, usually.

That means, usually, you will prefer a stronger dps on a small group of enemies, just to be sure downed people will be dead.

 

During those no Down State Event, you can prefer a weaker dps, but on more enemies, because you don't need the extra dps to kill downed people.

 

That's truly game changing, that's why it's an event. It's a real new rule of engagement.

 

2. Not a real problem, more people are going to die.

 

3. As I said in 1. It's a event, it's a new rule of engagement, it's temporary, you need to adapt to it.

 

4. How many ? I would be very surprise if more than 1% of the WvW players spend real money on those finishers.

 

49 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

If somebody can't a handle a burst mounted in his (overpowered) warclaw and fall dead it's because he isnt using the adequate stat combination for wvw.

Good players love no-downstate events and bad ones complain and cry because can't be carried by mummy.

There are a lot of options like passive traits, runes, or utitity skills to resist a burst, while you call these must have boons a bad thing I see it as an adaptation to this event. It's good to step out the comfort zone.

 

 

There is nothing here about good or bad players.

 

It's just so different to play with or without down state.
A good player, should take in consideration that down state is a thing. That his enemy will go down state and he will need to kill him for sure ; that he can go down state and he can still come back before death (from rallying, from reviving or from vengeance)

A good player should also temporary adapt to no-down state event.
 

6 minutes ago, Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

some people are enjoying it

 

This is exactly why a permanent no down state is illogical for WvW.
1 player should not kill 10 players and flee.

There is too many mechanisms in GW2 (burst aoe, evade, stealth) that will create illogical and frustrating situations.

[Wolfhound.4381]

I finish wood and then I quit playing WvW for the week during no downstate. I hate this event.

[nativity.3057]

Just an event that adds variety to WvW, which can be stale. Next reset is back to normal. Can't believe 1 week can cause so many threads to be made. How many No-Downed-State events are there a year? Really overblown reactions imo.

 

Don't forget the WvW bonuses can attract more players, since it makes getting GoB faster. Probably more PvE players playing during the event for the rewards. 

[Xenesis.6389]

It only last a week.

It normally only happens once a year, this year we got it twice because we're now a cornerstone!

It would be nice to rotate the other events (golem, core skills), if they would bother to fix them first.

Or introduce new events once a month that aren't as impactful on combat, any excuse to get more bonus wxp weeks. 

One or maybe two traits or skills are affected on a class, use something else.

Let the gankers have their week, play along with your own gank class, or don't, it's just a week.

I'm hoping we get to see some stealth grenade bomb videos.

Play smarter, like for instance if you're following a commander who's not that great, don't be on their stack, hang back a little, If you're in their guild, well, play smarter. 🙂

Edited November 6, 2021 by Xenesis.6389

[frareanselm.1925]

15 minutes ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

 

There is nothing here about good or bad players.

 

It's just so different to play with or without down state.
A good player, should take in consideration that down state is a thing. That his enemy will go down state and he will need to kill him for sure ; that he can go down state and he can still come back before death (from rallying, from reviving or from vengeance)

 

For the reasons you named here the NDSE is the most fair, because there's a shameful inbalance in downed states between classes, from the overpowered ranger pet resurrection, back from death of warrior... to useless downed modes like revenant or mesmer for example.

[Parthenos Polias.5683]

6 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

For the reasons you named here the NDSE is the most fair, because there's a shameful inbalance in downed states between classes, from the overpowered ranger pet resurrection, back from death of warrior... to useless downed modes like revenant or mesmer for example.

You shouldn't focus only one the Down State to say if there is or not an unbalance between classes.
It's as inaccurate as if I said armours are unbalanced between a warrior and a mesmer, it's overpowered on warrior and useless on mesmer.

There are unbalanced parts everywhere between classes.
Unbalanced tankyness.
Unbalanced CC.
Unbalanced CC clears.
Unbalanced armours.
Unbalanced burst.
Unbalanced IA.
Unbalanced heal.
Unbalanced sustains.
Unbalanced DS.

 

Balance is about the big picture, not one aspect picked out of the others.
 

