Rev as a Solo Roamer?

[Choppy.4183]

Heya revenants, just looking for opinions about how well the class holds up for solo roaming in wvw.

 

I've been doing that for maybe 8 years, mostly on warrior but I switched to ranger just over a year ago, and now I'm thinking of trying out a new heavy. Before I spend any time or gold on it, I figured I should ask the experts about how the class performs.  Pretty standard questions, like:

 

1. Is it fun to roam around on?
2. How does it hold up in 1vx situations?
3. How's the escape potential for when things get hot (like when the horde appears)?
4. What's it weak against?
5. Any other thoughts?

 

I tend to favor high damage mobile builds that rely on pressure, positioning, and dodging to survive, but I'm open to playing a class or build on its own terms to be effective (e.g. I played condi ranger for a while when I switched, and it's more tanky and less mobile than what I normally run). So it's no problem if rev makes me change up my playstyle.

 

Anyway, I appreciate any advice you're willing to share!

[Infusion.7149]

I wouldn't call myself an expert on roaming but from my experiences of playing the meta (squad) herald in WVW (i.e. including when off tag):

1 & 2. It isn't fun to play against stealth glass thieves (the most common roamer) unless you get a lucky hit in and they instadie, holos , bunker necros you no longer find in PVP due to amulets, spellbreakers (you have one stunbreak), WS rangers, or mesmers as a herald. Just the other day I 1v2ed a necro and some other class I don't remember and I killed the necro but couldn't outsustain 2 people's damage in Berserker's. It's quite good against players that are clueless if they don't expect power burst however.

3. If you use herald in general with glint or renegade with shiro , speed runes and rapid flow you have escape potential but not as much as a class with stealth

4. It's weak against heavy condi pressure and heavy CC (one stunbreak). Jalis clears 5 but then you don't have a heal after that. Heavy power burst damage from people that aren't paying close attention can be countered easily with infuse light and sustained power damage is largely negated on Jalis with hammers up.

5(a). Renegade is poor in squad environments since you lose 33% crit chance on dodge and shortbow is projectile but is servicable in solo situations because shortbow coefficients are not split as they are in PVP.
5(b). Dwarf hammers on jalis are your friend because they haven't split them in PVP/WVW and each hits for 0.2 coefficient and there's 3 hammers spinning, in damage logs you will see they do most of the damage in group scenarios. Double tapping True Nature provides stability as well.
5(c). Launch from Glint affects downstate if someone is ressing a downed person.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Telgum.6071]

1. That depends on you but yes it is fun. Great damage and simple but strong survivability, also is challenging so winning as Revenant is truly satisfactory. I used to abuse Renegade because it is so OP, specially on conditions, but once you get used to Herald you rarely miss Renegade. On my two last Revenants I don't even have Renegade unlocked.

2. Power Herald is more an assassin than a dueler, but thanks to staff and Glint skills is able to perform well on duels. The only downside is heavy condition pressure, which you can try to mitigate through cleansing sigils and perhaps runes, if you have legendary runes or armor to swap for free.

Renegade is the opposite, amazing dueler and even OP if you go Trailblazer or Celestial.

3. Depends of terrain. Revenant can use Phase Traversal towards targets (enemies, minions, enemy structures) to gain distance from heavy threads. The major downside is PT cost you 35 energy. Apart from that you can always get some time through staff skills and Glint's healing, but if you can't PT away, your escape is mediocre compared to Warrior or Ranger, classes that can outrun everything.

4. Answered on 2.

5. "I tend to favor high damage mobile builds that rely on pressure, positioning, and dodging to survive"

That's the definition of Power Herald. 

 

So answering your first concern, in general Revenant holds up great on solo gameplay but only if you perform well with the basics (energy management, fast combos and kiting). Power Herald can be hard to get into but is worth and more rewarding. Renegade is easier and maybe stronger.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Telgum.6071
Typo

[genjonah.1253]

9 hours ago, Choppy.4183 said:

Heya revenants, just looking for opinions about how well the class holds up for solo roaming in wvw.

 

I've been doing that for maybe 8 years, mostly on warrior but I switched to ranger just over a year ago, and now I'm thinking of trying out a new heavy. Before I spend any time or gold on it, I figured I should ask the experts about how the class performs.  Pretty standard questions, like:

 

1. Is it fun to roam around on?
2. How does it hold up in 1vx situations?
3. How's the escape potential for when things get hot (like when the horde appears)?
4. What's it weak against?
5. Any other thoughts?

