High-tech: "But it's always been there!"

[mythical.6315]

5 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

Why 16 years? That takes us back to 1319 when Destiny's edge formed

All of the technology is because of Joon and that year was when the Xunlai Jade was formed. 

[Khisanth.2948]

8 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

All of the technology is because of Joon and that year was when the Xunlai Jade was formed. 

Heh ... the same way that Apple invented everything? 🙂

[mythical.6315]

Just now, Khisanth.2948 said:

Heh ... the same way that Apple invented everything? 🙂

They didn’t and this isn’t about whether all of the company has come from a single company or not. 

[Hashberry.4510]

The tech side of the game has never appealed to me; likewise the GW1 nostalgia plays. Its not an intrinsically bad idea, but it feels sloppy as hell here.

[AgentMoore.9453]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

All of the technology is because of Joon and that year was when the Xunlai Jade was formed. 

Yes, which gets overlooked a lot. Xunlai Jade was founded by Joon and Chul-Moo in 1319 AE.

Cantha didn't have 250 years to produce Jade Technology, they had roughly one and a half decades and a power source more or less equivalent with magitech crystals. Having a battery doesn't invent ziplines, microwaves, teleporters, coffee machines, or sentient mechs, so for me the biggest plothole is how a bunch of isolated Humans managed to pull off/surpass in ~16 years without war or international commerce what the Asura (a race of people presented as an intellectual and technological powerhouse) and alliance of Tyrian races have spent the entire lifespan of the game working on in response to the dragon threat.

So was there always some tech in GW2? Sure, it was just developed by the people you'd expect and at a pace reasonable for events occurring in the world. I do not feel the same is true in Cantha.

[Dante.1508]

I don't mind green, i just feel GW2 has lost its self in this expansion, and its customers, i'm more of a high fantasy type customer and find jade tech garish and ugly and full of loop holes..

I mean the jade sea is melting.. the Canthans make everything out of jade tech.. that's melting.. why isn't all their statues and gear melting as well.. c'mon Anet your better than this.

I'm with the op i dislike the whole future is now Cantha, its really silly and ugly. This wasn't the GW2 i signed up for tbh. Again i like green, not the Jade tech designs..

 

And if we can recolor the Jade tech mask and boat why can't we recolor the jade tech Mechanist golem/robot thing.

On 5/21/2022 at 3:51 AM, Ashen.2907 said:

In the pre-hot section you forgot tanks, machineguns, submachineguns in many ways more advanced than what we have in the real world today, lasers, helicopters, submarines, flamethrowers, automatic artillery, armored personnel carriers, force field generators, hologram projectors.

Based on what we actually see in game rather than on dialogue Cantha is actually behind core Tyria  technogically.

But I agree that the tech element is overdone throughout the game.

I never liked the whole charr industry either.. Its all really ugly and far fetched.. I tend to avoid charr areas.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Yes, which gets overlooked a lot. Xunlai Jade was founded by Joon and Chul-Moo in 1319 AE.

Cantha didn't have 250 years to produce Jade Technology, they had roughly one and a half decades and a power source more or less equivalent with magitech crystals. Having a battery doesn't invent ziplines, microwaves, teleporters, coffee machines, or sentient mechs, so for me the biggest plothole is how a bunch of isolated Humans managed to pull off/surpass in ~16 years without war or international commerce what the Asura (a race of people presented as an intellectual and technological powerhouse) and alliance of Tyrian races have spent the entire lifespan of the game working on in response to the dragon threat.

So was there always some tech in GW2? Sure, it was just developed by the people you'd expect and at a pace reasonable for events occurring in the world. I do not feel the same is true in Cantha.

They had however long they wanted, except they could realize they're missing the sufficient power source. After getting access to that power source, all they did was fill in the blanks. And that's directly connected to the fact that many of those inventions indeed already existed, even if some of them just in a slightly simpler form 🤷‍♂️ 

[mythical.6315]

19 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They had however long they wanted, except they could realize they're missing the sufficient power source. After getting access to that power source, all they did was fill in the blanks. And that's directly connected to the fact that many of those inventions indeed already existed, even if some of them just in a slightly simpler form 🤷‍♂️ 

 

That would work if all of the technology didn't come from Joon.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I'm super sick of standard high fantasy so the techy fantasy stuff is great to me. 

[Ultramex.1506]

36 minutes ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I'm super sick of standard high fantasy so the techy fantasy stuff is great to me. 

You and me both, people here sure lack the imagination

Oh i sure love to see another standard fantasy crap, as if i didn't see that in LOTR, ESO, Albion and other singleplayer RPG set in medieval settings

[Jukhy.2431]

14 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Yeah with the power source. Becoming so technologically advanced in a short time is a completely different case. 

