June 28th Patch Notes : Ranger Changes

[Dragana.1497]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Direct quote from anet balance dev when asked about OWP change.

Can't believe this is real:

"ANet_Solar — 06/10/2022
Not that much- isn't OWP only a 4s duration on allies?
I haven't played Ranger, so I'm operating based on GW2Wiki here"

The changes were made by a guy who doesn't play Ranger. This is actually happening right now.

 

Don't know if I should laugh or cry. 😐

[BumboJumbo.1308]

34 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

If that was the case, all unique buffs would of been looked at, yet they weren’t. You believe what you want to believe, I’ve been around long enough to know how anet works and it’s nothing more than nerfing old specs to sell copies of the expansions and unfortunately soulbeast had to be gutted to make way for untamed.

Imo, the idiot who decided on ranger balance changes should probably just stay away from balancing decisions in the future.

 

What unique buffs haven't been looked at?

[Gorem.8104]

Why was One Wolf Pack nerfed? Was it really that strong in pve? 

[Abyssisis.3971]

8 minutes ago, enkeny.6937 said:

I agree, why guardian gives burning then wit virtue 1....

the second part: No, it is not for making the new spec or expansion. They have a tendency to forget ranger. Sometimes they even say it, that ranger will be later, like the druid, now the spirits. When they announce the changes and said they don't make the changes at the time of expansion, I need about 2 minutes for the same concept. 
This time: reworked spirits, switch the spotter, some bug fix, we are done!
Oh wait, nerf One Wolf Pack, because every soulbeast use it (because no other damage option, but don't look at the reason, it should be op that's the only reason).
Last minute: Can we implement the auto cast to the mech? No? Wait do we made changes to to untamed? (- what is "untamed"? -)Let the hammer do some more damage, It should be enough. 

Hammer Still don't have Pet skill yet! It is a basic Ranger weapon skill concept, and still missing! I hope they don't need 2 years again to realise this, like with the druid staff....

Yeah, they forget about rangers unless it’s for nerfs, then they bring out the nerf hammer and  wreak us which is exactly what they did in this patch with soulbeast and the only reason why they would do it is to make untamed look better in the hope soulbeast players buy EoD.

I’m not holding my breath for any real improvements to untamed because it would require fixing ranger pets which anet will not do, it’s number changes and that’s it unfortunately and so it’s easier and cheaper for anet to nerf soulbeasts than to make any real changes to untamed. 

 

[Abyssisis.3971]

10 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

What unique buffs haven't been looked at?

Vampiric presence for core nerco for one, whether you consider quick fire and ashes of the just for firebrand is up to you. Those are just off the top of my head.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

Just now, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Vampiric presence for core nerco for one, whether you consider quick fire and ashes of the just for firebrand is up to you. Those are just off the top of my head.

Are they significant enough that people would want firebrand or necro for those unique buffs? Or they extra little bonuses?

[Abyssisis.3971]

2 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Are they significant enough that people would want firebrand or necro for those unique buffs? Or they extra little bonuses?

No, let’s remove every other classes unique buffs and just all play guardians and nercos, it’s not like there any reasons to play anything else now anyway.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

2 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

No, let’s remove every other classes unique buffs and just all play guardians and nercos, it’s not like there any reasons to play anything else now anyway.

If the answer is no then what are you trying to argue? 

[Abyssisis.3971]

Just now, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

If the answer is no then what are you trying to argue? 

The point I’m making is changing the unique buffs removes the reasons to take specific classes over another, particularly when certain classes are outperforming other classes providing the same role.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

5 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Why was One Wolf Pack nerfed? Was it really that strong in pve? 

Not at all.

You can go to snowcrows.com and compare & contrast benchmarks.

Soulbeast Power is currently benching around 34.5k, whilst other pure DPS is benching around 38k - 41k. Then you have certain other things that are pumping out like permanent Quickness & Alacrity, and they are still benching around 36k+ despite being a Support class.

This nerf to OWP is just unwarranted and unneeded. If anything, Soulbeast needed a buff.

I get the "idea" behind better normalizing its sustained damage output to be a bit higher, while lowering the top burst damage on OWP, but the way they did it will be an overall significant downgrade to its general DPS output.

