Remove Ranked

[xblankk.4207]

Just curious.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Nah.

Ranked is important as one of the cogs to draw people to competitive.

It is not functioning properly due to matchmaker exploits, but rather than scrap the whole system, an effort needs to be made to fix what's wrong with it, like aggressive bans for proven wintraders that remove their accounts from ranking and leaderboards/gizmos, a comprehensive profession balance that ensures classes with high risk have high reward and lower risk has lower reward, and a restructuring of queuing for ranked.

Im almost certain that they have the foundation to draw pvp lovers from the furthest reaches of the internet with the foundation they have here, which makes it immensely frustrating to see it so squandered.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sahne.6950]

14 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Im almost certain that they have the foundation to draw pvp lovers from the furthest reaches of the internet with the foundation they have here, which makes it immensely frustrating to see it so squandered.

I am sadly almost certain that gw2 pvp might be not as appealing than we think it is... 

Yesterday i showed a buddy some pvp footage. He is playing alot of other games, but he was watching for 3 minutes then turned to me and said:

" I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IS HAPPENING! THERE IS ANIMATIONS EVERYWHERE.... ITS SO SPAMMY I SERIOUSLY CANT TELL YOU WHAT IS GOING ON".  

And i felt that. That is one of the reasons why esports failed. Its godawful to watch cuz its so friking spammy. When you are not the one acting its almost impossible to properly graps whats going on.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I am sadly almost certain that gw2 pvp might be not as appealing than we think it is... 

Yesterday i showed a buddy some pvp footage. He is playing alot of other games, but he was watching for 3 minutes then turned to me and said:

" I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IS HAPPENING! THERE IS ANIMATIONS EVERYWHERE.... ITS SO SPAMMY I SERIOUSLY CANT TELL YOU WHAT IS GOING ON".  

And i felt that. That is one of the reasons why esports failed. Its godawful to watch cuz its so friking spammy. When you are not the one acting its almost impossible to properly graps whats going on.

You and your friend definitely aren't wrong. Gw2 pvp; in its current state, is very much an acquired taste.

I think the way people usually find PvP is by getting dragged into the base PvE game and then looking around at all the shiny things there is to see. Then they get to PvP and realize how rancid and unpolished it is, at which point they either never touch the gamemode again, or a rare few will harness what I can only describe as the spirit of 'that one pvp guy in the back' and stick around until the end of days.

 

And to stay on topic, no. I do not think Ranked should be removed because I am that one pvp guy in the back. We all are.

What sounds worse; a broken, frustrating game with no accessible competitive mode, or a broken, frustrating game with an accessible competitive mode?

It's a no-brainer. We want more people and Ranked is a trap designed to lure in new people. We need it. Those of us that struggle with gambling problems REALLY need it.

[Fueki.4753]

How about we remove unranked instead?

Edited August 14, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[xblankk.4207]

4 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

How about we remove unranked instead and have ranked be the default mode?

I was just reading the last couple replies and started thinking this as well lol - then I got the GW2 forum notification you responded. I should have added that as a third option I guess.

I still would be cool with removing either, honestly. I've been playing other games lately and queues in all of them are usually less than 30 seconds... and the matches less toxic lol.

Edited August 14, 2022 by xKole.9175

[Cuks.8241]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I am sadly almost certain that gw2 pvp might be not as appealing than we think it is... 

Yesterday i showed a buddy some pvp footage. He is playing alot of other games, but he was watching for 3 minutes then turned to me and said:

" I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IS HAPPENING! THERE IS ANIMATIONS EVERYWHERE.... ITS SO SPAMMY I SERIOUSLY CANT TELL YOU WHAT IS GOING ON".  

And i felt that. That is one of the reasons why esports failed. Its godawful to watch cuz its so friking spammy. When you are not the one acting its almost impossible to properly graps whats going on.

Its a bit off topic.  But this is the primary problem of this game in all areas. Over the top flashy effects and animations. Its not that its way overly spammy (it is a bit).  As soon as you have more than a few players in one spot everything becomes a flashy unreadable mess. 

I used to play a lot of mobas and also watched plenty of videos. Even if I watched a game play video of a game I didn't play I had a good idea how the fight goes. Here a spectator doesnt have a clue. 

Btw its not just animations and spam, its also sound effects. Sound effects are important for competitive games, what you dont see you might hear. The specific sound effects are fine but clarity is also needed.  Mech for example is one big sound mess. 

