Things I'd Like To See Change QOL Style - Class Balance/Design Stuff

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1. Warrior - 300s ICD, do something about it.
2. Guardian - Signet of Mercy, needs some kind of nerf. In fact all revive skills need nerfs. You know what? Revive power in general needs attention.
3. Revenant - Forced Engagement, either fix the taunt bug that prevents stun breaks from working with it or change how the skill works.
4. Ranger - Lightning Reflexes, remove the kitten damage proc from LR, ty.
5. Thief - Smoke Screen, this skill needs straight nerfing.
6. Engineer - Flashbang, needs a rework. This trait is obnoxiously oppressive in conjunction with all the other hard & soft CC that Engineer provides.
7. Necromancer - Shroud has still not been adjusted after the global -33% damage nerf. Oh and Fear Ring, yeeeeah, needs attention.
8. Elementalist - Gale, should not be unblockable.
9. Mesmer - This class plays like an RNG slot machine nowadays. It's become too reliant on jank effects rather than skill based play. It needs attention.

2v2/3v3 arenas are still too small with no room to kite and have way too much LOS potential that is thin, so it stops projectiles but allows AoE ground targets or pulses to hit through objects all over the place. Everything about these arenas are designed to reward zergy zergy and to punish precision/accuracy based builds. It limits the gameplay experience to running only 3 or 4 build structures that actually work in these maps.

Furthermore, if there are no plans to really do anything with spvp, can we at least have a handful of new conquest maps to play in? That'd be awesome.

~ Thanks.

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

9 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

1. Warrior - 300s ICD, do something about it.
2. Guardian - Signet of Mercy, needs some kind of nerf. In fact all revive skills need nerfs. You know what? Revive power in general needs attention.
3. Revenant - Forced Engagement, either fix the taunt bug that prevents stun breaks from working with it or change how the skill works.
4. Ranger - Lightning Reflexes, remove the kitten damage proc from LR, ty.
5. Thief - Smoke Screen, this skill needs straight nerfing.
6. Engineer - Flashbang, needs a rework. This trait is obnoxiously oppressive in conjunction with all the other hard & soft CC that Engineer provides.
7. Necromancer - Shroud has still not been adjusted after the global -33% damage nerf.
8. Elementalist - Gale, should not be unblockable.
9. Mesmer - This class plays like an RNG slot machine nowadays. It's become too reliant on jank effects rather than skill based play. It needs attention.

2v2/3v3 arenas are still too small with no room to kite and have way too much LOS potential that is thin, so it stops projectiles but allows AoE ground targets or pulses to hit through objects all over the place. Everything about these arenas are designed to reward zergy zergy and to punish precision/accuracy based builds. It limits the gameplay experience to running only 3 or 4 build structures that actually work in these maps.

Furthermore, if there are no plans to really do anything with spvp, can we at least have a handful of new conquest maps to play in? That'd be awesome.

~ Thanks.

 

Warrior needs a lot more than its 300s ICD traits fixed, but yeah, that'd be a great start!

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

36 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Warrior needs a lot more than its 300s ICD traits fixed, but yeah, that'd be a great start!

Yes

With this thread however, I was aiming at pointing out what I felt were the largest detrimentally broken things about each class, rather than general balance suggestions.

You know, things that just REALLY NEED to be fixed. Things like 300s ICD or Taunts that randomly can't be broken by some stun breaks in the game. <- That is just actual broken design. These aren't even balance suggestions.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yes

With this thread however, I was aiming at pointing out what I felt were the largest detrimentally broken things about each class, rather than general balance suggestions.

You know, things that just REALLY NEED to be fixed. Things like 300s ICD or Taunts that randomly can't be broken by some stun breaks in the game. <- That is just actual broken design. These aren't even balance suggestions.

*Sips tea*

If you give me -10 cd on my stances (and -15 on zerker stance since it only clears blind/weakness/mobility condis now and isnt worth the 30 second cd) and  -5 secs on my shield 5 CD, they can keep the 300 sec cd. Passives aren't necessary and fixing them is not in any way the priority for warrior. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Morwath.9817]

I'd like to see Lich going on long, long walk far away to the distant lands.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

13 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Elementalist - Gale, should not be unblockable.

