I feel excluded from EoD because Soo Won meta event is too hard

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

I've finished this meta enough times yet I still find it stupid that ANet really couldn't be bothered to adjust something as simple as the Tail and CC Bar phase not overlapping one another. 

This Meta isn't "challenging", it's just a timewaster. Horrid RNG just makes it a whole lot worse when you can't even target Soo-Won cuz she's too busy dancing around with that terrible bite attack.

[Xerxez.7361]

32 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

I've finished this meta enough times yet I still find it stupid that ANet really couldn't be bothered to adjust something as simple as the Tail and CC Bar phase not overlapping one another. 

This Meta isn't "challenging", it's just a timewaster. Horrid RNG just makes it a whole lot worse when you can't even target Soo-Won cuz she's too busy dancing around with that terrible bite attack.

 

If you have enough DPS on the tail they never overlap the CC will come after the tail. Shows you what ANet expects players to be able to accomplish versus what the players normally accomplish.

[Taclism.2406]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:57 AM, Xerxez.7361 said:

I have my graphics at lowest and I still see all the Telegraphs.

If you always keep it that low, its normal you see it all, but if you change graphic options after the boss started, sometimes the new (lower rez) effect dont show up.

If you're gonna change settings, I advise doing it right after the 5 crystals (their colors are too similar in low settings anyway for first timers), it usually lets enough time for the game to "settle"
Yes it does sound bs, but whatever works.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[Silent.6137]

3 hours ago, yohoia.1850 said:

I absolutely hate this meta. I need to do it successfully once to get the turtle (tried twice today, but failed) but after that I will never, ever do it again. So many things going on at once, impossible to see the telegraphs and boom your dead. Two hours wasted, nothing gained. I usually love the metas in GW2 but this one is awful.

You do not need to do the meta to get the turtle since the update quite a whle ago. As for the AoEs, just pay attention to the major ones as has been described in this very thread. Those are big and prominent enough that it's impossible to miss. Just always be ready to run/dodge out of it.

[Cronospere.8143]

6 hours ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

 

If you have enough DPS on the tail they never overlap the CC will come after the tail. Shows you what ANet expects players to be able to accomplish versus what the players normally accomplish.

Could have been bad rng. But yesterday the tail phase started and directly the cc phase started. And this happend 3 times during the battle. It wasnt like this in the beginning where you actually had a few seconds to do either the cc phase or tail phase before the other started. 

 

[MonsterTeddy.6135]

17 hours ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

 

The Purple Indicator above your head is better to pay attention to, but as long as your in the middle of the group when it goes off your fairly safe.

I have not noticed any purple indicators yet. Might have been lost among all the clutter I need to pay attention for.

I'll keep an eye out for them from now. 🤔

Thanks!

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

3 hours ago, Cronospere.8143 said:

Could have been bad rng. But yesterday the tail phase started and directly the cc phase started. And this happend 3 times during the battle. It wasnt like this in the beginning where you actually had a few seconds to do either the cc phase or tail phase before the other started. 

 

Start of the fight, the RNG always favours CC bar before tail phase, any other parts will be heavily RNG dependent regardless of DPS. Based on what I've seen, if Soo-Won swaps sides more than twice, then Tail Phase easily overlaps with CC Bar, and one attack is almost non-existent which is her acid spit since she'll use her tail for bubbles and tsunamis instead. 

I'm mostly just observing how bad the design of the meta is at the point, I'm not really farming it for anything, just continuing observation. Every other element of the fight seems to work as well as they could now, but that CC Bar and Tail overlap along with constant side swapping that you can't target Soo-Won seems to be the main issue with this meta along with the massive flood of obnoxious void mobs 

[Hesione.9412]

On 4/9/2022 at 9:09 PM, MonsterTeddy.6135 said:

I have my graphics set to lowest as well.

Although I can see the telegraphs most of the time, there are times where the highlighted area of effect doesn't show up. So far, I've only noticed it going missing during the slam and that attack where the boss swings in front of her. As a regular comm, I've learned to pay attention to her model animations as well since the aoe and dialogue aren't always reliable (overlapping dialogue, missing aoe circles, etc), but I can understand why other ppl can't keep up if those telegraphs don't show up for them.

Also, the small aoe circles that appear before the ppl get caught in whirlpools are often easily missed among the mob clutter, especially if Thornhearts are up. >~>

 

And then when the whirlpools are right in front of you, even though you're not in one, or multiple people in bubbles are around you, but you're not in one. I can't see the ground. At these points all I can see are bubbles or whirlpools.

 

I've been in your runs, you're a very good comm. And if you're having some issues, then a bunch of the rest of us will be having worse.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Hesione.9412
Accidentally put my reply into the quote.

[GativideoVHS.4978]

Just keep trying, get stronger and prepare with an organized group, that's the fun part! And if you get frustrated, well that's life, don't try until you feel better. You can buy the egg anyway but stop asking to make the game easier because it ruins the fun of the challenge of achieving something!  

