it's almost 2022

[Gibson.4036]

6 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Dungeons are  set in the game balance of 2014.  Dungeons are already easy due to powercreep.  Most, if not all dungeon story modes can be solo'd with minimal game knowledge (Break bars and do some damage).

I tried Twilight Arbor a little while ago and didn't find that true, but perhaps I didn't work at it long enough. I did read up a bit on it before hand, and made sure to use consumables. Started off with my daredevil, followed up with mirage, and only made it part way through.

Might try duoing it in the near future. I've found the difference between one and two players can be huge, as you can cover for each other a bit if someone makes a mistake.

[Tiilimon.6094]

Looking at the state of AI in the game, I'm quite sure NPC heroes wouldn't be abused at all for farming, it's more likely that they would gather dust because nobody would bother to use them.

 

If they would teleport to where the player character is to work around the common AI pathing issues, then I could see plenty of ways to use them for effective farming.

 

There are some ways to bug outside of the instance bounds and it's quite easy to get straight to the last boss in most of the dungeons if you know how, and if someone like me knows these tricks, farmers know em for sure 😄

Edited November 29, 2021 by Tiilimon.6094

[Stelawrat.6589]

14 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Dungeons are  set in the game balance of 2014.  Dungeons are already easy due to powercreep.  Most, if not all dungeon story modes can be solo'd with minimal game knowledge (Break bars and do some damage).

Well what can I tell you Sir, other than, I know that I'm a mediocre player. 😕

I've tried many times to do dungeons in story mode & have never been successful so far. I don't anticipate that changing any time soon, so... yes I'd really appreciate it, if the level of difficulty could be scaled back. If that isn't possible, then I'm glad that you can solo them, because it gives me something to shoot for. 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I tried Twilight Arbor a little while ago and didn't find that true, but perhaps I didn't work at it long enough. I did read up a bit on it before hand, and made sure to use consumables. Started off with my daredevil, followed up with mirage, and only made it part way through.

Might try duoing it in the near future. I've found the difference between one and two players can be huge, as you can cover for each other a bit if someone makes a mistake.

There's  really only one sketchy fight in TA story; the boss that can turn you into a cat, (or is it a dog?  I forget).

In general, solo play in dungeon story modes is completely possible, but duo makes it a breeze.  And, back on the topic of the OP, if you're waiting 3 hours for one additional person, I'unno what to say.

[Randulf.7614]

I think them being solo-able is very much a skill based thing. They aren’t naturally solo-able for what I would guess to be most of us

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

3 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I think them being solo-able is very much a skill based thing. They aren’t naturally solo-able for what I would guess to be most of us

In the current year (It is 2022) full exotic power builds with elite specializations can put out substantially more damage than core variants of the same class back in 2012-2015.

Utilizing an example here

Power Core Necromancer was kind of trash back in the day.  It barely pulled any decent numbers, but was tanky as heck with shroud and could kite reliably.

Now let's go with reaper.  You have two traits that buff shroud directly.  They each give +300 (20%) crit damage. While downscaled to 30, this goes up to 80%.  You also have ~85% crit chance while in shroud.  Most bosses get shredded by numbers that high, especially if you time shroud with a bar break.  There's almost nothing in vanilla dungeons that can survive that.

Take that build above and mix it with someone else playing boon support and you can effectively duo most dungeons.  You cannot truthfully tell me that it'd take you 3 hours to find a single other person to do dungeon story modes with.

[Astralporing.1957]

10 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Dungeons are  set in the game balance of 2014.  Dungeons are already easy due to powercreep.  Most, if not all dungeon story modes can be solo'd with minimal game knowledge (Break bars and do some damage).

That's true only at the upper reaches of skill tiers. The average GW2 player however is still around the same level they'd have been in 2014 - even getting full ascended offers only around 10% increase over exotics at best, and the difference in builds is visible only for those that can utilize them well, which are in a significant minority in this game.

3 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

In the current year (It is 2022) full exotic power builds with elite specializations can put out substantially more damage than core variants of the same class back in 2012-2015.