And how do you know how much they helped in the end? Maybe Soo-Won gave Joon some advice too, just as Navan adviced the imperial family for decades. I doubt Joon invented every piece of tech herself and without Soo-Won's magic there would be no jade batteries or other jade tech at all. Seems you too easily push away the fact that canthans had multiple saltspray dragons and the mother of elder dragons helping them.

Edit: just to add; since Navan's true identity and Soo-Won reactor room were both closely guarded secrets only known by few, they had to tell everyone that Joon invented everything.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Jukhy.2431

[Syvaris Laskaris.5247]

8 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I'm super sick of standard high fantasy so the techy fantasy stuff is great to me. 

 

8 hours ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

You and me both, people here sure lack the imagination

Oh i sure love to see another standard fantasy crap, as if i didn't see that in LOTR, ESO, Albion and other singleplayer RPG set in medieval settings

Tech-High-Fantasy or whatever you want to call GW2 brings some serious problems with why anyone would still be a sword and board Warrior when even Pirates are able to build Laser canons that can harm Godlike Dragons. With Magic you usually have the eugenics excuse for why not everyone is using it. For Muskets, mithril+ plate armor can block it mostly. Warriors should be getting replaced by Holo-techs at this point with how common tech is.

It was pointed out earlier, but lore-wise what is the point of the Norn at this stage in time?

Edited May 22, 2022 by TheSeraphim.7413

[Kalavier.1097]

On 5/20/2022 at 8:43 PM, Rogue.8235 said:

Norn have done nothing to help advance the Pact.  The only great Norn characters to grace the Pact are there because they punch things and like to drink a lot.  At least they can help advance the science behind fermentation to produce better, more advanced alcohol.  But, nope, they don't even do that.

The only Norn attempting to make any sort of advancement is attempting to cook things with bloodstone dust. 

Ah yes, let's completely and utterly ignore that one of the three best blacksmiths in known Tyria at the time was a Norn (the trio is a Norn, a Tengu, and an Sylvari). Infact, the Norn blacksmith who joined was LITERALLY the guy who rediscovered how to craft Deldrimor steel, and as part of the trio he was a major part in crafting the Pact's weapons. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beigarth_the_Smith

But nah. Let's just focus on how when Norn party at their homes, they party hard.

16 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Yes, which gets overlooked a lot. Xunlai Jade was founded by Joon and Chul-Moo in 1319 AE.

Cantha didn't have 250 years to produce Jade Technology, they had roughly one and a half decades and a power source more or less equivalent with magitech crystals. Having a battery doesn't invent ziplines, microwaves, teleporters, coffee machines, or sentient mechs, so for me the biggest plothole is how a bunch of isolated Humans managed to pull off/surpass in ~16 years without war or international commerce what the Asura (a race of people presented as an intellectual and technological powerhouse) and alliance of Tyrian races have spent the entire lifespan of the game working on in response to the dragon threat.

So was there always some tech in GW2? Sure, it was just developed by the people you'd expect and at a pace reasonable for events occurring in the world. I do not feel the same is true in Cantha.

In I think Joon's journal, or a note written by her, she mentions replacing the Amber core in her lantern with a chunk of charged jade she found. The Jade produced far more powerful light, which is what started her working on dragonjade. The fact she replaced magically charged chunk of Amber inside of a lantern implies that there was, in some manner, use of Amber as a magic fuel source for some things.

Also, the Asura famously do not share. They do not allow others to study and dig into their tech. They outright add steps or make things more complicated just to prove their own intelligence. Xunlai Jade ironically is the biggest threat to Asura because it proves everybody else can, infact, understand the magic based tech.

12 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They had however long they wanted, except they could realize they're missing the sufficient power source. After getting access to that power source, all they did was fill in the blanks. And that's directly connected to the fact that many of those inventions indeed already existed, even if some of them just in a slightly simpler form 🤷‍♂️ 

We know for a fact they had Amber based magic lanterns. And with Xunlai Jade actively producing cooperative elements and seeking to sell/provide to the masses (very much unlike the Asura), it's understandable how it blew up. Instead of hording everything and hissing that nobody was smart enough to understand the basics, they went "Welcome to Xunlai Jade, here's bob, he'll teach you the basics. After that, we'll figure out where you get posted.

12 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

That would work if all of the technology didn't come from Joon.

Besides the fact it literally doesn't lol. Joon founded the company, and does help invent stuff but she isn't the only mind there. This isn't an Asura Krewe where the one person is in charge and designs everything for his minions to build. Xunlai has medical departments, R&D, power generation, merchandising groups.

They have a vast number of employees helping design, build, maintain, and sell products to the masses. As said, this is unlike the Asura who actively horde their tech, and even back in base GW2 a dungeon path in Caudecus's manor was helping an agent go blow up "stolen" Asura tech so it wouldn't fall into the hands of humans.

