DO NOT nerf Dragon's End meta.

[George.9745]

If u want a challenge, how about trying raids, fractal CM or even strikes? There is special content just for that. No need to bring all the raid lfg in open world. I literally saw in lfg "meta 200LI HFB Alac meta DPS class". You are all delusional if you think this is fine. 

[Sevens.9452]

3 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Oh yeah look at wildstar. Casuals run the game world, you may see hardcore players speak the loudest through twitch and youtube, but its the casuals that pay the bills by sheer numbers

not really (granted gw2 isnt fully f2p)

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-09-only-2-2-percent-of-free-to-play-users-ever-pay-report

[Melech.4308]

6 hours ago, MokahTGS.7850 said:

This is hilarious that people think this meta design is okay for open world.  One person not completing a jumping puzzle wipes everyone?  Is that true?  

Here's WPs take on it, and if what he's saying is true, this meta is ridiculous. 

 

I watched this video, and I think what WP was referring to was the pre-nerf "no greens" tactic, where one person and one person only was supposed to do greens, and if there was another person who did do greens and doesn't complete the wisp phase, then that's a solid 2 minutes down the drain.

[Erise.5614]

27 minutes ago, Sevens.9452 said:

not really (granted gw2 isnt fully f2p)

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-09-only-2-2-percent-of-free-to-play-users-ever-pay-report

Wrong numbers. That's for your average mobile game. Think, candy crush.

PC games do better (~3.5%) and MMOs do even better. 25% are not unheard of.

Considering complaints about this are only by people who already paid $30 it's a pretty bad argument too. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Erise.5614

[arron.3294]

Yes please don't Anet I've been playing since the betas just before gw2 came out the only thing i missed was season 1 please don't make final meta weaker or watered down to the point where its just one more meta that isn't done or people don't wanna do because people cant be boughed to learn the mechanics some people want it handed on a plate to them and weaken the epic final boss that warps up a 10-12 year story line no thanks this is why i believe raids wont be back because to many people think there hard and wont try them i don't wanna see the end of this story watered down to the point of dragons stand where u don't have to think or act just whack things so "everyone's happy"  (FYI I've failed this meta like 25 times so far) but i keep trying i keep learning i keep growing as a player all I'm hearing in map chat is the following 

" i tired of this meta"
"its to RNG (bosses attacks)"
"its to hard" 
"it pointless"

the expac's only been out a week now do they want anet to make everything one shot kill or something stupid
i hope anet if u read these give over people who don't wanna do the meta a route to get the turtle mount if that's why there complaining let us the players who want this hard to keep it hard 

maybe I'm a bit on the side of the game since I've played it for 12 so years now and new people are facing that massive wall but why play an mmo and not learn the mechanics not learn the systems not learn the story the lore of this amazing game  

[Wintermute.5408]

People are actually searching for roles. For an open-world meta. I'm just sitting here waiting for LI requirements to pop up.

 

Keeep this kitten to raids, anet. There's a reason they are dead content.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Wintermute.5408

[battledrone.8315]

19 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

its so amusing to see people malding over OPs correct statement. and it shows none of them played the game during the HOT days.
silverwaste failed for days up to 2 weeks. 
verdant brink also failed around the same time frame,
tarir also 2 weeks of mostly failure.
chack gerenth HA it was even failing long past the HOT launch.
dragon stand: the other dragon meta also taking a freaking hour failed so often its hilarious that you now complain about this last map meta to be SO hard.

you all need to remember that these maps are now on farm status, none of them nerfed at all, adjusted for lacking things perhaps but never out right nerfed. get over yourselves, get better at the game and make other become better too. Dragon's end will be there too in time. also why do you want EoD progress to be over in a week? relax and take it slow. not to mention the turle has ALOT of powercreep for those who are not as good, so its a good thing its not obtained easily. anet may not say it directly but doing THAT they tell you to GIT GUT

hot was nerfed at least twice, and it it still cost them a lot of players and goodwill

i am not sure, that this is the example you want to use. i was there at launch, and i saw the  bodies of logged out players,

and the map chat light up in frustration.. people didnt git gud. they got out. this is exactly the same, you would had though, they they would had learned the lesson by now

[Erise.5614]

31 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

People are actually searching for roles. For an open-world meta. I'm just sitting here waiting for LI requirements to pop up.

