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Let's get some Build Diversity.


DanAlcedo.3281

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Elementalist. 

  • Tempest. Just overall buff it to compete with Firebrand. 
  • Weaver. Literally just buff staff dmg. Weaver doesn't have any utility. Let it do big ouch. 💥

Mesmer.

  • New E spec with Ground Targeted Shatters. Mesmer right part of the bar was always stacked. Let's put some omph on the left. 

Necro. 

  • It's actually OK. Just never ever buff it again. 

Ranger. 

  • It's Sooooo close to greatness it hurts. Give Soulbeast a good weapon. Thats all it needs.😭

Thief. 

  • We have Specter now. Let keep it relevant. 

Engineer.

  • Nerf Support on Scrapper. 

Revenant. 

  • Fix Hammer. 🔨
  • Make Ventari great. 

Guardian. 

  • Firebrand is actually OK. It's just every single other support is 🤮

Warrior. 

  • How about a Support E Spec next time? 😘

 

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What you don't like shout bladesworn memes or support spellbreaker? /s

In all seriousness of all those you listed the only thing I would say is nerfing scrapper a bit (superspeed mainly , med blaster scaling for added boons, quickness output on gyros needs a WVW split) is the way to go. Having a skill do over 3 things that all are potent is balance defining.

Thief isn't useless it's just not meta, specter has a 3 target shroud (5 target on Grasping Shroud 3s cooldown #2 skill and a large 2.0 coefficient on Eternal Night melee ranged) and sword mainhand unlike staff daredevil.

Untamed could use stow pet whenever in unleash ranger state. Currently it is what is holding it back in organized play, where it could at least sort of fill the spellbreaker role.

Tempest really isn't that bad, if your group isn't that tightly stacked shout radius is large so you may get more clears than a  poorly played scrapper. Heals-wise it outheals firebrand. Staff on elementalist mainly lacks sustained DPS pressure on earth and air (the auto could be sped up or increased in damage even in PVE), technically speaking Ice Spike, Eruption, and chain lightning all do appreciable damage.

Virtuoso needs serious help with respect to dagger and bladesongs all being projectile. I reflected 10K bladesong the other day. However, chrono is one of the parts of the meta right now and is a premier boon strip slot as well as veil , null field, illusion of life, and portal provider.

Revenant hammer is actually useful in WVW still, it just isn't as dominant as when it was 2s cooldown and didn't have a huge rectangle tell with a delay.

Firebrand could use mantra of solace heal increased now that it doesn't apply aegis. It's a mainstay similar to necro all the way back to G.W.E.N. days.

Edited by Infusion.7149
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1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Tempest. Just overall buff it to compete with Firebrand. 

No. Firebrand is blatantly overpowered. Tempest needs zero buffs, FB(aegis/stab/reso) and scrapper need to be nerfed.

  

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Ranger. 

  • It's Sooooo close to greatness it hurts. Give Soulbeast a good weapon. Thats all it needs.😭

Thief. 

  • We have Specter now. Let keep it relevant. 

Both these classes are gods of roaming.

Edited by Kozumi.5816
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3 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Elementalist. 

  • Tempest. Just overall buff it to compete with Firebrand. 
  • Weaver. Literally just buff staff dmg. Weaver doesn't have any utility. Let it do big ouch. 💥

Mesmer.

  • New E spec with Ground Targeted Shatters. Mesmer right part of the bar was always stacked. Let's put some omph on the left. 

Necro. 

  • It's actually OK. Just never ever buff it again. 

Ranger. 

  • It's Sooooo close to greatness it hurts. Give Soulbeast a good weapon. Thats all it needs.😭

Thief. 

  • We have Specter now. Let keep it relevant. 

Engineer.

  • Nerf Support on Scrapper. 

Revenant. 

  • Fix Hammer. 🔨
  • Make Ventari great. 

Guardian. 

  • Firebrand is actually OK. It's just every single other support is 🤮

Warrior. 