5 hours ago, Jukhy.2431 said:

And how do you know how much they helped in the end? Maybe Soo-Won gave Joon some advice too, just as Navan adviced the imperial family for decades. I doubt Joon invented every piece of tech herself and without Soo-Won's magic there would be no jade batteries or other jade tech at all. Seems you too easily push away the fact that canthans had multiple saltspray dragons and the mother of elder dragons helping them.

Edit: just to add; since Navan's true identity and Soo-Won reactor room were both closely guarded secrets only known by few, they had to tell everyone that Joon invented everything.

The thing is, Joon doesn't even have to say she invented everything, and outright doesn't as far as I recall.

She founded the company, and she was the "main brain" behind the big reactor which originally was meant to tap geothermal lines IIRC, as well as water based power production but she got everybody onboard with the other reactor idea and thus expanded/built it to contain Soo-Won, while using the other sources to power the plant itself. Sure, top government officials knew the truth, but Joon's heralded as the creator of the company and the power plant.

That jade mech you bought to help clean your house? That was designed by R&D group over there focusing on household goods. It was sold to you by the merchandising department. Xunlai jade has inventors and researchers.

49 minutes ago, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

 

Tech-High-Fantasy or whatever you want to call GW2 brings some serious problems with why anyone would still be a sword and board Warrior when even Pirates are able to build Laser canons that can harm Godlike Dragons. With Magic you have the eugenics excuse for why not everyone is using it. For Muskets, mithril+ plate armor can block it mostly. Warriors should be getting replaced by Holo-techs at this point with how common tech is.

It was pointed out earlier, but lore-wise what is the point of the Norn at this stage in time?

Ignoring that those "pirates" had a heaping of ex-inquest agents within their ranks and that the Aetherblades as an entire whole operated on a tech level vastly above what the standard pirates in Tyria can do, including the Corsairs of Elona.

Crafting and enchantments even the playing field. Nobody really uses Muskets anymore, but even then, we've seen guns get more advanced, as well as various ammos and such. Look at engineers, hell, look at deadeyes. That's hardly a typical "musket" if one at all.

I don't really get what you mean by "What's the point of Norn". What's the point of Quaggan? What's the point of Ogres or Naga or Tengu?

The person earlier gleefully ignored the fact that one of three people responsible for designing and crafting the pacts weaponry was literally the very same Norn who rediscovered how to craft Deldrimor steel, and joined the pact to build weapons. And since he was the one who discovered how to craft it again, he's likely heavily involved in the creation of the Golem battlesuit used in Orr, which was entirely Deldrimor Steel.

So without Norn, the strongest metal known wouldn't be back in circulation.

 

edit: Also as said, EoD doesn't introduce new stuff. The level of tech was present in base game GW1, it's just that Xunlai actually expanded where the Asura refuse to allow any other race to truly be involved or learn the tech. I went into EoD thinking "Jade tech upgrades" for Asura golems or such, and left going "Oh, it's a sidegrade. Same level, but more user friendly."

Edited May 22, 2022 by Kalavier.1097

[Ultramex.1506]

2 hours ago, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

 

Tech-High-Fantasy or whatever you want to call GW2 brings some serious problems with why anyone would still be a sword and board Warrior when even Pirates are able to build Laser canons that can harm Godlike Dragons. With Magic you usually have the eugenics excuse for why not everyone is using it. For Muskets, mithril+ plate armor can block it mostly. Warriors should be getting replaced by Holo-techs at this point with how common tech is.

It was pointed out earlier, but lore-wise what is the point of the Norn at this stage in time?

Right from the beginning, the story told us if all races work together they can kill an elder dragon. Can't remember much about Ankka's weapon origin but it didnt hurt Aurene physically, only drained her magic, same for Soo-Won, didnt kil her either, we did by infusing with Aurene.

For holo-tech, well engineers are pretty smart, arent they? Warriors got gunsaber instead, may not be holo-tech but still advanced. Not sure if you want the "Muskets, mithril+ plate armor" logic when an Ele wearing cloth can get smashed by Risen Abomination's club and still live

As for Norn, well we see  few of them in the Aetherblade, 1 even wield a flamethrower in Aetherblade dungeon path, so i dont doubt they can adapt to the technology advancement. Problem is Anet don't pay much attention to them, even in IBS the Charr take over the story, perhaps when we have Norn-focused expansion.

Edit: oh wait, Braham has a magical bow that can crack Jormag's tooth, so maybe they are strong in magic not technology

Edited May 22, 2022 by Ultramex.1506

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

That would work if all of the technology didn't come from Joon.

And you think inventors aren't using past discoveries for their new inventions, but instead just work in a bubble, generating all the knowledge they have? That's... just not even how humanity progresses. Then there's of course also this:

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Besides the fact it literally doesn't lol. Joon founded the company, and does help invent stuff but she isn't the only mind there. This isn't an Asura Krewe where the one person is in charge and designs everything for his minions to build. Xunlai has medical departments, R&D, power generation, merchandising groups.

