Aging & GW2

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

And I'm going to bring it back to ping. I know I bang on about this in the forums, but some of us are playing with > 250 ping. This is in combination with slower reflexes with age. I'm sure Anet really want to kiss goodbye to their South American, SEA, and OCX players, particularly those of us on the other side of 30.

No online game will be specifically built around its players having terrible ping. "But my ping is bad" might be a problem with the server/region, hardware or one's isp -not with the game.

4 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

See how you feel in another 10-20years.. 35 is still young.

It is. And yet, the quote above uses "the other side of 30" as some kind of cut-off here, so I do see the relevance in someone responding with "I'm 35 and...".

Edited July 30, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Hesione.9412]

9 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I don't think it's reasonable to expect an MMO like this to choose as their target demographic players in their 50s and 60s.  Having said that, I think ANet does a better job than most of ensuring that most of their content is designed with a wide audience in mind to include older players.

 

Or people with higher ping, or people with particular disabilities, or....

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Or people with higher ping, or people with particular disabilities, or....

And?  Like I said, they design content for those players.  Look at Harvest Tower.  There's an easy mode in the personal story, an open world version, and an entry level strike mission that all released with EoD months before they released a hardcore challenge mode version.  Is the mere existence of challenging content unacceptable to you?  Seems a little unreasonable to me...

[Labjax.2465]

10 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I don't think it's reasonable to expect an MMO like this to choose as their target demographic players in their 50s and 60s.  Having said that, I think ANet does a better job than most of ensuring that most of their content is designed with a wide audience in mind to include older players.

 

What would make it unreasonable? The disposable income that people that age are more likely to have in the US over young people? The loyalty they're more likely to have for one game over peer pressure and identity experimentation to chase the newest thing? The reliability in slowing down and taking content steadily rather than burning through it in a month? (Of course, not all of these things will fit everybody in that bracket, I'm talking very broadly expectations about averages.)

I can't really think of why that would be an unreasonable demographic to aim for. The main benefit that the younger demographic seems to give is word of mouth marketing hype energy and pure hours invested showing up when they decide to, if they are in school type stages and have breaks with long stretches of free time. So for a F2P game, they are probably more often the ones filling out the raw player numbers and playing long hyper hours converting gold to gems, rather than paying directly. Which is an important part of making the model work, but only one part of it.

[Dawdler.8521]

43 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

What would make it unreasonable? The disposable income that people that age are more likely to have in the US over young people? The loyalty they're more likely to have for one game over peer pressure and identity experimentation to chase the newest thing? The reliability in slowing down and taking content steadily rather than burning through it in a month? (Of course, not all of these things will fit everybody in that bracket, I'm talking very broadly expectations about averages.)

I can't really think of why that would be an unreasonable demographic to aim for. The main benefit that the younger demographic seems to give is word of mouth marketing hype energy and pure hours invested showing up when they decide to, if they are in school type stages and have breaks with long stretches of free time. So for a F2P game, they are probably more often the ones filling out the raw player numbers and playing long hyper hours converting gold to gems, rather than paying directly. Which is an important part of making the model work, but only one part of it.

50-60 year olds do not have as many phones.

[Solvar.7953]

I'd be somewhat curious on how demographics for long released games (not just GW2, but things like WoW and the like) go with age, though I'm too lazy to try and dig anything up.

Certainly, a large number of players who started playing when the game first out have quit playing.  But some percentage stick around, and so as the game ages, so do they.

I also wonder what the demographic of new players to the game is like.  I know Anet is planning a steam release.  But is that really going to grab a lot of <30 year old players, or are those players more likely to play the latest shiny new thing vs some 10 year old game.  I remember mentioning at work that I play GW2, and a younger person made the comment that it was an old game.  Even without Steam, I wonder the age of most new players.

That said, the nature of the game is likely to influence who plays the game.  I know that I'm not going to start playing a game that requires really fast reflexes or a lot of skill.

I would think a game aimed at older players would have a big enough market to thrive.  But also wonder if spending habits of different age players may differ - older players may have more income to spend, but that may not mean they spend as much of it on cosmetic finery compared to younger players.