So what? Top tier players being maybe like 50% better than in the early days of gw2 (and i'm not even sure it's that high - we don't really have any decent numbers from the FGS trick times) doesn't change the fact that most people interested in story modes are still way below what was considered merely good (but not yet OP or top tier) in 2014.

Quote

Utilizing an example here

Power Core Necromancer was kind of trash back in the day.  It barely pulled any decent numbers, but was tanky as heck with shroud and could kite reliably.

Power Core necromancer was actually one of the highest single-target solo-play dps builds out there. That was not the problem - the issue was in how it didn't contribute to groups at all (and how it was quite slow at clearing trash due to lack of cleave, or how it lacked in the mobility department)

So, again, sure, top tier players can now easily solo story dungeon paths. But then, they could do the same in 2014. The problem lies in the players that are not in that relatively small group at the top, but that are part of the "average" tier (you know, the one used in that 10x dps difference comparison between them and the top). And those couldn't solo those paths then, and still can't do it nowadays.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Mungrul.9358]

Are there contemporary examples of Warriors soloing dungeons?

[Linken.6345]

34 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Are there contemporary examples of Warriors soloing dungeons?

 

[Mungrul.9358]

@Linken.6345, I said contemporary. That's from 2015.

[Ashantara.8731]

9 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I think them being solo-able is very much a skill based thing. They aren’t naturally solo-able for what I would guess to be most of us

Exactly. Not every player is playing all of the existing professions on meta-level.

I have characters of all nine professions, but only two of them I play in high-end meta content (Guardian and Necromancer). I don't have the time (and will) to train all of them to perfection (where I learn the damage meta rotation by heart etc).

Mind you, I was able play through all existing story content on all nine professions without any issues, that includes the more challenging story mission fights as well - ergo, I am not completely incapable in handling them.  Now, why should story mode dungeons have to be more challenging than that for solo-play? Makes no sense at all.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Linken.6345]

6 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

@Linken.6345, I said contemporary. That's from 2015.

here you go

Hope that is recent enough for you.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Mungrul.9358]

Ta, interesting to see.

[Krzysztof.5973]

Paths 1, 2, 3 or whatever are also "story". You still "need" a party to complete the dungeon for those paths. We can rename "story mode" into "introduction" and you are no longer obligated to do the story mode. It's just another path of that dungeon. I don't know why some people are fixated on dismantling the multiplayers parts of gw2. Instead of making dungeons single player, just create player incentive to replay them, increasing the population and interest of dungeons altogether. Although I don't know for how long can you make players participate in content that is decades old. 

[Rasimir.6239]

I have to admit that I'm torn on this. I'm certainly no high-end meta player, but I thoroughly enjoy this game's dungeons, and have low-manned many of them with friends. I'm used to (and very much enjoy) playing storymode dungeons with friends and guildies whenever somebody feels the urge to unlock dungeon explorables for another character (not often, but definitely a few times a year), enjoying cutscenes and scenery alike.

 

I can certainly understand why some people would like to enjoy the story but are wary to do so with strangers. I've had my share of bad apples pugging instanced group content. On the other hand I'm still sore about what they did with Arah story mode, which to me lost a lot of its charm in the re-work that made it soloable, since downscaling seldom leads to (to me) satisfactory results. It's got parts that are still frustrating to solo, while others have turned into boring "watch or do chores" scenes for me.

 

Turning instanced group content into scaleable solo-or-group instances in my experience takes a lot of work for an often meh result. I understand why people would like access to that story (I'm still "missing" part of the raid story for similar reasons), but my gut feeling reacts with "hands off those dungeons, don't mess them up" anyway 😉 .

 

For those of you on EU that would like to experience the storymode dungeons without haste and with plenty of times for the story, feel free to drop me a message either here on the forums or in game. I'd love to play them again (haven't played the full set in a while) and have a good bit of free time coming up in December, so now's the perfect time (for me) to team up and explore that storyline 🙂 .

[Rasimir.6239]

1 minute ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Paths 1, 2, 3 or whatever are also "story". You still "need" a party to complete the dungeon for those paths. We can rename "story mode" into "introduction" and you are no longer obligated to do the story mode.

