Rip rene

[Scoobaniec.9561]

 

[Catchyfx.5768]

Hope there will remain atleast one build for pve, cuz i dont believe in vindi in pve

[Telgum.6071]

People said the same when Miralac appeared. 

[Fueki.4753]

I hope they'll just adjust its support capabilities.

I'd hate for Renegade to get crippled in its PvE DPS.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I hope they'll just adjust its support capabilities.

I'd hate for Renegade to get crippled in its PvE DPS.

Dont think they will criple ren that much for PVE, i dont even think that was direct PVE content and the stronger changes will be noticeable  outside pve wich is where 6 classes loose in everything against HoT PoF and even some core builds, my prevision is anything that is power based EoD spec will only work in pve.

Why nerf  power/condi /upport roles specs towards EoD specs in pve?

Edited February 16, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Why nerf  power/condi /upport roles specs towards EoD specs in pve?

One very shallow reason could be to try to make the underwhelming new elite specializations look more appealing to try to attract more sales. Another reason could also be an arbitrary and forced shake-up of the high end meta.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

IF they cripple or heavily nerf cRen's condi dps i'll be pissed, especially since Rev has NO other viable condi dps option, but a nerf to RR to be 5 targets is understandable and in-line with them reverting everything back to 5 targets

[Scoobaniec.9561]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

One very shallow reason could be to try to make the underwhelming new elite specializations look more appealing to try to attract more sales. Another reason could also be an arbitrary and forced shake-up of the high end meta.

Thats what the post literally says

"to tamp them down a little, and help give new specs some breathing room"

Nerf stuff so much that kitten new spec start becoming appealing to pick up instead.

Rene literally become meta in pvp all cuz it was untouched while everything else got nerfed

[Infusion.7149]

"Tamp then down a little" probably means 30-33K RR and 35-37K full cDPS (back to before torment changes), net nerf ~10 to 15% expected.

The only other standout on condi ren is ultimately the Darkrazor CC and that is better addressed by increasing launch CC from 232 and 332 to 250 and 350 honestly. People constantly confuse condi RR with power alac boon output, you can't put out prot effectively on condi RR without giving up bleeding damage although might could also be reduced from Heroic Command.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Heika.5403]

5 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Thats what the post literally says

"to tamp them down a little, and help give new specs some breathing room"

Nerf stuff so much that kitten new spec start becoming appealing to pick up instead.

Rene literally become meta in pvp all cuz it was untouched while everything else got nerfed

Well, a "little" and "Anerf" often doesn't match much a lot.  Hopefully, knowing that the alleged "big" balance patch will come in summer, with luck, the big hammer nerf and/or mechanic changes will be delayed until summer.  

Another thing will be if the expansion's changes will kick Renegade from meta or not. It smells that again they are pushing the new specializations to sell them at all cost. So players will take the bait, play the new OP ones until summer and then do whatever big wave of nerf and changes they want to who knows what end.

So, potentially, we could end changing what we play and builds twice times in our professions now and after the summer balance patch is released because they ran out of time to make the big changes now... Coincidentally in favor of the new specializations that did receive them/will be released updated...  😉 What a coincidence! 🤑🤣

[Scoobaniec.9561]

4 minutes ago, Heika.5403 said:

Well, a "little" and "Anerf" often doesn't match much a lot.  Hopefully, knowing that the alleged "big" balance patch will come in summer, with luck, the big hammer nerf and/or mechanic changes will be delayed until summer.  

Another thing will be if the expansion's changes will kick Renegade from meta or not. It smells that again they are pushing the new specializations to sell them at all cost. So players will take the bait, play the new OP ones until summer and then do whatever big wave of nerf and changes they want to who knows what end.

