Ruining your expac

[Minjin.8259]

11 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I get this completely.  And I don't know how old you are, but it's been like this for a long long time.  Sure we have a War now, but I was alive during the cold war, and we had nuclear bomb raid drills in school.  And it felt like the world was ending. Some people felt like the world was ending when specific politicians were elected.  We've had fear of wars, and in my neighborhood gang violence, racial violence, crime...back in the 60s and 70s.  This isn't new to much of the world.  

 

In fact much of the world lives in poverty, and doesn't know where their next meal is coming from.

 

I agree it's a bad move, I just don't think it won't change, that's all.  Anet will see no one going for the turtle and they'll change it. But yes, it'll take time.  For the record, I react to major stuff going in in the world with a more measured response than some of my friends, because I've seen it all before...and the world didn't end.

I am old enough.  It hasn't felt this bad or this real for a while though.  But the last couple years it has felt like that.  I am just saying I think that is why people are reacting this way.  This meta hits too close to home.  The game is our escapism.  Things in the outside world are too far out of our control.  There is too much uncertainty.  So when we come here we want to feel like we have some sort of control over the outcome.  We also want to feel like we got our money's worth.  So that is why people are SO upset over how you get the turtle and feel like it's false advertising.  The reality is most of us won't use the turtle that much when we get it.  But you don't want to feel like you bought something that was misrepresented when inflation is out of control.  I agree with you, they will probably fix it.  But I just think the reaction isn't based on in game situations alone.  But right now taking people who feel like they are at the mercy of others and have no autonomous control in real life and putting them into a situation that exacerbates that feeling on the game is not a good selling technique, and not a good strategy to keep your customer base happy.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

People keep posting like the community is lurching wildly back and forth between what they are asking for, ignoring the fact that the community is not some monolithic, homogenous group.

Its disingenuous to say the community keeps asking for things and then the community then complains when they are given what they ask for. 
 

The truth is that there are different groups asking for different things. ANet is the one who has, since the very early days, been swinging back and forth with their design strategies between these groups’ desires. When one is being designed for, another complains, and back and forth it goes.

This needs to be pinned to the beginning of every thread on this forum.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Jilora.9524 said:

I believe you. I'm saying your beef was weaker then this one. Players have refunded and quit over this or at least say they have. This is way worse to the players that are more casual having to fail and lose 2h everytime and hope to get lucky or carried or a lil of both. The zone meta achieve vs the main mount in an expansion isn't even a comparison

My argument isn't they don't have a beef. My argument is it'll be fixed.

[Salt Mode.3780]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:54 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

Just because you've complained about something, doesn't mean it immediately needs to be changed. They'll look at the data and implement changes as needed, not sure why some people are so stressed out about it.

PFTTT YEA SURE cuz class balancing data wasnt enough on 4 betas and upon release STILL have things that they didn't fix on the first beta LOL.

[Ophelia.4195]

On 3/5/2022 at 5:08 PM, moonboi.1764 said:

It’s not just an event. It’s a major selling point, the turtle. You push your game for new players and say, come get your turtle and then slap the average player with….sorry, no turtle for you. Got ya. That’s the problem. 

Id like to think most of us didnt buy the game just for the turtle.

[Caitybee.3614]

55 minutes ago, Ophelia.4195 said:

Id like to think most of us didnt buy the game just for the turtle.

I got it for the story, but everything else was a bonus and I do really want the turtle eventually to complete the mount collection and use any skins they make.

[Gibson.4036]

My son and I got EOD primarily for new story and new zones.

My 13 year old daughter bought it last weekend right before launch. Her reason, “The jade bot and the turtle.”

I can probably run the meta until I get lucky, and maybe get into a group for the strike.

Its highly unlikely she will.

If ArenaNet hadn’t been deceptive about what it would take to get the turtle, I would have made sure she knew she was unlikely to get it before she spent her money on it.

Here’s hoping they reconsider and back up what they told us. “On par with unlocking roller beetle”.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Gorem.8104]

3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

My son and I got EOD primarily for new story and new zones.

My 13 year old daughter bought it last weekend right before launch. Her reason, “The jade bot and the turtle.”

I can probably run the meta until I get lucky, and maybe get into a group for the strike.

Its highly unlikely she will.

If ArenaNet hadn’t been deceptive about what it would take to get the turtle, I would have made sure she knew she was unlikely to get it before she spent her money on it.

Here’s hoping they reconsider and back up what they told us. “On par with unlocking roller beetle”.