Out of all possible broken things on Elementalist, you've decided to cherry pick 40s(32 traited) cd hard cc?
You know that there's kitten load of stun breaks that have like 30s or less base cd? (waving at Lightning Reflexes)
How is that even a problem skill?

[Khalisto.5780]

I agree on mostly everything

 

Gale nerf i'm not sure, gale nerf is kinda ranger lb 4, you know the bad ranger will swap to bow and use it immediatly if he doesn't well he's playing right

 

Necro spectral ring yes nerf, also I'd go for staff lifeforce generation and blood ress

 

Ressing skills, not traits, i think are ok, what is annoying about it is how much stab and blocks guardian have making it very hard to interrupt

 

smokescreen nerf yes

flashbang nerf yes

 

mesmer i don't know, you can see RIP making to top 10 EU almost every season, not sure if making it a gold tier faceroll style would be any good

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Give core mes a cleanse on one of their heals and delete the signet invuln trait.

Buff staff ele delete shocking aura sharing nerf earth shield

Nerf every necro skill by 25% and make playing one in pvp give dishonor

Delete shadow arts

Delete flashbang

Nerf ranger stun breaks and pet damage

Make war weapon swap 5s baseline give FC another 1/4 second delay on the daze

Remove movement slowing/locking on gs and hammer nerf symbolic power nerf blocks & blinds nerf ToF

Nerf enchanted daggers damage nerf true nature damage remove phase traversal unblockable & quickness if skill doesnt hit

 

 

[Stallic.2397]

Gale nerf? Really? One of the only unblockables Elem has. 

 

Yeah, that's a no. What do you want to nerf next? conjures?? Oh wait, someone just wrote that too. 

 

Man, the lack of skill these days. 

[greedywholesome.9081]

2 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

Gale nerf? Really? One of the only unblockables Elem has. 

 

Yeah, that's a no. What do you want to nerf next? conjures?? Oh wait, someone just wrote that too. 

 

Man, the lack of skill these days. 

I don't think I've read the memo about anyone wanting to nerf conjures. I mean come on, AI conjures are the antithesis of skill. And yes we need more unblockables like Gale, not nerf it. Yikes. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

I'd like to dedicate some special focus to Fear Ring.

#1 most disgusting utility in the game right now.

Just nerfing this one skill, would significantly nerf Necromancer in general.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Math.5123]

9 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

Gale nerf? Really? One of the only unblockables Elem has. 

 

Yeah, that's a no. What do you want to nerf next? conjures?? Oh wait, someone just wrote that too. 

 

Man, the lack of skill these days. 

Tornado, gale, weave self, earth shield pull, mud slide and shocking aura procs on lingering aoes. Ele has the most unblockable ccs in the game. 

[Sltrmhcaoou.2305]

ele has the most degenerate CC in the game
unblockable CC, kitten that goes through walls, unevadable CC, persisting aoe CC, and shocking aura...
doesnt mean the class is broken and should be nerf but we gotta accept it for what it is, and if you start removing/nerfing those things the class would need to be compensated in some way.
Like I get it, gale is annoying as kitten, but making it blockable just makes a class almost nobody plays weaker as a whole and that in itself is never a good thing

[Morwath.9817]

Be happy Gale doesn't happen every 5 seconds, like it did in GW1 😁

[Genesis.5169]

No more nerfs. I agree with every buff here tho.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

14 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

Gale nerf? Really? One of the only unblockables Elem has. 

 

Yeah, that's a no. What do you want to nerf next? conjures?? Oh wait, someone just wrote that too. 

