Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

17 hours ago, Stelawrat.6589 said:

Ah ha! I wonder what would happen if you had a full group of Firebrands only, well organized into offensive & defensive groups. If you ever do that, make sure to record it for us. 😁

While FB is a great pick for... anything I guess, it doesn't cover everything e.g. alac. Quickness does contribute to increased dps more that it really should though.
I'm a big fan of mixed groups that can provide unique boons: Rangers - spotter, spirits; Warriors - banners; Harbingers - everything?
Even though it is an open world content, it's still a GROUP content. Let's not be afraid to bring boons to the table, they bump GROUP DPS up 😁

I've been having as much fun running cqFB as I have running pure cFB.

Edited March 11, 2022 by NotTooFoolish.7412
Lel reversed the roles

[Heibi.4251]

Here's a take on ANET's wanting this to be a frequented META like Chak Garant, Dragon Stand, and other METAS.

The problem with their thinking is that you can't just say you're going to do the META when the time for it to begin is approaching. If you can't get on an organized map you can't do the META. METAs like Chak Garant have players arriving minutes before, tags pop up in each lane and the event begins. Success rate is probably in the 90's, with very few failures. And the failures are usually just because lanes like Nuhoch don't have enough folks. Rare.

So, in short, if ANET wants DE to be a staple of the META jumping players it needs to be able to have players able to show up on short notice and have a high success rate. The commanders who are currently leading mostly successful attempts won't be doing this event permanently. I feel sad that all the hard work that went into this zone will be wasted. I still haven't had a successful run and not sure I ever will. Haven't been able to join in on the hyper-organized runs.

So, ANET, you should really start looking at what you want for sustaining this META in the long run. Because once the hype is over this map will be abandoned since people won't be able to just decide to do the META on a whim. All that will be left are the node collectors, fishermen, and heart finishers. There will be maybe a few organized pushes daily, but that is all. Most won't find it necessary to bother with the final battle.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Heibi.4251

[FortnitemareCourt.8354]

Did another run last night. Full 50 person squad everyone doing things right. Most people were in discord. We were doing fantastic until the last 20%. Failed at 4% because she kept swapping sides and then her tail went up right there at 5%. We also lost time at the 40% phase because despite the fact that we phased her she had her swoop to the other side queued up and did that even after we phased her. In some maps that probably wouldn't have mattered, but dang that sucks.

It feels like now that the tail is up less often she's going back and forth more often which results in more invuln frames and less time we can damage her. It is SO FREAKING DEMORALIZING to be doing so good only to fail because of RNG of mechanics. The whirlpools are unfair because their break bar is so high you can't break yourself out. Sometimes you get 4+ thornhearts, sometimes none. One 10% fail I did was because we got back after the three boss split and there were 4 thornhearts on the platform and no one has enough stability to deal with that.

I know the fight is beatable, but only if you get lucky with mechanics. I've been trying to join discord groups because those seem to be the most organized. But when there are so many variables to the fight it's not fair. I want to keep trying, but with each fail my husband get angrier and angrier at the game. We're not bad players, we both earned every single piece of our legendary armor with hard work raiding.

Either remove the RNG of her mechanics or pause the timer at boss split phases. Teq pauses the timer for batteries and even at Triple Trouble, which is up til now one of the hardest bosses coordination wise, the mechanics are the same each time. Even then both Teq and TT have guild spawns and you can re-do it right away if you fail it at the specified time. This meta doesn't need a hard nerf, the small changes you've made so far are going in the right direction.

I hope Anet is looking at not just overall completions, but at WHO is completing it. If it's the same people each time completing it then there are a lot more people like me who keep trying and failing.

[chronometria.3708]

Its really strange - whenever anet speaks about it, they say their data shows loads of groups completing the event successfully. Considering the massive amount of failures i and others have experienced, i just dont see how this is possible. How can their data be so skewed to the positive?

[Zok.4956]

1 minute ago, chronometria.3708 said:

Its really strange - whenever anet speaks about it, they say their data shows loads of groups completing the event successfully. Considering the massive amount of failures i and others have experienced, i just dont see how this is possible. How can their data be so skewed to the positive?

The data itself is one thing but looking at the right data and drawing the correction conclusions from the data is another thing.