I honestly love that quote now "Just like the Roller beetle guys and gals!" lol. 
If only they'd made it like the Griffon, that it was a secret mount we had no idea about and then could hype up after the fact. (but then again, if we didn't know about the turtle they'd have made less sales as it was hyped up so much, and if we didn't know how to get it, the meta would be dead already) 

[Nightgunner.2896]

4 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Here’s hoping they reconsider and back up what they told us. “On par with unlocking roller beetle”.

The turtle was easier for me to unlock than the roller beetle. Most of the collection requirements were just giving a vendor items I already had on-hand. There weren't any scavenger hunts where I had to find a specific unlabelled rock in a giant desert, and all of the bosses I had to kill were just a matter of asking people in the area to fight with me.

 

(This is after the Dragon's End changes a few days ago.)

[ProtoGunner.4953]

y0 guys chill, TAngled Depths was the same and ppl complained. In a few weeks they will tone it down and/or ppl get better and there's no problem. As usual this forum is a parallel world where 90% are whining and the rest is just fine with the game. But I see the issues. 

[Zok.4956]

On 3/6/2022 at 7:46 AM, Vayne.8563 said:

I'm also saying I'm not sure it wasn't done on purpose, thus it wasn't a mistake.

A mistake is a mistake even if it was made on purpose.

[Vayne.8563]

24 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

A mistake is a mistake even if it was made on purpose.

There are many things I don't like that aren't mistakes.  It may, over time, prove to be a huge mistake, but you can only think it's a mistake. I've always thought adding raids to this game was a mistake but it's not an objective mistake, it's just my opinion. Other people have different opinions. 

 

There's a thread on reddit with 814 upvotes calling the meta the best meta in the game, so clearly not everyone agrees it's a mistake.

[Erise.5614]

5 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

There are many things I don't like that aren't mistakes.  It may, over time, prove to be a huge mistake, but you can only think it's a mistake. I've always thought adding raids to this game was a mistake but it's not an objective mistake, it's just my opinion. Other people have different opinions. 

 

There's a thread on reddit with 814 upvotes calling the meta the best meta in the game, so clearly not everyone agrees it's a mistake.

And some of the highest vote comments on these threads are about how it's broken in one way or another.

There isn't precise agreement over what is broken. Is it boss attack RNG, duration, DPS / boon / subgroup requirements or something else.

But there is very wide agreement that something very important ain't right. 

It is beautiful and the mechanics are nice. It just turns sour real slow as you waste hour 20 on trying to succeed. 

[Gorem.8104]

19 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

There are many things I don't like that aren't mistakes.  It may, over time, prove to be a huge mistake, but you can only think it's a mistake. I've always thought adding raids to this game was a mistake but it's not an objective mistake, it's just my opinion. Other people have different opinions. 

 

There's a thread on reddit with 814 upvotes calling the meta the best meta in the game, so clearly not everyone agrees it's a mistake.

Imagine quoting Reddit, lol. Just play the game and you can see, though most have left already. Must be thousands of players waiting for Anet for change the meta now. The balls in Anet's court, if they don't change it, EoD's a dead expansion. If they do change it, then at least we've only had to suffer their un-excusable mistake for 2 weeks. They purposely launched this meta with it being a non-consensual raid in mind that only the lucky or 1% could accomplish, it was their choice to do this. And it was a bad choice for the hardcore casual game GW2 has always been. 

Raids are instanced content for the people who want to do them, and it should have always stayed that way. They did it right at least with IBS that DS had both a Public and Private version AND was instanced content that you had also done in the story. Imagine if we did this in the story and got the Turtle mount that way? But no, Anet decided to make it locked behind a forced raid onto the entire games population on purpose. It makes no sense. It really just makes no sense why they choose this path and then pushed out an update that doesn't help. 

 

You hook people into a new game with their first experiences.  If you make players angry and they leave, their word of mouth now becomes "do not play this game". Its always a bad thing when people quit over decisions made by the games dev team, not quitting because this is a casual game that allows you to start playing or stop playing whenever you feel like it. If Anet doesn't change the meta and the zone dies, that essentially will lock out any new player from ever getting the Turtle, ever again. 

[Zok.4956]

53 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

There are many things I don't like that aren't mistakes.  It may, over time, prove to be a huge mistake, but you can only think it's a mistake. I've always thought adding raids to this game was a mistake but it's not an objective mistake, it's just my opinion. Other people have different opinions. 

Sure. It is totally Ok if different players have different opinions and like/dislike different things.

