PvP/WvW Revenant Changes: 05/10/2022

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Revenant

The revenant's hammer is another source of ranged pressure that we looked at for this update, with both Coalescence of Ruin and Phase Smash receiving damage reductions.

• Coalescence of Ruin: Reduced power coefficient from 1.15 to 0.91 in WvW only.
• Phase Smash: Reduced power coefficient from 1.2 to 1.0 in WvW only.

Vindicator has continued to overperform in PvP, largely due to the defensive strength of the Kurzick side of Legendary Alliance Stance. We want to keep the energy costs on the lower side to maintain the flow when switching between the two sides, but the cooldowns of Tree Song and Battle Dance make them too easy to use repeatedly while staying on the Kurzick side. Saint's Shield is also getting an adjustment to its attribute scaling to bring down the sustainability of Avatar Amulet builds. We're continuing to keep an eye on the strength of Saint's Shield for nonhealing builds, but we want to gauge the impact of the adjustments to Tree Song and Battle Dance before making any further changes there.

• Tree Song: Reduced the number of conditions removed from 5 to 3 in PvP only. Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 8 seconds in PvP only.
• Battle Dance: Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP only.
• Saint's Shield: Reduced healing and barrier attribute scaling from 1.0 to 0.7 in PvP only.

While the defensive side of the vindicator has been strong, its offensive capability has been a bit less impressive since the adjustment to Eternity's Requiem. We've bumped up the damage on some of its weaker skills on the greatsword and the Luxon side of Legendary Alliance Stance to make damage-focused vindicators a bit more threatening.

• Phantom's Onslaught: Increased power coefficient from 1.18 to 1.33 in PvP and WvW.
• Scavenger Burst: Increased power coefficient from 1.25 to 1.55 in PvP only.
• Nomad's Advance: Increased power coefficient from 2.0 to 2.3 in PvP and WvW.
• Spear of Archemorus: Increased power coefficient from 2.33 to 2.67 in PvP and WvW. Reduced energy cost from 20 to 15 in PvP and WvW.

 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

What are all the PvPers thoughts? I saw some clips of bunker Vindis and it seemed pretty degen, but I'd say the CD nerfs to Tree Song & Battle Dance seem really brutal. Damage buffs for Archy seem nice though. 

[Silesium.5623]

I think the some vind hardly have way to surive with one doddge and no generation of block/stablity like other classes

[ArthurDent.9538]

Im amazed anyone considered hammer still overperforming those power coefficients for such slow skills are hilariously low even before these nerfs.

[Santo.2419]

 

2 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Im amazed anyone considered hammer still overperforming those power coefficients for such slow skills are hilariously low even before these nerfs.

 

Yeah, I was surprised to see hammer nerfs there.

[Telgum.6071]

This patch is Anet's way to express they want you to stop using Herald after 7 years and start using the new single dodge specialization.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

7 minutes ago, Santo.2419 said:

 

 

Yeah, I was surprised to see hammer nerfs there.

 

Same tbh.

 

[EDIT]: Nevermind. Removed rest of post because I'm dumb.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Za Shaloc.3908

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Im amazed anyone considered hammer still overperforming those power coefficients for such slow skills are hilariously low even before these nerfs.

Here is the problem with Hammer ... IMO, it's not nerfed because it's OPed, it's nerfed because it it appears heavily on the data Anet looks at for what is used. Of course, that would be FAULTY logic on Anet's part because they failed to give Core Rev more ranged weapons. 

In otherwords, it's impossible to make assessments of performance from usage data when there is only one option for use. 

[phokus.8934]

11 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Im amazed anyone considered hammer still overperforming those power coefficients for such slow skills are hilariously low even before these nerfs.

Hammer is still bad since the CoR change/nerf and they make it worse by reducing its damage.  This is a precursor to the big June balance update.

[Shao.7236]

Those hammer changes are stupid. I use it in PvP all the time and before considering to even dare touching co-efficients they should actually fix how badly the skill functions with no point blank hitbox.

 

Viktor couldn't have been anymore handled worst. Once again a double nerf rather than changing one or the other. Considering the Harbinger condition spam being completely untouched in PvP there's even more incentive to run double harb on teams now.