 

Keeep this kitten to raids, anet. There's a reason they are dead content.

Oh, that's already a thing. They wait in arborstone, demand LI/raid KPs and once there's a full squad they all TP simultaneously trying to force a new map instance to load. If that doesn't work, they try to bully or pay gold to regular people on the map so they leave. Payment isn't even a scam and they aren't stingy either. I've seen 5 gold when first messaging them sent without strings attached and 5 gold more when they leave. That's almost more gold than you make from finishing the event with full rewards. 

But yeah. Point being. It's already way past that point. 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Erise.5614

[battledrone.8315]

44 minutes ago, arron.3294 said:

Yes please don't Anet I've been playing since the betas just before gw2 came out the only thing i missed was season 1 please don't make final meta weaker or watered down to the point where its just one more meta that isn't done or people don't wanna do because people cant be boughed to learn the mechanics some people want it handed on a plate to them and weaken the epic final boss that warps up a 10-12 year story line no thanks this is why i believe raids wont be back because to many people think there hard and wont try them i don't wanna see the end of this story watered down to the point of dragons stand where u don't have to think or act just whack things so "everyone's happy"  (FYI I've failed this meta like 25 times so far) but i keep trying i keep learning i keep growing as a player all I'm hearing in map chat is the following 

" i tired of this meta"
"its to RNG (bosses attacks)"
"its to hard" 
"it pointless"

the expac's only been out a week now do they want anet to make everything one shot kill or something stupid
i hope anet if u read these give over people who don't wanna do the meta a route to get the turtle mount if that's why there complaining let us the players who want this hard to keep it hard 

maybe I'm a bit on the side of the game since I've played it for 12 so years now and new people are facing that massive wall but why play an mmo and not learn the mechanics not learn the systems not learn the story the lore of this amazing game  

they literally tell you why in map chat. 25x 2 hrs is over a work week. most casuals will quit way before that.

 

[ctorrezan.3498]

We don't need a nerf, we just need a couple of minutes more, it will remain challenging but not frustrating.

[Sevens.9452]

13 minutes ago, ctorrezan.3498 said:

We don't need a nerf, we just need a couple of minutes more, it will remain challenging but not frustrating.

every 1min you get is equivalent to a 5% nerf

[ctorrezan.3498]

12 minutes ago, Sevens.9452 said:

every 1min you get is equivalent to a 5% nerf

makes sense, nerf it

[castlemanic.3198]

1 hour ago, Melech.4308 said:

I watched this video, and I think what WP was referring to was the pre-nerf "no greens" tactic, where one person and one person only was supposed to do greens, and if there was another person who did do greens and doesn't complete the wisp phase, then that's a solid 2 minutes down the drain.

In that very video, WP said that open world metas should be easy. starting at 20:22, WP talks about how the meta is about as hard as launch chak gerent and about how that's a bad idea, specifically calling the difficulty a mistake and at  22:32, saying this exactly:

 

"Tarir does not need to be hard, meta events that turn hard run into these fundamental problems. hard work content in the open world just doesn't work."

 

and at 22:55

"if you wanna do hard content, you don't do it in an environment where players have minimal control over who they're doing that content with."

 

So WP is specifically saying that this meta event shouldn't be hard in any capacity at all. mechanical complexity is one thing, challenge/difficulty is another. You can have complex mechanics without it being difficult. He's saying that despite the fact that he's enjoyed content like chak gerent before. 'lessons have been learned' he says at one point.

 

he's not just talking about the green circles, he's talking about difficulty in open world content in general.

 

[pugster.9378]

 

51 minutes ago, ctorrezan.3498 said:

We don't need a nerf, we just need a couple of minutes more, it will remain challenging but not frustrating.

Adding a few minutes more is nerfing.  I'm sure that  most people would stop complaining if they can actually finish their meta.  

Edited March 7, 2022 by pugster.9378

[Heibi.4251]

3 hours ago, Sevens.9452 said:

not really (granted gw2 isnt fully f2p)

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-09-only-2-2-percent-of-free-to-play-users-ever-pay-report

Free to play aren't the casuals they were talking about. They are the normal day to day players, who own the game,  who merely log into GW2 to play on their free time and like to buy gems to buy the latest skins and socialize with their other friends in the game.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Heibi.4251

[Taygus.4571]

Ive given up pn Dragons end, until something changes.