 

I tend to favor high damage mobile builds that rely on pressure, positioning, and dodging to survive, but I'm open to playing a class or build on its own terms to be effective (e.g. I played condi ranger for a while when I switched, and it's more tanky and less mobile than what I normally run). So it's no problem if rev makes me change up my playstyle.

 

Anyway, I appreciate any advice you're willing to share!

1. Yes- I’ve found viable roaming builds for both herald and especially renegade

2. 1v1 celestial shortbow renegade does rather well. Struggles against burst soul beasts in my experience, but otherwise I do well against everything unless they are genuinely more skilled than I am (which, to be fair, happens a lot)

3. Both cele renegade and herald can permanently maintain swiftness. Additionally, Shiro (which I genuinely use on both those options) has two additional escape skills (though one requires a target to teleport to and the other requires you to face away from where you want to go- just takes a bit of getting used to)

4. Again, I’ve found the most trouble with burst soulbeast, but certain mesmers that know what they’re doing can also be a pain

5. Revenant is my favorite class, and soon we’re getting access to greatsword, too. So yeah, gets a high recommendation from me

[Charybdis.3695]

I use core Revenant for solo roaming. Shiro/Ventari is great for engaging, standing ground, chase and escape. So far it's been very reliable, especially against thieves. Hammer and staff 😎

1. Probably the most fun build I have been using in WvW.

2. 1v1 is either win or stalemate. I use the same equipment with Glint instead of Shiro and it pretty much guarantees to hold up against 2 while being able to down the weakest enemy.

3. Played right with energy you can get 2 or 3, sometimes 4 Shiro backroll dodges.

4. Condi mesmers. Using -20% condition duration food helps tremendously.

5. It's a clutch build that requires lots of practice. It's like playing a thief that uses healing instead of stealth with more access to blinds, with just enough DPS to force any opponent to react defensively or be downed.

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Echo.6310
Most of my post got deleted before it was saved.

[Choppy.4183]

On 12/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

3. If you use herald in general with glint or renegade with shiro , speed runes and rapid flow you have escape potential but not as much as a class with stealth

4. It's weak against heavy condi pressure and heavy CC (one stunbreak). Jalis clears 5 but then you don't have a heal after that. Heavy power burst damage from people that aren't paying close attention can be countered easily with infuse light and sustained power damage is largely negated on Jalis with hammers up.

Thanks for all of your answers. The two above in particular requires a bit more research on my side, I think. I came across a rev recently who managed to outrun a few people really efectively, but I'll have to get my head around the tricks you mentioned to see if/how they might work with how I'm used to playing. As it happens, I have speed runes in the bank. 

The weakness to condi pressure and CC is a BIG consideration though. As I'm sure you know, both are basically currency in wvw, and that becomes especially true if a group lands on you and you need to either hold your own or gtfo. 

On 12/19/2021 at 3:01 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

So answering your first concern, in general Revenant holds up great on solo gameplay but only if you perform well with the basics (energy management, fast combos and kiting). Power Herald can be hard to get into but is worth and more rewarding. Renegade is easier and maybe stronger.

Super great info, so thanks for that. It might be smart for me to start out with Renegade (if I go forward with Operation Rev) to get those basics down before moving onto Power Herald, even it it does seem more in line with my usual M.O. I recall friends having trouble with condi management while playing power rev when it first came out, but that might have been because they were still getting power management basics down. Or maybe herald helped shore that up a bit, I don't know. Anyway, thanks again for the tips.

18 hours ago, genjonah.1253 said:

2. 1v1 celestial shortbow renegade does rather well. Struggles against burst soul beasts in my experience, but otherwise I do well against everything unless they are genuinely more skilled than I am (which, to be fair, happens a lot)

This surprises me a bit, mostly because what I think are celestial shortbow renegades have been causing my bursty soulbeast some challenge lately, to the point that it's become a bit of a draw to the class. To be fair, quite a lot of celestial builds are causing me trouble these days, so it might just be particular to my build (I basically run glass with limited clears), and a soulbeast with Wilderness Survival and a GS might have more tools for the job. Still, it means I should give some more thought to how what appeared to be a pretty stronk build might struggle in solo play. Then again, if it's only weak against bursty soulbeasts, I can live with that. 😄 

3 hours ago, Echo.6310 said:

I use core Revenant for solo roaming. Shiro/Ventari is great for engaging, standing ground, chase and escape. So far it's been very reliable, especially against thieves. Hammer and staff 😎

1. Probably the most fun build I have been using in WvW.

2. 1v1 is either win or stalemate. I use the same equipment with Glint instead of Shiro and it pretty much guarantees to hold up against 2 while being able to down the weakest enemy.