[ngochung.4705]

I finished the meta last night: a hugh relief. And then I had to spend all today doing jade maw since the boss hp is scaling rapidly as soon as people joining in, from 1 hit 5% to 2% and 1%... I finally get to the 10 man squad and finished the turtle achivement. After all the fuss, I can't see my self enter DE again if nothing change in the future.

 

Good luck to all who keep trying, peace out. 

[Heibi.4251]

49 minutes ago, khani.4786 said:

 

I hope Anet is looking at not just overall completions, but at WHO is completing it. If it's the same people each time completing it then there are a lot more people like me who keep trying and failing.

That is the real question and concern. I personally think they are ONLY looking at numbers, not who is there at the time.  That's why they decided to give us the merchant to buy the turtle. They don't want to admit their error. The merchant is a consolation prize and the weak way out for them. They don't care about the common run of the mill player's chances at completing their "epic" final battle. 

The spokes lady who hyped up the expansion should be embarrassed about this situation. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Heibi.4251

[melon.2538]

I'm a casual and I would have found this meta fun (even green circle phase that gives me spike lags for several seconds halfway up the tower) if not for the things that should be addressed.

Fix whichever of timer/dps check/hp/invuln phase rng that has most runs failing. Also, whirlpools bursting mechanics won't be getting much use, unless their breakbars are nerfed, because it's quicker to die and respawn. And it's coming from someone who was caught in two whirlpools in a row and a bubble afterwards. It's not fun just waiting to die or waiting for others to die while you race the timer.

Make instanced hard version for raiders, nerf OW one.

[Huffinator.4598]

Another failed attempt, I'm officially throwing in the towel with doing this meta PUG style. You just can't expect 50-ish random people to pull this off without RNG being heavily in your favor. The tolerances are too tight. There will always be people that don't have max stat gear, jade off/def buffs, map buffs, cc skills (Even a mere EMP would help tremendously if everybody had the mastery), and the general will to actually learn all the mechanics of the fight. The meanest I will ever get is a mere "lol" if I see several people or more get downed/killed to the easily avoidable Soo-Wan attack. Three expansions in and I worry if people still haven't figured out how to use their class to put out decent damage. Note how I am not saying you have to use any kind of specific raid build, I just want you to be decent at your job. I refuse to be a part of those elitist groups where its "You play this build exactly or you are not welcome here"...

 

I stick my beliefs that you shouldn't need outside communities (Twitch, Discord, etc.) to be able to beat this meta with a high probability of success.

 

Last attempt I spent so much time trying to get into a "meta focused" map, I didn't realize that my event bonus expired and I only had enough time to do a mere 1 event before the lane events began. I have gotten to the point where I don't die from the final boss and only get downed when I get a lag spike due to all the particle effects or there are just so many enemy circles in my area that I can't avoid them all. I was still among the top performers in dps as a very squishy ele and I was not playing a raid build. Heck in my subgroup, when we knew we was going to fail we just dps-ed the [meow] out of our assigned boss when you have to kill 3 at the same time. We did it with plenty of time to spare before the timer eventually ran down to zero while the others didn't even come close at all. I think its safe to say that a small percentage of PUGS would bring their "A" game overall throughout the whole experience. There's just too many people that want to skill 1 their way to victory, quit at various points in the battle for any reason,  die and refuse to waypoint immediately, etc.

 

Also, I do hate how the timer just keeps ticking when you reach the threshold percentages to where you can't damage Soo-Wan anymore and Soo-Wan just wants to keep attacking when she is invulnerable before actually triggering the next sequence of the fight. I was in a fight where I didn't get tail after tail after tail, but the amount of invulnerability garbage was noticeably much higher than what I've dealt with in the past.

[Ozimul.9185]

Yet another organized run that crashed and burned at 20% due to the "fixed" Tail and Bite mechanics coming up constantly and at inopportune times.

Remove the RNG. Have the bites and tails only come up at fixed percentages if you absolutely must keep them in, Anet. This map is going to be a ghost town on the 15th otherwise.

[Kalavier.1097]

On 3/9/2022 at 8:08 PM, Sentient Anomaly.9473 said:

Hello everyone, we have an update from the Guild Wars 2 team. We'll be localizing this for German, French, and Spanish as soon as possible:

Hi all,

Last week we made some changes to the final encounter of the Jade Sea meta event to help improve the accessibility of the fight, and we’re happy to see that the rate of successful event completions continues to rise each day. We’ve kept a close eye on the community discussion after those updates were made, and today we have two more changes that we’d like to discuss.