 

Man, the lack of skill these days. 

earth shield kind of op fgs fine but cooldown too long the rest are trash

[Avatar.3568]

3 hours ago, oralcumshot.9214 said:

ele has the most degenerate CC in the game
unblockable CC, kitten that goes through walls, unevadable CC, persisting aoe CC, and shocking aura...
doesnt mean the class is broken and should be nerf but we gotta accept it for what it is, and if you start removing/nerfing those things the class would need to be compensated in some way.
Like I get it, gale is annoying as kitten, but making it blockable just makes a class almost nobody plays weaker as a whole and that in itself is never a good thing

There is no undogdeable cc

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

20 minutes ago, Avatar.3568 said:

There is no undogdeable cc

maybe they fought a staff ele and tried to dodge through static field or unsteady ground

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Tornado, gale, weave self, earth shield pull, mud slide and shocking aura procs on lingering aoes. Ele has the most unblockable ccs in the game. 

Exactly, it's too much.

4 hours ago, oralcumshot.9214 said:

ele has the most degenerate CC in the game
unblockable CC, kitten that goes through walls, unevadable CC, persisting aoe CC, and shocking aura...
doesnt mean the class is broken and should be nerf but we gotta accept it for what it is, and if you start removing/nerfing those things the class would need to be compensated in some way.
Like I get it, gale is annoying as kitten, but making it blockable just makes a class almost nobody plays weaker as a whole and that in itself is never a good thing

It's too much unblockable/passive CC.

Gale in particular is to long of range, no tells, lasts too long.

It's like a cheap death shot. It's too powerful of an assist considering all of the other OP CC it has.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

58 minutes ago, Avatar.3568 said:

There is no undogdeable cc

Yeah if you can see it coming, which you can't.

[Stallic.2397]

7 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Tornado, gale, weave self, earth shield pull, mud slide and shocking aura procs on lingering aoes. Ele has the most unblockable ccs in the game. 

 

Weave self and mud slide are both weaver skills and are more appropriate to nerfing than core ele skills. But honestly, why nerf them? What's the difference between mud slide and Engie Slick shoes. Which is way easier to execute. Or weaver elite cc and Chrono gravity well. In comparison, those are both way better skills than what Weaver gets

 

Elem has good cc output cause it's part of their rotation to Lockdown enemies. Very similar to how Warrior works. 

 

Given Elem's lack of weapon swap, how else are they supposed to chase down enemies? Shocking aura and mud slide are both Dagger abilities. Meaning any range foe already has a huge advantage.

 

Tornado is such a weak skill, I wouldn't even justify it. Whenever I see tornado executed, I just focus and kill. Blinds, roots, condi dots, literally anything can destroy tornado or force the ele out of the transformation. Only time tornado works is if they got the jump on you, which shouldn't be punished. Otherwise, what's the point of competition then?

[Math.5123]

4 minutes ago, Stallic.2397 said:

 

Weave self and mud slide are both weaver skills and are more appropriate to nerfing than core ele skills. But honestly, why nerf them? What's the difference between mud slide and Engie Slick shoes. Which is way easier to execute. Or weaver elite cc and Chrono gravity well. In comparison, those are both way better skills than what Weaver gets

 

Elem has good cc output cause it's part of their rotation to Lockdown enemies. Very similar to how Warrior works. 

 

Given Elem's lack of weapon swap, how else are they supposed to chase down enemies? Shocking aura and mud slide are both Dagger abilities. Meaning any range foe already has a huge advantage.

 

Tornado is such a weak skill, I wouldn't even justify it. Whenever I see tornado executed, I just focus and kill. Blinds, roots, condi dots, literally anything can destroy tornado or force the ele out of the transformation. Only time tornado works is if they got the jump on you, which shouldn't be punished. Otherwise, what's the point of competition then?

I don't know how to format this well on the phone so you'll have to excuse me for doing so poorly. 

 

The difference between mud slide and slick shoes is that one is a utility skill. Mud Slide can knockdown twice while slick shoes can do it twice and mud slide has half the cooldown.

 

The difference between weave self and gravity well are too numerous to count. I don't know why you didn't bring up prime light beam instead which is also an unblockable cc elite. But weave self is unblockable and gravity well is not. 