[Bazsi.2734]

Lol what even is this

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Well, rewards for unranked are bad in comparison to ranked. So I usually advise players to avoid unranked unless they are testing a build.

Edited August 15, 2022 by TheQuickFox.3826

[Vaux.7502]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:11 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

I am sadly almost certain that gw2 pvp might be not as appealing than we think it is... 

Yesterday i showed a buddy some pvp footage. He is playing alot of other games, but he was watching for 3 minutes then turned to me and said:

" I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IS HAPPENING! THERE IS ANIMATIONS EVERYWHERE.... ITS SO SPAMMY I SERIOUSLY CANT TELL YOU WHAT IS GOING ON".  

And i felt that. That is one of the reasons why esports failed. Its godawful to watch cuz its so friking spammy. When you are not the one acting its almost impossible to properly graps whats going on.

This is literally PvP in any MMO, though.  WoW is the same exact kitten.  BDO is even worse and so fast you have 0% chance of understanding anything without a LOT of knowledge.  ESO is the same.  I can't think of a single MMO that has good, organized PvP where you can just start watching as a completely new player and start to grasp what's going on.  The genre just doesn't lend itself to that kind of viewing.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The matchmaker doesn't work properly anyway and the system has far too many ways to exploit it.

 

Just merge ranked with unranked and remove seasons entirely. Make the divisions and league rewards available to all, and make TDM standard, selectable game mode and put all maps in rotation. Enable hotjoin of ongoing matches, since players leave all the time anyway, and auto-kick AFKers.

 

Throw us all into chaos and see what happens.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[almostdaft.4319]

There isn't any inherent reason to removed ranked from Guild Wars 2. Taking it away would likely do more harm and really, I can't think of any good to come of it. The structure of an organized ranked ladder gives competitive players a goal.

Like others' have said, PvP, specifically for MMOs, isn't a new player friendly corner of the genre and that is almost by design. World of Warcraft is the only PvP that has broken into a eSports like foundation and even then it is a friendly incredibly niche thing joined by an even smaller viewer base.

The eSports attempt was cool to watch, but I ultimately can't blame them for dropping the chase.

 

[Odin.6487]

imagine having a ranked 5v5 game mode that you cant play with 4 of your friends. LAWL. 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Yis is great. So I voted that. 

[Sahne.6950]

15 hours ago, Vaux.7502 said:

This is literally PvP in any MMO, though.  WoW is the same exact kitten.  BDO is even worse and so fast you have 0% chance of understanding anything without a LOT of knowledge.  ESO is the same.  I can't think of a single MMO that has good, organized PvP where you can just start watching as a completely new player and start to grasp what's going on.  The genre just doesn't lend itself to that kind of viewing.

 

Just a example, to prove, that while other games are cluttered aswell... Guildwars2 is doing it on a whole nother level...

Look at this picture... it is just 4 People on the midnode... like... do you see what i mean?! Its not even alot of animations... the problem is, that these animations and particles are completly covering things that are more important, for example playermodels! and what are these redcircles that dont have a animation, besides the red circles itself?! Do these circles hurt me? What skill is it even? what is going on....?

The mission here: Without looking at the enemy hp-bar up top.... name the race of atleast 1 charackter in this picture....       spoiler: YOU CANT!

https://external-preview.redd.it/wRkCWLxMWVGfh1OABa_jMk3APCjpd1cXBGqwmzVuo40.jpg?auto=webp&s=99c53ca206aee18910af36cb91a7f2410acc6240

One guy is just a blinking star... the other one is completly invisible.....or is it two that are invisible?!.... and you cant see yourself, because of some TOOOTALLY IMPORTANT 88 Damageticks....  after looking at it the 9. time you then notice that there is a healkit from engineer, that you could have possibly taken to avoid your death..... yeah.... Do you see what i mean!?

This picture is gw2 pvp visibility in a nutshell.... we just learned how to deal with this...

and now we look at a fight involving 4 people in ESO structured pvp, because you mentioned it: https://gfycat.com/requiredaccurateblowfish

maybe its just me... but i think the visuals are ALOT clearer.... You can see what is going on, and most importantly, you can see every players characktermodel AT ALL TIMES, even during his "big-hit-alot-of-particles-Ultimate(Dawnbreaker!?").....  The weaponswing animations are a mess, cuz all of the animation cancelling... but the visualtell of skills and general clutter on the screen is no comparison to the mess that Gw2 is...

 

...And now we take a look at what happens when alot of people gather and attack the same Mob/boss/whatever.... First we take a look at Guildwars, and then we take a look at ESO.

