DO NOT nerf Dragon's End meta.

[Teratus.2859]

44 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

I don't think it killed raids at all. I raid every week and as long as you can show KP and do the mechanics in raids it's fine. We all want to succeed but if one person can't do the mechanics then of course the com will kick them out of the raids.

Erise summed up pretty well a lot of what I meant in my last post.

Adding to it though those kinds of "restrictions" are a lot of what I mean by unnecessary.
Back in the other posts I was replying to they were talking about people being asked/told to leave the map etc

That sort of thing is not ok, and it's a symptom of some people already treating this particular meta as a "DPS problem" when it absolutely is not a DPS problem.

I've read a lot of posts in this thread and there are definitely some legitimate complaints about this meta among the many comments just calling for nerfs and removing mechanics, neither of which are warranted or necessary.

Complaints I personally agree with are as follows.

1. Too much waiting around downtime between meta's.. this does need to be cut down pretty drastically imo.

2. The Green Circles phase of the fight is far too easy to troll and needs some tweaking to counter that.
I personally think there should be a minimum player success cap on this phase to remove the ability for trolls to screw this up and stall out the timer.
I absolutely disagree with people calling for this phase to be "removed" though just because they don't like it.

Also I am also completely against trying to cheese and ignore this phase as well, people should be doing it and they should be penalised for trying to skip or cheese it.
It's an important part of the fight that provides a necessary DPS buff as well as immunity from an arena wipe attack so it absolutely needs to be learned and done in every encounter by as many players as possible.
That's how this fight it mechanically intended to be played out and attempting to cheese it's mechanics is something this expansion was specifically designed to punish.

I am half and half when it comes to the turtle being locked behind this event though.
I don't think it's particularly a bad thing for the turtle to be locked behind a meta event.
That said I do understand why people are fed up and angry about it, specially when this is just to unlock the collection which still has you running around and doing other stuff.

I think a more than fair compromise for this would be to just allow the collection to unlock even on a fail, much like the True Ending Achievement also does, even though it states you must defeat Soo-Won to get it.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Teratus.2859

[difens.1326]

13 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

(...)

What I do not want Anet to do is nerf the meta so that the meta succeeds just by using auto-attack chains, a little bit of moving to the left or right, and then that's it. That's not proper end-game content (at least for me). Another thing (and this is my own opinion and very subjective) is that nerfing a meta is kind of insulting as well; it's like saying that people aren't capable of having the brains to make themselves better and learning from their mistakes and failures. I don't believe that and I certainly do not think that that is reflective of the GW2 players.

Open world map metas are not end-game content...

[Melech.4308]

9 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Erise summed up pretty well a lot of what I meant in my last post.

Adding to it though those kinds of "restrictions" are a lot of what I mean by unnecessary.
Back in the other posts I was replying to they were talking about people being asked/told to leave the map etc

That sort of thing is not ok, and it's a symptom of some people already treating this particular meta as a "DPS problem" when it absolutely is not a DPS problem.

I've read a lot of posts in this thread and there are definitely some legitimate complaints about this meta among the many comments just calling for nerfs and removing mechanics, neither of which are warranted or necessary.

Complaints I personally agree with are as follows.

1. Too much waiting around downtime between meta's.. this does need to be cut down pretty drastically imo.

2. The Green Circles phase of the fight is far too easy to troll and needs some tweaking to counter that.
I personally think there should be a minimum player success cap on this phase to remove the ability for trolls to screw this up and stall out the timer.
I absolutely disagree with people calling for this phase to be "removed" though just because they don't like it.

Also I am also completely against trying to cheese and ignore this phase as well, people should be doing it and they should be penalised for trying to skip or cheese it.
It's an important part of the fight that provides a necessary DPS buff as well as immunity from an arena wipe attack so it absolutely needs to be learned and done in every encounter by as many players as possible.
That's how this fight it mechanically intended to be played out and attempting to cheese it's mechanics is something this expansion was specifically designed to punish.