I get the difference between sustained damage output and burst damage output, in relation to actual boss mechanics. Sometimes a Soulbeast who benches 34.5k could actually be dealing more damage vs. a certain boss than a 41k benchmark class who achieves that 41k through sustained damage output with no real burst, when the boss only allows for DPSing different certain phases that favors the rhythm of the Soulbeast burst. I get it. But if that is the case, let it be the case. That burst is all the Soulbeast has going for it, and it's ok to let the burst class be good vs. certain bosses that favor that rhythm and to let the sustained DPS class be good at other bosses, who favor sustained DPS.

What I DO NOT GET is this "idea" behind making all classes the same so everything is the same so people can play whatever they want. Look, the reason why a game like Smash Bros is fun, is because every character is different. Over the course of investing years of play into a game like this, it is actually fun to go on the journey of learning how new characters work. If every character was a mirror character that did the same thing, let's say you turn on Street Fighter and every character is Ryu and only Ryu, the game would be boring. Arenanet needs to dial back the power creep and eliminate this philosophy of making everything do the same thing. It's making the game boring and too easy. Even in competitive modes like pvp, this design philosophy is destorying our classic job roles and making the game bland, because everything does the same thing.

Let us not forget that Chess is a better game than Checkers, because the pieces in Chess all do different things. This makes the game way more fun on the journey to master it, as well as creates a much larger margin of difference between new players and master players. <- This is what people want. In Checkers, the game is dull because all the pieces do the same thing and due to this, there is little difference between a new player and a master. There is so little difference actually, that a master Checker player will only beat a new Checker player while having a few pieces left on his board. But in Chess, the master can absolutely destroy the amateur while losing few pieces at all. This is because the pieces in Chess all do different things, which provides way way more counterplay and room for psychological stimulation.

Sometimes less is more. Arenanet needs to remember this when it comes to gaming, and dial back on the power creep. The game was better when each class had individuality and a reason to take the journey to play each class so you could experience those individualities.

 

[BumboJumbo.1308]

1 minute ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

The point I’m making is changing the unique buffs removes the reasons to take specific classes over another, particularly when certain classes are outperforming other classes providing the same role.

Sure, but then you'll have groups that want specific classes like ranger for spotter and spirits or warriors with banners. 

This personally, new players, and on anets side wouldn't be desirable as it would detour people from playing content.

But If you want people to selectively choose what class someone is allowed to join in the party/squad based on unique buffs then ok, it's a matter of disagreement.

[Strider.7849]

In regards to druid, if I'm understanding this correctly - a spirit will provide a specific boon every 3 seconds for 5 people. So basically it's like a worse version of a core guardian shout, with only one boon instead of multiple - and it can be killed, bleed out if not healed, and their positioning needs to be constantly micromanaged.

 

The removal of the unique on strike attacks was.. a poor choice if this is correct. Druid is currently one of the, if not, the lowest, DPS spec in the game. With the loss of the on strike attacks + spotter, is there any reason to bring a druid that you guys can predict? Secondly what will the elite spirit do if the unique effects are removed? 1 stack of stability and a super long wind up ressurect on a long cooldown?

 

The changes to soulbeast were pretty bad as well, especially one wolf pack. For an elite spec that benches 35k, no where near the other classes - now not only is the skill lowered in damage and both personal/shared durations but it's also lost its most important aspect - burst/rapid DPS. Soulbeast will still be playable in WvW because it's got mobility and not super reliant on the pet a.i. though.. and as for PvE it'll still be used because.. well, it's the best we got.

 

The untamed getting an increase in damage was just lol. I feel like, as opposed to the other professions, they are pushing/forcing us into playing untamed not through buffs or changes - but rather through nerfing everything else into becoming unplayable.

 

One last thing, with all the things they said about the changes coming this summer I was really looking forward to this patch.. now after reading the notes I feel this is probably the worst one they've ever made since launch. Even worse than the Aquaman patch in years past (promises of big buffs to ranger and we received under water skills improvements).  Just.. 😞

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Strider.7849

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 minute ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Sure, but then you'll have groups that want specific classes like ranger for spotter and spirits or warriors with banners. 

This personally, new players, and on anets side wouldn't be desirable as it would detour people from playing content.

But If you want people to selectively choose what class someone is allowed to join in the party/squad based on unique buffs then ok, it's a matter of disagreement.

