PLEASE don't listen to Teapot regarding Hammer!

[Lucentfir.7430]

34 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So you are absolutely certain he doesn't have this?

Sure ... but thats all just in the details of how it would be implemented,  that we don't have even if it might

And how do we know anet is only listening to this singular person?9

1. If I haven't played Ele for a year, and haven't touched it since  then, would you still consider me having insight with that class over how many patches since then and how it's played currently but know they have this cool alacrity build now, because some people told me? I guess that depends on your own personal definition of insight. 

2.  Yeah and I'm sure banners had the same amount of detail and consideration level of being implemented as trying to make support hammer work, much like the great warrior offhand rework. very reassuring. 

3. UHM hello? Teapot, has Anet devs in his stream chat many a times casually chatting and hanging out, not to mention before the WoD nerf iirc he even said he's spoken to Anet Devs mentioning The Winds of Change, as a reference to WoD getting nuked. You want to counter with anything that shows they don't only listen to the streamer and content creator clique in super seekrt discord?

Edited July 10, 2022 by Lucentfir.7430

[Jzaku.9765]

17 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

3. UHM hello? Teapot, has Anet devs in his stream chat many a times casually chatting and hanging out, not to mention before the WoD nerf iirc he even said he's spoken to Anet Devs mentioning The Winds of Change, as a reference to WoD getting nuked. You want to counter with anything that shows they don't only listen to the streamer and content creator clique in super seekrt discord?

To be perfectly fair, the Warrior channel of that secret discord had literally 0 developer replies in it - the only class to achieve this amazing feat. 

And also to be fair to Teapot OP is quoting literally like 3s of Teapot spitballing ideas of what a support Warrior would look like while ranting about how absolutely putrid this patch is for Warrior - so it seems like a dramatic overreaction. Teapot ultimately is a lot more qualified to talk about inter-profession balance than the overwhelming majority of this forum. 

[Lucentfir.7430]

21 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

To be perfectly fair, the Warrior channel of that secret discord had literally 0 developer replies in it - the only class to achieve this amazing feat. 

And also to be fair to Teapot OP is quoting literally like 3s of Teapot spitballing ideas of what a support Warrior would look like while ranting about how absolutely putrid this patch is for Warrior - so it seems like a dramatic overreaction. Teapot ultimately is a lot more qualified to talk about inter-profession balance than the overwhelming majority of this forum. 

Truly Marvelous heights indeed. Also that's fair to Teapot, I know the video the from what the OP is referencing. I think too is that some people are just kinda at their breaking point when it comes to this class, like on top of a failed big June 28th patch with the disappointment having settled in,  spit balling the idea of changes to push a warrior weapon which isn't seen as a support healer weapon role into one of such to make a sort of outlandish half baked support spec where smacking  enemies for 7 damage CCs and healing allies by ccing such people sits in the weird zone of gameplay, while a lot of the issues with warrior still remains unresolved and the weird part is we don't know if Anet will actually take  up that suggestion. Lots of uncertainty.  That's also kinda why I wish for some sort of Anet approved application community council here on the forums, or something of the sort, to get more qualified/promising player discussion/ideas/suggestions in front of Dev eyeballs if they're truly watching the forums for feedback(doubtful).

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

1. If I haven't played Ele for a year, and haven't touched it since  then, would you still consider me having insight with that class over how many patches since then and how it's played currently but know they have this cool alacrity build now, because some people told me? I guess that depends on your own personal definition of insight. 

2.  Yeah and I'm sure banners had the same amount of detail and consideration level of being implemented as trying to make support hammer work, much like the great warrior offhand rework. very reassuring. 

3. UHM hello? Teapot, has Anet devs in his stream chat many a times casually chatting and hanging out, not to mention before the WoD nerf iirc he even said he's spoken to Anet Devs mentioning The Winds of Change, as a reference to WoD getting nuked. You want to counter with anything that shows they don't only listen to the streamer and content creator clique in super seekrt discord?

You know what is funny here ... you think Anet ACTUALLY listens to these individual players? Did you SEE the last patch notes? Did you SEE Teapot's reaction to the warrior changes? But OK ... you got a bug in your craw about streamers access to Anet devs. That's clouding your judgement here. 

I mean, the argument that Anet screws things up so they shouldn't change the things you use ... that's not going to float, even if it's true because it's GOING to happen anyways. On it's own merit, the idea that at least ONE of the dozen weapons warrior uses can be focused to support is NOT a bad one. Hammer makes sense there, since it's abundance of CC makes it a natural candidate. 

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Lucentfir.7430]

22 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You know what is funny here ... you think Anet ACTUALLY listens to these individual players? Did you SEE the last patch notes? Did you SEE Teapot's reaction to the warrior changes? But OK ... you got a bug in your craw about streamers access to Anet devs. That's clouding your judgement here. 