This is the miniquest this time:  can you tell me what race he is playing?  Spoiler: YOU CANT!

https://imgur.com/a/DwRcV

 

for comparison:  Here is a Bossfight from ESO.

https://gfycat.com/fragrantlawfulannelid

aaand now we go back to Gw2....  https://gfycat.com/wigglyfatalkite

LOOK AT IT!!!😂😂😂 You cant see the Boss at all xDDD

Saying that gw2 is visually cluttered is a understatement at this point... ITS A MESS, even when comparing it to other games that are known for visual clutter like ESO.

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Swagg.9236]

On 8/13/2022 at 8:35 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Nah.

Ranked is important as one of the cogs to draw people to competitive.

It is not functioning properly due to matchmaker exploits, but rather than scrap the whole system, an effort needs to be made to fix what's wrong with it, like aggressive bans for proven wintraders that remove their accounts from ranking and leaderboards/gizmos, a comprehensive profession balance that ensures classes with high risk have high reward and lower risk has lower reward, and a restructuring of queuing for ranked.

Im almost certain that they have the foundation to draw pvp lovers from the furthest reaches of the internet with the foundation they have here, which makes it immensely frustrating to see it so squandered.

Competitive modes should be left in players' hands.  If you remove ranked, flatten out the in-game participation rewards across all PvP options, and you don't see a sub-culture of player-driven in-houses or a third-party site/forum organizing pick-up matches, then the game wasn't worth playing competitively in the first place.  First issue is that anet would never give the GW2 playerbase the tools to make anything from scratch (or even just from a stripped-down editor toolkit), but even if that were the case, something tells me that nobody would bother to put in the effort because this game's PvP scene is so fractured, insular and elitist.

[Sahne.6950]

9 hours ago, Odin.6487 said:

imagine having a ranked 5v5 game mode that you cant play with 4 of your friends. LAWL. 

Imagine that you can do this actually, and its called AT. But most people are scared and dont even bother signing up.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

16 hours ago, almostdaft.4319 said:

There isn't any inherent reason to removed ranked from Guild Wars 2. Taking it away would likely do more harm and really, I can't think of any good to come of it. The structure of an organized ranked ladder gives competitive players a goal.

Like others' have said, PvP, specifically for MMOs, isn't a new player friendly corner of the genre and that is almost by design. World of Warcraft is the only PvP that has broken into a eSports like foundation and even then it is a friendly incredibly niche thing joined by an even smaller viewer base.

The eSports attempt was cool to watch, but I ultimately can't blame them for dropping the chase.

 

Maybe 1% of players come to ranked to be competitive (of the maybe 500 players even doing PvP at all), the majority just play it to get the rewards like legendary armor, which should just be available to all PvPers just like in WvW. As you point out in your own post, competitive modes aren't the same as PvE, fighting experienced players is already alot harder than any boss, so there's no need for additional gates.

 

And honestly? I don't think 5v5 Conquest is really "competition", its a washing machine on a repeating cycle of repetitive gameplay and win/loss streaks, that only exists to burn you out. There's nothing interesting about it whatsoever beyond encountering a challenging opponent sometimes.

 

We'd need a ton of new maps to even keep it fresh after all these years.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Ghos.1326]

On 8/14/2022 at 4:11 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

I am sadly almost certain that gw2 pvp might be not as appealing than we think it is... 

Yesterday i showed a buddy some pvp footage. He is playing alot of other games, but he was watching for 3 minutes then turned to me and said:

" I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IS HAPPENING! THERE IS ANIMATIONS EVERYWHERE.... ITS SO SPAMMY I SERIOUSLY CANT TELL YOU WHAT IS GOING ON".  

And i felt that. That is one of the reasons why esports failed. Its godawful to watch cuz its so friking spammy. When you are not the one acting its almost impossible to properly graps whats going on.

Sadly, it's spammy because anet has buffed all the spammy things and has made some skills the most busted in the game (10k rev sword 3 while being completely invuln).

another example are stealth attacks from thief, they cost no init so missing or mistiming a stealth attack has no drawbacks. you can just stealth again and try again 4Head.

Old gw2 was nice, things that did great damage were slower, more telegraphed, higher cd, cost more resources, etc. and the traits were well balanced too, you got smaller increases per trait rather than these massive overall benefits and little to no drawbacks packed into one trait.

