Remove Boons or WvW WILL die..

[kash.9213]

I don't need to be chosen for anything as a thief, I'll just get dumped in a group with other thieves anyway.

If someone has boons I'll take them, and if they're in a boon ball, I can snipe them or pull them out when they run down a lane. If you take out one or two key support then it can cascade anyway. 

WvW mode is boring at it's core. There's nothing to do really but hang out in a lobby or near a bank and Trader until a fight breaks out that looks like it might be more than one blob crashing face first into another, and then get there before it's over. Boons and balance aren't a factor in that. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by kash.9213

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

3 hours ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

 

Pass me that Copium. 

Your response to someone telling you that 3 out of your 4 claims are wrong is that, wonderful.

[Gobcrack.9320]

17 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Your response to someone telling you that 3 out of your 4 claims are wrong is that, wonderful.

 

Plenty of people agree with me, matter in fact more people support me and the ideas I brought then give it criticism.

 

The guy who I responded to literally gave his one dimensional take on the situation and it wasn't worth more than the response I gave him, and quite frankly I think you and everyone else who doesn't take my post seriously is on some serious Copium.

 

There's flaws, there's issues and one guy closing his eyes and pretending like it's not real doesn't magically make the problems go away.

[Zikory.6871]

On 1/22/2022 at 10:21 PM, Gobcrack.9320 said:

• Shorten Boon Durations in WvW gameplay
• Remove problematic Boons that are being abused
• Nerf Boon-Strip builds to compensate for Boon nerfs to freshen Necro meta

I mean, I thought this post was satire. 1 and 2 are just called balance, your ideas are fine but who cares if we only get one every couple years, just gives players time to practice abusing what's available. 

3 is just hilarious tbh. Necro has been core in WvW since release. They just spent a few years nerfing Scourge, remember when people would just run 30+ scourge with a couple 10 man stab Firebrands? Just wait until Harbinger brings the Boon Necro meta...

Honestly, a vast majority of people just don't strip boons. 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

Plenty of people agree with me, matter in fact more people support me and the ideas I brought then give it criticism.

Except I didn't say anything about your ideas. I mentioned how WvW is so dead there are always 30+ queues and how almost wherever I look there are Rangers and Thieves roaming, and how I often see people below level 50 around the maps.

1 hour ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

The guy who I responded to literally gave his one dimensional take on the situation and it wasn't worth more than the response I gave him, and quite frankly I think you and everyone else who doesn't take my post seriously is on some serious Copium.

If we were constantly outnumbered and made those claims then you'd be right. But with currently TWO maps having queues you claiming WvW is dead/dying seems like the exact same "<insert something here> is killing WvW" theme that kept popping over and over again.

It's getting kittening boring how every other week a post like this pops up claiming WvW will die and somehow WvW still isn't dead. Played from T5 to T1 in EU and other than the first Restructuring beta I never had the feeling of WvW going to kitten.

[Xenesis.6389]

Bruhs, guilds need the boon ball crutch, so they don't get destroyed by the mag pug clouds, and their baddies can be good at something and not get one pushed like a pug and be safe from being benched. You need an equal boon ball to challenge them now... bring more Untamed to your pug raids next month, you rangers better appreciate the effort anet is doing to get you in zergs now. 🤭

 

Also I agree, nerf necro... corruption builds... and replace their corruption with strips, so they stop feeding conditions for purity of purpose. 🤔

[rrusse.7058]

7 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

A boon being always at full power even if the build is not boon / support aimed is more the problem atm. That and super speed not just being a low duration boon so it cant be striped is a real problem.

This right here is a better direction to take the conversation. I don't necessarily agree with the the sentiment at the moment but discussing the nature of certain boons, how they function or what can be done to create more engaging interactions and encounters for players is where we want to be.

Out of curiosity @Jski.6180, are you talking about hybrid builds when you say "builds not boon / support aimed"

[Jski.6180]

3 hours ago, rrusse.7058 said:

This right here is a better direction to take the conversation. I don't necessarily agree with the the sentiment at the moment but discussing the nature of certain boons, how they function or what can be done to create more engaging interactions and encounters for players is where we want to be.