Unless it’s purely a pug group, any organised group is going to optimise their composition anyway. 

[Kodama.6453]

32 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Not at all.

You can go to snowcrows.com and compare & contrast benchmarks.

Soulbeast Power is currently benching around 34.5k, whilst other pure DPS is benching around 38k - 41k. Then you have certain other things that are pumping out like permanent Quickness & Alacrity, and they are still benching around 36k+ despite being a Support class.

This nerf to OWP is just unwarranted and unneeded. If anything, Soulbeast needed a buff.

I get the "idea" behind better normalizing its sustained damage output to be a bit higher, while lowering the top burst damage on OWP, but the way they did it will be an overall significant downgrade to its general DPS output.

I get the difference between sustained damage output and burst damage output, in relation to actual boss mechanics. Sometimes a Soulbeast who benches 34.5k could actually be dealing more damage vs. a certain boss than a 41k benchmark class who achieves that 41k through sustained damage output with no real burst, when the boss only allows for DPSing different certain phases that favors the rhythm of the Soulbeast burst. I get it. But if that is the case, let it be the case. That burst is all the Soulbeast has going for it, and it's ok to let the burst class be good vs. certain bosses that favor that rhythm and to let the sustained DPS class be good at other bosses, who favor sustained DPS.

What I DO NOT GET is this "idea" behind making all classes the same so everything is the same so people can play whatever they want. Look, the reason why a game like Smash Bros is fun, is because every character is different. Over the course of investing years of play into a game like this, it is actually fun to go on the journey of learning how new characters work. If every character was a mirror character that did the same thing, let's say you turn on Street Fighter and every character is Ryu and only Ryu, the game would be boring. Arenanet needs to dial back the power creep and eliminate this philosophy of making everything do the same thing. It's making the game boring and too easy. Even in competitive modes like pvp, this design philosophy is destorying our classic job roles and making the game bland, because everything does the same thing.

Let us not forget that Chess is a better game than Checkers, because the pieces in Chess all do different things. This makes the game way more fun on the journey to master it, as well as creates a much larger margin of difference between new players and master players. <- This is what people want. In Checkers, the game is dull because all the pieces do the same thing and due to this, there is little difference between a new player and a master. There is so little difference actually, that a master Checker player will only beat a new Checker player while having a few pieces left on his board. But in Chess, the master can absolutely destroy the amateur while losing few pieces at all. This is because the pieces in Chess all do different things, which provides way way more counterplay and room for psychological stimulation.

Sometimes less is more. Arenanet needs to remember this when it comes to gaming, and dial back on the power creep. The game was better when each class had individuality and a reason to take the journey to play each class so you could experience those individualities.

 

I think your comparisons here are a bit faulty.

Classes in GW2 are still doing things in different ways. Just because all classes get access to boons like quickness or alacrity doesn't mean that they are all playing the same way. Compare the gameplay of a warrior and a catalyst, for example. They might both be able to put out quickness now, but their general gameplay as well as how they are putting out that quickness is fundamentally different.

To go back to your chess comparison: Chess pieces are all doing the same thing, just in different ways. What they do is that they can take away enemy pieces, it's not like one chess piece can recover another chess piece that got taken away or that one chess piece can buff other chess pieces around it by giving it additional movement options.

They do the same thing: beating other pieces. They just do it in different ways by having different movement patterns. The only chess piece which is special among them is the king, since defeating that piece means you win the game.

[Rysdude.3824]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Direct quote from anet balance dev when asked about OWP change.

Can't believe this is real:

"ANet_Solar — 06/10/2022
Not that much- isn't OWP only a 4s duration on allies?
I haven't played Ranger, so I'm operating based on GW2Wiki here"

The changes were made by a guy who doesn't play Ranger. This is actually happening right now.

GW2 is the only game I play. Is this normal for MMORPGs? Its rather embarrassing for this company. I’d never admit that

[BumboJumbo.1308]

52 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Unless it’s purely a pug group, any organised group is going to optimise their composition anyway. 

If it's a pick up group on lfg then anyone should be allowed to join, which is what I'm mainly focusing on in terms of balance.

If it's a cm pick up group or guild group forming to create the most optimised composition then they can selectively choose all they want.