But if a squad of 50 experienced raid players (in a raid ready group setup) that also did the fight several times and know it quite well and who do not screw up, still have a high chance of failing, something is wrong. If the fight mechanics are executed well from the squad and it still can happen, that the boss can not be damaged in total for 5-6 minutes out of the maximum 20 minutes of the fight just because of pure RND it means something is wrong. Some RND can spice up a fight. But it is too much actually, in this fight. If the mistake was made in the design phase or in the implementation and it is a software bug - it is a mistake.

It was also a mistake to announce the turtle mount as easy to get as the roller beetle when, objectively, it is not. Because it is locked behind this map meta. Anet even stated a few days ago in the forum, they wanted this map meta more challenging than every other open world map meta before.

Anet should have learned by now that there are different player types in GW2 that like and dislike different things in the game. I do remember the time when Colin Johanson tried to make the open world and story harder because he wanted to see this as a stepping stone for his PvP Esports ambitions with the game. It did not work very well back then. Anet should have learned from that mistake. And they have (for some time). But it seems they made, in a way, the same mistake again.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 Just play the game and you can see, though most have left already.

Citation needed. I didn't quote reddit, I pointed out that not everyone shares the same opinion. I run a guild of 400 or so people and I don't see anyone leaving. I see people playing in the new zones every day, most of them not having beat the meta and most of them not complaining and just taking their time.  That's my personal experience.  I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of people who are annoyed by this meta. But we don't really know how many people are enjoying it. The reddit post indicates some are.

 

I maintain it will be changed, but just this kind of hyperbolic fiction that most have already left is the very worst kind of confirmation bias. 

I see full zones all the time for doing that meta. Some have left will be accurate, but most? At least by showing a reddit post, I'm showing an indication that some people really do like that meta. Showing a counterpoint to what is going on here has value.

I play the game I don't think most people have left.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Vayne.8563

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Imagine quoting Reddit, lol. Just play the game and you can see, though most have left already. Must be thousands of players waiting for Anet for change the meta now.

 

Yes, thousands of players who somehow are casual enough to not care about performance or improving, yet somehow manage to rush through the entire expansion to the last map in a couple of days.

Actually "casual" players are still playing the story, exploring and most certainly not putting 15-20+ hours per week into an expansion.

The meta will become more of an issue when actually casual players and the majority of casual payers get there, which will happen in a few weeks for the bulk of players. Everyone else, sorry to break it to you: your not as "casual" as you might expect.

Which makes the day 1 complaints even more ironic. Imagine no-life rushing an expansion, then complaining that it's not "casual" friendly enough. Mind = blown.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[elrin.4750]

Unfortunately, Anet does not care much if people complain or leave. See, as long as some people enjoy whatever it is they are putting out, then that's what matters. The casuals are probably a major annoyance to them. I mean the toxic players love the meta, so Anet (in their point of view) did it correctly. It's the casuals who are wrong  and Anet would probably be happy if they all go away 😄

[Borked.6824]

4 minutes ago, elrin.4750 said:

Unfortunately, Anet does not care much if people complain or leave. See, as long as some people enjoy whatever it is they are putting out, then that's what matters. The casuals are probably a major annoyance to them. I mean the toxic players love the meta, so Anet (in their point of view) did it correctly. It's the casuals who are wrong  and Anet would probably be happy if they all go away 😄

Or..."God loves you and wants what's best for you."  It's not hard to recognize that people really don't know what they want or what they're capable of.  That's why we should firmly "listen" to what Anet is trying to tell us, at least until it's clear we're swimming against the current.

[Sobx.1758]

16 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

PFTTT YEA SURE cuz class balancing data wasnt enough on 4 betas and upon release STILL have things that they didn't fix on the first beta LOL.

Are you interested in responding to anything I wrote? Because if not, then there's no reason to quote my post.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Yes, thousands of players who somehow are casual enough to not care about performance or improving, yet somehow manage to rush through the entire expansion to the last map in a couple of days.

Yup, exactly what I've also pointed at: people proclaiming they're extremely casual complaining about not being able to unlock everything on the 3rd-5th day after the expansion's release. Trying to use "it's for the [casual] people!" type of argumentation seems to be the staple argumentation attempt here and as in most cases like this, it just seems dishonest.

Another thing is trying to say that "even people playing raids had to try a few times" -of course they did, new content is new for everyone. If it's not a faceroll-level type of gameplay, most people won't and probably shouldn't automatically complete it on the first blind playthrough unless someone's goal is to reskin old content and pretend it's new.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sigerk.2897]

Some people need to take a step back.

It just released. Why does it seem like people want it all now? 