To be fair, explorable stories are stand-alone. The different explorable paths of a dungeon interconnect, but that's it. The storymode dungeons though have a cohesive story that runs in parallel to the personal story, starting with Eir and Rytlock running off to the Ascalonian Catacombs after the break-up at the fountain in Lions Arch (the intro instance of the personal story level 40 arch), and ending with all of them coming back together in the Arah story dungeon (which used to be a full storymode dungeon and a part of the personal story at the same time, and has since been changed into a soloable instance so people aren't blocked from finishing their personal story by a group instance).

 

Storymode dungeons do tell a story independently of those dungeons (and their explorable modes), and this story is interconnected with the personal story.

[Bingus.4236]

13 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Well, story mode isn't the same as running the explorable Dungeon paths, so the whole point is to have it easier if you are entering alone so that you can play through the story mode alone.

I think the only Dungeon I've solo'd in story mode so far was Ascalon. But I know I have characters/professions that I wouldn't be able to do any of them solo - however, I would love to be able to do it so that each of my characters can complete the story mode for Dungeons. In the current state, I couldn't be arsed to play story mode with more than two of my chars simply because I don't want to have to group up for them and then feel rushed to skip cinematics and have no time for exploration, either.

 

I put up an LFG something like "Story mode with cutscenes" and it got people quite quickly, all people levelling and nobody rushed ahead. It is doable, just be upfront about what you want.

[Randulf.7614]

6 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

In the current year (It is 2022) full exotic power builds with elite specializations can put out substantially more damage than core variants of the same class back in 2012-2015.

Utilizing an example here

Power Core Necromancer was kind of trash back in the day.  It barely pulled any decent numbers, but was tanky as heck with shroud and could kite reliably.

Now let's go with reaper.  You have two traits that buff shroud directly.  They each give +300 (20%) crit damage. While downscaled to 30, this goes up to 80%.  You also have ~85% crit chance while in shroud.  Most bosses get shredded by numbers that high, especially if you time shroud with a bar break.  There's almost nothing in vanilla dungeons that can survive that.

Take that build above and mix it with someone else playing boon support and you can effectively duo most dungeons.  You cannot truthfully tell me that it'd take you 3 hours to find a single other person to do dungeon story modes with.

I don’t disagree that’s it’s easier to try and solo them with the power creep. I fully disagree it’s actually easy to do. The skill gap between players is monstrous and the dungeons even now are not on the level of being naturally solo-able. Those People who do it do so because they are skilled enough.

As for finding players in 3 hours, I would utilise a guild or a friend. If I had to wait more than half hour, I wouldn’t bother. Others may find that to be different of course.

[Linken.6345]

9 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I don’t disagree that’s it’s easier to try and solo them with the power creep. I fully disagree it’s actually easy to do. The skill gap between players is monstrous and the dungeons even now are not on the level of being naturally solo-able. Those People who do it do so because they are skilled enough.

As for finding players in 3 hours, I would utilise a guild or a friend. If I had to wait more than half hour, I wouldn’t bother. Others may find that to be different of course.

You dont have to wait tho just go do something else while party fills up.

There are waypoints close to each dungeon so just 1 map hop away.

[Ashantara.8731]

12 minutes ago, Bingus.4236 said:

I put up an LFG something like "Story mode with cutscenes" and it got people quite quickly, all people levelling and nobody rushed ahead. It is doable, just be upfront about what you want.

That's not really the point, though. This topic is about having an option to solo them without it turning into a meta-rotation exercise.

I could do them with people from our community guild, organized and all. No LFG required. I still would love to be able to have a story mode with story mission difficulty.

[Stelawrat.6589]

4 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

here you go

Hope that is recent enough for you.

A great video by an obviously passionate, skilled player, I especially liked the choice of music. 🎶 Unfortunately, while we share a passion for GW2 & music, I think it's pretty safe to say that I will never share this skill level, whether in story mode or explorable.

If I'd known that this was the level of skill required to solo a dungeon, then I wouldn't have thought that these dungeons were another part of the game, that I could play through in chronological order, which is how I prefer to play. 

I'm not a fan of anything at all being "dumbed down", in real life or in game, so I hope that's not the perception of the subject of this thread. 