 

Could have just gone away by nerfing the healing on Treesong while keeping the condi spam in check, but sure CmC, pro players sure knows better by thinking that the one class who happens to be even more of a sitting duck with the elite spec needs to have no alternatives that prevents it from dying so easily by pressure that's easily accessed and can be multiplied.

 

The evade nerf is unjustified, a lot of people swapped from Saint Shield because the loss of damage wouldn't be compensated by the healing granted.

 

Don't see how you can be a reasonable support now even when fully specced into it since this is an single long evade we're talking about, not a skill that can be easily accessed. You can easily cc lock vindicator whenever they'll try to be useful as a support.

 

Damage on Arch isn't going to do much. It was already good enough, making it better won't compensate for the fact for how easy it is to die on Vindi, more people will complain about how hard it hits then beg to be brought back to what it was.

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

1 hour ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

• Tree Song: Reduced the number of conditions removed from 5 to 3 in PvP only. Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 8 seconds in PvP only.
• Battle Dance: Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP only.

I don't even get it. Weren't they balanced by the fact that You'll run out of energy quicker if you spam these? What is even the point of the energy system if they're going to make drastic change like this?

Edited May 10, 2022 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

I don't even get it. Weren't they balanced by the fact that You'll run out of energy quicker if you spam these? What is even the point of the energy system if they're going to make drastic change like this?

The energy system is a flawed concept in a system where it competes with CD's in the first place so ... don't even bother to ask how these changes logically exist in EITHER system. 

[Curennos.9307]

Very unhappy with these changes - I would assume that anet would nerf the 'extra' or unnecessary parts of skills instead of decreasing the effectiveness of the base function of a utility skill. I'd also hope that if they noticed an issue, they'd simply reduce the impact of a previous change that caused the issue.

 

I don't understand why, upon noticing that there was a lack of damage, they didn't simply reduce the damage nerf to GS5. It DID do too much damage and now it's like a mildly stiff noodle, and could, imo, use a slight damage buff. But why buff the damage numbers on utility skills - the red ones feel terrible to use! Nobody likes getting hit for 3-4k, and now even more, by a low tell skill, or a stunbreak. Nomad's Advance certainly didn't need a damage buff, either - it feels awful to use these skills and have them do damage. I would much rather they be buff skills that reward landing my actual damage skills. 

 

Treesong and Battle Dance definitely needed changes - but they could've just increased the cooldown slightly and removed the healing per condi removed, or reduced or something to that effect. 

 

They could've just increased the cooldown on treesong and battle dance to 6 seconds, reduced the condi cleanse of treesong to 3 and removed the healing, then buffed eternity's requiem and called it a day. Admittedly I would REALLY like to see all damage removed from Scavenger Burst and Reaver's Rage (and funneled into something else to support doing damage), but eh.

 

Only decent change here is for the Spear, which I look forward to trying to use more often.

 

Did they even fix GS3's range?

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Lol this garbage hammer nerfed again LMFAO holy moly. Abandon ship

[Scoobaniec.9561]

50 minutes ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

I don't even get it. Weren't they balanced by the fact that You'll run out of energy quicker if you spam these? What is even the point of the energy system if they're going to make drastic change like this?

Energy system is pointless and been for a while with how they 'balance' game. Much energy management booom mf cd slap on. Get rid of energy and just put regular cd's already. In fact make energy only for upkeeps tbh

[Aevic.9675]

Our only viable WvW Zerg Power Build and it's being beaten like a dead horse.

[felix.2386]

(pvp)bruh, energy system is what makes rev strong, because they can just solely use energy to boost sustain with no need to do damage.

while others only have a set amount of sustain skills, 

 

the skill was designed to not have multiple uses to begin yet energy system allows that.

 

that's why they need to put a small cooldown on it to make it not too good.

 

and gs/staff vindi is unkillable in ranked game(plat+), so well deserved sustain nerf.

Edited May 10, 2022 by felix.2386

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

 

2 hours ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

I don't even get it. Weren't they balanced by the fact that You'll run out of energy quicker if you spam these? What is even the point of the energy system if they're going to make drastic change like this?

maybe because spamming 1 skill and being practically immune to condi is overpowered terrible design?