  • How about a Support E Spec next time? 😘

 

Elementalist - Remove unique nerfs like -10% per hit on some skills, add F5 skill UNIQUE to Core only.
Tempest - Give it access to Quickness via traits on Overloads or something.
Weaver - Give a real healing skill as it doesn't have one since release. 
Catalyst - Delete it and start from scratch.
For other stuff though, A-net need to actually clearly define what each spec is supposed to be. Firebrand needs a complete rework or uber nerfs like locking access to Tomes behind Grandmaster Traits, it does too much. Core Guardian has identity crisis because of Firebrand in long run, DH is more or less fine as full DPS spec, Willbender same like core has identity crisis. Mesmer needs some shaves in sustain departament on specific builds, Chronomancer needs it's utility buffs as a support and some damage nerfs, Mirage needs some mechanic fixes and new F1-F4 skills as per protocol, dunno about Virtuoso, probably it has problem with dagger mechanic. In case of Necromancer, if core is supposed to be "tanky" sustainy build, why it deals that much damage via condies? Reaper is more or less fine as a spec beside most shouts being weak af. Scourge is "support" so why does it deal damage as well? Harbinger is big ? since it competes with both Reaper and Scourge at the same time. Ranger is pretty much not existing at this point, since Soulbeast is simply Core 2.0 and fights for the same position as damage dealer, still kinda wonder why they gave that spec "share stances" as it's uber selfish sustainy build in the first place... Druid also need a full rework, it's neither damage or support with it's kit. Untamed feels like need rework of it's mechanic, like why F5 doesn't work as some sort of "you weaponswap to hammer with skills based on your actual pet family" ? This way it class mechanic wouldn't be based on just single weapon... It's really questionable e-spec. 
List can keep going for all classes...

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1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:


Catalyst - Delete it and start from scratch.
 

As a non-Ele main, I still enjoy the idea of the class. I really was waiting for warrior, thief and ele with this expac.

So like, to me Cata looks bad. Imagine that. I heard people say remove F5 and put all the Hammer 3 Orbs every time you enter an attunement as a buff and special attunement function with a small ball like the mesmer clones with different color over the attunement. As for my idea, once someone attunes to all 4 elements, they gain access to the F5 Sphere and merge all the elements at once and clicking F5 places down a field and you decide on the fly with your attunement what field it can be, like swaping attu swaps the field without losing it, till the sphere is gone. And then all over again. I dunno, I personally was really looking forward to a new way of managing elements but oh well...a dissappointement .

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@Kozumi.5816 resolution is a useless boon, even if they'd remove it from any class, it wouldn't change anything lmfao

 

it has not a lot of specs-specific aegis... so idk what ur crying about.

 

the stab on it is heavily necessary for the team. brainded cc spam is yet around everywhere in Wvw ... so yeah, without aoe stab providers, the gamemode would be hell

 

@DanAlcedo.3281 yeah u disqualified anything you say by thinking that staff weaver needs dmgbuffs.

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10 hours ago, Acyk.9671 said:

Tempest is fine overall, weaver damage too. If buffs, they gotta be small.

They are making us suffer on purpose...

Also Changing how pet works so we can customize it is necessary at this point. Increasing CA generation would also be nice.

Mostly the heal and superspeed.

Still a terrain problem?

 

The only aegis FB has nowadays comes from F3 chapter 5. 

Aegis is on core guard mace and shield  as well as "Advance" if you run that.

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I really can't take OP seriously.

Elementalist needs buffs? In which parallel reality? In which world the staff has low damage? That's not what my DPS log says.

Firebrand providing aegis+healing+stability+12 stacks of might while also having recurrent projectile hate and being the pillar of the current boon stack meta is ok?

Scrapper support needs a nerf, and not the power variant able to stack as many boons as possible, stealth and oneshot you from nowhere while also having recurrent (if not permanent) superspeed, stability, high projectile hate and both ranged and melee pressure?

Revenant hammer, being one of the dominant weapons of zerg gameplay needs to be fixed?

Prior to the expansion I played a lot of Soulbeast, I wouldn't say is not great. Quite the opposite, unless you exclusively talk about Zerg play, in which case I simply don't understand the entirety of your post and your rating of the classes. If any, leave Soulbeast as it is now and put some work on Untamed and the pet mechanic.