Out of curiosity @Jski.6180, are you talking about hybrid builds when you say "builds not boon / support aimed"

There no means of balancing boons out side of just making a class have it or not. So you cant have a strong boon build you have a strong boon class.

[Justine.6351]

If they removed boons I think roaming would be a lot more interesting than just facetanking.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 1/24/2022 at 11:00 AM, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

recruit some non afking scourge and chronos... boonballing is just a sorry excuse lol

 

@Gobcrack.9320 there's no way theif and ranger get bigger usage in largescale ever.  whenever u fight rather overnumbers, these classes just don't pull their weight but rather need to get carried, as they live from fast clearing +1 fights. that is within their very mechanics, hence they are useless in largescale.

 

this will never change, unless anet destroys these classes basic skills and mechanics to reforge them into aoe/supportive specs. then u will cry that it doesn't feel like the wannabe rambo stuff that u are used to.

 

so, would u really take this pill?

 

just learn any of the meta specs, isn't asked too much.

 

  

no. how about we talk for nerfs of basic damage, shadowsteps, blinks, stealth, dazes, dodges, evades on thieves and rangers?

You just told the other guy that buffing thief & ranger is pointless unless it loses everything that makes them what they are, and now you're asking me to accept exactly that because you don't want to discuss how something you have may actually be OP. So no, when you're willing to discuss superspeed being OP, I'll be willing to discuss the other stuff. 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

8 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

If they removed boons I think roaming would be a lot more interesting than just facetanking.

what is that sentence even supposed to mean? you'd just die slower bc no might no fury but would be FAR more vulnerable to condi+cc as no stab, reso/resi

 

for my taste we got here again too many blind people talking about colors

 

boons are not an issue. zergs are not an issue.

 

don't play ranger theif or roamerbuilds and complain that a zerg beats u, what do u expect? that u solo 20 other players? classes all have pros and cons, and that is what group play does, it covers each classes cons, so their pros can be brought to shine.

 

humanity would have never made it past the  last 12000 years, if not cooperation was a thing. those guys who insisted on hunting down mammoths alone with a bow, because they hated groups, did probably not have success very often.

[Littlekenny.4196]

On 1/24/2022 at 11:00 AM, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@Gobcrack.9320 there's no way theif and ranger get bigger usage in largescale ever.  whenever u fight rather overnumbers, these classes just don't pull their weight but rather need to get carried, as they live from fast clearing +1 fights. that is within their very mechanics, hence they are useless in largescale.

 

this will never change, unless anet destroys these classes basic skills and mechanics to reforge them into aoe/supportive specs. then u will cry that it doesn't feel like the wannabe rambo stuff that u are used to.

I disagree, thief can be strong in large-scale. The problem is usually that the thief (if they actually get a party) doesn't give up solo survivability in exchange for damage so just do less than other classes or they play like a solo thief trying to pick off enemies out of position. Thief can be played with full zerker + 1 marauder and survive with the front line of a zerg while spiking harder per target than any other class.

[Swagger.1459]

@Gobcrack.9320

You're allowed to vent, but those are some far reaching conclusions and assumptions. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Swagger.1459

[Gobcrack.9320]

2 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

You're allowed to vent, but those are some far reaching conclusions and assumptions. 

 

I can only ever speak my truth, this is stuff i've seen and witnessed first hand as well as the same account told by others who have seen similar things.

 

I see people getting confused saying that nothing is dead and what i'm saying is wrong then go onto say they play EU.

 

I play NA, I assume all those likes and people agreeing with me that you see are also NA because this is our experience here.

 

I can't speak for EU, I can't go verify if that guy is telling the truth or not or just saying that i'm wrong because he's some kind of white knight.

 

Who knows right? I'm not going to assume anything and you shouldn't either.

 

This post wasn't a vent, no emotion was put into it except for straight hard facts. I have yet to see any criticism against what I said get as much positive traction, so it looks like you're in the minority of people if you can't see reality for what it is.

 

 

[Cuks.8241]

The funny thing is that if you remove or nerf the boons, the group meta would be even more narrow. Now the meta revolves about boon coverage and on the other hand strips and corrupts. On top of the base dmg and healing parts. 

