Anet should not full reflect opinions of vocal minority in their patchnotes.

[flyingplanet.6912]

     Over the past years, I haven’t been able to see single positive feedback made to player suggestions posted in this forum. The vocal minority in this forum doesn’t want any changes to wvw, wants viable builds to be removed in pvp because they somehow found it overpowered, and refuses to get challenging pve maps. And for some reason, anet seems to be accepting their ideas into patch notes.What’s the result? No significant changes to wvw for almost 5 years, largest decline of players in pvp, and EoD maps are completely empty except meta hours.

 

They complain one thing and when it gets reflected in the patch, they complain two things. When that also gets reflected, they complain even more.

 

For those who don’t keep up with patch notes and this forum, I will tell you what happened in previous years.

 

PoF gets release --> They bash on anet for new specs having too much condition damage --> Condition damage gets nerfed --> They then complain about skills having too much aoe and number of targets --> Number of targets of every skills halved --> Now they say power oneshot builds are destroying new players --> power damage significantly reduced (feb 2020) --> Now no one is dying because all damage skills fell to oblivion --> Complains in this forum that fights are too long in pvp and wvw --> All sustain and buff skills changed or deleted --> Now in WvW, squads which have most number of pugs win the game instead of player skill and knowledge while in PvP, population largely declined to the point where gold rank is now top 250.

 

Honestly, this wouldn’t been an issue if anet was able to balance between the complaints and what actually creates fun. But the problem is they are not doing that. Maybe they think people in the forum (like 15~20 maximum) represents the majority of playerbase?

 

Under the name of equal balance and newbie-friendliness, the game is turning into eerie abandoned town that is slowly rotting into pieces. I do not know the exact statistic of the game, but I know that two of my dedicated wvw guild disbanded due to lack of participating guild members and commanders, all of my friends whom I introduced to this game right before EoD quitted after 3 weeks (aka they bought all three expansions), and HoT maps that were presumably hated the most in this forum are still the most populated maps in all three expansions.

 

At this point, I hope anet changes direction of their updates and give out exciting patches even though it may seem imbalanced. They should try out new types of skins (ex. Time-limited gender/race specific skins), new subscription systems that brings interesting features (like add-ons), new mounts in wvw, new maps/modes in wvw and pvp, new purchasable voice-lines, etc etc…

 

As long as the patch doesn’t include very obvious p2w systems, such as money affecting stats, I am fine with any changes at this point.

 

All in all, this is just a suggestion from a player that can potentially bring fun to players and money to the company. If anet doesn’t make any changes that’s totally fine because it’s their game and I fully respect their ownership of the game.

[Ashen.2907]

And yet the game's total population has grown (take any company's statements with a grain of salt of course).

I doubt very much that many of these changes are attempts to appease a small number of complaints. Some of those complaints however may match up with issues identified by ANet as needing to be examined. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Chicken or the egg?  Are the changes made due to complaints, or do the complaints reflect other metrics that Anet has?  

[Ryou.2398]

54 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

And yet the game's total population has grown (take any company's statements with a grain of salt of course).

I doubt very much that many of these changes are attempts to appease a small number of complaints. Some of those complaints however may match up with issues identified by ANet as needing to be examined. 

You cannot use the population has grown as a way to void the balancing issues of the past, the game has grown due to expansions and other mmos becoming worse and more greedy or turning out to be failures, many join mmos without paying much attention to balancing history.

[Ashen.2907]

9 minutes ago, Ryou.2398 said:

You cannot use the population has grown as a way to void the balancing issues of the past

I didn't.

[Reikou.7068]

20 minutes ago, Ryou.2398 said:

You cannot use the population has grown as a way to void the balancing issues of the past, the game has grown due to expansions and other mmos becoming worse and more greedy or turning out to be failures, many join mmos without paying much attention to balancing history.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but based on your posts, your argument is basically the following? 

"The changes anet have made to the game are bad because of my personal opinion.  This trumps argument that the changes made to the game are good as evidenced by increase in player population because I said so."  