So, potentially, we could end changing what we play and builds twice times in our professions now and after the summer balance patch is released because they ran out of time to make the big changes now... Coincidentally in favor of the new specializations that did receive them/will be released updated...  😉 What a coincidence! 🤑🤣

I remember staff 5 nerf, it went like this. Just a small nerfs boyos, patch notes came - damage reduced by 50% 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Its the same circle really. Nerf everything+make new specs broken for few months then once the dust settle nerf them as well. What is build diversity, what about elite specs being roles u specialize in? Whole concept is elite spec is powercreep and has little to do with specializing imo

[Virdo.1540]

i assume they will just turn down the damage of an alac rene ,without nerfing the pure damage build.

I think its coupled with the new support-condi stat. With that, renegade (and firebrand) would be as support insanely strong. So it will imo only touch those specific support builds ,which brings it on line with other offensive support builds.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Virdo.1540

[Buran.3796]

  I think that the changes would only affect to instanced PvE, which anyway is as niches as WvW/PvP  (that's why they have been jumping from dungeons to fractals, to raids and to strike missions along this 9.5 years) and not OW PvE which is what most of the population does (and oftenly entirely alone).

   Alacrigade is only meta in 10 player content, since running boon duration to shave the cooldowns of the skills has a limited use for a Revenant which is capped by the energy cost of the skills compared to just buffing your ofensive stats to deal more damage while relying in alacrity.

[Infusion.7149]

Buran, have you played with alac mirage in fractals? Alacrity ren is meta in fractals due to CC , it's not just meta in raids/strikes. You can do without prot by using condi alac ren but the CC from alacrity ren exceeds what you can get on a short cooldown running mirage. That doesn't even account for the fact that confusion doesn't tick on exposed breakbars.

The only perceivable alternative is alacrity mechanist because you can run alac heal mechanist with barriers and then instead of HB you can use quickness harbinger or firebrand. Full heal mechanist is severely lacking CC however which presents the same problem as mirage. Specter could work too but requires more stacking , pistol offhand provides CC although requires multiple hits ; Basilisk Venom has a longer cooldown than Darkrazor.

I'd probably try something like this on mechanist for a hybrid condi alac support, not sure how well it will work compared to full heal mechanist:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAk6lxy0YdMXWMOAL5RVA-zRJYoRDfZkQCESBI8s4+0G-e

Running seraph means you only have 80% bleeding duration even with Nightmare rune and sigil of malice down from 100% burn/bleed durations on full viper + renegade rune.

[Puck.3697]

10 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Why nerf  power/condi /upport roles specs towards EoD specs in pve

 

8 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

One very shallow reason could be to try to make the underwhelming new elite specializations look more appealing to try to attract more sales. Another reason could also be an arbitrary and forced shake-up of the high end meta

Neither. 

The primary issue in guild wars 2 PvE is the sheer power creep currently surrounding the proffessions. 

They need to reverse the power creep, something renegade scourge and firebrand are top offenders of, it's nothing to do with making them weaker or worse then EoD elites. 

The reason you think the new elites are "underwhelming" is primarily because of how power crept the game is compared to what it should be. 

EoD is likely the new balancing line, that's not underwhelming providing everything falls in line with them. It'd actually be a large improvement to the game in all modes. 

Power creep has damaged the game ALOT and if they intend to actually learn and improve on past mistakes things need to go backwards. 

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

assume they will just turn down the damage of an alac rene ,without nerfing the pure damage build.

I think its coupled with the new support-condi stat. With that, renegade (and firebrand) would be as support insanely strong. So it will imo only touch those specific support builds ,which brings it on line with other offensive support builds

Hmm unsure. 

Given how high pure DPS ren is I'd expect nerfs. If we noticed a pattern on betas any proffession doing 40k upwards got nerfed down to 36-38k. 

It would be apparent they are dropping power creep, so the idea is to reverse things as they've gone too far. 

Renegades pure DPS build is the strongest DPS in the game as of current, so I wouldn't expect to retain that given the fact the new elites seem to be targetted to be 36-37k odd DPS it's likely they will try to bring down all existing speccs down to those sorta numbers.  

[Virdo.1540]

2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Hmm unsure. 

Given how high pure DPS ren is I'd expect nerfs. If we noticed a pattern on betas any proffession doing 40k upwards got nerfed down to 36-38k. 

