Anyone notice , extremely heavy conditions Zerg's running in WVW, how do you defend, as we keep getting melted..

[SNIEVES.3964]

Hello, i run a Metabattle Support firebrand and even with popping all my stability and heals, the amount of conditions on me is so overwelming that it useless , you just die., been seeing alot of it going on, my guild is getting a little frustrated by it, any ideas.

[Voltekka.2375]

One word:

Cleansescrapper.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[SNIEVES.3964]

We have full support scrappers in our zerg but it doesn't seem like its working could it be either they are not doing their jobs or we don't have enough?

 

[Despot.3048]

Your scrappers are bad. 

[Telgum.6071]

Support Scrappers destroy condition setups. Adittionaly you can help by bringing a torch on your guard if you are DH.

[Custodio.6134]

exactly this. 
there are only 2 scenarios where conditions could theoretically screw you up in zerging. 

The first one: you get movement-impaired (stunned, crippled, immobilized), but the latter two shouldnt really be an issue, especially if you are the Firebrand (since you have access to resistance and stunbreaks). So if these are the reason you get screwed, it´s either your own, or your scrappers fault (yours, because you could have pulled resistance and/or a stunbreak, or your scrappers because he doesn´t cleanse enough to get rid of immobs etc). 

The second one would THEORETICALLY (note: it´s not even close to realistic) be a condition-overload with damaging conditions. However, you need to stack a huge load of damaging conditions to even notice that you are getting damaged. With the easy application of resolution, the condition-conversion from scrappers' "Purity of Purpose" (even after the nerfs, just the base mechanic of that trait is completely busted) and the high cleansing from scrappers, combined with their very solid sustained healing and burst-heals, there´s no chance you will even notice any condition damage at all. 
Assuming everyone does their job at least on a minimal levels and is not brain-afk facerolling the keyboard. 

Also it should be mentioned: 
As Support-FB it´s not your main task to do healing. While you can provide some assisting heals, your scaling on healing-power is pretty bad compared to scrapper. That´s why many guilds shifted away from a healing-focused build, to a full boonspam-build (or an aegis-block-spam build, at least before the aegis-nerfs). 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Custodio.6134
typo

[Za Shaloc.3908]

If you are struggling with condis in a group setting, I'd recommend swapping to double cleansing sigils if you aren't already (which you aren't if you are using the Metabattle build to a T). Even as a support, it's more important to be alive than it is to get a small healing or concentration boost. While that won't necessarily help your allies, people will generally have some level of personal cleanse that they can help themselves with. I personally love double cleansing on almost any WvW build because it generally allows for more fluid gameplay where you aren't forced to blow certain important CDs due to there being a couple condis on you.

 

Also, you can run Mantra of Lore if you aren't already.

[Littlekenny.4196]

21 hours ago, Custodio.6134 said:

The first one: you get movement-impaired (stunned, crippled, immobilized), but the latter two shouldnt really be an issue, especially if you are the Firebrand (since you have access to resistance and stunbreaks). 

 

There is only 1 FB skill which provides resistance and that is in a tome. Their only other access is from durability runes so that is unlikely to cover against a good immobeast when the scrapper can't keep up with cleansing.

[Guybrush.4762]

Note that supports are cleansing first and foremost for their subgroup of 5 people. If you only have 1 support for 20 players in your squad then you don't have enough cleansing/healing potential ; that could be the issue.

 

If it is then you could try playing either a support scrapper or a support tempest. When we say they destroy condi build we mean it. It is not odd for these two to clean 4-5 condi per second around them (and they can burst cleanse a much higher amount when needed).

 

If it is still not enough you could try antitoxine rune which both drastically improve the cleansing you receive and reduce the duration of conditions that do come your way.

 

If it is still not enough note that generally speaking condition damage dealer in zerg are typically found in group when the com just gathered a lot a roamers around them which generally create a less organised entity than your average guild raid. You can abuse their lack of discipline by pressuring a selected few lost sheep. Such squad generally don't have enough support to handle spikes of damage but the nebula of pick up player is protecting the core of the squad, the ones that are actually sticking to the com and moving in an orderly fashion. Once you did enough downs and/or baited their bomb, charge forward and power through them.

 

Hope that helps. 🙂

Edited May 22, 2022 by Guybrush.4762

[SWI.4127]

Are you sure it's the condition ticks that are  killing you and not just normal power damage?   Most groups these days use power because condition damage is so unreliable with the amount of cleanses.  I've seen less experienced groups assume conditions are killing them just because they their bar is filled with conditions when they die.  Really what is happening is all their boons are getting corrupted into conditions, then they are getting spiked with power damage because they no longer have protection, they have vulnerability stacked, etc. 

[MedievalThings.5417]

Conditions are actually being applied faster than I can cleanse as a minstrel scrapper with antitoxin runes (also tried Nature's Bounty, similar results), elixir gun and all.  Even timing everything as close to perfect as possible, full condition zergs suck.  It's even worse with the perma-immobilize bug still being a thing.  These aren't conversions, just full condition blobs spamming stank faster than I can remove it.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Ubi.4136

[Voltekka.2375]

To those saying "Conditions get reapplied" etc. In this meta, condi builds arent used. Power is the way to go, EXACTLY because of the looong time it takes for condies to be actually efficient (damaging condies). What kills is immob with 35 cover condies (hyperbole, but you get what i mean) and the bomb that follows. Most condies come from boon corruption. It is highly unlikely (in my experience, at least) do die from torment in blobs. Or bleeding. Burn... Ok, does more dmg, but it gets converted so aegis, so...

Second is the absurd amount of CC that pins you in place. 