[The Boz.2038]

Welp.
Had my first fail since opening week last night.
Was doing map completion, saw a tag, it had 30 people in, joined it. I was on my soulbeast, so I posted that I got spotter, frost spirit, and OWP for organizing subgroups. Commander said he'll make subgroups closer to the meta start, unless I wanted to do it now. I declined, as I still had to get some events and buffs done. And then, at some point near the bridge, I just sort of noticed we were thrown into subgroups, but it was some cargo cult "I heard subgroups were a good thing so I made them" version. There was no rhyme or reason to it. First sub had renegade, mechanist, specter (a friend), firebrand, chrono, the second had reaper, harbinger, catalyst, bladesworn, scrapper. mine was soulbeast, mechanist, virtuoso, bladesworn, dragonhunter. Tried to ask in squad chat about quickness, about reorganizing some of the subgroups, was promptly ignored. Timer for meta start was running, asked if out virtuoso could maybe do us some quickness, got no reply. "3-6 east, 7-0 west, 1-2 center" the commander said, and we were off.
Pre events were done. There is no variation in execution here, so whatever. Crystals got done kinda okay, too. Just before the Soo Won split, I ask about the split. "Even go heart, odd go square", commander says. Never places heart or square markers. Ignores the second three-way split question. My friend places down a waystation, and judging by the first breakbar, it gets ignored. Opening attack sees half the squad downed. First DPS phase on Soo Won has the top ten squad-members do between 4k and 9k, excluding the top 3. My friend informs me she is the only alac in her squad, I reply that I have no alac or quickness in mine. Soo Won dances around, then tail gets ignored for a full half minute, despite three squadmembers spamming chat about it, then the split happens. Our giant gets down to 10% while the other boss is still at 60, so yay, yet another stall. Soo Won again, DPS between 4-8k excluding top 3, tail smacks down about half the squad again, then tail bubbles half the squad. People seem to be fast with rezzing or respawning, though, as I'm not seeing many dead bodies, so yay for that, at least. I get caught in a whirlpool, nobody bails me out, so there goes my half minute of the green buff down the drain. Respawn at personal waypoint. Three-way split happens, I go up, and kinda eye where the fewest people go, and follow them. End up north-east, fighting the CC nightmare that is the riftstalker. We get him down to 20%, other two are at ~25 and 50%, so another stall. Timer is down to 4:50, Soo Won is at 30% HP. Somebody starts flaming the group in chat. Another person says "no chance, bye", leaves. Back to platform, Soo Won smacks half the squad with her tail again, her CC gets up, we managed to do it, but then tail spawns, we manage to do it, then she moves. Then the event ends at 7% health. Two someones start flaming the group in chat. Commander puffs out.

Soo Won was... kinda mobile, yes, but that's nothing compared to the massive amount of efficiency we lost to the bad subgroups, low DPS, bad splits, missed CCs, missed tails, etc. We got her down to 7%, and were in a "she moves every now and then, but it's just DPS time now" phase. Correcting literally any one of the errors would have gotten us the kill. Better split? Save ~20 seconds on each split phase, get 40 more seconds of raw DPS time. Faster tails? More un-penalized DPS time. Faster, or done at all, CC phases? More DPS time. Better personal or per-subgroup DPS? More DPS.

Not a good time was had by people. F.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 4/4/2022 at 3:56 AM, Ruisen.9471 said:

You can miss CC for so much reasons.

The player I mentioned did not miss it, he claimed he didn't know how to CC, period.  And that's a "veteran" by playtime standards, and I can assure you he is not the only one.

[Silent.6137]

8 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

The player I mentioned did not miss it, he claimed he didn't know how to CC, period.  And that's a "veteran" by playtime standards, and I can assure you he is not the only one.

In all meta, a sizeable number do not know what CC is. They ignore the defiance bar. And if someone calls out "CC"? That's an elite thing, right? That you do in raids?

A comm should always emphasize the need for CC before the meta starts. And list a few CC skills. In addition, players in the squad should announce for all to restock EMP after every phase. Not just the comm since he/she may be unable do so or neglected to do so for whatever reason.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Silent.6137

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

In all meta, a sizeable number do not know what CC is. They ignore the defiance bar. And if someone calls out "CC"? That's an elite thing, right? That you do in raids?

A comm should always emphasize the need for CC before the meta starts. And list a few CC skills. In addition, players in the squad should announce for all to restock EMP after every phase. Not just the comm since he/she may be unable do so or neglected to do so for whatever reason.

Might as well make the Commanders press the CC skills on everyone's keyboards.