It would be apparent they are dropping power creep, so the idea is to reverse things as they've gone too far. 

Renegades pure DPS build is the strongest DPS in the game as of current, so I wouldn't expect to retain that given the fact the new elites seem to be targetted to be 36-37k odd DPS it's likely they will try to bring down all existing speccs down to those sorta numbers.  

But you still have to consider  renegades dps is only on a golem that high. In reality, where bosses usually move a bit, the damage drops quite a bit due to the stupid torment nerf. Rene is only able to reach an very high damage if the perfect circumstances are given.

 

But i sure can see some kind of battle scar nerf to rene. the sustain is ridiculous. Maybe they drop icerazors vuln from 2 to 1 per hit. (which would still be very good)

[Jobber.6348]

Usually when they say they will balance Especs, what they really mean is they will utterly dismantle core traits 🙂 

I can't wait to play my Core Rev during EoD era! I'm so excited to play -10 drain Shiro, Battlescars doing 100 damage in PvE and Charged Mists restoring 5 Energy when swapping below 10% Energy!

Edited February 17, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Za Shaloc.3908]

10 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Usually when they say they will balance Especs, what they really mean is they will utterly dismantle core traits 🙂 

I can't wait to play my Core Rev during EoD era! I'm so excited to play -10 drain Shiro, Battlescars doing 100 damage in PvE and Charged Mists restoring 5 Energy when swapping below 10% Energy!

 

You aren't wrong, but I hope to god you aren't right. 😧 

[Aeolus.3615]

16 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

One very shallow reason could be to try to make the underwhelming new elite specializations look more appealing to try to attract more sales. Another reason could also be an arbitrary and forced shake-up of the high end meta.

Wich will be misleading cause every non condi EoD spec melts  to most  HoT and PoF specs and even some core builds...

Put me a reaper or a scourge fighthing all EoD specs :) and see who wins

Edited February 17, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Puck.3697]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:54 AM, Aeolus.3615 said:

Wich will be misleading cause every non condi EoD spec melts  to most  HoT and PoF specs and even some core builds...

Put me a reaper or a scourge fighthing all EoD specs 🙂 and see who wins

This is the best bit though. 

People screech the EoD speccs are not as powerful as HoTs and PoFs. 

Then somehow completely forget this when talking about nerfs to current speccs. 

Theres 2 options. 

Bring EoD speccs uptoo par with HoTs and PoFs. 

Bring HoT and PoF elites down to EoDs. 

Either choice is a neutral one as they both do the same thing... Bringing them down to EoD speccs is the healthiest choice game wise as the power creep from HoT and PoFs took a major **** on the games health in all modes realistically. 

EoDs speccs are far more in line with core speccs, and because of that don't require major core nerfing to adjust to because they're already on the bar with them. PoFs and HoTs speccs have caused dramatic power loss to core speccs continously to keep in check. 

If you want core balancing. The elites need to be EoD level. The problem is the existing elites need to be reworked themselves to make this power loss so they themselves can be brought down to core /EoD levels. 

[Obtena.7952]

Thread is sensational at best. There will be no easier Alacrity application than just pressing a button every 20 seconds. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 2/16/2022 at 8:33 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

I hope they'll just adjust its support capabilities.

I'd hate for Renegade to get crippled in its PvE DPS.

They overbuffed them with the torment change in PvE, so it would be appropriate to shave it a bit.

[Infusion.7149]

26 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

They overbuffed them with the torment change in PvE, so it would be appropriate to shave it a bit.

It was 33K as RR and 37K cDPS full cDPS before torment changes.
That's ~10% less than currently where you can push 28K+ as cele ren (30k+ with allies), 37K as RR (~40K with allies), 40K+ (43K+ with allies) as cDPS. Realistically even a 15% nerf could take place as having 12s cooldown 600CC is quite strong on TL/SH/Matthias as well as every fractal after exposed change.
Right now you can get 33K DPS just swapping legends and using shortbow, solo.