June 28th Patch Notes : Ranger Changes

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

now that Fury will be applied a lot in groups, will Remorseless Rangers finally be viable?

[enkeny.6937]

4 minutes ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

now that Fury will be applied a lot in groups, will Remorseless Rangers finally be viable?

Maybe, storm spirit will help. but it is a bit random, I think. We will see it. 
I use Remorseless with my untamed in open word, because you cleave many mob with 1 GS ambush 🙂 
 

[enkeny.6937]

2 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

On that note, I feel like 4s base alac is super benevolent by anet if you compare it to the abysmal base durations warrior and herald got for their quickness generation, to the point where you can more or less upkeep alac with as little as 2 spirits (stone + frost).

Yes it is, You can actually make 100% uptime with only 1 spirit (untamed) or with 2 spirit for core / druid (depends on the boon needed, but if not for boon, then water (because heal skill not really relevant) and storm (it is little, but at least deal damage))
I still missing the pulsing stability on Spirit of Nature. (or at least with trait 1/ activation)

[BumboJumbo.1308]

I think overall the balance patch is fine. Druid becomes more different in that you either go might generation if might is lacking in party or more healing if might can be easily achieved by others. 

Soulbeast was and probably still will be super strong for its dps and massive support from its one-of-a-kind utility from moa stance, dolyak stance, vulture, and wolf stance. 

And then you have untamed which got a buff from the spirit rework. Now untamed can output alacrity with no boon duration.

Though untamed probably still won't see much use depending if the spirits act the same exact way as it does now. Easily killable, annoying reposition, meh boon uptime(when activated, not passive), annoying creation time. 

[NamelessOne.6815]

So.. OneWolfPack

On Soulbeast:

Before: 12s duration (8s base +50% Leader of The Pack), 0.25s damage interval = 48 hits

48 hits * 0.63 = 30.24 total coefficient

After: 7.2s duration (6s base + 20% Leader of The Pack), 1s damage interval = 7 hits

7hits * 0.95 = 6.65 total

Overall 78% damage nerf

 

On teammates:

Before: 4s duration (8s base -50% Leader of The Pack on allies), 0.25s damage interval = 16 hits

16 hits * 0.63 = 10.08 total coefficient

After: 3s duration (6s base -50% Leader of The Pack on allies), 1s damage interval = 3 hits

3 hits * 0.95 = 2.85 total

Overall 72% damage nerf

 

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 hour ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

I think overall the balance patch is fine. Druid becomes more different in that you either go might generation if might is lacking in party or more healing if might can be easily achieved by others. 

Soulbeast was and probably still will be super strong for its dps and massive support from its one-of-a-kind utility from moa stance, dolyak stance, vulture, and wolf stance. 

And then you have untamed which got a buff from the spirit rework. Now untamed can output alacrity with no boon duration.

Though untamed probably still won't see much use depending if the spirits act the same exact way as it does now. Easily killable, annoying reposition, meh boon uptime(when activated, not passive), annoying creation time. 

Soulbeast is middle tier in terms of DPS atm, it’s only “strong” in terms of ranger specs damage output. Soulbeast is already outperformed by alot of other DPS options… these nerfs will straight up delete soulbeast as a DPS option.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

8 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Soulbeast is middle tier in terms of DPS atm, it’s only “strong” in terms of ranger specs damage output. Soulbeast is already outperformed by alot of other DPS options… these nerfs will straight up delete soulbeast as a DPS option.

How much dps do you think soulbeast will do post-patch?

Or how much dps do you think will be shaved off from its 34k benchmark for power, 35k for condi, and 37k for hybrid. (According to snowcrows)

[Tres.5427]

In what world was gutting One Wolf Pack the play when ranger has absolutely nothing else going for it? Does the dev working on ranger even play a ranger?

[Sirius.4510]

50 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

How much dps do you think soulbeast will do post-patch?

Or how much dps do you think will be shaved off from its 34k benchmark for power, 35k for condi, and 37k for hybrid. (According to snowcrows)

It's kind of fuzzy logic since I am not sure precisely how much of the DPS it amounts to, but I suspect condi will be the only spec that can still exceed 30k. Maybe greatsword pslb if we're really lucky since it's less dependent on burst damage, but the burst is still such a big component I'm just not sure.

[Sandzibar.5134]

36 minutes ago, Tres.5427 said:

In what world was gutting One Wolf Pack the play when ranger has absolutely nothing else going for it? Does the dev working on ranger even play a ranger?

 

Here's an "apparent" quote from the discord some of the balance devs post on.

Quote

"ANet_Solar — 06/10/2022
Not that much- isn't OWP only a 4s duration on allies?
I haven't played Ranger, so I'm operating based on GW2Wiki here"

 

Source:

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Sandzibar.5134

[Tres.5427]

I was giving those comments the benefit of the doubt as a dev commenting about stuff they weren't working on but these changes are ridiculous. It basically had to be someone who never even made a ranger before let alone played it.

