Treated like a free to play player with both expansions

[Hartassen.9632]

I bought path of fire and heart of thorns but I still only have 1 bank tab, 2 equipment templates and 3 build templates. If I want any more I have to buy gems for real life money or grind endlessly in game.

Am I playing lost ark or something? I paid for the game and you're gating me out of quality of life features expecting me to pay even more for them?

If this is the way you treat your customers I'll never buy anything from you again. Because it's bad enough I have to spend all my gold unlocking living seasons that you gave out for free earlier.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Hartassen.9632

[Witch of Doom.5739]

You can wait on LW episodes until they are free again.  The other things, you think you deserve more than all the other players?  Good luck with that.  If you rage quit, I can haz yr stuff???

[Ashen.2907]

7 minutes ago, Hartassen.9632 said:

I bought path of fire and heart of thorns but I still only have 1 bank tab, 2 equipment templates and 3 build templates. If I want any more I have to buy gems for real life money or grind endlessly in game.

Am I playing lost ark or something? I paid for the game and you're gating me out of quality of life features expecting me to pay even more for them?

If this is the way you treat your customers I'll never buy anything from you again. Because it's bad enough I have to spend all my gold unlocking living seasons that you gave out for free earlier.

Just to clarify, is this the only consumer product where you buy one of a company's products and expect every other product they sell for free or do you apply that approach to everything you buy?

[Chocofox.9503]

I mean the bank equipment and build templets are standard. bank are worth getting during the sales the build and equipment however are character bound not account bound so not worth getting for most players.

As for the living world episodes I agree they should remove the gem gate and tie each living world episode to the expansion it came with. Otherwise big parts of the story are just left out.

[Hartassen.9632]

If the game was entirely free to play I would understand. But the expansions cost money and the gem store is filled with items for people to buy including boosts, xp boosts, karma boosts, speed boosts etcetera. And I'm also expected to pay for convenience like a bank tab or build templates? I don't expect "every single product from a company for free" but they literally tore out pieces of the game to sell them one by one. How daft do you have to be to support this?

You people need to play some real mmos. I would rather have a subscription fee and not be milked for money in this fashion. But go ahead and defend these practices if that's what you want. I'll go wait for some real mmo that doesn't treat me like I play on a mobile.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Hartassen.9632

[Hartassen.9632]

Calling bank tabs and building templates "company products" they are inside of the game, and were sold separately to make the game more money. Defending this practice is literally devoid of any sense of pride in yourself as anything other than a consumer.

[Xelqypla.6817]

4 minutes ago, Hartassen.9632 said:

Calling bank tabs and building templates "company products" they are inside of the game, and were sold separately to make the game more money. Defending this practice is literally devoid of any sense of pride in yourself as anything other than a consumer.

 

Ok, I'm a shameless consumer.

 

I play games because I enjoy playing them. They are a complete waste of time and money. There is zero reason to discuss whether X is more "consumer friendly" than Y. All that matters is that I am entertained.

[Farohna.6247]

3 minutes ago, Hartassen.9632 said:

Calling bank tabs and building templates "company products" they are inside of the game, and were sold separately to make the game more money. Defending this practice is literally devoid of any sense of pride in yourself as anything other than a consumer.

I see you've been playing for almost a year now....why is this suddenly news to you.  Consider the items to BE your subscription fee, but buy at your leisure if you choose.  Also boosters are available in game for free and are often part of your daily log in rewards...why buy them.  You don't need more bank space or bags...if you want them then buy them. I'm fine with being a shameless customer as well...I save my gold and convert it...try it, it's fun.

[Hashberry.4510]

Always fun watching them lose it over the best deal around.

[AgentMoore.9453]

If anything, I'd say this shows how nice a free-to-play account is given that it's so similar to a paid one. In other MMOs I've tried with free-to-play trials/accounts, you couldn't even use basic emotes like /sit or /cry unless you paid up. With GW2, the free/trial account gives you much more content and gameplay liberty compared to titles that try to pinch you for everything under the sun.