 

Eles lack of weapon swap is greatly alleviated by attunement swapping. But I get your point. 

I also get your point that ele needs cc to stay on their target, but you do have access to other means as well. Especially very high superspeed in air. Wether it's worth traiting in to or not is not part of this discussion. 

 

Calling Tornado a bad skill is honestly just delusional. It's very good at what it does. It has potentially 3 unblockable launches during its duration which guarantees a decap against almost any class. It hits like an absolute truck with lightning rod and it pulses stability. 

 

I'm not arguing ele is some be all and end all meta class, but saying Gale is one of the only unblockable ele has when it has the most out of any class in the game is not only just dishonest but also trivializes the whole reason for discussion. 

 

I'm obviously biased from you opposite perspective in that I'm playing dps guard. Which gets absolutely steamrolled by LR weaver due to having to run shelter and being destroyed by perma weakness uptime. But hey, at least we can discuss things like normal people. 

[Stallic.2397]

2 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

I don't know how to format this well on the phone so you'll have to excuse me for doing so poorly. 

 

The difference between mud slide and slick shoes is that one is a utility skill. Mud Slide can knockdown twice while slick shoes can do it twice and mud slide has half the cooldown.

 

The difference between weave self and gravity well are too numerous to count. I don't know why you didn't bring up prime light beam instead which is also an unblockable cc elite. But weave self is unblockable and gravity well is not. 

 

Eles lack of weapon swap is greatly alleviated by attunement swapping. But I get your point. 

I also get your point that ele needs cc to stay on their target, but you do have access to other means as well. Especially very high superspeed in air. Wether it's worth traiting in to or not is not part of this discussion. 

 

Calling Tornado a bad skill is honestly just delusional. It's very good at what it does. It has potentially 3 unblockable launches during its duration which guarantees a decap against almost any class. It hits like an absolute truck with lightning rod and it pulses stability. 

 

I'm not arguing ele is some be all and end all meta class, but saying Gale is one of the only unblockable ele has when it has the most out of any class in the game is not only just dishonest but also trivializes the whole reason for discussion. 

 

I'm obviously biased from you opposite perspective in that I'm playing dps guard. Which gets absolutely steamrolled by LR weaver due to having to run shelter and being destroyed by perma weakness uptime. But hey, at least we can discuss things like normal people. 

 

This does sounds like you want to nerf weaver. Which I wouldn't argue here, even though I think weaver is fine. But nerfing weaver and nerfing core Elem (gale) are two different things to me. 

 

LR weaver has very strong cc potential, combined with damage if traited. But that's the whole point. Traiting into air is a big risk in itself. LR weaver is weak mostly cause it's lack of condi cleanse and other sustain. But anyhow, all these points tie closer to a nerf request for Lightning rod- Not elem cc's. Lightning rod is a whole different discussion. Asking for a skill nerf because combined with a trait, it's too strong, isn't the right way to go about something. 

 

Tornado isn't powerful. Especially in comparison to other elites like lich, elixer h, or other transforms like rampage. Honestly, any comparison between all those elites and tornado would come out last. Given the ways I mentioned to counter it, I wouldn't call it strong at all. 

 

And slick shoes being a utility... Is a good thing! Mud slide not only forces you to take Dagger, but you have to do the right rotation to even get access to that skill. To simplify, if you want to use mud slide, you have to do an 8sec rotation just to get access to it. Mudslide is 20 sec CD and slick shoes is 40 but that can be traited lower. Even if not, it's a more mobile skill, and grants a secondary break stun skill. Slick shoes is also instant cast. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Stallic.2397

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

I don't know how to format this well on the phone so you'll have to excuse me for doing so poorly. 

 

The difference between mud slide and slick shoes is that one is a utility skill. Mud Slide can knockdown twice while slick shoes can do it twice and mud slide has half the cooldown.

 

The difference between weave self and gravity well are too numerous to count. I don't know why you didn't bring up prime light beam instead which is also an unblockable cc elite. But weave self is unblockable and gravity well is not. 