First, effective immediately, we’ve reduced the frequency at which the Jade Sea Final Boss activates their 'Tail' by about ~50%. This will give players longer windows to deal damage to the boss and contend with the various other mechanics of the encounter. To be clear, this change does not require a game build to take effect.

Second, in the March 15 update, we’ll be providing players with an alternate path for acquiring the Siege Turtle Egg, which unlocks the collection required for the Siege Turtle mount. We’ll be adding a new vendor to the Jade Sea map that will sell the Siege Turtle Egg at the cost of 200 Writs of the Jade Sea. The Siege Turtle Egg will continue to be awarded to players that successfully complete the “Battle for Jade Sea” meta event, so players will have the choice to unlock the collection via a challenging meta encounter or through time investment.

We’re looking forward to seeing how today’s “tail” adjustment plays out, and we’ll continue to iterate on the fight until it achieves our goal of being a challenging yet doable encounter for most of our players. Achieving that goal will require continued attention from us, and some patience and learning from our players. This situation feels not too dissimilar to the release of Tequatl, Triple Trouble, or Dragon Stand, all of which are popular encounters in Guild Wars 2 to this day.

As always, thank you for your feedback!

We'll see you in-game,

• The Guild Wars 2 Team

 

To clarify for those who are confused, are you meaning a new writ, or the same writ we currently already get from the map?

Because I just had people going on about how it's a new writ, not the same as we had before when to me it's obvious you mean the writ already there.

[yann.1946]

7 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Lost as in leaving the game. Like people who have been burned by certain encounters now or in the past and left the game because of it, leaving behind those who were ok enough with how they were to stick around as the only people really still here to talk about how those encounters were in the past and how they are now. Creating a (possibly) biased picture of them that makes them seem better received than they were.

That is absolutely true, survivorship bias is on hell of a thing. I do think they have decent data on how many people quit after these metals though. So I'm not that worried in that regard. 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

10 hours ago, MorDread.2378 said:

Okay, So I FINALLY got a meta completed, took a lot since EoD was released, a lot of failed attempts, one went to 1% before failing. Guess what, I do NOT think people understand that this is the END of the story so it SHOULD be challenging.

 

What I do NOT see people in game talking about is the glider in the fight.

 

What? what about that glider? what's that got to do with it?

 

Let me give you an example. Shatterer where there are launch pads and you glide and drop bombs on the Shatterer and health bombs on players right? all on the breakbar usually.

 

Well we have a launch skill, the special Aurene gives us, have you noticed you can still bomb with the glider on the minibosses and on Soo Won? I bet you missed that. Question: why is it there? why can you do it when you normally can't anywhere else?

 

To BOMB the minibosses, you can sue the skill to relaunch when you touch the ground but also helping to heal those on the ground.

 

Now this is what I was doing on the 3 minibosses that spawn, I would bomb them but bomb healing on players. The destroyer one's health went down faster than the others this time, it may have had something to do with the players but I believe the bombing was a huge help that a couple other players were doing. I believe it will dmg the breakbars faster also.

 

Now if I am right? then that speeds up then kills on those where many will not use their gliders.

 

This was the one thing me and a few others did that I saw but was only a handful and the difference? apart from the commander doing really well, was a 2-3 minutes left after a successful completion.

 

Why no-one utilises the glider, which is actually very useful is beyond me. This should be attempted b y some while others maybe melee as you can dmg the miniboss and heal players easily.

 

Therefore, the more fragile players can glide around and bomb while still saying very safe in all respects.

 

But what about getting back to the platform if the special skill has worn off? after so many leaps yes, there was no skill left, however, the updrafts are there and you ride them up. Now imaghine if that is a critical mechanic what that would do? IF I am right? well that would be a huge game changer.

 

Then add your 1:30 min Tech Off and Tech Def boosts and the contributor................and if you can glide from the airship which gets close at times, not always but if youi happen to be close as I was once, you can bomb Soo Won too as you get back to the platform and heal players also. though getting back up in the air would not be a good idea, just as you are getting back from being downed, maybe bomb mobs on the arena floor.