Now, once you're a paid customer, there's something to be said for the annoyance of inventory management and bags being a per-character purchase, but I also feel that these things are sort of a necessary evil to make up for the lack of a subscription fee. Would I rather pay now and then for a bag or a bank slot or would I rather dedicate a set amount of money every month not knowing if I'd get any bang for my buck during those 30 days? Currently, I'd pick the former. Buying expansions gives you new specs, maps, and achievements to chase (sometimes new mechanics too), so I feel those purchases are usually worth enough on their own without any additional frills, YMMV.

One thing that makes these annoyances slightly more digestible is the gem conversion system. I don't know that I've played many (if any) games that let you trade game currency for shop currency at a reasonable rate, and I've made quite a few gem shop purchases in this way. I typically take a long-term approach, kicking a few gold into the converter over a period of weeks until I have an amount that lets you pick up a convenience here and there. Having this system in place makes the whole experience feel more fair to me.

[kharmin.7683]

31 minutes ago, Hartassen.9632 said:

You people need to play some real mmos. I would rather have a subscription fee and not be milked for money in this fashion.

Hey, guess what?  You can do your own subscription in GW2!  Just buy $20 worth of gems every month and then use those gems to buy the convenience items (or LS chapters!) that you want.

[kharmin.7683]

33 minutes ago, Hartassen.9632 said:

If the game was entirely free to play I would understand. But the expansions cost money and the gem store is filled with items for people to buy including boosts, xp boosts, karma boosts, speed boosts etcetera. And I'm also expected to pay for convenience like a bank tab or build templates? I don't expect "every single product from a company for free" but they literally tore out pieces of the game to sell them one by one. How daft do you have to be to support this?

 

Hey, guess what?  You don't need any of these things to play the game and complete content!

[SlayerXX.7138]

51 minutes ago, Hartassen.9632 said:

I bought path of fire and heart of thorns but I still only have 1 bank tab, 2 equipment templates and 3 build templates. If I want any more I have to buy gems for real life money or grind endlessly in game.

Am I playing lost ark or something? I paid for the game and you're gating me out of quality of life features expecting me to pay even more for them?

If this is the way you treat your customers I'll never buy anything from you again. Because it's bad enough I have to spend all my gold unlocking living seasons that you gave out for free earlier.

It is a MMO. Massive multiplayer server cost game. They have to keep the server running and quality of life is the most reasonable aspect to monetize. Besides skin but that does cost money to produce in the first place and unlike LoL I don't think anet is big enough to make enough money on Skins alone.

 

If you ever played WoW or another subscription based game you always could buy 1600 Gems for 20 bucks every 2 months and look at it as a optional 10 dollar subscription.

 

I actually agree on the living world part. Monetizing the main story was a stupid idea from A-net.

[Freya.9075]

Grind endlessly.. let’s see. Build storage template are on sale right now. 75 gold. Bank storage 179 gold. Build template 89 gold. 
 

omg the grind is endless. The audacity of this game 🙀

[Parasite.5389]

Woe is me, i want free stuff!

[loregnum.3619]

I'm a new player starting at the top of this month and really like this game so far. Bought the first two expansions last week and my view is that I'm fine with how this is. I do wish they gave expansion buyers one extra bank slot yet I don't mind buying another if I really want it and I fully expect I will buy another. The game with the free to play core and the 2 expansions gives you a hell of a lot of gameplay for what is only 30 bucks or I guess even less if one got/gets it on sale. I don't mind if I decide to eventually spend another 30-40 bucks on gems to get convenience type stuff and bring the cost of this game up to a normal game price, especially when I plan to spend hundreds of hours in it.

 

As others have stated, there is no monthly subscription so one could look at buying these things as a sort of semi subscription if they truly want the items. 

 

[Sobx.1758]

Was there anything ever giving you false impression about buying expansion somehow giving you more/unlimited bank tabs and build templates? You thought the ingame store just disappears the moment you buy expanions and its contents are somehow inherently included with those expansions? Why?