They have a vast number of employees helping design, build, maintain, and sell products to the masses. As said, this is unlike the Asura who actively horde their tech, and even back in base GW2 a dungeon path in Caudecus's manor was helping an agent go blow up "stolen" Asura tech so it wouldn't fall into the hands of humans.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Besides the fact it literally doesn't lol. Joon founded the company, and does help invent stuff but she isn't the only mind there. This isn't an Asura Krewe where the one person is in charge and designs everything for his minions to build. Xunlai has medical departments, R&D, power generation, merchandising groups.

They have a vast number of employees helping design, build, maintain, and sell products to the masses. As said, this is unlike the Asura who actively horde their tech, and even back in base GW2 a dungeon path in Caudecus's manor was helping an agent go blow up "stolen" Asura tech so it wouldn't fall into the hands of humans.

And all of these advances are doing over 16 years from an isolated nation. 

[mythical.6315]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And you think inventors aren't using past discoveries for their new inventions, but instead just work in a bubble, generating all the knowledge they have? That's... just not even how humanity progresses. Then there's of course also this:

Well they are in a bubble since Cantha was isolated until recently. 

[mythical.6315]

6 hours ago, Jukhy.2431 said:

And how do you know how much they helped in the end? Maybe Soo-Won gave Joon some advice too, just as Navan adviced the imperial family for decades. I doubt Joon invented every piece of tech herself and without Soo-Won's magic there would be no jade batteries or other jade tech at all. Seems you too easily push away the fact that canthans had multiple saltspray dragons and the mother of elder dragons helping them.

Edit: just to add; since Navan's true identity and Soo-Won reactor room were both closely guarded secrets only known by few, they had to tell everyone that Joon invented everything.

You’re telling me that the dragons gave advice on how to create technology?  Really?

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Well they are in a bubble since Cantha was isolated until recently. 

They are in the bubble, but it didn't stop them from having their own inventions/discoveries/knowledge from before the dragonjade. And notice how it correctly went from "Joon" to "them", which is part of the point.

[Kalavier.1097]

13 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

And all of these advances are doing over 16 years from an isolated nation. 

And they've equaled where Asura are now. Cooperatively and pushing for user friendly, public use items.

It's not like they've built the worlds best laser beam or an entirely unknown, new thing.

People act as if they are doing super amazing brand new stuff but really, it's the same stuff Rata Sum has since the start. They've faced troubles in the Risen and other threats, but have focused R&D on improving quality of life for their people. Not all tech comes from war.

It's also proven that Joon had access to Asura science manuals and tech books, even if they are old. Her mansion is filled with foreign artifacts from even the Shiverpeaks as a jab at nobility.

 

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They are in the bubble, but it didn't stop them from having their own inventions/discoveries/knowledge from before the dragonjade. And notice how it correctly went from "Joon" to "them", which is part of the point.

I once saw it described. "Get more skritt into a room, the more cooperation and things getting done occurs. Get more Asura in the room, the more arguing and fighting happens, and less gets done."

Edited May 22, 2022 by Kalavier.1097

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 That's... just not even how humanity progresses. 

To be fair, what is presented in game is also not how humanity progresses.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

To be fair, what is presented in game is also not how humanity progresses.

Yes, in the end the game is a game, but "Joon did it all!" is incorrectly dismissing the very obvious way knowledge is passed that's equally true "there" as it is "here", which was -hopefully clearly?- the context of what you've quoted.

[Gibson.4036]

3 hours ago, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

 

Tech-High-Fantasy or whatever you want to call GW2 brings some serious problems with why anyone would still be a sword and board Warrior when even Pirates are able to build Laser canons that can harm Godlike Dragons. With Magic you usually have the eugenics excuse for why not everyone is using it. For Muskets, mithril+ plate armor can block it mostly. Warriors should be getting replaced by Holo-techs at this point with how common tech is.

It was pointed out earlier, but lore-wise what is the point of the Norn at this stage in time?

Because those sword and board warriors clearly have magical abilities of their own that rival holosmith magitech.

And no, plate armor does not stop bullets.

[mythical.6315]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They are in the bubble, but it didn't stop them from having their own inventions/discoveries/knowledge from before the dragonjade. And notice how it correctly went from "Joon" to "them", which is part of the point.

 

If you go back to my earlier posts, it doesn't really matter whether it came specifically from Joon or not.

[mythical.6315]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And you think inventors aren't using past discoveries for their new inventions, but instead just work in a bubble, generating all the knowledge they have? That's... just not even how humanity progresses. Then there's of course also this:

 

And all of these advances magically occur over the course of 16 years.