[Vegeta.2563]

No downstate has got to be one of the worst reward weeks for support.  They already have a hard time tagging anything when it's alive.  At least when there is a downstate they have a chance to get a hit in before the enemy dies.  Back when the previous no downstate was around, we still had retaliation.  Now that it's gone.  This is just stupid imo.

[Vegeta.2563]

45 minutes ago, Wolfhound.4381 said:

I finish wood and then I quit playing WvW for the week during no downstate. I hate this event.

Going for kills during this week is honestly a waste of time.  According to gw2mists, for reset, no one even made it to 800, when usually it's closer to 1.8 to 2k kills.  This week I would recommend just flipping stuff and avoiding enemy and let them flip what they want.. just back cap each other for WXP.

[Cuks.8241]

For small scale it's quite fun.

But for group play it sucks because it's all about range spike and it actually favors the larger groups. It's normal that range spike creates a few downies but that can be recovered from usually and turned around. Now it's just over. The groups I'm playing with mostly dislike now down state.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

9 hours ago, Widmo.3186 said:

1. Youre kitten punished for making mistakes, thats how games work. So what, when you play poker and lose all your money, casino should give it back to you because you got unlucky or outskilled? Are you dumb XD?
2. ??? With no downed state more people ACTUALLY die instead of going to downed state and being babysitted by "support" players, so you get more wxp and more rewards. And if you dont know how to tag ppl on support build, then you dont know how to play it. Again, as above XD
3. And they should be, even without these events. Downed skills are way too unbalanced, and so were/are traits. Theres a reason why they nerfed them repeatedly during last patches, you know?
4. Lmao what? First of all, I dont know a single game that allows you to buy more "microtransaction shop" items with in-game currency than gw2. Second, who the fk buys finishers with real money. In terms of WvW ppl spend real money to transfer between servers, finishers you get for free in sPvP or for 10g from TP. Again, as above XD

Conclusion: I understand why some people hate and why some people love NDS weeks. But that single post is the dumbest one Ive seen so far XD
 

Your post is dumb.

OP mentioned his/her concern and you are being rude for nothing. You don't have to agree with OP but why so much toxic.

Having that said, I don't agree with op either except 1 point.  I do like no downstate event sometime. But, op has point, if he/she bought finishers, it completely invalidate his/her purchase. And, yes some people buy finishers with real money.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Yellow Rainbow.6142

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

Imagine complaining about not having 50k HP for your minstrel friends to salvage you after you let your HP hit 0.

 

Don't get hit then you won't die. Threatening about becoming an ex-player because we get like 2 no downstates in a year LOL cya then? You have 50 weeks a year to cheese the game and it still isn't enough.

Edited November 6, 2021 by BeepBoopBop.5403

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

For small scale it's quite fun.

But for group play it sucks because it's all about range spike and it actually favors the larger groups. It's normal that range spike creates a few downies but that can be recovered from usually and turned around. Now it's just over. The groups I'm playing with mostly dislike now down state.

 

How would having downstate favor the smaller group? They have less people to press F and target cap, this point of view literally makes no sense at all.

Source: Farmed a guild + pug group of 10 on Friday with 4 roamers.

Also your distinction between small scale and small group play makes no sense, no one is running around as a comped group of 10 or less because they get scouted/run over by blobs or are just having really boring fights steamrolling uncoordinated pugs.

Source: Tried raiding as a 10 man for months.

Edited November 6, 2021 by BeepBoopBop.5403

[ASP.8093]

6 hours ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

I think the opposite, we should have more No downed stated events. A weekend a month would be a good mesure.

As a roamer I'm tired to win 2v1 fights that are ruined by somebody resurrecting a downed enemy, it sucks.

I think the res adds an interesting dynamic to fights, even if it does generally disadvantage me (since I tend to run solo a lot). Part of roaming is making sure you have the tools to interact with downs (interrupts, poison, safe-stomp skills, cleaving potential) and I enjoy flexing those muscles. Downs also create an interesting cycle where a mobile fight suddenly becomes more *anchored* now that there's this fixed objective that both sides really care about for the next few seconds.

