Anet. You Going To Remove One of My Legs Now?

[Jitters.9401]

This is for the pure melee thief builds like mine. 

 

I cannot stealth on heal. I cannot stealth on steal. The #5 cloak and dagger fails to work much if the time due to evades, blinds, blocks, knock backs.... 

 

Let me give an example of how ridiculous it is now. 

Most rangers have Sic em, quickness, and the elite skill that gives double attacks. 

 

So at 2000 range I was dismounted and hit for 18k damage while being stunned. Normally I'd have to hit blinding Powder to remove the stun then withdraw to heal. 

 

That stealth on heal would allow me to get into range to steal onto that ranger so I could fight in melee range. I needed that stealth to go its full term for the healing while in stealth.  I wouldn't be full health because the amount was so little, but still enough to allow me to fight 

 

Now I am F'd.

The withdraw heal is minor in comparison with the damage I take. I'm in a revealed state for 6 seconds from "Sic em" and I'm a far distance from the ranger.

 

I need to use my evades for the follow up attacks, but they only do so much and I have to take more damage before I can use steal to get to the ranger. I need that stealth on steal so I can position myself for attack so I can force that ranger to reposition himself to defend.

 

Remember. I've not done any damage yet but have probably taken 24k damage already and needed that heal skill plus healing in stealth.

 

Now, I could have used "Dagger Storm" to get close but that would be suicide. By the time I get close the ranger #2 skill is ready and it does a ton of damage. 

 

I get off two firm attacks and the ranger works to position himself to fire off his #2 skill again. That is when I pop dagger storm. I will still take some damage but DS reflects the rest back to the ranger. 

 

That is when I pop shadow refuge. It gives my healing skill the final moments it needs to be ready again. 

 

So now I've needed to heal once for sure and possibly twice before the ranger has to think about doing it once. 

 

But Now...

how can I get in range to fight with any chance to win? I have to blinding powder, then shadow refuge to run away. How is this any fun? For you maybe. Not me.

 

But my toon has 2 legs so I can run away. Are you going to finish the job and remove one? May as well get that final nail in the coffin.

 

If only one of you understood the pure melee thief you might have just made changes to mechanics that abuse stealth instead of ruin the game experience for those who do not nd cannot abuse stealth.

 

Rant Done.

 

[Littlekenny.4196]

Grab a staff, grab another staff, kill it.

Or more descriptively, make use of all the evades, including vault, and the fact that vaulting on the ranger gives energy for more evades. Also hold the steal item for breaking immobs.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Littlekenny.4196

[Jitters.9401]

34 minutes ago, Littlekenny.4196 said:

Grab a staff, grab another staff, kill it.

Or more descriptively, make use of all the evades, including vault, and the fact that vaulted on the ranger gives energy for more evades. Also hold the steal item for breaking immobs.

Sounds like fun.

 

I only have 2 sets of medium ascended. One all assassin which is on my engineer and one all dire which is on my thief. 

 

I cannot afford the cost to change stats on all my gear for testing builds. Maybe anet needs to give me one full set of legendary medium armor to make up for their lunacy.

 

That's two things they did. Ruin how I play and make it impossible for me to try new builds because of the cost to change gear stats. 

 

And buying exotics is expensive as well. 

 

So yeah. If they give me axfull set of legendary medium gear so I can test builds in wvw I can forgive them partially.

 

[Hotride.2187]

Pretty sure there are s/d builds that barely go into stealth. You probably want to ask for builds and tips in the thief section (I did read there that you are a godlike player so playing another build should be fine). I imagine most are marauder, at most you'll have to change a weapon, sigils and runes.

You can check e.g. "Nootsi" or "Hi Im Yama" on youtube, they both run s/d and are very good. Nootsi also runs a very tanky build (usually), probably helps vs. power SB. I've ran into other good s/d thieves too but I don't think they have channels where you can see the gameplay.

Also yesterday I fought a good thief on p/d (not running SA).

You definitely have options.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Svarty.8019]

Thieves have been telling us normies to git gud for years. Now it's our turn!

 

We had a thief trolling us last night.

Four of us set up an open field treb and it got destroyed by of one thief.
We could do nothing to kill it because it made good use of the geometry and teleports. 

The OP needs to L2P.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Maybe they’ll give mirage their dodge back.  