Mind that I'm not saying you can't feel this way. I'm just asking: why did you think that was a thing?

Edited April 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758
story =/= store :D

[Khisanth.2948]

32 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Was there anything ever giving you false impression about buying expansion somehow giving you more/unlimited bank tabs and build templates? You thought the ingame store just disappears the moment you buy expanions and its contents are somehow inherently included with those expansions? Why?

Mind that I'm not saying you can't feel this way. I'm just asking: why did you think that was a thing?

AFAIK the only false impression issue was implying that buying the expansion included LS3/LS4. That seems to be gone now with the new sales page.

[Danikat.8537]

19 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Was there anything ever giving you false impression about buying expansion somehow giving you more/unlimited bank tabs and build templates? You thought the ingame story just disappears the moment you buy expanions and its contents are somehow inherently included with those expansions? Why?

Mind that I'm not saying you can't feel this way. I'm just asking: why did you think that was a thing?

That's what I was thinking. I can understand new players getting confused by the Living World, but I don't understand why anyone would expect extra bank tabs or equipment tabs for buying a paid version of the game, there's nothing I can see which would suggest that.

I'm also curious about which MMOs give you unlimited storage space if you buy the game. As far as I know even subscription MMOs don't do that, at most they have different limits for subscribers and non-subscribers, and of course that's in return for on-going payments, not a one-off purchase.

[Hartassen.9632]

I was never under any false illusions about what buying the expansions gave me. I recently started playing again a few days ago after leaving the game earlier. I just think it's sad to treat customers this way, there's more than enough monetization options in this game.

This was just a drop overflowing the cup issue. I recently learned about the amount of botting and general cheating going on in PvP and Automated tournaments from reading reddit posts. Then on top of that I need to buy the storys to actually play the expansions I bought after finishing tyria. So I'm stuck after playing the tyria campaign before I can accrue enough gold to convert to gems to play living world season 2. Then my bank overflows with the rewards I get from pvping and storing all the boosters and tomes and black lion items and other stuff I get.

I bought both expansions I don't expect to have the entire game given to me, but it feels as if they want me to pay every step of the way. I already am spending all my gold I earn on unlocking the living worlds so I can progress to heart of thorns and later to path of fire without missing a ton of the story. Now I am forced to spend time removing builds and adding new ones cause I can't afford any template slots, I am forced to use bag space to hold my materials and boosters. I don't feel like someone who bought two expansions I feel like I'm still a free to play player.
 

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Hartassen.9632 said:

Calling bank tabs and building templates "company products" they are inside of the game, and were sold separately to make the game more money. Defending this practice is literally devoid of any sense of pride in yourself as anything other than a consumer.

Those elements you desire cost money to produce. At least some were provided essentially for free (build/equipment templates were added for no additional cost to the player). Comaining that something that a company paid to produce isnt given out for free is ridiclous.

Our relationship with anet is producer and consumer. They make things hoping that I will buy them. I have money and hope they make things I want to buy. Any belief otherwise is delusional.

Associating personal pride in anyway on what you bought, and how, from a video game company

The dealership offers a version of the car I bought with additional features I do not care about...so I didnt buy them. It would be childish for me, or anyone, to complain that I did not get what I did not pay for. Next time, if I want the heated massage seats, I will buy them.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[SlayerXX.7138]

21 minutes ago, Hartassen.9632 said:

I was never under any false illusions about what buying the expansions gave me. I recently started playing again a few days ago after leaving the game earlier. I just think it's sad to treat customers this way, there's more than enough monetization options in this game.

This was just a drop overflowing the cup issue. I recently learned about the amount of botting and general cheating going on in PvP and Automated tournaments from reading reddit posts. Then on top of that I need to buy the storys to actually play the expansions I bought after finishing tyria. So I'm stuck after playing the tyria campaign before I can accrue enough gold to convert to gems to play living world season 2. Then my bank overflows with the rewards I get from pvping and storing all the boosters and tomes and black lion items and other stuff I get.