It's also absolute tedium in large-scale if you're matched up against anyone who already loves turtle-up-and-Phase-Smash-from-max-range as their only strat.

 

(To be clear: it's fine as a sometimes-treat. I don't bedgrudge people who like it getting to have fun a few weeks a year. If it were standard I think it'd eventually kill the game mode, though. I also wish they'd come up with 1-2 other gimmick week types instead of just trotting out no-downstate for their bonus-WXP events.)

Edited November 6, 2021 by ASP.8093

[Parthenos Polias.5683]

11 minutes ago, BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

How would having downstate favor the smaller group? They have less people to press F and target cap, this point of view literally makes no sense at all.

Source: Farmed a guild + pug group of 10 on Friday with 4 roamers.

 

That's exactly what Cuks called "For small scale it's quite fun."

When he talks about "group play" he means group as large as squad.
And yes, he is right, NDS tends to favor the biggest squad, because NDS favor the biggest AOE dps.

 

  

2 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

I think the res adds an interesting dynamic to fights, even if it does generally disadvantage me (since I tend to run solo a lot).

It's also absolute tedium in large-scale if you're matched up against anyone who already loves turtle-up-and-Phase-Smash-from-max-range as their only strat.

If you turn the NDSE to a monthly feature, then the reshuffle or ladder or match up (call it as you want) is gonna be a mess.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Parthenos Polias.5683

[Zikory.6871]

9 minutes ago, BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

 

How would having downstate favor the smaller group? They have less people to press F and target cap, this point of view literally makes no sense at all.

This, it only favors the better smaller group when target caps aren't concern. Hot take: No downstate favors the group that's better at abusing the lack of retaliation. 

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

17 minutes ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

 

That's exactly what Cuks called "For small scale it's quite fun."

When he talks about "group play" he means group as large as squad.
And yes, he is right, NDS tends to favor the biggest squad, because NDS favor the biggest AOE dps.

 

 

And downstate doesn't favor the biggest squad? Really? More 3k armor players sharing stability and hitting F, more ranged rez skills doesn't factor at all?

You know nothing is making you tank the 'biggest AOE dps' right? You can dodge and reposition out of it lmfao like good players do instead of letting your HP hit 0 because your waterboy can save you.

The point of no downstate is it lets smaller groups achieve victory through skill more often, NOT to ensure the smaller group wins every fight or even most fights...

Edited November 6, 2021 by BeepBoopBop.5403

[Parthenos Polias.5683]

5 minutes ago, BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

And downstate doesn't favor the biggest squad? Really? More 3k armor players sharing stability and hitting F, more ranged rez skills doesn't factor at all?

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Do you realise rally is the main way to come back from DS ?

If you really lose versus a group where people are wasting time doing revive, you have a real problem.
We are talking about zerg here.

And because in WvW, killing a player will only rally ONE other player, you can't rally your full biggest squad just by killing one people from the smallest squad.
That's why, rally and so DS doesn't favor the biggest squad.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

9 minutes ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

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Do you realise rally is the main way to come back from DS ?

If you really lose versus a group where people are wasting time doing revive, you have a real problem.
We are talking about zerg here.

And because in WvW, killing a player will only rally ONE other player, you can't rally your full biggest squad just by killing one people from the smallest squad.
That's why, rally and so DS doesn't favor the biggest squad.

 

You: 'Do you realise rally is the main way to come back from DS ?'

Also you: 'killing a player will only rally ONE other player, you can't rally your full biggest squad just by killing one people from the smallest squad.

Is rally the main way to come back from DS or is it an insignificant part of the game because you've amazingly said both at the same time. Also nothing to say about target caps and having more 3k armor meatshield rezbots and having more rez CDs lol.

Go fight 20 with 10 and tell me downstate doesn't favor the 20, pretty funny stuff you playing another game. And no, I don't care about this hypothetical situation about 40 man squads vs 50 man squads, this week is finally a time to enjoy other areas of the WvW instead of catering to full squads like usual.

Servers can't even support a decent 40v40 fight, balancing around lagwars is a clown move.