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

45 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Pretty sure there are s/d builds that barely go into stealth. You probably want to ask for builds and tips in the thief section (I did read there that you are a godlike player so playing another build should be fine). I imagine most are marauder, at most you'll have to change a weapon, sigils and runes.

You can check e.g. "Nootsi" or "Hi Im Yama" on youtube, they both run s/d and are very good. Nootsi also runs a very tanky build (usually), probably helps vs. power SB. I've ran into other good s/d thieves too but I don't think they have channels where you can see the gameplay.

Also yesterday I fought a good thief on p/d (not running SA).

You definitely have options.

I talked with my guildies sometime ago about this, because someone accused us (AR) of running durability runes.

Was told Nootsi replaced runes with more offensive ones. So not as tanky. That being said those still work, one of my guildies still uses them. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Hotride.2187]

11 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I talked with my guildies sometime ago about this, because someone accused us (AR) of running durability runes.

Was told Nootsi replaced runes with more offensive ones. So not as tanky. That being said those still work, one of my guildies still uses them. 

Last time I fought Nootsi they were running more stuns instead of more toughness. Dunno if they change builds or just try things out. Dont think it was durability runes though.

By "tanky" I mean tanky for a thief. Obviously not "tanky" like your average joe cele build. Whoever runs the build still has to dodge, space and CC spot-on to live.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Telgum.6071]

4 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

The #5 cloak and dagger fails to work much if the time due to evades, blinds, blocks, knock backs.... 

Warrior gameplay in a nutshell

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Last time I fought Nootsi they were running more stuns instead of more toughness. Dunno if they change builds or just try things out. Dont think it was durability runes though.

By "tanky" I mean tanky for a thief. Obviously not "tanky" like your average joe cele build. Whoever runs the build still has to dodge, space and CC spot-on to live.

That's what I said, Nootsi used to play durability but not anymore. 

 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

You arent playing thief the way anet wants you to. You are supposed to play spectre and spam sceptre and wells while constantly teleporting away.

3 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

You can check e.g. "Nootsi" or "Hi Im Yama" on youtube, they both run s/d and are very good.

They are very good and probably the only s/d players left, but they constantly run into OP spam builds that they cant hope to fight even when severely outplaying them.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Not really sure what OP is saying when he can't use steal to get into melee range in the first place while stunned at 2k range.

If he's within 1200 he can just Steal while stunned, cancel the RF with Sleight of Hand, and apply BP to stunbreak and blind on impact via Blinding Powder to negate PBS, then D/P 5->2 for the blind from HB or Maul, or just spam shadow shot.  The former is how every other thief build has to do it and has had to do it if they want a stealth engage.

What these changes actually do is make D/P SA thief actually require more than two brain cells and invest more than literally nothing than the best weapon set on the class in order to perform, just like the other kits do lol.

If this is "gutted" the thief can actually get some much-needed buffs to the rest of its weapon skills and trait lines now that SA isn't hard-carrying noobs.

Signed,

>3k hours on D/D power thief in WvW

 

[Justine.6351]

Anet destroying builds and gameplay for coming up on 10 years now. They don't care.

[X T D.6458]

Um you know not everyone plays a Ranger, right? Also, stealth is a garbage gimmick that never should have been implemented in the game, or any game with a PvP mode. One more thing, thief has tons of mobility so if you can't escape it's on you.

[Salt Mode.3780]

I mean I still fought really good DE's and S/D thieves. I guess good thieves learn to adept while bad ones continue to complain on changes. As a Mesmer main only thing we gotta say is git gud. Cant really feel much sympathy for other classes considering how shafted Mesmers got throughout the years. But hey at least you have 2 dodges still.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

  heh  Go back 3 years and read every wvw patch note and count the number of thief nerfs vs ranger nerfs.  The discrepancy is staggering. It is a literal multiple of hundreds.

 hahahah  Ranger has the exact same underwater weapons as other classes and yet is still allowed to have +300 range compared to thief,warrior, and engineer.

Ranger has stupid ease of play...joke levels of range exploitation....god levels of utility and spammability.

Not hard to imagine why Ranger is so OP.

One guess who Solar is and what class he plays.

 

 

[MedievalThings.5417]

And yet, despite the change, thief is still the only class with low risk, high reward.

[Sylvia.4870]

        

16 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

This is for the pure melee thief builds like mine. 

 

I cannot stealth on heal. I cannot stealth on steal. The #5 cloak and dagger fails to work much if the time due to evades, blinds, blocks, knock backs.... 