Maybe if I hadn't received mail from my Herald at level 30 & gone in there, a wide-eyed noob, looking for adventure, only to be mercilessly crushed, repeatedly no less because I was determined don't you know!! 

Then maybe I'd feel differently, but as it is, I still agree with the OP. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Stelawrat.6589

[Linken.6345]

14 minutes ago, Stelawrat.6589 said:

A great video by an obviously passionate, skilled player, I especially liked the choice of music. 🎶 Unfortunately, while we share a passion for GW2 & music, I think it's pretty safe to say that I will never share this skill level, whether in story mode or explorable.

If I'd known that this was the level of skill required to solo a dungeon, then I wouldn't have thought that these dungeons were another part of the game, that I could play through in chronological order, which is how I prefer to play. 

I'm not a fan of anything at all being "dumbed down", in real life or in game, so I hope that's not the perception of the subject of this thread. 

Maybe if I hadn't received mail from my Herald at level 30 & gone in there, a wide-eyed noob, looking for adventure, only to be mercilessly crushed, repeatedly no less because I was determined don't you know!! 

Then maybe I'd feel differently, but as it is, I still agree with the OP. 

So the text in the dungeon pop up saying

Recommended players 5

was totaly missed by you then?

[AgentMoore.9453]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Top tier players being maybe like 50% better than in the early days of gw2 (and i'm not even sure it's that high - we don't really have any decent numbers from the FGS trick times) doesn't change the fact that most people interested in story modes are still way below what was considered merely good (but not yet OP or top tier) in 2014.

First, this is your 6969th post - (Nice)

Second, yes, absolutely this. And while we seem to be surviving that gap in skill (more or less) across other areas of the game, it shouldn't act as a barrier to personal story progress. It's all well and good to be of the view that the rest of the dungeon paths should be left alone since you only encounter them after your story is done, but the baseline introductory experience with dungeons (story mode) should absolutely be something a majority of players can experience alone and on their own terms in addition to being able to bring friends.

Whether that's achieved through scaling or some other method isn't nearly as important as the end goal, which is ensuring that the primary elements of the core story can always be experienced by the average player whether you have backup available to you or not.

The story (especially these early stories being played by new users) is supposed to introduce you to the game. The lore, the world, the mechanics, the skills and such. It should be as accessible as possible for as many players as possible, not just those choosing to play an RPGGG (Roleplaying Git Gud Game).

[Stelawrat.6589]

7 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

So the text in the dungeon pop up saying

Recommended players 5

was totaly missed by you then?

No Linken, it wasn't missed by me but, just as you've indicated by uploading the video, players, myself included, will try to challenge games at all levels, even noobs. It's part of the adventure, exploring the unknown, testing yourself, all things that I'm a fan of, so sorry, not sorry... 😕

[Gibson.4036]

14 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I think them being solo-able is very much a skill based thing. They aren’t naturally solo-able for what I would guess to be most of us

Agreed.

I'm very far from a top tier player, but I definitely understand the game better than a great number of people who have to be yelled at to use CC on breakbars and never seem to move or dodge. I'm guessing I'm a middling player. So far soloing dungeons seem out of reach for me, though I admit I haven't put a huge amount of effort into trying to master soloing them.

I have a lot of difficulty soloing most HoT HPs, but recently my son and I were taking two characters through to get HPs, and the two of us managed most of them easily. I just realized I should take that as a sign it might be time for two of us to try some core dungeons duo.

4 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

 Instead of making dungeons single player, just create player incentive to replay them, increasing the population and interest of dungeons altogether. Although I don't know for how long can you make players participate in content that is decades old. 

I think that might be worse for new or casual players than the current situation. If dungeons are given new rewards that appeal to seasoned players, the amount of players who want to just get through them as quickly as possible will skyrocket.

Many, many years ago I did a few dungeons with my guild at the time. They shared enough information for me to survive, but they knew the dungeon so well that they carried me through it and it went so fast I had no chance to figure out any of the mechanics well enough I could do it again.

You can find teaching guilds, and you can find players willing to do dungeons and let you learn, but they do it out of good will. New rewards wouldn't increase that, and would probably actively work against it as players have a new reason to do them as efficiently as possible.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Gibson.4036