Edited November 6, 2021 by BeepBoopBop.5403

[frareanselm.1925]

2 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

You shouldn't focus only one the Down State to say if there is or not an unbalance between classes.
It's as inaccurate as if I said armours are unbalanced between a warrior and a mesmer, it's overpowered on warrior and useless on mesmer.

There are unbalanced parts everywhere between classes.
Unbalanced tankyness.
Unbalanced CC.
Unbalanced CC clears.
Unbalanced armours.
Unbalanced burst.
Unbalanced IA.
Unbalanced heal.
Unbalanced sustains.
Unbalanced DS.

 

Balance is about the big picture, not one aspect picked out of the others.
 

So in your opinion some classes deserve better downed dynamics and others don't. I dont buy your argument.

[Malus.2184]

8 hours ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

If somebody can't a handle a burst mounted in his (overpowered) warclaw and fall dead it's because he isnt using the adequate stat combination for wvw.

Good players love no-downstate events and bad ones complain and cry because can't be carried by mummy.

There are a lot of options like passive traits, runes, or utitity skills to resist a burst, while you call these must have boons a bad thing I see it as an adaptation to this event. It's good to step out the comfort zone.

 

Unless you've polled a representative of the player-base you base that on the people you know, and people have a tendency to be around people who have the same beliefs as them, so what's expressed here is is a clear bias.

How do you define "good players"? "Good" is a value-judgment based on the bias of the person making the judgment. To make a hyperbolic example, someone in a hate group praising another for committing a hate-crime are to them "good people" even though other people would judge them differently.

All the things you suggest are either expensive or unavailable to some, unless they go for a complete whack-a-doodle build. No other aspect of the game requires this. Inserting a new condition that's wildly different than the already existing ones make people feel inadequate as described in the theory of the zone of proximal development.

As for people leaving their comfort zone being beneficial that's the first objective statement in your post, again as described by the developmental aspects of the theory of the zone of proximal development, however, this comfort zone is also known as the "too easy zone." The zone of proximal development theory says about this state is, "when something is found so easy that the person can do it without thinking."

The zone above that, the developmental zone, is when people can still do and they have to think about it. This is the zone people learn in. Above that it just gets too frustrating for people and they find a conscious reason to quit.

If this was merely the downed-state going twice or thrice as fast then it would be in the developmental zone. Since it's completely gone it's in the " too hard zone" where most people just find it frustrating and  gives up as their abilities are no where close to being adequate to even attempt it.

People with many Legendaries would find it less frustrating as they can just switch to an Affix that has Toughness in it.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Malus.2184

[JTGuevara.9018]

Hogwash! No-downed-state is the only time in wvw where huge blobs can actually be countered and defeated! I've said it before, those that complain the most are part of those same blobs. To this day, no-downed-state is the ONLY counter against the boon-barrier scourge/FB/rev/scrapper juggernauts.

[Malus.2184]

Just now, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Hogwash! No-downed-state is the only time in wvw where huge blobs can actually be countered and defeated! I've said it before, those that complain the most are part of those same blobs. To this day, no-downed-state is the ONLY counter against the boon-barrier scourge/FB/rev/scrapper juggernauts.

Present an argument based on objective values that this is the average case. Present an explanation of how the conditions are when a smaller hroup defeats a larger group with NDS.

[Zikory.6871]

9 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Hogwash! No-downed-state is the only time in wvw where huge blobs can actually be countered and defeated! I've said it before, those that complain the most are part of those same blobs. To this day, no-downed-state is the ONLY counter against the boon-barrier scourge/FB/rev/scrapper juggernauts.

I'll let you in on a super high profile secret all the "boon-barrier scourge/FB/rev/scrapper juggernauts" don't want you to know. There are these hidden skills that strip and convert boons. When coordinated together, there is more boon hate then these groups can bring in support. 

Funnily, the whole point of a heavy support comp is for your players to not go down. Relaying on the rez skills creates bad habits. 

[Morwath.9817]

I like it, because no downstate = no aoe cleave corpse tagging = less bags/rewards for zerging = less toxic gameplay.