 

[Hesione.9412]

4 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

And?  Like I said, they design content for those players.  Look at Harvest Tower.  There's an easy mode in the personal story, an open world version, and an entry level strike mission that all released with EoD months before they released a hardcore challenge mode version.  Is the mere existence of challenging content unacceptable to you?  Seems a little unreasonable to me...

Where did I mention that I have problems with challenging content existing?

 

If you're going to try to argue against me, at least don't strawman my points. And don't make assumptions about what I do, or don't do, in-game. 

 

See, the thing is that, every time someone points out that something *open world* is a bit harder in this game because of ping, slightly older reflexes, disabilities we hear the same retort back in the forums: just don't do that content.

 

Are the griffon adventures too unforgiving for some of us? Don't do that content.

Is the DE meta a bit too difficult for some of us? Don't do that content.

The list of "don't do that content" just keeps getting longer and longer....

[Hesione.9412]

Adding, generally, it takes a special type of player to come into a thread specifically about ageing and its effects on playing GW2 and tell the players to, basically, kitten.

[Maltyrius.2961]

On 7/27/2022 at 7:46 AM, Randulf.7614 said:

I like to go to  my borderland fort and shout “get off my lawn you kids” at the invading force. I like to think it helps and requires minimal mechanic learning for my tiring brain

Geriatric shout spec is OP.

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

And?  Like I said, they design content for those players.  Look at Harvest Tower.  There's an easy mode in the personal story, an open world version, and an entry level strike mission that all released with EoD months before they released a hardcore challenge mode version.  Is the mere existence of challenging content unacceptable to you?  Seems a little unreasonable to me...

You are confusing what this thread is about with difficulty.  Fun fact, nothing that was being talked about here is relevant for Harvest Temple CM, because it does not have any uberfast-reaction-required mechanics on non-predictable patterns. This type of issue just does not show itself in high-end content at all.

[AliamRationem.5172]

22 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You are confusing what this thread is about with difficulty.  Fun fact, nothing that was being talked about here is relevant for Harvest Temple CM, because it does not have any uberfast-reaction-required mechanics on non-predictable patterns. This type of issue just does not show itself in high-end content at all.

Definitely color me confused.  What would be some examples of what we're talking about?

[Zebulous.2934]

It is a good point that all humans get older.

I do wonder if people will continue to play a game when they are physically or mentally incapable of running 20% of the content.  What is the cut off point? When do you drop a game? When a quarter of the content is beyond your abilities? Half? 

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Where did I mention that I have problems with challenging content existing?

Where? If only in the very same post:

Quote

Are the griffon adventures too unforgiving for some of us? Don't do that content.

Is the DE meta a bit too difficult for some of us? Don't do that content.

The list of "don't do that content" just keeps getting longer and longer....

Apaprently if the hard content exists and the obvious solution is to avoid it, it's something you'll try to point at as some unthinkable concept that shouldn't be said here. So which one is it: do you understand that harder content can exist and you can just not do it if you don't want to or are you by default not ok with someone suggesting you can skip what you don't want to do?

Edited July 31, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You are confusing what this thread is about with difficulty.  Fun fact, nothing that was being talked about here is relevant for Harvest Temple CM, because it does not have any uberfast-reaction-required mechanics on non-predictable patterns. This type of issue just does not show itself in high-end content at all.

Meanwhile you're avoiding the fact some people in this thread are apparently confusing things like "but my ping is bad" (or "but my reflex is worse!") with an actual argument to have when talking about balancing an action mmorpg. In most cases, it's more of the issue of knowing the environment/opponents than needing lightning fast reflexes anyways.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Kaliwenda.3428]

On 7/27/2022 at 7:12 PM, Tukaram.8256 said:

I have never seen a study, but would be interested.  Back in the early 2000s I helped run a meetup group for Ultima Online.  I was surprised at how many of the players were older or disabled. But it makes sense - MMORPGs give you something to do, and a community of friends, all from the comfort of your home. A perfect setup for some.  I was young and disabled then, I am old and disabled now ha ha 😎

I started playing my first MMO several years after I became disabled 20 years ago.  It does help pass the time and give you a sense of exploration and accomplishment as well as people to talk to.  As far as GW2 goes, there are some things that are beyond my capabilities and I'm ok with that.  I do try to learn and adapt as much as possible, whether by changing builds or setting up keybinds that work better for me.  So far it's working out well for me.