[Aeolus.3615]

The only power builds ive seen last months are reapers everything else are minstrells or condi bunkers stats, at minimal some are using celestials.

There are some groups that run power specs but they  mostly only gank 5+  vs 1 to 3 players.

 

300-400 damage 100B while im runing mostly zealost stats....

700 damage Lb2, it has been rare to see a ranger doing decent damage, cough some runing pretty idiotit stats...

and then a waterfall of condis and CC

Edited May 23, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Aeolus.3615]

On 5/21/2022 at 8:32 AM, Telgum.6071 said:

Support Scrappers destroy condition setups. Adittionaly you can help by bringing a torch on your guard if you are DH.

Mesmer boon removals complete wreck scrappers : ) condi to boon conversion

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Strider Pj.2193]

25 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Mesmer boon removals complete wreck scrappers : ) condi to boon conversion

 

Not in the boon ball setup.  Small group?  Absolutely.  More than 30?  Far less likely

[Aeolus.3615]

10 minutes ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

Not in the boon ball setup.  Small group?  Absolutely.  More than 30?  Far less likely

Well in the boonball the only going melee are the minstrells in 1st place whatever class&build they are  :S wi and most will spam boons mindlessly wich can help preditct some parts of the combat.

Having lots of mesmers in those boonballs groups create a big impact hitting that 1st push, issue might be that is  needed way more. mesmer bombings.

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 minute ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Well in the boonball the only going melee are the minstrells in 1st place whatever class&build they are  :S 

I dont think theres pure melee*( as build to go damage on melee) groups in the gameplay, they are like a small subgroup in those big groups.

Having mesmers even on those groups create a big impact, issue might be that is  needed way more. mesmer bombings.

Having a Mesmer is definitely vital.  (Our group uses chrono mostly). The boon stripping is quite effective.

 

Most of our comp is ranged/melee hybrid.  Yes, there are minstrel toons in there.  But t the damage is coming from over 40% power builds.

Yes, that is too much support for some people as the boon uptime is too long.

 

What I wish we could see was a better distribution of boons from more classes, with each class not being able to place as many stacks, and not as many boons.  (So, ready access to 2, not 4-6 different boons, and less volume of the individual boons).   And bring down the duration so that in order to build for 75% uptime or more,  you gut other aspects of a classes defense or attack.  
 

Basically, finding ways to make the timing of boon application more critical.  Not just spamming buttons.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Boon ball meta still seems to reign supreme from this perspective OP. 

[Telgum.6071]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Mesmer boon removals complete wreck scrappers : ) condi to boon conversion

 

Well yes and scourges can wreck guardians through corruptions, doesn't mean guardians are not viable.

[Aeolus.3615]

6 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Well yes and scourges can wreck guardians through corruptions, doesn't mean guardians are not viable.

yeah but the amount of scourges that blobs tend to have... its most times the larger core of some blobs ic or close to 50% even smaller 20-30 tend to run lots of scourges, i assume adding more mesmers(chronos) would be far more effective ?

 

Besides mass quickness+stealth spam tends to wreck netcode to the clients that need to render all that stealth on/off with quickness.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Easy answer. 

Most players haven't fought real condi combs since HoT. 

Nobody is used to it. Add the fact that most of them never had to deal with even the limited condi spam because of them having a Scrapper on their tail 24/7.

Basically:

Good Scrapper - > condi not good. 

Condi not good - > less condi builds. 

Less condi builds - > Scrapper can slack. 

Slacking Scrapper - > condi builds do ouch. 

 

You also had Spellbreaker around before they deleted them. And they removed condies too. 

I also see alot less Tempest around which is even less condi clean. 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Kozumi.5816]

On 5/21/2022 at 3:20 AM, SNIEVES.3964 said:

We have full support scrappers in our zerg but it doesn't seem like its working could it be either they are not doing their jobs or we don't have enough?

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fumigate

Press this

[ArchonWing.9480]

On 5/21/2022 at 12:12 AM, SNIEVES.3964 said:

Hello, i run a Metabattle Support firebrand and even with popping all my stability and heals, the amount of conditions on me is so overwelming that it useless , you just die., been seeing alot of it going on, my guild is getting a little frustrated by it, any ideas.

Because stab does nothing against condis. You should never be popping it all at once. You need to cycle it and not waste all of your books.

As a result, you are most likely not supporting the rest of your party properly and thus any engis/eles you have that could potentially cure your condis are being CC"d to high heaven.

A tip is to make good use out of Tome 3. Skill 4 for the resistance and stunbreak on yourself. That will usually get you out of immobolize which is pretty much the only condi besides chill that will sink you and you may erroneously think you're being hard CC'd and wasting stunbreaks.  But resistance takes care of that.

If you still can't handle it,. then run energy/cleansing sigils. Suboptimal but if you die, you hose your entire party so it may be worth it.

Edited May 29, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Riba.3271]

Conditions aren't the ones killing you. They're just filling you with conditions due to how boonrip and scourge works.

Just don't step in a breach or middle of 10 people and you will be fine. It is enough to hit 5 people, no reason to hit excess.

As a cleanser, in past metas used to be standard to only cleanse conditions that matter and save panic cleanses for panic situation. Maybe you are just wasting too much cleanse on useless things like removing poison or burning from full HP allies?

Regarding builds, try running cleansing sigils in your guild. Especially potent on spellbreakers, tempest, scrappers and firebrands to save their AoE cleanses for allies.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Threather.9354

[Skada.1362]

Remove all kinds of boon sharing and force the zerglings to keybind dodge. Game saved, you're welcome!