3. Played right with energy you can get 3 or 4, sometimes 5 Shiro backroll dodges.

4. Condi mesmers. Using -20% condition duration food helps tremendously.

5. It's a clutch build that requires lots of practice. It's like playing a thief that uses healing instead of stealth with more access to blinds, with just enough DPS to force any opponent to react defensively or be downed.

Really surprised to hear core power holds up for solo roaming, especially against ganky thieves. That alone practically makes the sale, since they're murder on my warrior and a competent thief will know how to pick apart my ranger builds unless I get the jump on them (I can take them from full to zero in 3-4s if I do). I suspect your success might be heavily dependent on skill that I don't have though, in which case I may need to start with the basics on Renegade before graduating to this. Then again, as a solo roamer, I'm totally fine with dying... a lot. I'm basically a Zombie King by this point, so maybe I should just jump into the deep end.

Thank you all so much!👍

Edited December 20, 2021 by Choppy.4183
(edited for spacing)

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Rev is a fantastic roamer and based on what you say you are looking for, it would be right up your alley. I have been roaming on Rev for many years now and still love it to pieces. The majority of this has been solo roaming. Shortbow Cele Renegade is probably the strongest roaming Rev build out there right now, and is very easy to start up with. Power Herald is a high-skill build with big reward if you play it well. I myself prefer running power core Jalis/Shiro and have played that more than any Rev build since core got Ancient Echo. Core power Rev is easier to play than power Herald but still has a lot of room for skill and success. People sleep on it because "it's core" without understanding the advantages it brings in many matchups. 

[Choppy.4183]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:46 AM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

Rev is a fantastic roamer and based on what you say you are looking for, it would be right up your alley. I have been roaming on Rev for many years now and still love it to pieces. The majority of this has been solo roaming. Shortbow Cele Renegade is probably the strongest roaming Rev build out there right now, and is very easy to start up with. Power Herald is a high-skill build with big reward if you play it well. I myself prefer running power core Jalis/Shiro and have played that more than any Rev build since core got Ancient Echo. Core power Rev is easier to play than power Herald but still has a lot of room for skill and success. People sleep on it because "it's core" without understanding the advantages it brings in many matchups. 

Hey, thanks for that. I'd originally thought I'd be going for guardian, and only recently figured I should open it to rev. Based on the feedback, I think it's going to be rev and I just bought a couple of slots tonight to get started on it. 

Seems like cele renegade is the best place to start, and then I'll stretch out to my power options. So a big thanks to you and to everyone else for all of the great information!

[Infusion.7149]

@choppy, bonus is if you play cele ren you can reuse your gear for fractals (and some raids) as cele alac ren is a thing. The reason that is relevant (at least for me) was before I was full legendary I did fractals to fund WVW.

[Choppy.4183]

On 12/24/2021 at 6:51 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

@choppy, bonus is if you play cele ren you can reuse your gear for fractals (and some raids) as cele alac ren is a thing. The reason that is relevant (at least for me) was before I was full legendary I did fractals to fund WVW.

It's a good idea, but I've been exclusively played wvw for years. I've mule characters hauling all sorts of things I can use while I sort put how to play. Conversely, I can count the number of times I've been in fractals on one hand. 😀

Edited December 26, 2021 by Choppy.4183

[RisenHowl.2419]

 

[Choppy.4183]

5 hours ago, RisenHowl.2419 said:

 

Thanks for the vid. One thing that's clear from it and the limited time I've taken mine out is that I need to get a better handle in by defensive options and heal management. I do well offensively, but I don't handle pressure well yet, especially when I'm up against one of the stronger dueling classes or I get +x'd. Your vid shows it's just a matter of me better learning the build/class.

