Most players don't know how much dps they do

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, Shaaba.5672 said:

Crowd Control (CC) has been the terminology forever across many games and I first came across the term playing D&D. So yeah, there probably is a better way to describe it for new players, but I think CC is just here to stay. People explaining fights and mechanics should not assume that everyone knows the gaming lingo. In the heat of the battle, CC is fine - prior to the battle is when CC should be defined.

Knockbacks/stuns/pushes seems to get more of a reaction. In Octovine South, people will say to push the bomb.

And yea, not everyone may understand gaming lingo. When I was much younger, I quite misunderstood what "MF" meant; I didn't know what magic find was xD

 

38 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

May be with some they know what it means, but they don't know which if their abilities count toward CC for breakbars. This is the first MMO I've played in memory where CC is so intermixed with damage abilities, it's kind of confusing. I see they do have a "Defiance Break" thing in the tooltip now, not sure if that was always there, but that might be something to tell people to look for on their abilities.

Also confusing because some abilities have uses outside of purely CC. Example: Warhorn lightning ele ability Cyclone. It can be used for Defiance Break contribution, for pulling enemies toward its location if they don't have defiance (but you can't really control where it goes), or used for Swiftness if you use it and run in its path. Oh and to make matters more confusing, because you can't really control where it goes, it's only really reliable as a Defiance Break if you're up close to the target to ensure it'll get a hit on them.

Not all CC abilities are that overloaded with complexity and context, but just to put in perspective where some of the confusion may be coming from.

They have updated the skill tooltips to display break bar damage. Of course that requires people to read and I am pretty bad at that myself. Outside of my main class (Guard), sometimes I don't know what skills do sometime , even ones I've played hundreds of hours on.

I feel like the story instance to enter EOD should have required to break a bar, but alas.

In all fairness, there's a lot of crap that happens in this game, and sometimes it's very hard to tell what's even going on if it's your first time here. Like those instant death laser that makes you hide behind rocks.

It can be a very punishing game sometimes.

Edited March 9, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Rasimir.6239]

5 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I feel like the story instance to enter EOD should have required to break a bar, but alas.

Doing the breakbar tutorial at the training ground is a mandatory part of the (early) EoD story.

[Mell.4873]

You know what it isnt only the dps that is the problem is the trinity that isn't well defined and not being explicit enough for players. 

I mean I see people leveling ranger to play druid only to realise it is not the most ideal endgame healer(maybe after spirit rework). 

While classes like staff mirage don't get recognised as a support since it also has alot of dps. While being on of the best open world supports since it has the highest aegis output, a aoe instant resurrection and instant heals with mantras.

[ArchonWing.9480]

10 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Doing the breakbar tutorial at the training ground is a mandatory part of the (early) EoD story.

Oh, I only did enough to get to fishing so far. 😉

 

There was also an event as soon as you enter the first map. I thought that was pretty funny in a good way.

Edited March 9, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Cynder.2509]

On 3/7/2022 at 5:44 PM, Khisanth.2948 said:

Meanwhile some people think the numbers that pop up on their screen is their DPS ...

Yeah. That's why everyone should ahve ArcDPS installed instead. 

 

[Solvar.7953]

I thought that the game should not in the skill icons themselves that they are CC skills.  Maybe they could be a different color or have a symbol over them.

Even better is that when a breakbar shows up that needs CC skills that it highlights those skills in some way, to give a indication to the player which skills are CC.

This is more relevant for those of us that play multiple characters.  Since one can not rebind weapon skills, for one class/weapon, the CC skill might be 2, and for another, it could be 4, etc.  While it may be reasonable to ask the players to familiarize themselves with the characters particular skills, at the same time, most people just want to hop into what is going on.  If there is a nearby major boss battle, I'm more likely to head there than try to figure out which skill does what.

 

[fixit.7189]

17 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Doing the breakbar tutorial at the training ground is a mandatory part of the (early) EoD story.

on my ele i had to have someone else help break the bar for me. people act like every prof has tons of powerful CC breaks available when some do not.

[Zacchary.6183]

18 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Doing the breakbar tutorial at the training ground is a mandatory part of the (early) EoD story.

But it doesn't help you understand why its important.

[mindcircus.1506]

3 hours ago, fixit.7189 said:

on my ele i had to have someone else help break the bar for me. people act like every prof has tons of powerful CC breaks available when some do not.

Ele has a few very potent ones. It may not be Rev or Mesmer, but a well built ele should have no issues with that tutorial.
If you want some suggestions, speak up. There are a few people around who can help.

[wayneericgouin.9371]

Just push all your skills off cool down and you're doing the max dps you can do 😄

[titje.2745]

6 hours ago, fixit.7189 said:

on my ele i had to have someone else help break the bar for me. people act like every prof has tons of powerful CC breaks available when some do not.

I was not able to do the combo one with my scourge. I was forced to get the harbinger spec. 
 

now I do training grounds daily because of the 20% xp buff for all sources. For nearly 5 hours. And the heart vendor also sells an extra xp boost for kills. 

[Puck.3697]

On 3/6/2022 at 9:19 PM, Custodio.6134 said:

tbh: that feature is already half implemented. 
ever heard of special forces training area? the golem in there literally outputs your dps into your chat, and you can just open a private raid squad to go in and test your rotation. even with the option to enable support buffs etc to simulate a raid setup. 

yes, you cannot track your damage outside of there without third-party addons, BUT it´s not like you have ZERO options to check if you deal damage

The problem with the golem is. 