I mean, the argument that Anet screws things up so they shouldn't change the things you use ... that's not going to float, even if it's true because it's GOING to happen anyways. On it's own merit, the idea that at least ONE of the dozen weapons warrior uses can be focused to support is NOT a bad one. Hammer makes sense there, since it's abundance of CC makes it a natural candidate. 

 

What's funny is this is the highly sought after communication with the company is supposed to be, instead of radio silence , and its certainly a lot more of a sign they do listen to some individual players to some capacity if they're willing to have them in discord and casually chat. Yes I seen the patch notes, and seen the reaction. I got a bug in my craw by the way this game gets mishandled and frequently nudged (game aspects) in directions I don't agree with(along with many other players.), that does in fact impact my enjoyment with the game, but I long put up with it because I'm geniunely passionate about the game and try to enjoy it where I can despite it all


There is no argument to be even had if we just cut to the chase already knowing  the point you're trying to make, Anet is going to just do w.e regardless of what anyone says. You can spitball all these recommendations and get flustered someone is challenging the idea of hammer becoming a support weapon(something I'd imagine falls would fall into the same category as Rev Staff) , but at the end of the day going by your own words "YoU tHiNk AnEt AcTuAlLy LiStEnS tO tHeSe InDivIdUal PlAyErS." there's no point even to recommend changes/give feedback on anything of such, or suggest anything because Anet is going to do what Anet do regardless of the whims and wishes of their players/status, and more than definitive proof is yes the most recent patch. So it really doesn't matter regardless if you think Hammer makes sense as a "support weapon" candidate or not, just like how it doesn't matter what I think,  regarding the idea of  hammer becoming some weird half baked healing support weapon, for all you know they could just drop all the CC from hammer and make it another high burst DPS weapon. 

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

There is no argument to be even had if we just cut to the chase already knowing  the point you're trying to make, Anet is going to just do w.e regardless of what anyone says. 

No, my point is that the idea that Anet dedicate a weapon to support for warrior, and it being hammer, is not a bad idea. It simply doesn't make sense to say it's a bad idea because you believe Anet will ruin it by doing that or because a streamer suggested it. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[chronometria.3708]

I remember when hammer was a great control weapon - people shouting "hammer stun" in wvw and other places.....i havent heard anyone say that in many, many years. I havent even seen a warrior use a hammer in that amount of time either.

 

Come to think of it, i dont tend to see warriors at all. Lets hope the coming changes actually do something about that.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Watching his newer vid, I am glad that he reinstates how bad warrior is right now at least. I might not have always agreed with teapot's stance on warrior recently, but you can't ask from non-main to understand the things you have predicted months back.

It pains me to be correct afterall. Many of us I believe. 

[anbujackson.9564]

13 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Watching his newer vid, I am glad that he reinstates how bad warrior is right now at least. I might not have always agreed with teapot's stance on warrior recently, but you can't ask from non-main to understand the things you have predicted months back.

It pains me to be correct afterall. Many of us I believe. 

I agree. The meltdown was real, calling it flat out the worst design decision in the history of the game is really telling. 

What will they do about bladesworn stacking for quickness? Remove damage or reduce quickness? They have to do the former because losering quickness more would be insane.

What a mess.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

I agree. The meltdown was real, calling it flat out the worst design decision in the history of the game is really telling. 

What will they do about bladesworn stacking for quickness? Remove damage or reduce quickness? They have to do the former because losering quickness more would be insane.

What a mess.

And then warrior can go from it's current 1% usage (per Teapot's video) to 0%!

 

ANet: "Bwahaha! Good, good..." 

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 7/9/2022 at 2:18 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

So ... it's not unreasonable to think that a weapon with a focus on CC can't provide support. I mean ... let me present to you ... Guardian Hammer. 

I don't know what specific changes Teapot would have suggested, but the hammer itself doesn't actually need to be changed at all for it to be considered a support weapon. One trait change could do that. 

"So...it's not unreasonable to think that a weapon with a focus on CC can't support."

It's also not unreasonable to brush your teeth with a cactus instead of a toothbrush but, well...yeah...Hammer along with the warrior usage there of, is CC. Period.

Edited July 11, 2022 by JTGuevara.9018
add

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

"So...it's not unreasonable to think that a weapon with a focus on CC can't support."

It's also not unreasonable to brush your teeth with a cactus instead of a toothbrush but, well...yeah...Hammer along with the warrior usage there of, is CC. Period.

I don't see what you are rambling on about here. No one disputed hammer isn't  a CC weapon.

[Ultramex.1506]

Good lord, he suggested that? Did he confused hammer warrior for hammer guardian?