I am half and half when it comes to the turtle being locked behind this event though.
I don't think it's particularly a bad thing for the turtle to be locked behind a meta event.
That said I do understand why people are fed up and angry about it, specially when this is just to unlock the collection which still has you running around and doing other stuff.

I think a more than fair compromise for this would be to just allow the collection to unlock even on a fail, much like the True Ending Achievement also does, even though it states you must defeat Soo-Won to get it.

I agree with your two complaints, especially number one. Something has to happen when the regions have already reached "high". For the second one, didn't they already fix this in an earlier patch so you can't really troll the greens anymore?

[Melech.4308]

4 minutes ago, difens.1326 said:

Open world map metas are not end-game content...

Yes, I know, it's Fashion Wars 2. Skins are the real end-game content.

[difens.1326]

2 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

Yes, I know, it's Fashion Wars 2. Skins are the real end-game content.

Exactly

[Erise.5614]

41 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

That's true, I have been doing raids for a long time. I already have all 3 legendary armor sets from raids and I still raid weekly. Why? because it's fun for me. Regarding the training groups, at least in my case when I was starting out (The Crossroads Inn trained me), they only require that you have proper gear with the correct stats, They understand you're new, so they train you with the mechanics of raid bosses. Raids were never meant to be beginner friendly.

Either that has changed, you really need to commit to a static training group or something else is off. Because that's not at all been my experience. 

 

41 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

 However, beginner players who don't know the basic mechanics and signs (red aoe = avoid or dodge/evade, green aoe = go there, etc) are not contributing as well.

To be fair. The meta runs terribly. I can usually play at 50-60fps (like, in non meta open world). And sometimes drop below 20fps during DE even with everything turned down.

Enabling effect LODs (which has a huge performance impact in metas like this, easily 5-10 fps) makes some boss indicators and attacks not appear. You'll sometimes read a "what killed me?". That's mechanics not showing up right. So the "just dodge" is not a good argument here either. 

And my PC is pretty good. Not raytracing this gen stuff but considering current hardware prices it would run you somewhere around 1.5k-2k bought new. I don't wanna imagine the experience that people with average computers have. 

41 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

Again, this is not about gear, but about doing mechanics.

What I do not want Anet to do is nerf the meta so that the meta succeeds just by using auto-attack chains, a little bit of moving to the left or right, and then that's it.

Frankly, I don't understand why ANet forces timers so much. The meta as is would be absolutely amazing without timer! Yes, some groups would take 40 minutes but who cares!? The difference between spending 2:00h and 2:20h is miniscule. I'd even support actually failing mechanics and having to redo a phase. I'm not opposed to mechanics. I'm opposed to auto failing a 2 hour time commitment. DPS checks and fast coordination are hardcore mechanics. Keep them out of open world, increase mechanics complexity and I'm not just happy but happier than before! 

 

41 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

Another thing (and this is my own opinion and very subjective) is that nerfing a meta is kind of insulting as well; it's like saying that people aren't capable of having the brains to make themselves better and learning from their mistakes and failures. I don't believe that and I certainly do not think that that is reflective of the GW2 players.

You're the one insulting people here for suggesting it just takes intelligence to beat the boss. Nothing could be further from the truth. Basically every player has the intelligence to beat the meta. Heck, they all have the intelligence to beat any raid CM.

The thing they are lacking is hardcore training. GW2 doesn't even provide any information about how you're doing. DPS, Boons, Healing. You get absolutely no feedback from the game whether you're any good, if you're improving or what's going on. So deliberately progressing here is already a pretty darn high barrier.

It's all about how much you need to think and look until you executed what you wanted to do.