I bought both expansions I don't expect to have the entire game given to me, but it feels as if they want me to pay every step of the way. I already am spending all my gold I earn on unlocking the living worlds so I can progress to heart of thorns and later to path of fire without missing a ton of the story. Now I am forced to spend time removing builds and adding new ones cause I can't afford any template slots, I am forced to use bag space to hold my materials and boosters. I don't feel like someone who bought two expansions I feel like I'm still a free to play player.
 

Protip: If you have a character slot free, make an bank alt with cheap bags. Stuff like most boosters are hoarded on an alt and not the bank tab.

[Naxos.2503]

22 minutes ago, Hartassen.9632 said:

I was never under any false illusions about what buying the expansions gave me. I recently started playing again a few days ago after leaving the game earlier. I just think it's sad to treat customers this way, there's more than enough monetization options in this game.

This was just a drop overflowing the cup issue. I recently learned about the amount of botting and general cheating going on in PvP and Automated tournaments from reading reddit posts. Then on top of that I need to buy the storys to actually play the expansions I bought after finishing tyria. So I'm stuck after playing the tyria campaign before I can accrue enough gold to convert to gems to play living world season 2. Then my bank overflows with the rewards I get from pvping and storing all the boosters and tomes and black lion items and other stuff I get.

I bought both expansions I don't expect to have the entire game given to me, but it feels as if they want me to pay every step of the way. I already am spending all my gold I earn on unlocking the living worlds so I can progress to heart of thorns and later to path of fire without missing a ton of the story. Now I am forced to spend time removing builds and adding new ones cause I can't afford any template slots, I am forced to use bag space to hold my materials and boosters. I don't feel like someone who bought two expansions I feel like I'm still a free to play player.
 

You, and indeed all of us are : Buy to play players. And I feel this needs to be pointed out.

You may feel like you need to suscribe to get access to these things, which I will remind you in a Suscription based economy is never actually Yours and truly acquired, but Rented and paid over several months and occasionally years.

In a Buy to play economy, what you pay for is yours. You dont lose it because you stop buying things. What you bought is something you retain at all times. I'd argue that is a superior and much more customer friendly experience than essentially being deducted on your wallet every month whether you have time to play or not, and having the guarantee of still having everything you paid for perfectly accessible as you left it in case of hiatus is equally consumer friendly.

But while you're entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to additional services which are not included within what you paid for, that is how the buy to play system works. You will very likely see everyone on the same mindset here. The only argument people preferring a suscription can level is that it regulate the game against botters and farmers (and that is flimsy at best, as we all know some farmers and botters find ways around that).

[Stx.4857]

This game charges you for pretty much every quality of life feature, some are borderline necessary because they are just so convenient.  

 

-character slots

-bank tabs

-bag space

-shared inventory spaces (this is a big one)

-material storage upgrades 

-build / gear templates 

-unbreakable harvesting tools

-salvage bots

-the lounges (having one of these is huge)

 

Add to this that every mount skin in the game comes from gem store, most outfits, and there are also lots of exclusive and really cool weapon and armor skins too.  Same for gliders and back items.  

 

Overall, I would recommend just spending some money every month on gems and pretend it's a sub fee.  Pay for the expansions plus a monthly sub, that's standard for any MMO.  Over time you can buy what you want from the shop, and even though it's not fun, remember you can always farm gold to buy gems.  

Edited April 27, 2022 by Stx.4857

[Ashen.2907]

Something that gets overlooked is that expansions likely barely pay for their own development, if that. If ANet has 300 employees but 200 of them are working on an expansion, average developer pay in their area is upwards of 80k per year, average cost to employ multiplier in their area is close to 1.3, and an expansion takes a couple years to produce, so:

80,000 x 200 x 1.3 x 2 = 41.6 million dollars. If the expansion costs $40 then anet would need to sell over a million copies (which I doubt they manage) just to break even on the payroll costs...and that leaves 100 employees not working on the expansion to be paid from some other source of revenue...

and of course there is overhead beyond just payroll costs.