One question: I noticed you often stay camped on your hero, even when you run out of energy, whereas I'm switching as soon as I get in that spot to gain energy to power more attacks, the  swapping again when that energy runs out. Is there an advantage to camping or are you just not switching because you're focused on other aspects of the fight?

Edited December 26, 2021 by Choppy.4183

[RisenHowl.2419]

5 hours ago, Choppy.4183 said:

Thanks for the vid. One thing that's clear from it and the limited time I've taken mine out is that I need to get a better handle in by defensive options and heal management. I do well offensively, but I don't handle pressure well yet, especially when I'm up against one of the stronger dueling classes or I get +x'd. Your vid shows it's just a matter of me better learning the build/class.

One question: I noticed you often stay camped on your hero, even when you run out of energy, whereas I'm switching as soon as I get in that spot to gain energy to power more attacks, the  swapping again when that energy runs out. Is there an advantage to camping or are you just not switching because you're focused on other aspects of the fight?

sometimes it's due to focus on other aspects of the fight, sometimes I camp a legend to drain energy to <10 so i get 75 when i swap to the new legend

[Bakeneko.5826]

It needs serious nerf, thats all i gonna say

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

My alt account has a rev on it that I am focusing on. Take a Cleansing Sigil on one weapon set. I will say that you'll notice that damage comes much more easily than on your old warrior, but the single stunbreak and condi cleanse will hurt if you don't build around them.  You can swap legends to access it's stunbreak and heal if you need to do so.

[Tulkas.2576]

I’ve been using Vallun’s fallen angel herald build for the past few months and it’s some of the most fun I’ve had roaming. 
There’s no class that I feel hopeless against, which is great, because unless the person is much more skilled than I am, I feel like I have a chance against any other profession. 
I’ve managed to 1v2 a lot of people and even some 1v3’s I’ve managed to win. 
The build is a lot of fun, it’s fast paced, mobile, tanky and because so much of your damage comes passively from legend swapping, it allows me to focus on positioning, defences and counter play, which is great cause I don’t have enough mental bandwidth to manage too many things at once. 

Condi mirage, condi thieves and Ele roamers are also very easy to handle with this build if you use the anti toxin runes which is so nice because usually those profs are awful to fight against on so many other builds. 
 

it took me a few weeks to get decent on it, but I’m glad I took the time. It really is a lot of fun. 
I also use the exact build for SPVP with wizard amulet and divinity runes and it’s pretty good there too. 

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

In wvw herald used to be so fun and effective. They nerfed it about 4 times too much and now it can’t really do much more than some 1v1s maybe a 1v2 If you’re good or get lucky.

back in the day I was 1v3ing decent people on it. But now, rip.

[Choppy.4183]

6 hours ago, Tulkas.2576 said:

I’ve been using Vallun’s fallen angel herald build for the past few months and it’s some of the most fun I’ve had roaming. 
There’s no class that I feel hopeless against, which is great, because unless the person is much more skilled than I am, I feel like I have a chance against any other profession. 
I’ve managed to 1v2 a lot of people and even some 1v3’s I’ve managed to win. 
The build is a lot of fun, it’s fast paced, mobile, tanky and because so much of your damage comes passively from legend swapping, it allows me to focus on positioning, defences and counter play, which is great cause I don’t have enough mental bandwidth to manage too many things at once. 

Condi mirage, condi thieves and Ele roamers are also very easy to handle with this build if you use the anti toxin runes which is so nice because usually those profs are awful to fight against on so many other builds. 
 

it took me a few weeks to get decent on it, but I’m glad I took the time. It really is a lot of fun. 
I also use the exact build for SPVP with wizard amulet and divinity runes and it’s pretty good there too. 

 

I haven't heard of that one before so will check it out for sure. He usually has pretty great explanatory videos of his builds, so that seems like a good place to start. Thanks for the tip!

[ASP.8093]

Torment runes give you a lot of easy staying power in any condi/cele build. You mostly just have to worry about not getting CCed to hell at a moment when you can't afford a stun break.

I've seen good Shiro Heralds demolish people 2v5/1v5 by combining ports and kiting with their big burst combos.

The best roamer builds for actually pursuing objectives will always have a bit of stealth to help them escape truly dire situations, though.