 

The level of organisation required, demands a private instanxe to control player composition but that isn't possible. 

 

Its rediculous to need this level of skill for an open world meta.

 

I'm not against 50 man raids, but they need to have the systems in place to make them effective. 

 

Open world should be easier..with kitten rewards if you want, then allow guilds to make a provate instance which can be hard and require competency.

 

Expecting this level of skill from randoms just doesnt make sense.. and I'm not even talking players who struggle..what if theyre all healer/supports builds? etc You dont get to deciee which map you land in.

 

Worse, most of the maps dont even complete the side events in time for the boss lol. This isn't fun, and people like me, will just go back to tarir.

[Custodio.6134]

While i agree that the difficulty is indeed pretty high compared to other metas, it is NOT the event´s fault (at least not only the event itself) that so many people fail it. 
One part of the reasons this meta fails so often is, that it heavily punishes you for not accordingly doing the intended mechanics. biggest example: if the tail gets ignored for too long, you will inevitably lose to the timer. it´s not a slight DPS-loss if you ignore that mechanic, it is a significant DPS-loss for everyone. Another example is the oneshot attacks. You MUST avoid them, else you die (and dead players again result in a DPS-loss for everyone). 

Another reason why this meta fails so often is actually not game-mechanic-sided, but player-sided. Taking out our "friend" (and curse) arcdps reveals (especially in "random squads") that people very often deal close to zero damage (speaking of less than 2k wihtout dying), because they are brain-afk leave auto-attack running. 

I also agree, that the overall difficulty is too high for a map-meta-event, especially in relation to the preparation-time beforehand. But it is far from impossible to do. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Custodio.6134

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

I think I posted my thread in general discussion rather than EOD discussion.

Anyway, here is what I have to say about why we should not nerf Soo-Won map meta:

Stop Complaining About Soo-Won Map Meta Difficulty - Guild Wars 2 Discussion - Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Barraind.7324]

8 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

Wrong numbers. That's for your average mobile game. Think, candy crush.

PC games do better (~3.5%) and MMOs do even better. 25% are not unheard of.

Considering complaints about this are only by people who already paid $30 it's a pretty bad argument too. 

 

It goes even further than that.  I did QA/QC for a mobile game publisher, and while numbers were similar, that didnt account for spending at launch and new player bundles, which saw massive increases over the standard.  Basically if you're in that space and playing in the first couple weeks, you're spending some amount. 

 

The figures for spending over time also include players who download a game because of a targeted recommendation, play it for a day or two, and uninstall it, which make up a huge chunk of the mobile app space.

 

Yes, 2.5% of players will spend, but something like 30-40% of "players" dont even get past the introduction levels.  You can track that on games with achievement systems.  Check how many people who installed the game dont even have the equivalent of "i made it off tutorial island". Those people all count against the spending percentage, despite, in a number of cases, never making it to a place they even have the ability to spend. 

 

 

As to the meta itself:  We took an organized group of 65-70 in there, and between bugs (losing 45 seconds cause she just disappeared at 20% instead of transitioning), getting all of 3 breakbar phases for the whole of the fight (95%, 81%, 10%), and her inability to do anything besides switch sides and pop a tail up to kill for the last half of the fight, we killed it with seconds left.

The RNG is well beyond absurdly stupid at this point.  1 more breakbar instead of a side swap? We would have had minutes left.  1 more jump the ripple (she did that 2x all fight)? still minutes.  "Average" rng?  we would have been done with 5+ minutes left.  But no, we had enough side changes that we ran out of portals on a regular basis and won with seconds.

 

An average group doing that would have, without even knowing it, already been beaten with 15 minutes still on the timer while thinking they were in great position to clear it. 

 

Thats just a bad event. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Barraind.7324

[Kitta.3657]

I just came here to show my support of the original author's thread because I believe people who share our opinion don't want to engage with the forums enough for our side to be represented. I agree completely. At worse, give them their stupid turtle elsewhere but it is highly disheartening that the playerbase is ready to give up at the first instance of having to actually engage with the rich depth of the game's combat system on a bare minimum level.