Just as hypothetical example. I'm a scourge. I'll just spam my weapon skills. Constantly looking back at them because I have no intuitive feeling of how long they need. Deliberate care with my F4 + blood letting so I don't take damage from bleeding. Generally don't have much heal at all so need to constantly focus on incoming damage to barrier beforehand, position myself right so my AoEs affect the target, watch the ground for having to dodge an instakill, keep an eye on the chat, keep an eye on the quest bar (for simultaneous kills), need to anticipate certain attacks (because dodging doesn't work on that attack and you can't walk out of it from everywhere). So remember the phases and order to do things. Select the right targets so I even see a defiance bar when it comes up. At which point I need to change up my thinking and remember which ones deal defiance damage instead (shame on me if I didn't hold them back for this purpose)

If I actually have to think and consciously look at all these things it's excessive. It's genuinely overwhelming. An average person can keep track of about 7 things at once. Just memorizing / not forgetting to do it. Not even taking action. Just skill cooldowns will occupy all mental capacity of an inexperienced player. 

Only through deliberate training can these move into muscle memory to the point where you can focus primarily on damage indicators and event mechanics. 

 

And all of that is fine. Pushing people towards that can be a good and valid goal. But then it really need kitten gloves. Make these people slow down the event. Not auto fail it. Show them all mechanics ahead of time. In context and same amount. It's not good enough to have had the mechanic elsewhere in the game at some point in a completely different environment. It's not good enough to have a story instance that doesn't cover half the mechanics. 

Give people a judgement free space to fail, see and learn. With consistent design language and consistent mechanics. And things improve. 

The current narrative of "brainless idiots", "just getting better", "harder content please" and so on is utter kitty litter. The fault is exclusively and 100% with ANet. Who shape spaces for elitists, don't teach appropriately and then just throw people into deeper and deeper ends. EOD is, unfortunately, more of that. And not the smoother ramp upwards that has been so desperately needed basically from day 1.

So as result, they can't expect people to contribute seriously and must dumb down metas until they are brain afk. Which is a solution and I'm even fine with that.

But if people like you want more advanced content, you should absolutely care much more about how the game communicates to it's casual audience. What is a success, what is a fail and is the experience and the progression fun? 

This ain't that. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Teratus.2859]

16 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

I agree with your two complaints, especially number one. Something has to happen when the regions have already reached "high". For the second one, didn't they already fix this in an earlier patch so you can't really troll the greens anymore?

Not that I am aware.. considering people are still complaining about trolls killing runs though I would think not sadly 😞

Hopefully they do fix it soon, preferably without nerfing the event though, I don't believe they need to go that far.
Given time to learn properly, familiarise with the content and after a couple of necessary tweaks here and there to fix the troll and cheesing problems I am confident that most people will be running this meta regularly without any trouble at all.

[Winola.8214]

So I can report back that I finally beat the meta with a raid squad (with KP requirement). We did the green phases as intended rather than skipping and finished with a minute still on the clock. Feels like winning the lottery in some ways. 

However, there are now also people holding maps hostage. We had a griefer squad in our map trying to get people in not participating in the meta for the express purpose of taking slots from our squad making the attempt. They then proceeded to continuously spam map chat so that anyone outside the squad couldn't read instructions in map. Really sad to see people behave like this - but even worse that this meta is bringing about such behaviour. Squads shouldn't have to ask people to leave in the first place, and I get players protesting that. 

I just wished Arena would at least say something so that people who haven't won the lottery yet don't loose hope. The frustration expressed by players in that map is unreal. 

[kharny.3284]

3 minutes ago, Winola.8214 said:

So I can report back that I finally beat the meta with a raid squad (with KP requirement). We did the green phases as intended rather than skipping and finished with a minute still on the clock. Feels like winning the lottery in some ways. 

However, there are now also people holding maps hostage. We had a griefer squad in our map trying to get people in not participating in the meta for the express purpose of taking slots from our squad making the attempt. They then proceeded to continuously spam map chat so that anyone outside the squad couldn't read instructions in map. Really sad to see people behave like this - but even worse that this meta is bringing about such behaviour. Squads shouldn't have to ask people to leave in the first place, and I get players protesting that. 

I just wished Arena would at least say something so that people who haven't won the lottery yet don't loose hope. The frustration expressed by players in that map is unreal. 

 

Trolling is never good, but it's rather sad that an open world event requires an organised raid setup to have a chance of succeeding...