Edited May 20, 2022 by Reikou.7068

[mythical.6315]

@flyingplanet.6912

How are you determining who is and isn’t the vocal minority?

Edited May 20, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Khisanth.2948]

ANet has both data collected from the game as well as results of surveys.

[AgentMoore.9453]

If it's any consolation, remember this old sales adage: A happy customer will tell 5 friends, an unhappy customer will tell 50.

What this means is that the wall of complaints is normal. Unhappy people will often go out of their way to broadcast their disappointment with a product or service. Happy people have nothing to complain about, and therefore no incentive to make a thread. The ratio of pleased-to-displeased feedback threads is about the same you'd expect to find in the suggestion box of any company, being mostly 'here's what you can do better' with a small sprinkling of 'I really liked <insert thing>'.

At the end of the day, sometimes ArenaNet appears to listen only to the complaints, but I largely suspect they read the feedback, read their hard data, and implement solutions based on a middle ground between the two. They'd be foolish not to.

[DarcShriek.5829]

37 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

@flyingplanet.6912

How are you determining who is and isn’t the vocal minority?

It simple, the OP and anyone who agrees with the OP's opinion are the majority, anyone that disagrees is the minority.  Isn't that how it's done on the interwebs?

[Rogue.8235]

3 hours ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

It simple, the OP and anyone who agrees with the OP's opinion are the majority, anyone that disagrees is the minority.  Isn't that how it's done on the interwebs?

Don't forget that those who agree with OP are correct and stating facts, and those disagreeing with OP are wrong and spreading lies.  Anything else is a cat.

That's what I remember from Interwebs 101.

 

[Raizel.8175]

Funny how people are already derailing the discussion with ad hominems and non-arguments. I dare say that it's a fact that there is a very loud (and toxic) minority on the forums that will criticise anything that threatens what you could call the status quo gameplay experience. The amount of hatred - and unreasonable drama - DE generated was baffling. Certain people in the GW2 community are very prone to drama in the first place and tend to exaggerate and generalize to an unreasoable extent. DE is one map yet its main meta event apparently signals the death of the game. There's a reason why the GW2 community is infamous for its drama-affinity in the wider MMORPG community.

It's very difficult to find a decent compromise here without having people derail discussions on purpose. In the latest DE discussions, there were actually a lot of hardcore players that wanted to find a reasonable compromise between the different sub-communities. There were several suggestions people made which were implemented and made the event easier yet the loud (and toxic) minority we're speaking about here still wants the event deleted entirely and continues to use the few "git gud"-arguments that were made as "proof" that "all" hardcore-players are toxic elitists.

I'm very happy that Arena Net seems to have matured and didn't nerf DE into oblivion since Arena Net does have a track record of overcorrecting. A few notable examples of the past would be Eater of Souls (PoF story) or Serpent's Ire. As the OP stated, this isn't limited to open world or story content. sPvP and WvW are also affected. Probably one of the most noteworthy examples of going from hero to zero would be Scourge which - arguably - needed some nerfs, but not to this extent. sPvP is in dire need of some new game modes apart from Conquest. If Conquest wouldn't be the only sPvP game mode, Scourge would never have received such amount of hatred.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Raizel.8175

[Khisanth.2948]

4 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

DE is one map yet its main meta event apparently signals the death of the game. There's a reason why the GW2 community is infamous for its drama-affinity in the wider MMORPG community.

It is not even a particularly challenging event. By this I mean the fact that for the successful runs that I've participated in there weren't really much coordinating and such. People mostly did the usual world boss things. There were no obvious differences between the successes and failures, all the runs were done after the most recent changes to it except for one run which was prior to the fix to the issue with excessive tail movement. Although maybe the lack of those differences is the problem. That points to the encounter being a DPS check.

4 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

A few notable examples of the past would be Eater of Souls (PoF story) or Serpent's Ire. As the OP stated, this isn't limited to open world or story content.

On the flip side there was Boneskinner.