[Chips.7968]

On 7/27/2022 at 4:08 AM, Solvar.7953 said:

Having recently had a birthday, and GW2 having its birthday soon, this got me to thinking.

Even when GW2 came out 10 years ago, I was at an age where my reactions were past their prime and would go down.  But for original GW2, that really wasn't much an issue.  Sure, being able to dodge at the right time would make some content easier, and being able to player better would make fights faster.

But as new content has been released, more of it seems to be of a nature where good/fast reactions are necessary - if you don't dodge that attack, you may get knocked down, AoEs cover 90% of the area so you have to be able to quickly identify and move to that 10% safe area, relatively fast reactions for other mechanics, etc.  And there seems to be more of a push for instanced/harder content (raids & strikes).

Anet is of course free to design/change the game however they want.  But this does get me to thinking that as my reactions slowly decrease and Anet slowly ramps up difficulty, there will be some point where new content will effectively be not playable by me.  Which is a bit of a pity, as I enjoy the game, and while I can keep playing the old content, at some point that gets repetitive and this will just force me to move onto something else.

No real point to this post, other than maybe some hope that someone at Anet will see this and recognize that maybe keeping older players playing the good game would be a good thing.

 

Just play with a blob. Your reaction times could be such that you press a utility button mid fight, go to the bathroom, then make a cup of tea, purchase a BDO subscription, download a copy of Lost Ark, read the entire user agreement with any Apple product (20000 pages).. and still be able to cancel it before it fires.

As age increases, play with proportionally increasing size groups. You no longer have to worry - anet has your back.

[Hesione.9412]

4 hours ago, Kaliwenda.3428 said:

I started playing my first MMO several years after I became disabled 20 years ago.  It does help pass the time and give you a sense of exploration and accomplishment as well as people to talk to.  As far as GW2 goes, there are some things that are beyond my capabilities and I'm ok with that.  I do try to learn and adapt as much as possible, whether by changing builds or setting up keybinds that work better for me.  So far it's working out well for me.

Just because something works well for you, doesn't mean it works well for others. You have provided an anecdote and, while this is important to you, it is not necessarily reflective of others.

 

More generally, this seems to be a recurring theme in these forums. Basically, along the lines of "I don't have a problem, therefore the others are (a) making it up, (b) lazy casuals who just press 11111, ..."

[Sobx.1758]

56 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Just because something works well for you, doesn't mean it works well for others. You have provided an anecdote and, while this is important to you, it is not necessarily reflective of others.

 

More generally, this seems to be a recurring theme in these forums. Basically, along the lines of "I don't have a problem, therefore the others are (a) making it up, (b) lazy casuals who just press 11111, ..."

Yeeeah, that's not at all what's written in this thread though, but you carefully nitpick what you're responding to (and how you're interpreting it), in case you actually had to challenge your own "game bad because my ping high". It's sure easier to say that "if you disagree with me, it means you think I'm making it up or I press 111111" -but who even wrote that in this thread? 🤨

I mean on this page you say you never said you have an issue with harder content existing and in the same post you complain about griffon adventures and one harder meta event existing.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[TheQuickFox.3826]

To keep playing games like GW2 can help a bit against aging of your brain as it keeps your brain active. Especially when you switch to different content from time to time.

I used to have a colleague with a light brain injury after an accident. His doctor recommended him to play some games in which you need to think to help him with maintaining his limited memory that he had. He used to play the Might and Magic RPG series but when he saw me playing Guild Wars he switched to that. He played it casually but enjoyed every bit of it. Every now and then I helped him setting up his gear and skills but he went through all missions himself.

 

Later he also moved over to Guild Wars 2 and I still see him online every now and then. Even tho he is a pensioner by long now, and I had to switch jobs twice since then. He still thanks me for helping him to make a start with Guild Wars.

 

By now I'm in my 40s and notice that I no longer have the reaction speed of my teens and I sometimes have some difficulty grabbing new concepts and mechanics. Probably also because of my autism. (Difficulty with changes) But GW2 most of the time allows me to gradually take steps into new directions and grow over time. These games have been quite helpful for me.