Edited by Telgum.6071
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yeah my later dps logs also had our best weaver at 9k-7k damage per second. that's like 6-8k dmg more than most randoms do before they die...

on the long run, often dh and herald can compete and outdps it, but good weavers can yet do massive damage with their casts. i don't really feel it needs a buff

 

@Telgum.6071 no, the power scrapper could use a nerf tbh. its needed as a support, but nobody needs the selifsh nade/mortarmemes of scrapper in wvw

 

again, FB is not only okay, its absolutely necessary. bad firebrands are at the edge to be useless anyways. always been.  supports are usually not carrying anything if they're not experts on the class, and most of them are far from that. random spamming and having nothing to click when u'd need it is a major issue on them and very present

 

about rev hammer idk, maybe he means some pathing on hammer two. hammer had its pathing issues since a long time. it was really good in 2019 but then anet made changes and messed it up a lot.

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On 3/28/2022 at 5:37 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Elementalist. 

  • Tempest. Just overall buff it to compete with Firebrand. 
  • Weaver. Literally just buff staff dmg. Weaver doesn't have any utility. Let it do big ouch. 💥

Mesmer.

  • New E spec with Ground Targeted Shatters. Mesmer right part of the bar was always stacked. Let's put some omph on the left. 

Necro. 

  • It's actually OK. Just never ever buff it again. 

Ranger. 

  • It's Sooooo close to greatness it hurts. Give Soulbeast a good weapon. Thats all it needs.😭

Thief. 

  • We have Specter now. Let keep it relevant. 

Engineer.

  • Nerf Support on Scrapper. 

Revenant. 

  • Fix Hammer. 🔨
  • Make Ventari great. 

Guardian. 

  • Firebrand is actually OK. It's just every single other support is 🤮

Warrior. 

  • How about a Support E Spec next time? 😘

 

As far as ranger is concerned soulbeast is good, it might need a bit of a dmg buff to keep on with other dps clases but it has good dmg good cc and can bring spirits and leader of the pack, overall its pretty good, untamed on the other side needs something, anything either more dmg (power or even condi) or maybe something more unique.

thief is good as far as i know the same goes for engi necro and guardian.

Mesmer is good the new mesmer is already very unique and diferent from other mesmer elites and also has good dmg and cc.

Revenant... id like it deleted and remade from 0 but as thats not posible ill say one thing, diversity is not that every elite can do everything in a mediocre and undesiable way, for me herald should be made a great boon dps elite, its not bad now and with druid spirita nerf in summer i hope to see it in a better light, renegade is already the ultimate revenant, it is a better power boon than herald, has good condi dps(even when nerfed coz yes the sigils stuff was a nerf not a bug fix were not stupid,) renegade also is a better power dps than vindi because the dmg diference is not that much but it brings lots more utility with kalla and just 2 swords than vindi with 3 legends and gs, sw/sw (something id like anet to notice, because gs is just swords but needs huge area enemies, they are fixed on making rev a titan slayer or something but most raid bosses are not big)

as for vindi, well herald is better healer because it at least brings boons consistently and renegade is better in power, condi and even hibrid dps sooo not much point in exiating even, ah also sry but am i the only one that feels willbender is a vindicator but much better overall and less stressing and burdensome to play? ill leave it at that.

warrior... i hope when summer comes and banners get their remake they will bring boons and warr will have something out of berserker, berserker and banner berserker XD

as for ele, i almost never use it, as i dont know better not to talk but its good to see someone getting buffed after an absurd nerf(absurd because when you balance youre suposed to... you know find a BALANCE, i mean if something is too high and something too low you balance bringing dow one thing and up the other, just taking one class from heaven and into hell isnt balancing its just being absurd, so good to see them taking a step back.

out of that PLEASE ANET please, if you see complaints, even if you cant balance it right at the moment at least say something, like : we have seen the complaints, well look into it, test it and solve the things we want to solve, at least that would be something, or maybe a post with an update each 2 weeks about how balance team is looking at things and what theyre working in.