Edited January 1, 2022 by ASP.8093

[Tulkas.2576]

25 minutes ago, Choppy.4183 said:

 

I haven't heard of that one before so will check it out for sure. He usually has pretty great explanatory videos of his builds, so that seems like a good place to start. Thanks for the tip!

yeah his video has some great advice. Also watch his revenant “one build to rule them all” video as well. It’s essentially the same build but with leadership runes, but it also has some great explanations on the build as well. Even his power herald roamer video has some helpful tips because they both use glint/jalis.  
 

the other cool thing about it is that you won’t come across many people running the same build. Most revs seem to go cele renegade or power herald and there’s something kind of fun about using something a little different. 

[Jobber.6348]

Rev has always been a good solo roamer, but solo roaming as a whole has taken a hit due to how the meta shifted since The Great Nuke patch. (you know the one) 

Right now, I'll say Rev is still decently strong as a solo roamer, much better than some other classes and much weaker than certain builds. Depending on build, their strengths and weaknesses are still pretty much the same. 

I still play a Core Power Rev to this day, and will continue playing one even when Vindi comes out. 

[Master Ketsu.4569]

It's fun if you find rev fun and are good at rev, but it's not the best roamer due to poor options when being outnumbered / zerged.  Most classes have either a long range teleport, stealth, or gap closers that don't require a target to use. The best you have on Rev is riposting shadows and some superspeed. You can kite for a while on Rev, but the reality is the only way to deal with zergs is to be able to get away long enough to drop combat which Rev can't really do.  

 

[Buran.3796]

   The whole concept of winning 1 vs n in this game is silly. As a general rule, given builds designed to duel or roam and perfectly played, no build will be able to  win1 vs 2, ever. What you see when someone does that, winning several figths  on a row or winning some small fights outnumbered, is a disparity in skill.

   Rev is fine as a roamer, not at the top of the food chain, but not bottom either. Best roamers are builds able to easily disengage and leave a fight or reset it, and there's better classes for that than Revenant, but they are also way worse examples.

[Choppy.4183]

7 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   The whole concept of winning 1 vs n in this game is silly. As a general rule, given builds designed to duel or roam and perfectly played, no build will be able to  win1 vs 2, ever. What you see when someone does that, winning several figths  on a row or winning some small fights outnumbered, is a disparity in skill.

   Rev is fine as a roamer, not at the top of the food chain, but not bottom either. Best roamers are builds able to easily disengage and leave a fight or reset it, and there's better classes for that than Revenant, but they are also way worse examples.

 You seem to have missed the point of the 1vx question. 1vx is inevitable when solo roaming, the question was what tools rev has to deal with that (if any) or if it's just a bag waiting to drop into x's inve tory. Some classes are better suited to fighting outnumbered that others, some have good escape options, etc.

[Buran.3796]

On 1/3/2022 at 5:38 AM, Choppy.4183 said:

 You seem to have missed the point of the 1vx question. 1vx is inevitable when solo roaming, the question was what tools rev has to deal with that (if any) or if it's just a bag waiting to drop into x's inve tory. Some classes are better suited to fighting outnumbered that others, some have good escape options, etc.

  Check TubyTwoTons (TubyEatWorld) in Youtube and Twitch, He's an excellent Revenant WvW roamer which oftenly describes the whole hotkey dance He's performing while fighting so you can get a very instructional Idea of what combos He uses, which are the timings and the decision choices He makes along the fights, it will allow you to form a better idea about the strong and weak points of the class.

   Another notable content creators with a lot of Revenant focused content is Nici, I known another couple which are buried somewhere in my fav list but sadly WvW became so stagnated that some of those exceptional guys ceased to release new videos long time ago. Of course, you have very good videos from Vallun, but He's a a multiclass player which mains Thief and is not as peak running Revs as some of the names I cited not the best PvP Rev players.

    The tools of the Rev change greatly based on the build: Power Herald is imo the best at dueling, a mele fighter with strong burst of damage, good sustain and mobility but weak to conditions and stealth or ranged pressure.

   Condition Renegade, instead, has a strong ranged game, is tanky and is very resilient vs conditions, with tons of mitigation and good cc, but a bit less mobile. If your goal is to stack WvW pips AFAP I think is the best choice, due how fast and safely melts enemy camps while running around the whole map, the quickest way to farm WvW progression as a roamer.

   The Celestial Revenant variants have very impactful AoE damage and shine in small skirmishes, with tanky stats and constant pressure, but oftenly are worse in mobility and suffer against classes which have plenty of that.