Did the meta a few times now, and I agree the final part needs some adjusting, or there's something everyone is overlooking. But it seems there's no patience to figure this out. Everytime I tried it, the damage was fine, and it failed because of the back and forth. And that is frustrating yes. But sheesh, its a game. Some of you on here are acting like it murdered your first-born or something. Not everything is or should be catered to your specific needs. If something doesn't work out like you want it, try something else before screaming bloody murder.  

I get wanting to relax after a long day at work or whatever got you tired. But maybe don't confuse not clearing a new meta within the first days of a launch with it being unplayable. Give it time so the community can figure out mechanics, a lot of it has already been figured out, maybe not everything yet. And give the devs time to assess and respond appropriately, so we don't get knee-jerk reactions that serve no one. There's plenty of other things to do, and if your only reason is to get the turtle then I hope they remove the collection instead of over-nerfing it for people who won't bother once they got their turtle. 

[DarcShriek.5829]

On 3/4/2022 at 10:41 PM, moonboi.1764 said:

First, thank you for an amazing expac but your rng kitten that is the dragon end meta is going to send people fleeing from your game. 

I’ve convinced friends to come back, only to have them leave the game due to utter frustration with this meta. Yes it’s the end but your going to ruin what good you have because you refuse to tune your meta. 
You need to remember who is playing your game. Making raid level for an open map meta is not going to work for the majority of your players. I can’t keep defending this expac/game if you are going to basically keep your major selling point of this expac locked up for raiders only. 
 

for the record, I have the turtle but got it on pure luck with break bars and jade wp cheat with 2 seconds left, Wednesday. On the other hand, I’ve watched my partner struggle all week and 33 tries later, still nothing. 
 

There is a difference between challenging and obnoxious. Obnoxious is not good game design or good game play. Fix it while you still have players. 

It took you 4 days to come to the conclusion that Anet refuses to nerf the final meta, that's very patient of you.  Of course, it may have been better to give anet a little more time to collect the necessary data to determine what, if anything is wrong with the meta.  I'm not too worried about it myself.  It's a turtle mount  that I probably won't use much anyways.  In the meantime I'm enjoying myself playing other parts of GW2.  It's a pretty big game and this meta and the turtle is such a small part of it.  I figure in a couple weeks things will get worked out.  I've been here 9 years, I figure I'll be here a while.  I have time.

[ctorrezan.3498]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:41 AM, moonboi.1764 said:

First, thank you for an amazing expac but your rng kitten that is the dragon end meta is going to send people fleeing from your game. 

I’ve convinced friends to come back, only to have them leave the game due to utter frustration with this meta. Yes it’s the end but your going to ruin what good you have because you refuse to tune your meta. 
You need to remember who is playing your game. Making raid level for an open map meta is not going to work for the majority of your players. I can’t keep defending this expac/game if you are going to basically keep your major selling point of this expac locked up for raiders only. 
 

for the record, I have the turtle but got it on pure luck with break bars and jade wp cheat with 2 seconds left, Wednesday. On the other hand, I’ve watched my partner struggle all week and 33 tries later, still nothing. 
 

There is a difference between challenging and obnoxious. Obnoxious is not good game design or good game play. Fix it while you still have players. 

I agree with you, the exp is amazing, the maps, the sound, the history, the characters, ANet really did a great work on it (I wanted a home point in New Kaineng), but the way the meta was programmed is frustrating, the RNG plus tight time is killing it, and to be clear, I'm not talking about a raid, strike mission or fractal, we are talking about an event in open world in which I think we shouldn't even have requirements for groups with specific classes and builds, this event should be for anyone who wants to participate, even if the person was walking around the map and yes, we should have to do mechanics and not just smash a single key, but neither should we be punished by rng. The way it was now I'll only complete it and I sure won't be back anytime soon, I believe a lot of people will do the same and what we will have? An empty map and new players who won't even be able to join the fight either due to the lack of other players or the demands imposed by the existing groups, with fewer people doing a 2h event, the greater the demands to be sure of success.

Edited March 7, 2022 by ctorrezan.3498

[Erise.5614]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yup, exactly what I've also pointed at: people proclaiming they're extremely casual complaining about not being able to unlock everything on the 3rd-5th day after the expansion's release. Trying to use "it's for the [casual] people!" type of argumentation seems to be the staple argumentation attempt here and as in most cases like this, it just seems dishonest.

Another thing is trying to say that "even people playing raids had to try a few times" -of course they did, new content is new for everyone. If it's not a faceroll-level type of gameplay, most people won't and probably shouldn't automatically complete it on the first blind playthrough unless someone's goal is to reskin old content and pretend it's new.

Because we were excited and took holidays in order to fully dive in and immerse ourselves in the new content. 

Also, variety and difficulty are two different things. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Erise.5614