[difens.1326]

And all this for stupid turtle egg that you can't even fully utilize on your own 😄

[Sevens.9452]

average playtime for someone is 15hrs per week, you really expect them to stick around for this after the first couple of tries?

 

i took time off work and now plays like 10 hrs a day, and i cant even be bothered past my 3rd try.

 

[DragonMoon.6098]

1 hour ago, kharny.3284 said:

 

Trolling is never good, but it's rather sad that an open world event requires an organised raid setup to have a chance of succeeding...

Yes, so even someone like me who loves doing map meta events and helping people with bounty trains and hp trains, is excellent at taking direction, has all ascended trinkets including the Return Champ legendary amulet, mostly all ascended armor, and just got their first legendary weapon (Chuka & Champawat...w00t)...and uses a meta build...I wouldn't be able to play in that sand box simply because I have no raid experience???? That's...that's a level of gatekeeping that I will not stand by. If ANet continues to embrace that behavior towards players who don't raid (i.e. casual players) I will go to another game. There are plenty out there. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by DragonMoon.6098

[kharmin.7683]

Open World meta events shouldn't require ascended gear.  Fractals, sure, as that is where it is really needed.  But not OW.

[yourexcellency.1458]

I just want my turtle. Once I have it I will never look at this map again.

[artar.2759]

2 minutes ago, yourexcellency.1458 said:

I just want my turtle. Once I have it I will never look at this map again.

And that is the real problem with this meta.  Meta this hard is not going to have people do it for funsies.  At least not most people.  Some, sure.  But it will get harder and harder to get a completion on this cause more and more people got what they needed and are noping out of it.

 

Makes it feels like, do it now or wait X months until it's nerfed to the ground to have a shot at it.  Ugh.

[kharny.3284]

considering this meta is on a significant time on one of only 4 new maps....it really should be a lot more rewarding/succesful for random groups of people that are on the map at that time.

[Caitybee.3614]

2 hours ago, Winola.8214 said:

So I can report back that I finally beat the meta with a raid squad (with KP requirement). We did the green phases as intended rather than skipping and finished with a minute still on the clock. Feels like winning the lottery in some ways. 

However, there are now also people holding maps hostage. We had a griefer squad in our map trying to get people in not participating in the meta for the express purpose of taking slots from our squad making the attempt. They then proceeded to continuously spam map chat so that anyone outside the squad couldn't read instructions in map. Really sad to see people behave like this - but even worse that this meta is bringing about such behaviour. Squads shouldn't have to ask people to leave in the first place, and I get players protesting that. 

I just wished Arena would at least say something so that people who haven't won the lottery yet don't loose hope. The frustration expressed by players in that map is unreal. 

The funny part is Anet wanted more player interaction with this turtle mount yet obtaining the egg is doing the opposite. 

[Melech.4308]

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

Either that has changed, you really need to commit to a static training group or something else is off. Because that's not at all been my experience. 

 

Why not try it yourself? They have the info here in the forums: [Raid][EU] Crossroads Inn Raid Training guild/discord server is looking for Commanders - Looking For Guild - Guild Wars 2 Forums. It's free training. All you have to do is sign up and attend it.

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

Frankly, I don't understand why ANet forces timers so much. The meta as is would be absolutely amazing without timer! Yes, some groups would take 40 minutes but who cares!? The difference between spending 2:00h and 2:20h is miniscule. 

Because an event without timers until the event succeeds is going to be very problematic. What happens if a map has little to no people and a meta event is running and they are not interested in it? The meta goes on indefinitely until some people actually show up to beat it. It doesn't matter if it's minutes, days, weeks, or months. Meanwhile, all of the areas and other events are locked out because of the ongoing meta event. Again, this lockout of other events can take minutes, days, weeks, or months until someone actually restarts the server or people show up to beat the meta.

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

To be fair. The meta runs terribly. I can usually play at 50-60fps (like, in non meta open world). And sometimes drop below 20fps during DE even with everything turned down.