[Sahne.6950]

12 hours ago, Ghos.1326 said:

Sadly, it's spammy because anet has buffed all the spammy things and has made some skills the most busted in the game (10k rev sword 3 while being completely invuln).

another example are stealth attacks from thief, they cost no init so missing or mistiming a stealth attack has no drawbacks. you can just stealth again and try again 4Head.

Old gw2 was nice, things that did great damage were slower, more telegraphed, higher cd, cost more resources, etc. and the traits were well balanced too, you got smaller increases per trait rather than these massive overall benefits and little to no drawbacks packed into one trait.

excuse me? what?

Lets take it slow:

Rev sword3..... DOES NOT DEAL 10K damage.... it just doesnt.... not in pvp or WvW.

next:

"Stealth attacks cost no ini, and if they miss it it has no drawback and they can jsut stealth again....."

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, show me how to stealth, without using initiative or a utilityskill.....   The cost of the Stealthattack is the initiative you use when stealthing... just saying..... Also you have to enlighten me, how wasting 7 ini for a smokefield+heartseeker combo, only for the opponent to turn a tiny bit before you backstab, so you miss the 90°degree window and stab him in the shoulder... So your backstab deals 790 damage and your revealed for 4 seconds right in the face of you opponent....  PLEASE enlighten me how that is not a drawback and i can just restealth for free without using another 7 ini or a utilityskill... PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME WITH THE HIDDEN NINJA TECHNIQUES! Apparently i just succ at Thief... because i thought thats how it works... but apparently you do know more!

Edited August 17, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Aeolus.3615]

WOW! sword 3 that hitted all hits on the selected target and didnt selected random pixeis in the air to hit? im impressed, sounds like the rev was cheating if all hits didnt miss the target and didnt hit a pole, the ground, some random pixel and then the player.

On a more serious note:  @Sahne.6950 Unreliable Assault can reach arround that damage on a player (low armr vs low armor) with quite some  vulnerability same way that Jalis hammer spin can reach 10k damage, players only see in the screen the total damage of the several hits of the skill and most ignore combat log.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Ghos.1326]

7 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

excuse me? what?

Lets take it slow:

Rev sword3..... DOES NOT DEAL 10K damage.... it just doesnt.... not in pvp or WvW.

next:

"Stealth attacks cost no ini, and if they miss it it has no drawback and they can jsut stealth again....."

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, show me how to stealth, without using initiative or a utilityskill.....   The cost of the Stealthattack is the initiative you use when stealthing... just saying..... Also you have to enlighten me, how wasting 7 ini for a smokefield+heartseeker combo, only for the opponent to turn a tiny bit before you backstab, so you miss the 90°degree window and stab him in the shoulder... So your backstab deals 790 damage and your revealed for 4 seconds right in the face of you opponent....  PLEASE enlighten me how that is not a drawback and i can just restealth for free without using another 7 ini or a utilityskill... PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME WITH THE HIDDEN NINJA TECHNIQUES! Apparently i just succ at Thief... because i thought thats how it works... but apparently you do know more!

You seem a bit mad. Please don't make me embarrass you.

[Xentera.4560]

At this point a completely random “ranked” matching system would result in better matches than the current kitten MMR that tries to force a win rate instead of actually making 2 competitive teams.

[Wolfb.7025]

I'm bad at PvP, but I play ranked because it has more rewards for the same painful experience.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

On 8/16/2022 at 1:18 PM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Maybe 1% of players come to ranked to be competitive (of the maybe 500 players even doing PvP at all), the majority just play it to get the rewards like legendary armor, which should just be available to all PvPers just like in WvW. As you point out in your own post, competitive modes aren't the same as PvE, fighting experienced players is already alot harder than any boss, so there's no need for additional gates.

 

And honestly? I don't think 5v5 Conquest is really "competition", its a washing machine on a repeating cycle of repetitive gameplay and win/loss streaks, that only exists to burn you out. There's nothing interesting about it whatsoever beyond encountering a challenging opponent sometimes.

So basically if you don't enjoy the idea of competitive sPvP, nobody should be able to?

We've never had a competitive sPvP option to begin with. That's why there aren't any competitive players here. The fact that casual-drawing freebie rewards only exist in Ranked is comical proof of which, and while its easy enough to agree with those rewards being more accessible from different modes, in no way does that justify losing Ranked.

That in itself would be a massive gate for competitive players, leaving their only remaining option as ATs.

On 8/16/2022 at 1:18 PM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

We'd need a ton of new maps to even keep it fresh after all these years.

very #relatable