 

Let me give an example of how ridiculous it is now. 

Most rangers have Sic em, quickness, and the elite skill that gives double attacks. 

 

So at 2000 range I was dismounted and hit for 18k damage while being stunned. Normally I'd have to hit blinding Powder to remove the stun then withdraw to heal. 

 

That stealth on heal would allow me to get into range to steal onto that ranger so I could fight in melee range. I needed that stealth to go its full term for the healing while in stealth.  I wouldn't be full health because the amount was so little, but still enough to allow me to fight 

 

Now I am F'd.

The withdraw heal is minor in comparison with the damage I take. I'm in a revealed state for 6 seconds from "Sic em" and I'm a far distance from the ranger.

 

I need to use my evades for the follow up attacks, but they only do so much and I have to take more damage before I can use steal to get to the ranger. I need that stealth on steal so I can position myself for attack so I can force that ranger to reposition himself to defend.

 

Remember. I've not done any damage yet but have probably taken 24k damage already and needed that heal skill plus healing in stealth.

 

Now, I could have used "Dagger Storm" to get close but that would be suicide. By the time I get close the ranger #2 skill is ready and it does a ton of damage. 

 

I get off two firm attacks and the ranger works to position himself to fire off his #2 skill again. That is when I pop dagger storm. I will still take some damage but DS reflects the rest back to the ranger. 

 

That is when I pop shadow refuge. It gives my healing skill the final moments it needs to be ready again. 

 

So now I've needed to heal once for sure and possibly twice before the ranger has to think about doing it once. 

 

But Now...

how can I get in range to fight with any chance to win? I have to blinding powder, then shadow refuge to run away. How is this any fun? For you maybe. Not me.

 

But my toon has 2 legs so I can run away. Are you going to finish the job and remove one? May as well get that final nail in the coffin.

 

If only one of you understood the pure melee thief you might have just made changes to mechanics that abuse stealth instead of ruin the game experience for those who do not nd cannot abuse stealth.

 

Rant Done.

 

         I feel you, Original Poster. I used to seem desperate, lost and sorrowful when I was new to the profession. I got scolded, insulted, hated and blamed for countless  times. As long as I still like it, I don't give up playing it. Even as a core thief. Whether win or lose to a fight from anyone with any professions(including the Thief profession with its different specializations), at least I obtain some details  as knowledge in return to improve myself and try not to make a mistake, which will lead myself to defeat. I believe you can overcome  the obstacles in your way in time, Original Poster. 

 

       P.S. I also like the D/D thief playstyle(power damage), one of my favorites  among the other weapon sets for the Thief profession. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Sylvia.4870

[Xenesis.6389]

Excuse me, but as a former Mirage, the one leg phrase was already coined to our one dodge change.

Please look for a different catch phrase for your situation.

Unless you're asking for anet to remove a dodge from your class, then by all means feel free to use it.

Thank you.

[Absurd.2947]

Dire condi SA thief? 🙃

[Ronin.4501]

"If you're not part of the boonball, you're doing it wrong." - Anet

[Lucy.3728]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:30 AM, Jitters.9401 said:

So at 2000 range I was dismounted and hit for 18k damage while being stunned.

Every thief deserves this!

A whining thief in wvw, I laugh my kitten off.

[kash.9213]

Cloak and Dagger is the most natural and consistently fluid and fast skills I use and probably has the best record of my skills for tagging Stealthed players. 

You can still combo Steal with whatever. I think Stealth on Steal should have been left in somewhere to hook up more than the usual weapon sets. The Stealth on Heal was annoying I thought but also it was kind of too much.

You were using a lot of your reactive and mitigating strengths just to get into melee range and that won't leave you much afterwards. I feel like you can get some secondary modifier to make up for that healing you lost while in stealth, like steal health on interrupt or something, plus SA has a few healing options. 

I think you can drag them down the lane they're pressuring you on, then strafe towards them but to the side after they leave their footing and then close distance, you can deal with that 2000 rang opener some. 

You're playing a mostly melee build, of course that's going to get dicey. If you're not bringing Sword 2 or something like it and nothing to hit hard from range with then you might just have to eat some fully packed openers. 

[Ian.8340]

They should really revert the Shadow Arts changes. 😞

[Corabelle.3254]

12 minutes ago, Ian.8340 said:

They should really revert the Shadow Arts changes. 😞

Shadows arts was so degenerate lol

Edited July 5, 2022 by Corabelle.3254