So remove/nerf boons and you remove the spellbreakers, mesmers use some of their value allthough everyone would still love a few mesm. Necros would probably stay for their bombs and general utility. FB, Scrapper would stay. Revs would still remain the only real 1200 range spike.

Now this is assuming stability stays untouched. If you touch stability  everything would just become AOE CC CC CC CC CC CC. 

People actually underestimate clouds. Clouds are actually annoying to fight as balls. Cloud needs to be bigger though. You cant really push the cloud. The problem is that most clouds are mostly bad players. Random rangers pewpewing thinking they actually did smth because their lb5 did some dmg.

 

Besides everything in this game supports close balling. Boons and other aoe utility, target caps, the way healing works - aoe often centered on the caster. You want to reduce balling? Completely rework the whole combat system.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Cuks.8241

[Zikory.6871]

24 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

So remove/nerf boons and you remove the spellbreakers, mesmers use some of their value allthough everyone would still love a few mesm. Necros would probably stay for their bombs and general utility. FB, Scrapper would stay. Revs would still remain the only real 1200 range spike.

Flat removal is ridiculous so w/e but if they were to remove some boons or the amount/uptime of boons. Classes that strip boons value goes way up. You wouldn't drop Spellbreakers or Chronos but you could run less of them to get the same outcome as pre nerf. Frankly, I'd probably stay the same or run more strips and spam CC. Don't need a lot of damage if no one can move...

[Swagger.1459]

6 hours ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

 

I can only ever speak my truth, this is stuff i've seen and witnessed first hand as well as the same account told by others who have seen similar things.

 

I see people getting confused saying that nothing is dead and what i'm saying is wrong then go onto say they play EU.

 

I play NA, I assume all those likes and people agreeing with me that you see are also NA because this is our experience here.

 

I can't speak for EU, I can't go verify if that guy is telling the truth or not or just saying that i'm wrong because he's some kind of white knight.

 

Who knows right? I'm not going to assume anything and you shouldn't either.

 

This post wasn't a vent, no emotion was put into it except for straight hard facts. I have yet to see any criticism against what I said get as much positive traction, so it looks like you're in the minority of people if you can't see reality for what it is.

 

 

Your “facts” are nothing but assumptions. We get it, you don’t like Support skills, so you spin doctor it into “something something something the mode is dying because of Boons”…Is this your first mmo? Don’t understand the relevance and importance of Support skills? 
 

WvW has been neglected since this game started, that’s why it’s not in a healthier state. Nothing to do with “boon”. And even so, the devs clarified that “wvw isn’t dying” by their participation numbers. 
 

I don’t really need to provide any “criticism” either to prove you wrong, you have done that all on your own. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

On 1/23/2022 at 1:21 AM, Gobcrack.9320 said:

EoD also hasn't announced anything major changing for PvP in the game

If people didnt get the picture years ago, they should get it by now. There hasnt been, and probably will never be any more development for pvp and wvw.

[Gobcrack.9320]

1 hour ago, Swagger.1459 said:

And even so, the devs clarified that “wvw isn’t dying” by their participation numbers. 
 

 

New World Devs also "clarified" that they banned 80% of dupers and cheaters and since that statement more than 6 new dupes popped up, two of which went viral on Reddit so everyone got in on it and no one got banned.

 

The same way I don't trust AGS, I don't trust ArenaNet. 

 

I don't care for their corporate metrics for this game, as far as most gamers are concerned they use view counts on Twitch and YouTube to see the hype for a game or the community behind it and GW2 has been dead for the better part of a decade on every social media platform.

 

You even admitted in one sentence that ArenaNet abandoned WvW to then go on to say that you trust ArenaNet's statements so which is it? Do you not like what I said about the braindead Boon Ball meta because you see yourself in it so you discredit it, or do you genuinely believe the same company that abandoned your game mode also isn't willing to lie about the abandoned game mode?

 

Idk, i'll let you figure that one out.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Gobcrack.9320

[Swagger.1459]

3 minutes ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

 

New World Devs also "clarified" that they banned 80% of dupers and cheaters and since that statement more than 6 new dupes popped up, two of which went viral on Reddit so everyone got in on it and no one got banned.