[Tukaram.8256]

14 hours ago, Maltyrius.2961 said:

Geriatric shout spec is OP.

Get off my lawn!  😎

 

6 hours ago, Kaliwenda.3428 said:

I started playing my first MMO several years after I became disabled 20 years ago.  It does help pass the time and give you a sense of exploration and accomplishment as well as people to talk to.  As far as GW2 goes, there are some things that are beyond my capabilities and I'm ok with that.  I do try to learn and adapt as much as possible, whether by changing builds or setting up keybinds that work better for me.  So far it's working out well for me.

Me too.  I rarely do any instanced content (but love the boss bash in the  queen's pavilion).  I simply cannot do jumping puzzles as there is no depth on these screens. It is a flat picture, and no way to judge supposed depths (for me).  I enjoy what I can do and do not sweat the rest. 

[Kaliwenda.3428]

1 hour ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Just because something works well for you, doesn't mean it works well for others. You have provided an anecdote and, while this is important to you, it is not necessarily reflective of others.

 

More generally, this seems to be a recurring theme in these forums. Basically, along the lines of "I don't have a problem, therefore the others are (a) making it up, (b) lazy casuals who just press 11111, ..."

Yeah, I was speaking about my personal experience and I was trying to write it in response to the comment about how lots of disabled people find community and a sense of achievement in games but I guess I didn't make that clear.  I was not intending or trying to minimize anyone else's difficulties. My apologies if it came across that way.

 

 

[Rogue.8235]

Not sure if it's been suggested in this thread, but I wouldn't mind if my characters develop osteoarthritis like me.  As long as it's not too crippling, but I won't mind if my characters age.

 

I know that's not the main point of this thread, but just wanted to throw it out there.

 

/jk... kinda

[Dante.1508]

On 7/31/2022 at 2:21 AM, Einsof.1457 said:

If I lose my ability to play high end, I'll stop doing it. I won't come on the forums and complain about accessibility. 

I bet you will.

[Ashen.2907]

32 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

I bet you will.

Thats not how high performing people react to being no longer capable of high performance.

Instead they talk about how much easier kids have it these days and how much harder it was back in the day.

[ArchonWing.9480]

I dunno about that. I've been playing and working with people in their 40s,  50s and 60s+ since the game came out and they still seem just as competent and honestly would play with them over many whippersnappers. They are not "slow" by any means.  But needless to say, the "older than 30 = old" needs to gtfo lol. But don't worry, I've been on game communities that think you peak around 20, sooo....

Heck, a lot of the people that regularly do raids are at least a decade older than me.

See back in my day the game would end if you died. And if you didn't beat it fast enough, it'd probably crash. Wait, screw those days.

 

 Many of the people in my WvW server are pretty old too, and there's even a guild for old people. At 38 I'm one of the younger members of both my guilds and pretty sure my wrists have given out first 🙃 Now your spine and knees are another issue I feel. CMs I guess are an issue because of the need to memorize more stuff.

 

This isn't exactly a MOBA or a FPS where split second decisions matter and you don't need anything resembling optimal dps either. And there are now builds that are very much more low intensity.

And a lot of things don't have to do with reaction times, like picking a build and simply not just standing there. A lot of people just die because they don't move at all or are too busy to blame their teammates or game.

Other people will actually print out cheat sheets (actually very common for other games), and I suppose that's an old person thing. Although I have friends that were doing that long ago.

I mean I might ruffle a few feathers by saying this, but bringing a proper build and active communication are far more important than raw "skill". And even if you somehow do lack the reflexes (I was always one of the slow ones), you can always meet people that can help. And frankly a lot of the issues I see are these problems.

Proper social skills is the real OP strategy. Yes you can play this like a single player game, but as that meme goes, apes together strong, even if they are getting old and losing hair.

Now,  there have been many complaints about visual clutter. But I don't think that kind of stuff is healthy for anyone and they should definitely emphasize visual clarity.

edit: Yes there are many old people that never grew up. It's not like you get a wisdom stat as you age.

edit 2: it's also true with more responsibilities like family that many can no longer game til 2 am in the morning. Yea RL sucks.

edit 3: A real issue is you can't really customize your characters to look older.

Edited August 2, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480