Enabling effect LODs (which has a huge performance impact in metas like this, easily 5-10 fps) makes some boss indicators and attacks not appear. You'll sometimes read a "what killed me?". That's mechanics not showing up right. So the "just dodge" is not a good argument here either. 

This isn't a problem Anet can solve. That's why they put out minimum hardware requirements : Minimum System Requirements – Guild Wars 2 Support. If you can't play the game because you don't meet the requirements, then what do you want the devs to do about it? Go back to 1990s DOS-based gaming because you don't have a powerful enough PC?
 

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

You're the one insulting people here for suggesting it just takes intelligence to beat the boss. Nothing could be further from the truth. Basically every player has the intelligence to beat the meta. Heck, they all have the intelligence to beat any raid CM.

I said "make themselves better and learning from their mistakes and failures." I did not say they did not have intelligence.

But let's try it your way. You said that they all have the intelligence to beat any raid CM. Well then, why don't they? Top-Tiered Terror Toppler gives 10 gold and Terror Toppler's treasure, and it resets weekly. Why aren't all people who have the intelligence do that?

Think about it, then you will see that there is a huge difference between "having intelligence" and "applying the intelligence that you have".

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

The thing they are lacking is hardcore training. GW2 doesn't even provide any information about how you're doing. DPS, Boons, Healing. You get absolutely no feedback from the game whether you're any good, if you're improving or what's going on. So deliberately progressing here is already a pretty darn high barrier.

That's why you have communities dedicated to training people who want to learn. Even hardcore statics  are also contributing information on how to deal with each encounter. They don't have to, but they do. This is FREE training and FREE information. Off the top of my head you have:

Raid Trainers:

Raid Training Initiative

The Crossroads Inn


Raid Statics:

Lucky Noobs (https://lucky-noobs.com)

SnowCrows (https://snowcrows.com)

 

Fractals Statics:

discretize.eu

 

As for information about DPS, boons and healing, you have ArcDps for that, which is a legal addon which provides all the information you wanted. It even ranks your DPS against others within your squad, tells you what skill did the most attack, who gave quickness or alacrity to your party, etc.

2 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

Just as hypothetical example. I'm a scourge. I'll just spam my weapon skills. Constantly looking back at them because I have no intuitive feeling of how long they need. Deliberate care with my F4 + blood letting so I don't take damage from bleeding. Generally don't have much heal at all so need to constantly focus on incoming damage to barrier beforehand, position myself right so my AoEs affect the target, watch the ground for having to dodge an instakill, keep an eye on the chat, keep an eye on the quest bar (for simultaneous kills), need to anticipate certain attacks (because dodging doesn't work on that attack and you can't walk out of it from everywhere). So remember the phases and order to do things. Select the right targets so I even see a defiance bar when it comes up. At which point I need to change up my thinking and remember which ones deal defiance damage instead (shame on me if I didn't hold them back for this purpose)

If I actually have to think and consciously look at all these things it's excessive. It's genuinely overwhelming. An average person can keep track of about 7 things at once. Just memorizing / not forgetting to do it. Not even taking action. Just skill cooldowns will occupy all mental capacity of an inexperienced player. 

Only through deliberate training can these move into muscle memory to the point where you can focus primarily on damage indicators and event mechanics. 

Yes, I agree with this: You need to deliberately train yourself if you want to succeed in the harder parts of the game. DE is one of the harder parts of the game (at least right now). You have to consciously think, be aware of your surroundings in game, watch out for the tail, for the tsunamis, and other things that do damage to you. 

 

2 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

Give people a judgement free space to fail, see and learn. With consistent design language and consistent mechanics. And things improve. 

That's what training is for.

2 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

 The current narrative of "brainless idiots", "just getting better", "harder content please" and so on is utter kitty litter. The fault is exclusively and 100% with ANet. Who shape spaces for elitists, don't teach appropriately and then just throw people into deeper and deeper ends. EOD is, unfortunately, more of that. And not the smoother ramp upwards that has been so desperately needed basically from day 1.

How is it Anet's fault?

Isn't it Anet who gives you an introduction to dodging very early in the core game and in Seitung Province?