 

The same way I don't trust AGS, I don't trust ArenaNet. 

 

I don't care for their corporate metrics for this game, as far as most gamers are concerned they use view counts on Twitch and YouTube to see the hype for a game or the community behind it and GW2 has been dead for the better part of a decade on every social media platform.

 

You even admitted in one sentence that ArenaNet abandoned WvW to then go on to say that you trust ArenaNet's statements so which is it? Do you not like what I said about the braindead Boon Ball meta because you see yourself in it so you discredit it, or do you genuinely believe the same company that abandoned your game mode also isn't willing to lie about the abandoned game mode?

 

Idk, i'll let you figure that one out.

 

 

 

 

You’re not understanding plain English. I think you should reread what I wrote and figure it out. 

 

 

[Gobcrack.9320]

1 hour ago, Swagger.1459 said:

I think you should reread what I wrote and figure it out. 

 

I'll pass on that, ty though 🙂

 

 

[oscuro.9720]

On 1/22/2022 at 10:21 PM, Gobcrack.9320 said:

Roaming dead ✔️

Thief/Ranger mains on suicide watch due to never being chosen✔️

Lack of new players and low player participation ✔️

Stale & Boring Boon Ball Zerg Meta ✔️

 

Let's face it, WvW is not in a good state. 

Alliances looking rough, powerful guilds finding ways to take advantage of systems to remain powerful which everyone saw coming.

 

EoD also hasn't announced anything major changing for PvP in the game, just a lot of PvE as always and the one thing that remains consistent over the past couple years that led to WvW deteriorating to where it's at is Boons.

 

The concept of Boons needs to be reworked because it is inevitable that large zergs will naturally take advantage of it, but Boons need some sort of drawbacks or nerfs or even just straight removal in WvW situations in order to switch up the meta and make people actually think of strategies instead of mindlessly Boon Balling 24/7.

 

Here are things I think ANet should do:

 

1. Shorten Boon Durations in WvW gameplay
2. Remove problematic Boons that are being abused
3. Nerf Boon-Strip builds to compensate for Boon nerfs to freshen Necro meta

 

Too many WvW players are accustomed to mindless, boring, Boon Ball gameplay and it's clearly not fun despite what the white knights say because GW2 has no PvP scene. Being #1 in GW2 WvW is equivalent to being a dead Streamer/YouTuber because literally no one is looking out for GW2 content in 2022.

 

If people want to be taken seriously as a community and not have PvP be some mini-game, stop defending boring mind numbing gameplay.

 

NO MORE BOON BALL.

 

 

 

I agree with you criticisms. However, I’m not convinced your proposed changes would do that much to kill boonball. We already saw a massive drawdown of boom duration in the 2020 patch, and boon ball only intensified (granted, in association with reduced damage). 
I think identifying specifically problematic classes/traits that are allowing a diverse, constant boon uptime would be a better approach than blanket alterations to the boons themselves. That tends to have negative consequences for classes that are not problematic but rely on the nerfed mechanic while also leaving some classes still problematic because it doesn’t address the real disfunction. I would generally prefer a more specific and localized solution (altering problematic traits rather than blanket boon nerfs). 
Alternatively, draw downs on the scale of  conversion for concentration may be helpful. Just my opinions, honestly it’s a tricky issue since boons are just one of the issues with the combat at the moment, and not necessarily the underlying problem imo. 

[reddie.5861]

tbh its the way the game is.

i mean i dont understand why stabillity is ingame to start off with but hey thats how they made the game.
like woohooo let me use a mass stun, every1 is immune the joy.. cus of stability CC a charging Blob is kinda senseless
 

but thats how the game was created so we deal with it right?

[subversiontwo.7501]

1 hour ago, reddie.5861 said:

i mean i dont understand why stabillity is ingame to start off with

Isn't it obvious why it exists? Most systems are created with plays and counterplays. Even if we complicate the matter a bit and try to understand the duality of stability and stunbreaks, it is still rather easy to understand why stability exists (as a boon). There are technical difficulties (client-server communication, spam, lag) sorting out queued commands of stuns and breaks, especially as content scales up and things get more messy. That's why there are a number of different tools to mediate and balance the gameplay.