 

No-one mentions the gliders and the skill set that is there at your disposal. Many just glide to the floor and slap the minibosses with a care in thje world of what their skill bar is suggesting. So I query that. See what happens and if ti makes a huge difference to those fights? then do it as they are normally slow to kill.

 

Use EVERY weapon in your arsenal and do not sniff at it as it may make the difference.

 

It is the ONE mechanic there that is being neglected.

Bruh I've done the glider technique since pre-patch, it makes absolutely no difference. Otherwise people who do it in every run would continuously be getting more successful runs than those who don't. 

Even with a full squad focusing on just Glider attacks on double and triple boss phase, it only saves you time if the rest of the boss run is actually doing decent without getting curb stomped by RNG (tails, whirpools, bubbles and CC). It's hardly a detrimental mechanic to the fight. 

[Desh.7028]

4 hours ago, chronometria.3708 said:

How can their data be so skewed to the positive?

 

I've done this once the day after launch (20% failure) and today - I wanted to wait and do it as an actual open world fight but that didn't work out. It is super easy but you have to approach the whole thing like a big raid and not an open world content piece. Full boons, supports and then make sure your big squad is the only one on the map. Farm events for 10 stacks and "high".

 

The first slam got a chunk of people and we instantly phased to 80, 60 and 40% because we were simply lucky. The only annoyance that should be any danger to anyone is the whirlpool which is a complete nonsense mechanic. It is a very simple fight, the entire difficulty lies in the preparation and it being completely overtuned for a true open world experience.

[Charybdis.3695]

I have a feeling that this will get a whole lot easier when we get to the point where nearly everyone is using turtles during the entire meta event, especially those riding with upgraded jade bots. The damage and cc looks very sufficient, it's just going to take some patience for more players to get there. By then it will probably end up being the most chill event to do and all this loud emotion will have been for nothing.

[zigzag.8159]

On 3/10/2022 at 4:34 PM, LieutenantDan.5216 said:

 

Excellent choice! I really like how it functions as loss protection. No matter what, a person can progress towards unlocking their turtle from participating in the meta.

 

This feels very inline with what I love about GW2 design.

 

Thank you, Anet!

 

just to get stuck finding a group to kill maw, kill levi, get a group  who likes strikes somehow, waiting wars keeps getting more boring

[Minjin.8259]

5 hours ago, khani.4786 said:

Did another run last night. Full 50 person squad everyone doing things right. Most people were in discord. We were doing fantastic until the last 20%. Failed at 4% because she kept swapping sides and then her tail went up right there at 5%. We also lost time at the 40% phase because despite the fact that we phased her she had her swoop to the other side queued up and did that even after we phased her. In some maps that probably wouldn't have mattered, but dang that sucks.

It feels like now that the tail is up less often she's going back and forth more often which results in more invuln frames and less time we can damage her. It is SO FREAKING DEMORALIZING to be doing so good only to fail because of RNG of mechanics. The whirlpools are unfair because their break bar is so high you can't break yourself out. Sometimes you get 4+ thornhearts, sometimes none. One 10% fail I did was because we got back after the three boss split and there were 4 thornhearts on the platform and no one has enough stability to deal with that.

I know the fight is beatable, but only if you get lucky with mechanics. I've been trying to join discord groups because those seem to be the most organized. But when there are so many variables to the fight it's not fair. I want to keep trying, but with each fail my husband get angrier and angrier at the game. We're not bad players, we both earned every single piece of our legendary armor with hard work raiding.

Either remove the RNG of her mechanics or pause the timer at boss split phases. Teq pauses the timer for batteries and even at Triple Trouble, which is up til now one of the hardest bosses coordination wise, the mechanics are the same each time. Even then both Teq and TT have guild spawns and you can re-do it right away if you fail it at the specified time. This meta doesn't need a hard nerf, the small changes you've made so far are going in the right direction.

I hope Anet is looking at not just overall completions, but at WHO is completing it. If it's the same people each time completing it then there are a lot more people like me who keep trying and failing.

Yesterday I went with the most organized group yet.  We had a comm that split us into correct groups, many of us brought proper builds, most people did everything right.  Very few downs, etc.  We had 2% left and 2 mins after the 3 way split.  We had time to kill her off, everyone thought we were going to get this one.  But she decided to flip flop around the platform for the entire time.  We never got a break bar to kill her.  Everyone left just dejected.  There was no toxicity, no blame game because there was no one to blame.  I can't do it again.  I just can't.  I have more than enough writs, I will buy it.  I don't care if anyone thinks I didn't earn it.  I never want to do it again.