Isn't it Anet who shows what Crowd Control skills are in Seitung Province as well?

Isn't it Anet who teaches you about combo fields, again, in Seitung Province?

Isn't it Anet who gives information about your traits when you hover over them?

This is not being elitist: this is showing the basics of the mechanics of the  game. BASICS.

2 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

But if people like you want more advanced content, you should absolutely care much more about how the game communicates to it's casual audience. What is a success, what is a fail and is the experience and the progression fun? 

Yes, all of that is available in map chat. 

We tell you what the mechanics are of the event.

We tell you what to do so the event can succeed.

We tell you what "greens" are.

We tell you when is the right time to go and hit the tail.

We tell you to watch out for the tsunamis.

 

We pretty much do care.

[Erise.5614]

47 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

Why not try it yourself? They have the info here in the forums: [Raid][EU] Crossroads Inn Raid Training guild/discord server is looking for Commanders - Looking For Guild - Guild Wars 2 Forums. It's free training. All you have to do is sign up and attend it.

I did try. Cleared W1-W4 with different communities and guilds. Before I finally drew the conclusion that I didn't enjoy a minute of it and decided legendary armor wasn't worth that

47 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

Because an event without timers until the event succeeds is going to be very problematic. What happens if a map has little to no people and a meta event is running and they are not interested in it?

Obviously I'm not talking about infinite durations. When I'm talking about timers here, I'm talking about timers any sensible attempt might run into. If the boss timer was 60 minutes, no real run would fail and the technical limitations would be taken care of. Closing due to underpopulation is still a thing, etc.

That's just a strawman at this point. 

47 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

That's why they put out minimum hardware requirements : Minimum System Requirements – Guild Wars 2 Support.

I'm not talking about not clearing minimum specs.

I am above those by an incredible margin.

60% more GHz per core, 200% CPU cores, 800% more VRAM, 1200% more GPU cores, 1000% more RAM.

This was top hardware a few years ago and still counts as high end today. 

47 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

That's why you have communities dedicated to training people who want to learn. Even hardcore statics  are also contributing information on how to deal with each encounter. They don't have to, but they do. This is FREE training and FREE information. Off the top of my head you have:

 

47 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

As for information about DPS, boons and healing, you have ArcDps for that, which is a legal addon which provides all the information you wanted. It even ranks your DPS against others within your squad, tells you what skill did the most attack, who gave quickness or alacrity to your party, etc.

Do you even understand what an incredible time investment you expect here?
Yes, there are people who offer training and stuff. As pointed out. I've tried various, including two listed by you. Didn't enjoy my time with any. It's additional installs, additional organization and all in all a lot of stuff I and many others aren't thrilled about.

It's fine if there's content for people like that. But it's not for me. And that's also fine.

What isn't fine is forcing me into content of that difficulty or putting it into open world. Content of such difficulty should at least get the dragonstorm treatment. 

47 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

That's what training is for.

I mean. It's what you make it out to be. But it's really not. It differs to what extent judgement is portrayed. However, even in the groups making the most effort for inclusion I've heard stuff like "Yeah! We finally did it!". Finally being the keyword here. There is still underhanded critique. Which, you know. Is totally fine. I chose to engage with that and did mess up a bunch. But I don't enjoy it and therefore excluded myself from the content going forward. 

All I'm asking is for ANet and you to just accept that I may not enjoy the same things as that part of the community and to let me decide when and how I want to engage with it. Mostly I want to play as well as I can without any further training or anything of the sorts and still get my small rewards and progress towards some long term grind. 

47 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

How is it Anet's fault?

Isn't it Anet who gives you an introduction to dodging very early in the core game and in Seitung Province?

Isn't it Anet who shows what Crowd Control skills are in Seitung Province as well?

Isn't it Anet who teaches you about combo fields, again, in Seitung Province?

Isn't it Anet who gives information about your traits when you hover over them?

This is not being elitist: this is showing the basics of the mechanics of the  game. BASICS.

Isn't it Anet who gives DPS numbers, boon durations and healing stats?... wait...