 

They should force whatever dev did the ranger changes to play a ranger for a week and I guarantee there'd be buffs everywhere after they did because of the state of ranger

[NazzyDragon.9127]

Read the patch notes. Seriously considering uninstalling. WTF will soulbeast be now? Druid also seems like it's going to be incredibly mediocre. Untamed still untamed. Boggled at these changes. Some seem okay, most seem absolutely insane.

[Milar.4930]

14 hours ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Icy Maul (Polar Bear): Fixed an issue in which the incorrect condition was being applied to enemies.

 

Ok,that does it...Let it be known Ranger is now my new main henceforth from this point forever more thus it shall be   o.O 

[anduriell.6280]

Trevor and abyssisis are correct, but the nerf to leader of the pack will really bash soulbeast in wvw. 
lleader of the pack will now increase just 1 second the duration of the instances and still no sharing the full duration with Allies.

yet we will see peepos crying in forums because a pew pew hurt their character.

it is sad soulbeast is being pushed for the tower camper pewpew. And Druid will bring nothing to table now, no unique buffs there will be no reason at all to bring it in pve. 
 

spirits no mobile yet, leader of the pack not sharing full duration yet. Nothing changed to bring more build variety and Anet just nerfed the 2 previous elites trying to push up the unplayed as I already announced.

[aymnad.9023]

17 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

The nerf to OWP is not going to be more DPS at all, it's going to be a definite drop in DPS. They are giving it 20 less seconds on CD, but then increasing the interval in which the strikes can land from once every 1/4th second, to once every 1 second. <- Despite the reduced CD and slightly enhanced coefficient, 1/4th second to 1 second is going to absolutely kill the good DPS on OWP because skills like LB5 LB2 Axe5 won't be able to benefit those damage procs on every strike now.

Gonna be a big stupid drop in DPS for absolutely no reason when Power Soulbeast was mediocre benchmarking to begin with.

edit : I am not expecting people check my message on page 5 but it seems like the benchmark with gs will be the same.

Did you really read the full section you quoted? It does not look like you did. Here is exactly what I said. 

• Leader of the pack : Sad. (because this is a nerf)

• One wolf Pack : Omg that hurts! This is a massive burst nerf! (here is your burst nerf mention)

I guess the idea is to make power ranger have a smoother dps curve with the skirmishing buffs. (This means : because of the increased damage to hunter's tactic). The overall dps (understand average dps) still seems higher but this is not going to work well in fractals (staying behind the boss is not guaranteed) and I would have hoped to see something else like a buff to allies. I hope to never see this in PvP in the future !!!

Edited June 25, 2022 by aymnad.9023

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Direct quote from anet balance dev when asked about OWP change.

Can't believe this is real:

"ANet_Solar — 06/10/2022
Not that much- isn't OWP only a 4s duration on allies?
I haven't played Ranger, so I'm operating based on GW2Wiki here"

The changes were made by a guy who doesn't play Ranger. This is actually happening right now.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

10 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Did you really read the full section you quoted? It does not look like you did. Here is exactly what I said. 

• Leader of the pack : Sad. (because this is a nerf)

• One wolf Pack : Omg that hurts! This is a massive burst nerf! (here is your burst nerf mention)

I guess the idea is to make power ranger have a smoother dps curve with the skirmishing buffs. (This means : because of the increased damage to hunter's tactic). The overall dps (understand average dps) still seems higher but this is not going to work well in fractals (staying behind the boss is not guaranteed) and I would have hoped to see something else like a buff to allies. I hope to never see this in PvP in the future !!!

You didn't need to repeat yourself.

You said the overall DPS is going to be higher and you are dead wrong on that.

Absolutely no idea from where or how you are drawing that conclusion, but I don't feel the need to discuss this with you seeing as how every other person in this thread is able to clearly see through simple mathematical analysis that this patch is going to drop Soulbeast DPS significantly.

I'm talking about actual benchamarks here, while running meta worthy team oriented builds, playing in T4 CMs & Raids & Strikes.

This patch is in no way a QoL or reasonable fix or anything like that. It's just an unnecessary unwarranted amputation of Soulbeast DPS output, which was mediocre compared to other classes to begin with.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Teratus.2859]

Loosing the 5% extra damage on Frost Spirit isn't a good trade off for more might..

Might is abundant and so easy for any group (or even a solo player) to be overloaded with.. but that extra 5% damage from the frost spirit is what made it so appealing.

It was like giving the entire party an extra sup sigil of force.

 

I used to love spirits back in the day, ran them all the time but stopped when they were changed to be paper summons that would get wiped out by a mild breeze.

I was hoping these upcoming changes would make them pretty awesome again but I don't think they hit the mark sadly.

[Levetty.1279]

8 hours ago, enkeny.6937 said:

Maybe, storm spirit will help. but it is a bit random, I think. We will see it. 
I use Remorseless with my untamed in open word, because you cleave many mob with 1 GS ambush 🙂 
 

Remorseless only effects the first mob hit.

[Abyssisis.3971]

3 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

How much dps do you think soulbeast will do post-patch?

Or how much dps do you think will be shaved off from its 34k benchmark for power, 35k for condi, and 37k for hybrid. (According to snowcrows)

I don’t do math, but I would say quite a bit.