It stands still there are no mechanics and it doesn't judge a live fight. 

If your standing still with 0 other worry you can click your rotation on most proffessions and get within 10% of the top benchmark. 

New or inexperienced players lose tons of uptime on a boss. So even if they do 30k on golem they may only do 17k in a real situation fully booned. 

Golem actually is a new player trap. 

As the only in-game source of a DPS meter people just assume their replicating their results on the golem to a real fight and due to that they don't bother improving further. 

[The Boz.2038]

36 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

It stands still there are no mechanics and it doesn't judge a live fight. 

This is the exact point. Provide a static target so that nominal performance could be judged on a level playing field between all classes. 

[Taclism.2406]

Theres pro and cons with DPS meters
Pro is you know when you suck and if you'd aim for more adapted gear / work on your spell rotation
Cons is everyone knows when you suck and theres always toxicity surrounding numbers

I don't buy the "DPS meter isnt important" mentality tho. Information always is useful, and the fact they clarified what spell does CC (well on some of them ...) goes that way. People's willingness to care about that information is another story

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, titje.2745 said:

I was not able to do the combo one with my scourge. I was forced to get the harbinger spec. 
 

now I do training grounds daily because of the 20% xp buff for all sources. For nearly 5 hours. And the heart vendor also sells an extra xp boost for kills. 

Well you could have with your scourge if you just equiped a staff.

[Rasimir.6239]

32 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Theres pro and cons with DPS meters
Pro is you know when you suck and if you'd aim for more adapted gear / work on your spell rotation
Cons is everyone knows when you suck and theres always toxicity surrounding numbers

There's also the fact that a lot of people tend to see dps numbers as the be all, end all, totally ignoring all of the other contributions to a successful fight, e.g. the person that boosts the damage done by 5/10 people by giving boons, or the one taking care of a mechanic that tanks their personal dps but is crucial to the encounter. It's hard to correctly quantify fight contributions, especially in mechanically complex, non-organised encounters.

 

I've been playing games with dps meters before, and found an unfortunate number of players that would concentrate on maxing their individual dps in team encounters to the detriment of the whole team. If everyone would recognise the limitations of dps meters (which don't exist in a void) and use that information responsibly, then I'd be all for it, but experrience has shown again and again that too many people don't do this.

[The Boz.2038]

45 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Pro is you know when you suck and if you'd aim for more adapted gear / work on your spell rotation
Cons is everyone knows when you suck and theres always toxicity surrounding numbers

A built-in DPS meter doesn't need to expose your performance to others around you. 
Additionally, it would lead to even less toxicity, as it would give you an opportunity to improve, while denying others the opportunity to flame you or even mind your presence without informing you.

[kharmin.7683]

58 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

A built-in DPS meter doesn't need to expose your performance to others around you. 
Additionally, it would lead to even less toxicity, as it would give you an opportunity to improve, while denying others the opportunity to flame you or even mind your presence without informing you.

True, but many who were advocating for in-game DPS meters in previous threads want to see everyone's performance.  When some suggested that the meter only report to the user, they were ridiculed for such a suggestion as being useless.

[The Boz.2038]

Those many don't have to be listened to. There is nothing in their argument that makes them more right. There is a lot in GW2's design philosophy so far that can easily let you see that a DPS meter for yourself only fits better into it than one that exposes you to others.

[kharmin.7683]

6 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Those many don't have to be listened to. There is nothing in their argument that makes them more right. There is a lot in GW2's design philosophy so far that can easily let you see that a DPS meter for yourself only fits better into it than one that exposes you to others.

I agree.  I don't use ARC and probably wouldn't use any in-game meter that reports to other players, but I might look at my own meter from time to time.  I've looked at the combat logs when tinkering with the new especs, but will probably ignore that once I've found builds that I enjoy.

[Dovienya.6597]

I don't want to be elite or the best, I just want to keep improving. I would love to see this feature implemented in a way that allows for people who don't want the meter to entirely disable it.

 

 

[ens.9854]

A good open world build and gearset is very different from a DPS build and gearset. How many players are carrying around a second set of gear, set of scholar runes, force sigil'd weapons (or condi equivalents), meta consumables and have a practiced DPS build template lying around for every character they play?

 

Too much of this stacks multiplicatively so even missing just 1 piece of the puzzle can drop your DPS by thousands... It's actually quite unintuitive even if you can see DPS. Many times I've learned a rotation in <10 minutes but stare at a stat screen for ages wondering where TF I'm missing 400 stats from.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 3/9/2022 at 11:53 AM, Rasimir.6239 said:

Doing the breakbar tutorial at the training ground is a mandatory part of the (early) EoD story.

Oh, yeah, that one. Tried it, kept pressing keys at random and i've been told that i have succeeded. If not for the fact that i actually know what cc and breakbars are, i'd have no idea what has actually happened. But hey, now i know that hitting ranger LB 4 whenever it is off cooldown is always a good idea.

[Tails.9372]

6 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Cons is everyone knows when you suck and theres always toxicity surrounding numbers

But the "toxicity" doesn't come from the numbers. It's born from the frustration of failure / the group performance not being as "smooth" as expected. All a DPS meter really does is shine a light on where the actual "lack of performance" comes from. Without it you get into situations where people throw their blame around based purely on perception and guesswork e.g. someone blaming another player for leeching an OW event even though that player might be running an AA based LI build that actually does 10k dps.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Ithilwen.1529]

How can I create a raid squad of one? I tried to test my DPS and couldn't enter the training area.