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

maybe because spamming 1 skill and being practically immune to condi is overpowered terrible design?

If you play vindicator at any point, then you'd realize that using tree song that excessively will result in you being unable to do anything else due to how the energy system works. And if Legend swapping is still on cooldown, You might as well have daze for how little you can do with your low energy. Plus, you're not. "Immune." The Cool down was three second, and you are still have to deal with ccs and the like. You're not gonna use Tree song on demand like other cleanses that HAS a cc break function built into them

I'd be fine if they adjusted the energy cost to make it more expensive to use. I can live with that. But the moment they added a cooldown to our only REAL cleanse that isn't tied to a healing skill or trait (Or using the Centaur legend, which. Why would you use that in pvp?) to a class that supposed to have the lowest cooldown skills in the game in exhange for energy, You're not going to catch people dead using the alliance legend.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[daninumbers.4036]

I used to be a power hammer main in wvw for years even accepting all of the nerfs including the change of embrace the darkness, just a few seconds of 10% extra stats, blind immunity (pseudo resistance?) and using autoattack to have the full (6 - 10 seconds) duration. Doubling the cd of CoR was a huge nerf already since even if you had big damage it was a burst. Slowing the wave down was applied to pve too and it makes enemies walking towards you entirely evade all damage very often. But the worst offender was making it unable to hit in melee range. I have no clue who was the  brilliant mind that thought of it but I'm never coming back to hammer, even worse now with these. Condi renegade for me, already nerfed too with the rune of tormenting change, but still way better. Also as it was pointed out, they are slow skills. You have plenty of time to dodge them, even to walk to a side for CoR. For phase smash you need to aim where you expect the enemy is going to be in the like 2 seconds it takes you to reach what you are hitting and hope you aren't blinded while casting. Shouldn't it be rewarding for landing it?

Sad to see my fav class being seen as op when it's not. You can't measure dps with all boons on a golem and claim nerfs.

[Shao.7236]

2 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

(pvp)bruh, energy system is what makes rev strong, because they can just solely use energy to boost sustain with no need to do damage.

while others only have a set amount of sustain skills, 

 

the skill was designed to not have multiple uses to begin yet energy system allows that.

 

that's why they need to put a small cooldown on it to make it not too good.

 

and gs/staff vindi is unkillable in ranked game(plat+), so well deserved sustain nerf.

Not unkillable against double harbs. Really easy to overwhelm. Let alone just 1v2 mixed with harb, rev eventually melts just because the profession is limited in decisions. Playing 100% defensive wouldn't even save it unless who ever is facing it is key mashing rather than coordinating.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Shao.7236

[Kanyin.9605]

What a kittening joke. Absolutely nothing about Rev is oppressive in PVP or WVW. This is my main and it's out DPSd in everything. Out survived in everything. The ONLY thing we have is timed spiked damage with other Revs. That's it. And you nerf it. Devs are kittening drooling mental patients.

[Buran.3796]

7 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

What are all the PvPers thoughts? I saw some clips of bunker Vindis and it seemed pretty degen, but I'd say the CD nerfs to Tree Song & Battle Dance seem really brutal. Damage buffs for Archy seem nice though. 

   Couldn't care less.

   Stopped playing Vindicator 3 weeks ago; did play the entire 3 vs 3 almost exclusively as either condi Herald or power Renegade. I'm all for rising the evade cost to 150 units, since I have no plans to use the spec again at any content in the game. Completed (almost) the EoD maps running a condi Renegade and fastly returned to the much more lucrative HoT/PoF maps.

   Has been 6+ months since the last time I did use hammer at WvW roaming, and ~4 years since the WvW guild I was in faded and crumbled; I never zerg since, so hammer being irrelevant feels a bit like the appendix: at best you don't notice it and at worst probably would be better if is removed.

     And is not likely I play much GW2 lately: not even doing the dailies. Got over 1200 gold just farming and selling gold ore in the first month of EoD but became boring fast; now I'm sitting ~1800 gc while playing other games.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Buran.3796

[Howluffu.7259]

Disgusting changes. 

Gj Anet for curing my addiction.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

8 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Lol this garbage hammer nerfed again LMFAO holy moly. Abandon ship

Abandon the pirate ship you mean?