[aymnad.9023]

17 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Time for some OWP math! (correct me if wrong, by showing it)(ticks are counted by technically possible):

-lower duration from 12s to 7,25s and ally duration from 4s to 3s.
-current number of team ticks: 112 / new number: 19 | current solo ticks: 48 / new number: 7
-lower cooldown which changes uptime by 25%.
-power coeffi goes up by 0.32.
-ranger power with 25 might is about 3607. 

OWP tick 0.63=604 | team tick damage= 67 648 / solo tick damage= 28 992
OWP tick 0.95=743 | team tick damage= 14 117  / solo tick damage= 5 201 

The change of 1 tick is: 18,71% | The change of team ticks is: -379,18% | The change of solo ticks is: -557,43%

With 25% higher CD uptime:
The DPS difference of OWP in team: -354,18%
The DPS difference of OWP solo: -532.43%

You used the trait leader of the pack for this right? So you went for a double nerf.  If you use Oppressive superiority then the difference is that the new OwP deals about 38% of the previous dmg. 

 

[Dante.1508]

Soulbeast bit the big one now huh... And people are still surprised at this point lol.

[Levetty.1279]

2 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Why was One Wolf Pack nerfed? Was it really that strong in pve? 

It was very strong but Ranger is so weak in general it needed really strong stuff like OWP just to get to its mediocre dps numbers.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Levetty.1279

[aymnad.9023]

2 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Why was One Wolf Pack nerfed? Was it really that strong in pve? 

It was one of the last ways to push power damage groups in fractals speedrun.

[Dante.1508]

 

12 hours ago, Rysdude.3824 said:

Direct quote from anet balance dev when asked about OWP change.

Can't believe this is real:

"ANet_Solar — 06/10/2022
Not that much- isn't OWP only a 4s duration on allies?
I haven't played Ranger, so I'm operating based on GW2Wiki here"

The changes were made by a guy who doesn't play Ranger. This is actually happening right now.

Fixed

Holy snappin duck kitten... Anet at least use developers that know what they are doing.. Hell at this point leave the kitten alone..

Edited June 26, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Levetty.1279]

1 hour ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

This personally, new players, and on anets side wouldn't be desirable as it would detour people from playing content.

 

Making their classes unplayable will deter them more. 

[BumboJumbo.1308]

2 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Making their classes unplayable will deter them more. 

If the nerf to one wolf pack is so severe that not even a low intensity build can output at least 20k dps in a realistic scenario then I'd agree. But that definitely won't happen with condi soulbeast, but possibly with power and hybrid soulbeast.

P.S. Create more low intensity builds!!!! Stop basing things off of a benchmark that nooo one carrrees abbbooouuut pllleeeeaaassseee.

[anduriell.6280]

This I don’t get:

* so they (anet devs) insist soulbeast it’s a bursty (assassiney type) elite. But they keep nerfing  the burst and making the elite even more mediocre. 
* nerfing leader of the pack while not buffing it anywhere else is a very bad move. This is what they(anet devs) did to the druid
* I already warned you this was bound to happen. They want to push the kitten unplayed because it sees no gameplay.

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Direct quote from anet balance dev when asked about OWP change.

Can't believe this is real:

"ANet_Solar — 06/10/2022
Not that much- isn't OWP only a 4s duration on allies?
I haven't played Ranger, so I'm operating based on GW2Wiki here"

The changes were made by a guy who doesn't play Ranger. This is actually happening right now.

The dev may be memeing there I would not read it literally.

But reading the patch notes for the last 9 years sure feel that way, the devs are “balancing” the class by reading the wiki.

maybe we need to change the wiki first so they start doing some actual work in the class. 

And again we need somebody who understands the class to do all the changes as required. Current employees do not fit that description when you read what they did for this patch. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[Levetty.1279]

11 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

If the nerf to one wolf pack is so severe that not even a low intensity build can output at least 20k dps in a realistic scenario then I'd agree. But that definitely won't happen with condi soulbeast, but possibly with power and hybrid soulbeast.

P.S. Create more low intensity builds!!!! Stop basing things off of a benchmark that nooo one carrrees abbbooouuut pllleeeeaaassseee.

The trait and OWP nerf will hit condi/hybrid Soulbeast hard and low intensity builds are doing far more then 20k.