 

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this thread was started in the Wvw section and therefore its highly misleading now

 

FB is necessary to stay as unnerfed as possible to counter braindead cc+condispam in Wvw largescale and medium scale

 

willbender is useless in wvw, dh still meta (since feb20 basically), core guard still fine i guess

 

all new classes are pretty much useless in wvw.

 

harbinger can in less heavy fight have similar roles as herald

 

new elementalist specs has maybe nieche potential for a very low demand. it seems to be a okayish healer/cleanser bc it got scrapperfield with the latest update or sth alike. yet, scrapper has quickness stealth cleanse heal superspeed. ele doesn't so cannot replace it. if scrapper gets overnerfed, we will just run 2 scrappers per party, gg anet

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To get diversity they need to bring other sources of boons on a similar level. Right now Quickfirebrand is far superior too other quickenss sources (like speed-raiding guilds show also this patch that Firebrand is the King of Quickness)  https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/tund1q/eod_record_mca_edition/

As long as single classes remain strictly better than all other choices (which is a pity since quick-Harbinger is so much fun)  there won't be much build diversity. In some groups you even get flamed when you want to play oither quickness-sources and get kicked for a qfb 😞 

 

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On 4/1/2022 at 10:44 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

Diversity in a system where people have the option to choose optimal solutions ... is a myth. 

A myth to the inexperienced or those pushing an agenda maybe. As a gaming vet and mmo vet since the 90s your wrong in that. The meta can easily be more diverse, also I challenge anyone who assumes that it can never be done, perhaps if balance was a key factor to begin with in more modern mmos it would not be so hard to balance today mind blown.

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59 minutes ago, Ryou.2398 said:

A myth to the inexperienced or those pushing an agenda maybe. As a gaming vet and mmo vet since the 90s your wrong in that. The meta can easily be more diverse, also I challenge anyone who assumes that it can never be done, perhaps if balance was a key factor to begin with in more modern mmos it would not be so hard to balance today mind blown.

You can debate with me all you like. What is relevant is what is real here. I guess the reality of GW2 isn't part of your reality then. Meta can be diverse? Maybe ... but it's not and never has been in GW2. Of course you don't ask yourself why, you just assume it's a mistake it's not. Already skipped a few steps to avoid the hard questions and answers you don't like right?

The only time we will get more diversity is when the PLAYERS recognize that the player is more important than the build. 

 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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41 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You can debate with me all you like. What is relevant is what is real here. I guess the reality of GW2 isn't part of your reality then. Meta can be diverse? Maybe ... but it's not and never has been in GW2. Of course you don't ask yourself why, you just assume it's a mistake it's not. Already skipped a few steps to avoid the hard questions and answers you don't like right?

The only time we will get more diversity is when the PLAYERS recognize that the player is more important than the build. 

 

Prove it, I have always cared about balance in all of my games, espieclally mmos, and I usually play atleast 3 or 4 classes in mmos.

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7 minutes ago, Ryou.2398 said:

Prove it, I have always cared about balance in all of my games, espieclally mmos, and I usually play atleast 3 or 4 classes in mmos.

Not sure what you are asking me to prove here. Prove you care about balance in your games? Um, OK ... proven I guess. I'm not questioning what you care about so ?

Here is the reality: if people want diversity, they simply need to play the game as it's intended. That's not some Anet 'changes' in the game to make for them. If people are claiming we don't have diversity, it's simply because of their perception and choices in how they play. The reason THEY will never have that diversity is because they don't understand it starts with THEM, not Anet. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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5 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Also, there is optimal, and there is optimal. The difference between competing choices could be smaller, which thus yields greater diversity in builds played at a higher level.

Smaller differences doesn't change the problem the OP is having because it's specific to PUGs. PUGs are going to take what they want, regardless of the size of the differences between optimal and not. The fix here is players making choices, not Anet wasting time making things more equivalent. 

The diversity is there, it's the player's choice to use it. Seems to me the only thing the OP wants is buffs and is justifying that through the idea of "MOAR DIVERCITIE"

Edited by Obtena.7952
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