[Blaeys.3102]

On 3/9/2022 at 8:44 PM, Josh Davis.7865 said:

We're investigating this. Ultimately, we want the End of Dragons metas to be a staple of the endgame open world experience, like the Heart of Thorns metas. We'll be taking the first step towards addressing this in the March 15 build.

 

 

As long as "staple of the endgame ..." means regular participation by almost all of your active players, then Im on board with that.

You have to realize you are a LONG WAY from that reality right now though. The lead in time to the fight, the RNG mess and the overtuned nature (which is likely due to VERY poor scaling) make the fight a long, drawn out slog that, based on bad RNG and group size, will likely just frustrate more and more players until they stop going to it.

 

You want a staple - look at something like Silverwastes or Dragon Stand. That is how you do an end game staple.

[Albadaran.1283]

13 hours ago, MorDread.2378 said:

Okay, So I FINALLY got a meta completed, took a lot since EoD was released, a lot of failed attempts, one went to 1% before failing. Guess what, I do NOT think people understand that this is the END of the story so it SHOULD be challenging.

[snip]

 

Its not the end of the story. In fact you don't even need it to complete the story.

[coffeecat.9218]

This is incredibly disappointing. One of the things that really makes gw2 stand out from some of the other mmos that I have played are the metas and open world events that anyone can join. Everyone doesn't have to have top tier gear and perfect rotations to do the event. For all the other metas and group events as long as you had enough people and a commander willing to explain the mechanics the event typically succeeded, but even if it it didn't you still got decent rewards along the way for the metas.

 

As almost everyone before me has said get rid of that atrocious rng with the boss mechanics. Who on earth thought that was a good idea.

 

If you insist on making the final meta of this expansion "hard" at least add an extended timer with different tier rewards. Stop wasting everyone's time. Having a two hour meta with a high fail rate, rng mechanics, and a group of 50 other random people is not fun. I have played the other metas countless times and almost always had a positive experience. This one I have tried 5 times, and I honestly never want to do it again.

 

[Bast.7253]

Just got it to the lowest I've ever gotten out of 20 runs. 

10% hp? 20%hp?

We had... TWO breakbar opportunities that entire fight with multiple back to back glides across the arena. 

This meta is still a steaming pile of garbage. 

And the 1.5 of doing boring copy paste events leading up to it are boring but you can't even get away from it because you need every damage increase you can get. 

And the fail of the map? Getting killed like dragon stand or dragon fall?

Nah, just a prompt to go to a new map that forces you after a few minutes. That's some quality detail right there.

[Heibi.4251]

Tried one last time. Failed. Got back to her with 2 min left to kill but she started the flopping around stuff and we couldn't spot her tail. The bubbles and whirlpools were out of control. It was like the AI decided to make us fail. We were organized - did everything right.

This is seriously way over tuned. Please tone it down or get rid of the timer. A long fight with success is a very epic fight. I'm sure the people want success more than a fast kill. The satisfaction of the kill is more important than the ego of the dev team who made this mess. I can see myself never finishing this meta. Thanks for nothing, ANET. But alas you probably aren't reading the forums and instead watching reddit threads.

[Ailis.7910]

Just finished another failed run and I honestly lost count of how many times she swooped and spun around the platform. Tail came up a LOT, including the grand total 2 times we had a breakbar. 

 

Please fix the RNG factor. This is absurd at this point. 

[fizzypetal.7936]

I took a break after the first three fails - did some reading up on the fight, tweaked my build.  Map was on high, had the 10 stacks, all the buffs.  Full squad plus others who followed, myself included.  Boss spent a lot of time invulnerable with swooping, switching.  Tail popped twice.  So disappointing.  When she did stay for a few seconds, she was going down quick, but then poof, gone again.  Think we got her down to 18%.   RNG did not favour us today.  Please ANET, do something about that.  2 hours gone, and no gold or real loot to show for it either..  

[cubed.2853]

i am now at 5 failures. the people are getting better, but the randomness is just unfair.  i don't feel like trying again.
oh yeah, and the strike missions aren't fun either... why aren't there nice linear dungeons anymore...? it's all about the grind it seems....