When you have classes scoring +40k dps, there isn’t any reason to nerf a class doing significantly less, other than to make something else look more attractive, ie nerf soulbeast into the ground makes untamed look better.

 

[Markus.6415]

11 hours ago, Soilder.3607 said:

I think you guys are missing an important change to Lingering Light. It currently gives a 50% increase in outgoing healing. They are going to reduce it to a 20% increase in outgoing healing. That is a 30% nerf in outgoing healing while in Celestial Avatar state. That is significant. However, Natural Mender is being increased to 1.5% per stack, and Natural Mender is essentially maintained permanently at maximum stacks during combat because of how much healing the Druid does, so the healing decrease while in Celestial Avatar state will realistically be a 25% reduction instead of 30%. Not sure why they would go that route.

Yeah, but in PvE no one took "Lingering Light", because you needed "Grace of the Land" to keep up 25 stacks might. With the changes to might generation from all the professions you might be actually able to take lingering light now permanently.

 

Healtempest on the other hand will have to sacrifice it's healing on Aura trait now if it wants to share Alac...

[BumboJumbo.1308]

10 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

I don’t do math, but I would say quite a bit.

When you have classes scoring +40k dps, there isn’t any reason to nerf a class doing significantly less, other than to make something else look more attractive, ie nerf soulbeast into the ground makes untamed look better.

 

Maybe it was to make untamed more appealing but it could also be that anet wanted to nerf soulbeasts unique buffs due to its uniqueness which is what anet wanted to do with this balance patch with all classes. 

Also, just because a class can do a 40k dps benchmark (which is unrealistic in on itself and 99.99% of the population can't achieve that number) doesn't mean that neither that level of damage is acceptable nor something like soulbeasts benchmark when it's lower and nerfed. 

[Abyssisis.3971]

4 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Maybe it was to make untamed more appealing but it could also be that anet wanted to nerf soulbeasts unique buffs due to its uniqueness which is what anet wanted to do with this balance patch with all classes. 

Also, just because a class can do a 40k dps benchmark (which is unrealistic in on itself and 99.99% of the population can't achieve that number) doesn't mean that neither that level of damage is acceptable nor something like soulbeasts benchmark when it's lower and nerfed. 

If that was the case, all unique buffs would of been looked at, yet they weren’t. You believe what you want to believe, I’ve been around long enough to know how anet works and it’s nothing more than nerfing old specs to sell copies of the expansions and unfortunately soulbeast had to be gutted to make way for untamed.

Imo, the idiot who decided on ranger balance changes should probably just stay away from balancing decisions in the future.

 

[enkeny.6937]

39 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

I don’t do math, but I would say quite a bit.

When you have classes scoring +40k dps, there isn’t any reason to nerf a class doing significantly less, other than to make something else look more attractive, ie nerf soulbeast into the ground makes untamed look better.

 

I'm curious, if skirmishing will help maintain the dps (+5% while flanking), and stance share is not needed, that means +10% damage (ok, it has requirements), condition soulbeast maybe use Oppressive Superiority too. And One wolf pack still the only ranger elite, that deals power damage as elite skill. (entangle won't deal more, is it? 😨 )

16 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Maybe it was to make untamed more appealing but it could also be that anet wanted to nerf soulbeasts unique buffs due to its uniqueness which is what anet wanted to do with this balance patch with all classes. 

Also, just because a class can do a 40k dps benchmark (which is unrealistic in on itself and 99.99% of the population can't achieve that number) doesn't mean that neither that level of damage is acceptable nor something like soulbeasts benchmark when it's lower and nerfed. 

the problem is: ok 99.99% don't do 40k. but 99.99% don't do 35k as a 35k benchmark ranger too. Doing 12.5% less damage is the problem. I don't know, how the stance share counted, so it may be less, but with Oppressive Superiority we still far from 40k.

I still want to wait for new benchmarks to say haw bad soulbest is. (But I highly doubt we will be top dps)

[enkeny.6937]

7 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

If that was the case, all unique buffs would of been looked at, yet they weren’t. You believe what you want to believe, I’ve been around long enough to know how anet works and it’s nothing more than nerfing old specs to sell copies of the expansions and unfortunately soulbeast had to be gutted to make way for untamed.

Imo, the idiot who decided on ranger balance changes should probably just stay away from balancing decisions in the future.

 

I agree, why guardian gives burning then wit virtue 1....

the second part: No, it is not for making the new spec or expansion. They have a tendency to forget ranger. Sometimes they even say it, that ranger will be later, like the druid, now the spirits. When they announce the changes and said they don't make the changes at the time of expansion, I need about 2 minutes for the same concept. 
This time: reworked spirits, switch the spotter, some bug fix, we are done!
Oh wait, nerf One Wolf Pack, because every soulbeast use it (because no other damage option, but don't look at the reason, it should be op that's the only reason).
Last minute: Can we implement the auto cast to the mech? No? Wait do we made changes to to untamed? (- what is "untamed"? -)Let the hammer do some more damage, It should be enough. 

Hammer Still don't have Pet skill yet! It is a basic Ranger weapon skill concept, and still missing! I hope they don't need 2 years again to realise this, like with the druid staff....