This is off handedly mentioning mechanics and then going "eat or die".

I mean, yeah. A lot of that is written somewhere. But holy guacamole. I'm not reading 153 skills (just as example for the base class Elementalist) + 60 traits and make sense of it. Looking up some meta build doesn't tell me what everything means or why it's used, what the benefits are. At best I get an order in which to use skills which doesn't help in situations that actually need mechanics. 

I constantly needed a second screen for abbreviations because most people talk about is gibberish at face value. Swapping out a skill between bosses takes forever because I don't even know where to look for it. Whether people are talking about a trait or a skill or an elite skill. No idea what it does or how to use it. 

All of that is huge effort. I'm usually playing after work. Which has varying working hours and is utterly exhausting. The very, very last thing that comes to my mind then is: "Yippie! Let's read all of that and theory craft and improve my DPS rotation on golem! How about a raid!?" 

None of that is fun. That's not unwinding. It's the opposite of that. It's more stress. If ANet want's me to engage beyond what's currently usual in the rest of the open world, then it needs to be tiny, tiny steps. Teaching, reinforcing, repeating and slowly increasing in difficulty. 

Learning about CC in an area where I have infinite time and don't need to worry about anything else is not the same as getting killed while being yelled at in chat for not having predicted what was gonna happen when I should've "just CC'd".

And, just to clarify. I'm probably still among the upper 50% of players in terms of skill and dedication. Nothing to brag about. But I do understand all of the mechanics. I'm just not the fastest or most consistent. 

47 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

Yes, all of that is available in map chat. 

Hahaha. What game are you playing? Map chat is terrible. I have it on right now to increase chances. Even try to help myself. But there's more flaming than useful information in there (neither of which the majority of what's going on there)

 

47 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

We pretty much do care.

Only so long as I do what you expect. The moment I don't I'm an afk, 11111111 brainless idiot. 

I mean, your entire comment is one huge version of "git gud". It's phrased nicer. But it's essentially the same. 

But I don't care to git gud. Tried it. Seriously did. But it's not for me. But all you keep saying is "just do it! Just git gud!"

How is that caring about me? All you want of me is to play the content you like in the way you enjoy. Without considering that I may not in fact enjoy any of that. While still loving the game.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Erise.5614

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

5 hours ago, Melech.4308 said:

I don't think it killed raids at all. I raid every week and as long as you can show KP and do the mechanics in raids it's fine. We all want to succeed but if one person can't do the mechanics then of course the com will kick them out of the raids.

And that right there is the very definition of Elitism

Edited March 4, 2022 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[BoAKaN.6052]

I just had a map fail while she was super low % because of RNG mechanics on the boss. It's really not fair for everyone to do everything possible correct, only to lose because she kept using her bite attacking 5x in a row, making her untargetable for at least a minute. How are you supposed to be able to kill her when you have to keep rotating to her tail, while this is also happening. We literally lost one "hand/head" phase because of this. By the time she was done spamming her bite attack, we had to go back to the tail. It's just not right, there needs to be some consistency on her attacks.

[Lightnin Luke.9470]

I have now failed this 38hrs straight. Please nerf this or get turtle out of it.

[Daniyyel.3428]

after doing this meta for  6 hours a day finally got a win.  No need to do my cardio for the day.  Was down to about 15 sec left. Even though I finally got a win I think anet needs to do something to tone this down.  I just got lucky to be on a map that the commander did a great job.  No discord just calls in map.  I totally understand peoples frustration with this meta. 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by danielrjones.8759

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

1 minute ago, danielrjones.8759 said:

after doing this meta for 5 days 6 hours a day finally got a win.  No need to do my cardio for the day.  Was down to about 15 sec left. Even though I finally got a win I think anet needs to do something to tone this down.  I just got lucky to be on a map that the commander did a great job.  No discord just calls in map.  I totally understand peoples frustration with this meta. 

 

Thanks for the backing support, and grats on turtle!

[Mark.2068]

This horrible meta must be nerfed, its necesary.