I'm fine with control/support hammer guard since it provide protection but the freaking warrior?

[JTGuevara.9018]

58 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't see what you are rambling on about here. No one disputed hammer isn't  a CC weapon.

Basic facts are "rambling" now? Oh do tell!

[Obtena.7952]

9 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Basic facts are "rambling" now? Oh do tell!

Again, not sure what point you are trying to make by quoting me and telling me Hammer is a CC weapon. I didn't say it wasn't. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[JTGuevara.9018]

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, not sure what point you are trying to make by quoting me and telling me Hammer is a CC weapon. I didn't say it wasn't. 

Oh yes you did, you implied it. No need to say it directly.

[Obtena.7952]

19 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Oh yes you did, you implied it. No need to say it directly.

Again, I don't disagree that Hammer should be a CC weapon so  whatever.  🤷‍♂️

Edited July 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Kalthea.4326]

Man, if only we had a couple of mid-range projectile weapons that allowed upwards of 4 support skills to be applied to the weapon bar, and one to he swapped out for warhorn if you wanted.

 

Seriously, dual pistol support warrior would have been super rad. Not long-range, just mid-range, but with options for supporting the team through barriers, maybe protection, or what have you. Use an animation where you fire a bullet into the air as a rallying shot, or something like that.

[Doggie.3184]

Well Anet did think mages use hammers to cast spells so it's kind of a wild-card of what weird idea they'll think is good just because it's different.

[tunococman.7324]

Yea I want Hammer to be the aggro weapon

 

Like make it take multiple stacks of stab tbh if it's not gonna ignore evades

 

Blind spam aegis still would counter it sigh.

[oscuro.9720]

Hammer is in a prime spot to be reworked into another high-versatility 2handed weapon — an alternative to GS. Focus on pulls and spike damage, a niche that is unfulfilled on warrior, with some mobility and sustain, and it could be a viable kit. Eg: 

 

as a support weapon though? That’s going to be a no for me. First off I don’t think having a support weapon is a critical problem for warrior. Secondly, there’s a lot more viable and sensible ways to create support warrior through traits that, without such alterations, im not certain a support weapon will do much to encourage warrior in that role unless it’s absolutely cracked. Just my opinion though, no real right answer on this issue 🙂 

 

[DemonCrypto.6792]

I have one argument for teapot hammer.

Warrior weapons are great, but they are monorole (cc,pdps,,condi).

 It also mean if multiple weapons can do the same thing some are left out of meta.

So if a rework is done, give  some weapon more to do (and when i say more, i mean take the base weapon and put a boost on it).
it would be fine, support hammer but who can still strike like a truck isn't ilogical.

[Dadnir.5038]

I don't agree with teapot's view on hammer but neither do I agree with the OP's view on hammer.

Personally, I'd like to see the hammer transformed into a condition weapon. I'd simply like to see confusions stacks added to the AA, it would encourage me to take the trait body blow along with the hammer.

But that's my personal point of view.

[Lucentfir.7430]

Actually after a while stewing on this, I've changed my mind and will say do it, making healing hammer a thing will further seat warrior into meme much more.  It makes sense In competative too, CCing foes heals your allies because they get their morale boosted,  seeing warrior literally bludgeoning someone with a big blunt object and still doing less damage than them. It's a very big confidence booster for your teammates in your role of supporting!  You can also stand aside and let the real people that matter do the work, cheerleading with Banner of Defense to give them that sweet sweet Resistance pulse. It falls in line with the pacifist warrior code too! 😲

[Teratus.2859]

Personally i'd like to see Hammer become the main 2H Power weapon and Greatsword remade into a 2H condi melee.

Warrior is really lacking in a 2H condi weapon, especially a melee one and the best you got really is longbow and well that's hardly great at it and pretty much forces you into taking Crack Shot which competes with 2 other very useful major adept traits.

Honestly they should just add the LB and HG benefits of Crack Shot to the basic weapon autos, and replace crackshot entirely with a new trait that better fits into the Discipline line.

The recharge benefits of Crackshot for LB and HG should be added to a trait in the Arms line which focuses on condition damage.

Crack shot is a bad, out of place trait if you ask me, and you have to give up a lot to take it and it's just not worth it.. which ultimately makes longbow as a condi option also not worth it.

 

Add to that to this day the game is still lacking a profession that utilizes a dedicated condi greatsword skill kit.

Why not Warrior?.
Frankly I can't think of a better option, Warrior already has plenty of good power weapons anyway and people want Hammer buffed up to be better at it which competes with GS.. so just make GS condi.

As far as support goes.. i'm with those pushing Dagger.. at least MH dagger which should better synergise with off hand supports like Shield and Warhorn.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Teratus.2859