[LucianDK.8615]

16 minutes ago, Kitta.3657 said:

I just came here to show my support of the original author's thread because I believe people who share our opinion don't want to engage with the forums enough for our side to be represented. I agree completely. At worse, give them their stupid turtle elsewhere but it is highly disheartening that the playerbase is ready to give up at the first instance of having to actually engage with the rich depth of the game's combat system on a bare minimum level.

More like a miscalculation about what the average gw2 player is capable of doing.

[rune.9572]

I managed to complete the meta 4 times with 49 other random players while this thread reached page 17 of complaints. And yet so far, no one here has posted their fight log or even a video of their gameplay. You know, so people can give actual personalized feedback on what to do differently in order to win.

I'm just waiting for anet to butcher this event only to have the same wave of complaints about that other requirement when people get to it and inevitably fail. In my mind I already see people posting "nerf the big aoe", "mech has too much hp", "needs a raid squad" etc.

The turtle isn't even that good anyway.

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by rune.9572
brain can't grammar

[Artemis.8034]

16 hours ago, Sevens.9452 said:

not really (granted gw2 isnt fully f2p)

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-09-only-2-2-percent-of-free-to-play-users-ever-pay-report

Dig a little deeper into that link, they are talking monetized mobile games. Not mmorpgs like wow or gw2 or FF. Mobile games are cheap throwaway games, people who play games like GW2 play for the long haul. The majority of players in this game that buys mounts and skins are regular players, yes the whales spend more per person but we all buy. I buy mount skins and packages and im not a whale. You cannot compare mobile gamming to games like wow and GW2 and FF ect, its apples and potatoes man. 

[RyuDragnier.9476]

2 hours ago, rune.9572 said:

I managed to complete the meta 4 times with 49 other random players while this thread reached page 17 of complaints. And yet so far, no one here has posted their fight log or even a video of their gameplay. You know, so people can give actual personalized feedback on what to do differently in order to win.

Yes, because 1 person can control 10 others going down from an attack during the fight. 1 person can single handedly carry 49 other players, etc etc. No, a single player cannot cause all the issues. It takes multiples, and that can compound with bad luck people are having with the boss deciding to dash across the arena multiple times in a row, costing valuable seconds that could be spelling the difference between success and failure.

[rwolf.9571]

Welp, PvE experience now has "Raid and Fractal CM" like elitism. Guess Anet didn't see that coming.
Never had issues or complained about previous meta's being difficult, as they were entirely optional. I'd hop in try, forget about it, come back to it later with some mechanics learned.

Hey it "was" fun. I've commanded a few Dragons Stand runs at the peak of it.. Was the right balance of difficulty at the time, Just needed the will of the players and coordination.

Now that they've locked a whole advertised feature set behind one. Hooo boy, did Anet open a can of worms. I don't see anyway for Anet to get out of this, without nerfing this to the ground, players finding new ways to break the intended battle to make it easier/less pug reliant (one which was already nerfed, adjusted?), or entirely divorcing the mount from the Meta.

I don't think I've ever seen a community divided to a meta prior like this.

Seeing the same energy as those Dragon Stand runs, in Dragons End is great! People are WILLING to work cooperatively, showing up early, and set out to do the most they can, within their ability and timeframe. So people telling to get good can pound sand. You are just dividing the community to a point, where they're probably never touch the meta again. You want to help? give advice, help players who are inexperienced coming into this.

Personally I'm avoiding the meta for now, I already failed enough attempts. And hearing players with more time than me, waste half a day for basically nothing, is enough a deterrent.

As for ppl saying Strikes being another barrier, you can easily carry 1-3 dead ppl in a strike with a pug, with some semblance of the holy trinity. And with strikes are repeatable, comes with a faster learning curve, a sense of progression. Instead of rolling the dice every 2 hours. Even with a prepped instance, your improving the chances, but still rolling a dice in the current state.

With Raids and T4 Fractals, it does not have to be toxic and elitist, as you can choose who to play with. But open world PvE gated content, where it's anybody's game... Well see if this gets for better or worse in the next few weeks.