 

Eles lack of weapon swap is greatly alleviated by attunement swapping. But I get your point. 

I also get your point that ele needs cc to stay on their target, but you do have access to other means as well. Especially very high superspeed in air. Wether it's worth traiting in to or not is not part of this discussion. 

 

Calling Tornado a bad skill is honestly just delusional. It's very good at what it does. It has potentially 3 unblockable launches during its duration which guarantees a decap against almost any class. It hits like an absolute truck with lightning rod and it pulses stability. 

 

I'm not arguing ele is some be all and end all meta class, but saying Gale is one of the only unblockable ele has when it has the most out of any class in the game is not only just dishonest but also trivializes the whole reason for discussion. 

 

I'm obviously biased from you opposite perspective in that I'm playing dps guard. Which gets absolutely steamrolled by LR weaver due to having to run shelter and being destroyed by perma weakness uptime. But hey, at least we can discuss things like normal people. 

The difference is that playing a marauder LR weaver at a level where you are considered a threat, takes at least 5x the effort/skill of playing something like a ranger or guardian or...an engi.

I can assume that all "pro" here can play a  LR weaver as good as @Grimjack.7359 or @Blamthrax.9785.....yeah right...somehow I strongly doubt that.

Anybody can play a ranger, guardian, engineer and be a menace in GW2 with very little effort.....but put the same players on a marauder ele...and they'd last 1/3 of the time it would take to say "ohhh kitten"

 

 

P.s...this "fake" concern for warrior's balance is cringeworthy....unless played at @VaAnSs.1567 level, the class is a clown fiesta that a hamster on any other class can bring down 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Math.5123]

6 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

The difference is that playing a marauder LR weaver at a level where you are considered a threat, takes at least 5x the effort/skill of playing something like a ranger or guardian or...an engi.

I can assume that all "pro" here can play a  LR weaver as good as @Grimjack.7359 or @Blamthrax.9785.....yeah right...somehow I strongly doubt that.

Anybody can play a ranger, guardian, engineer and be a menace in GW2 with very little effort.....but put the same players on a marauder ele...and they'd last 1/3 of the time it would take to say "ohhh kitten"

Like I said in my post, I don't want to turn this into a balance discussion. I just pointed out the fact that ele does indeed have a lot of unblockable cc. I haven't said weaver is easy or hard to play, so no idea where you're getting that from. 

 

And having a higher skill floor should absolutely not mean the class outperforms other classes. That is not a way to balance a game. Also thinking any class in this game is hard to play is delusional rofl.

56 minutes ago, Stallic.2397 said:

 

This does sounds like you want to nerf weaver. Which I wouldn't argue here, even though I think weaver is fine. But nerfing weaver and nerfing core Elem (gale) are two different things to me. 

 

LR weaver has very strong cc potential, combined with damage if traited. But that's the whole point. Traiting into air is a big risk in itself. LR weaver is weak mostly cause it's lack of condi cleanse and other sustain. But anyhow, all these points tie closer to a nerf request for Lightning rod- Not elem cc's. Lightning rod is a whole different discussion. Asking for a skill nerf because combined with a trait, it's too strong, isn't the right way to go about something. 

 

Tornado isn't powerful. Especially in comparison to other elites like lich, elixer h, or other transforms like rampage. Honestly, any comparison between all those elites and tornado would come out last. Given the ways I mentioned to counter it, I wouldn't call it strong at all. 

 

And slick shoes being a utility... Is a good thing! Mud slide not only forces you to take Dagger, but you have to do the right rotation to even get access to that skill. To simplify, if you want to use mud slide, you have to do an 8sec rotation just to get access to it. Mudslide is 20 sec CD and slick shoes is 40 but that can be traited lower. Even if not, it's a more mobile skill, and grants a secondary break stun skill. Slick shoes is also instant cast. 

I literally said I didn't think ele was a meta breaking class. Stop putting words in my mouth. 

 

I do have an issue with lightning rod, but that's from a design standpoint. Not from it being strong or weak.