[Vexona.6452]

I have 50+ wins with the DE Meta. Message me in game so you can be included with our runs. I have time setup to accommodate a wise variety of time zones 🙂

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Vexona.6452 said:

I have 50+ wins with the DE Meta. Message me in game so you can be included with our runs. I have time setup to accommodate a wise variety of time zones 🙂

Are you Eu or Na?

[Gibson.4036]

It's kind of a weird paradox that a more challenging meta doesn't actually make people have to play better, it makes them more reliant on having a good commander.

I've done four runs so far. My first, second, and fourth were successful. I definitely improved between the first and second. On the fourth I successfully made it to the top of the tower as a wisp for the first time.

I don't feel any of my improvement has made a whit of difference though. The successful runs had good commanders, the unsuccesful didn't.

[Silent.6137]

2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It's kind of a weird paradox that a more challenging meta doesn't actually make people have to play better, it makes them more reliant on having a good commander.

Although you may not think so, you'll definitely improve from each one you do since you'll be more aware of what needs to be done. A decent commander is essential as a focus for most. Already knowing the mechanics, you'll react faster to any cues from the commander.

I would suspect most failed attempts, the commanders are less experienced. And any wrong decisions made, those were exarcebated because many will just follow the commander blindly.

[Vexona.6452]

8 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Are you Eu or Na?

NA if that helps. We run day and OCE times

[The Boz.2038]

8 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It's kind of a weird paradox that a more challenging meta doesn't actually make people have to play better, it makes them more reliant on having a good commander.

I've done four runs so far. My first, second, and fourth were successful. I definitely improved between the first and second. On the fourth I successfully made it to the top of the tower as a wisp for the first time.

I don't feel any of my improvement has made a whit of difference though. The successful runs had good commanders, the unsuccesful didn't.

Meta is ~complex and ~new, so people flock to whoever seems to "lead". If the leader knows what's going on, meta will go along  a lot smoother.

[Jianyu.7065]

I was lucky enough to have only failed this once and was able to complete on my second try. What really sucks is that there are so many players failing at the same time when it does fail. When I failed, we only needed 5 more minutes and would have likely won. When I succeeded, we had about a minute to spare. 

 

All in all it was very fun. Just keep in mind you're not the only one and be hopeful of the fact you will succeed at some point. 

[Gibson.4036]

12 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

Although you may not think so, you'll definitely improve from each one you do since you'll be more aware of what needs to be done. A decent commander is essential as a focus for most. Already knowing the mechanics, you'll react faster to any cues from the commander.

I would suspect most failed attempts, the commanders are less experienced. And any wrong decisions made, those were exarcebated because many will just follow the commander blindly.

I do think so. I've definitely improved over the times I've played it.

I got downed several times my first encounter. Only once or no times on subsequent encounters. I'm spending less time moving to where I need to be, so more time actually doing damage. On my fourth run I succeeded as a wisp for the first time.

My point is that this is no different between metas. On "easy" metas, I learn from my mistakes and grow. On this meta, I do the same.

But success in this meta is entirely a roll of the dice on whether I find a good group.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Kate.3679]

Well, the numbers are out now. Over 60% of current meta attempts succeed. No more excuses.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-april-2022/

Edited April 14, 2022 by Ruru.1302

[Gibson.4036]

14 minutes ago, Ruru.1302 said:

Well, the numbers are out now. Over 60% of current meta attempts succeed. No more excuses.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-april-2022/

I'm wondering what the percentage would look like if you could split out dedicated guilds who do it repeatedly and other players who periodically show up hoping to find a good group. Namely, if there are groups doing it frequently with near 100% success, what does that mean the success rate is for your average pug instance to get the total down to 60%?

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

7 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I'm wondering what the percentage would look like if you could split out dedicated guilds who do it repeatedly and other players who periodically show up hoping to find a good group. Namely, if there are groups doing it frequently with near 100% success, what does that mean the success rate is for your average pug instance to get the total down to 60%?

TT isn't exactly successful without dedicated groups running it, that's fine, right? I don't see any complaints about that.

[Kichwas.7152]

GW2 is an extremely skill based game.

 

Your results in identical gear with a new player and a skilled player can be a difference of 5x or more effectiveness. This is the natural result of a 'mostly' action combat based game design.

 

But one critical problem it creates is that content for 'casual' players will cause skilled players to leave out of boredom, and content for skilled players is not completable by casual players.

 

I have yet to do the EoD final meta (I've been sidetracked from finishing the story). but my guess is this content tries to split the difference - and be for players of moderate skill. They are expecting that by the time you do it you did most of the story before hand. A player has to purposefully TRY TO NOT LEARN to not have some level of skill after doing all of that content. So I don't think this is the wrong decision to make.

That said, if we're talking about a Map meta that is NOT REQUIRED to finish the story - then the skill required to do it can justifiably be made even higher.

New players are one thing, but old players that have been loyal for nearly 10 years now also need something to play. New players shouldn't be doing this meta anyway.

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Kichwas.7152