[Dante.1508]

I hate to say it op but sadly you and your friends are the minority.. Its not a bad thing, its just the modes you love aren't what the majority crave.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news to you.

[GODh.3892]

On 5/20/2022 at 11:14 PM, Khisanth.2948 said:

ANet has both data collected from the game as well as results of surveys.

It's very easy to manipulate data to something you want it to be...

[Khisanth.2948]

1 minute ago, GODh.3892 said:

It's very easy to manipulate data to something you want it to be...

and you think OP's random guessing is better?

[GODh.3892]

 

3 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

and you think OP's random guessing is better?

No, but i think you argument was not so good either... Anet is a company and they only share info that they want to share with us.

Edited May 22, 2022 by GODh.3892
i kittened up a quote?

[Khisanth.2948]

1 minute ago, GODh.3892 said:

No, but i think you argument was not so good either... Anet is a company and they only share info that they want to share with us.

Who said anything about ANet sharing information? My point was simply that they have better data to base their decisions on and not just from trawling through the forum and social media. I've never seen them share any such information.

[GODh.3892]

9 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Who said anything about ANet sharing information? My point was simply that they have better data to base their decisions on and not just from trawling through the forum and social media. I've never seen them share any such information.

They do, like the success percentage of the EOD meta. But of course nobody of us is able to verify such details (but many question that 60%)....

Edited May 22, 2022 by GODh.3892
typo

[Kozumi.5816]

On 5/20/2022 at 2:03 PM, flyingplanet.6912 said:

new subscription systems that brings interesting features (like add-ons),

Paying monthly to use addons, wtf?

[Khisanth.2948]

55 minutes ago, GODh.3892 said:

They do, like the success percentage of the EOD meta. But of course nobody of us is able to verify such details (but many question that 60%)....

and do those people questioning have anything more to back it up than ANet?
If both sides are simply making stuff up then neither is any more credible than the other. Meanwhile there are also players claiming this or that is impossible despite clear evidence to the contrary such as the recent thread about the bandit champions/legendary executioner.

Then there is the guy who seems to be incapable of doing any content based on their posts across multiple threads.

The percent completion will depend on what counts as an attempt. One option is only count the number of times Soo-Won is fought because if you didn't make it that far then problems exist elsewhere and adjusting that fight isn't going to fix anything but a player would probably count that as an attempt.

[Kozumi.5816]

2 hours ago, GODh.3892 said:

They do, like the success percentage of the EOD meta. But of course nobody of us is able to verify such details (but many question that 60%)....

I win the DE meta 60% of the time every time.

[GODh.3892]

34 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

I win the DE meta 60% of the time every time.

That's not important...  The DE meta is group content and YOU are NOT a group. You can't solo that event. You are just lucky that you found a map which has enough people to do/understand that meta.

But things are slowly improving. I think it is just matter of time before more and more people understand that meta (just like Tequatl years many ago)...

Edited May 22, 2022 by GODh.3892
typos

[GODh.3892]

15 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

The percent completion will depend on what counts as an attempt. One option is only count the number of times Soo-Won is fought because if you didn't make it that far then problems exist elsewhere and adjusting that fight isn't going to fix anything but a player would probably count that as an attempt.

Of course it will... figures will look better when you compare 70% success rate with 100%, instead of 5% with 100%.

[Sugar Min.5834]

On 5/21/2022 at 2:18 AM, Ashen.2907 said:

And yet the game's total population has grown (take any company's statements with a grain of salt of course).

I doubt very much that many of these changes are attempts to appease a small number of complaints. Some of those complaints however may match up with issues identified by ANet as needing to be examined. 

If by population growth ANet meant the total game population regardless of active or dead accounts then of course it is growing. That number has been accumulating for 10 years. The more important number is the active population. And, judging from my four max guilds online populations, my friend list online populations, in-game metas, home cities and festivals populations, all these have shrunk by  a lot, no by MANY LOTS. And they got worse every year. FACTS.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Mil.3562
Please nerf more