Breaks alone is not a reliable enough mechanic to ensure it does what it is supposed to do under all conditions and the gameplay can't afford things like that failing. It also affords the developers to have more stuns (et. al.) than there are breaks and it affords them to have more group stuns than than there are group breaks. Stuns function as a mechanic well enough whether it is single- or multi target and whether content scales up or not. Breaks tend to be more personal and stability more group oriented.

That sort of brings us to this thread because this thread like most threads that complain or try to find problems in the balance of these things just seems to be inexperienced players complaining about their own inexperience without any support in- or understanding of the actual balance of these things. If you go and talk to experienced players at larger scale for example, I think that you'll find that most of them consider the balance between movement and control to be relatively decent now. The OP's concern does not come from the actual balance of movement versus control.

The OP's concern comes from being a solo player trying to fight more players who additionally are organised in their groups (and likely more experienced than him ontop of that). There is no way that upsetting the movement versus control balance is going to help the OP with his perceived problem and he is only throwing out these oppinions because he can not perceive the results of them. If we assume that we just let control run rampant in this game then the more, better organised and more experienced players would just leverage their control advantage more and then the OP would be back here complaining about never getting to push buttons or even more concerning: The OP may play something that isn't very susceptible to control to begin with so all of this comes from a perspective of not understanding his own advantages and the inherent balance issues in them; ie., let's nerf stability so it is much easier to stun people, as I am an SA-DE who tend not to get stunned in the first place 🥴.

When we had the pirateship metas, where the movement versus control balance was worse and favoured control, we never had a change in the dominant, experienced guilds being dominant, the main difference (as per recent topics) mainly lay in the classes (melee versus range) and the relationship between leaders and followers in public groups. It favoured the followers over the leaders and choked content out of the mode and game as more and more followers just stood around looking for people to lead them.

As a result, the OP isn't really concerned with balances, he is concerned with gaining advantages through imbalances shrouded by simply not being experienced enough to see the actual balance of things or a rose-tinted idea of results. I'd be happy to talk or explore changes to these things if the people reporting them could produce any credible arguments but much like other recent topics that appear on these forums so much of this is just marred in the "them guilds", "those hardcore elitists", "the meta slaves", "OP necros", grr grr. Those are not valid concerns and it is so easy to point out the invalidity of them.The mere mention of lacking counterplay to boons, dominance of Necros or no role for Warriors in stale meta is immidiately defeated by the Spellbreaker holding a meta role based around counterplaying boons. So, these people clearly just do not understand, concern themselves with the actual state or balance of things and just want to fence windmills all day, every day.

Edited January 26, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 hours ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

 

New World Devs also "clarified" that they banned 80% of dupers and cheaters and since that statement more than 6 new dupes popped up, two of which went viral on Reddit so everyone got in on it and no one got banned.

You make this argument irrelevant with the "since that statement" part. They ban 80% of dupers and cheaters and 6 new dupes popped up, it's right there, new. If it took them this time to ban the existing ones then they'll probably get rid of a bunch of the new ones, or don't, there is barely any hope for that game.

9 hours ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

I don't care for their corporate metrics for this game, as far as most gamers are concerned they use view counts on Twitch and YouTube to see the hype for a game or the community behind it and GW2 has been dead for the better part of a decade on every social media platform.

There's a good reason why deciding if a game is dead or not based on Twitch/YT presence is irrelevant. If those would be a way to measure popularity WoW would have ~45 times more players at all times, right?  Or Super People would be double of GW2 while sitting at 10k at the moment based on Twitch viewers.

9 hours ago, Gobcrack.9320 said:

You even admitted in one sentence that ArenaNet abandoned WvW to then go on to say that you trust ArenaNet's statements so which is it? Do you not like what I said about the braindead Boon Ball meta because you see yourself in it so you discredit it, or do you genuinely believe the same company that abandoned your game mode also isn't willing to lie about the abandoned game mode?

Just because they abandon development it doesn't mean they don't have stats about the gamemode. If you don't believe Anet's stats then ask people who say the direct opposite of your statement.