October 4 Balance Update Preview

[pallas.8150]

Glad Warrior got some love. The others are rather.... confusing?

[KryTiKaL.3125]

2 hours ago, Bomboed.5697 said:

Terrible patch from Engineer point of view. A lot of changes nobody asked for and not a single one change people asked for.
Scrapper is ruined. Turrets are still useless. Most gadgets are still useless. Not a single change for pistols.

I agree that turrets can probably use a look in terms of their mechanical functionality and their place in the game,but I think it has to be acknowledged that, yeah, no one asked for these particular changes because the people who were playing Engineer (not Core) were perfectly content with its current state of being bloated and overperforming regardless of the state of those other Utilities and Skills, not even just from Mechanist. That doesn't mean it didn't need nerfing for the betterment of the overall PvP/WvW health of the game, as well as to tone it down in PvE.

Bladesworn was in the same situation for Warrior; sure Bladesworn was doing fine in PvP and PvE but in PvP its sustain was extremely bloated and Bladesworn was winning almost entirely from attrition. In comparison Core, Spellbreaker, and Berserker have also just in general been completely mutilated for years (literally since 2020 and even before). This has not been the case for Engineer overall.

[Bomboed.5697]

11 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

It is only for WvW and PvP it is already written in notes

Only Quickness change is WvW and PvP only. everything else will also affect PvE.

[Vallun.2071]

this is all really nice, but can we get a new WvW map or a new PvP game mode?

[Polar.8634]

1 minute ago, Bomboed.5697 said:

Only Quickness change is WvW and PvP only. everything else will also affect PvE.

Ye, and for ground target wells it is irrelevant for PvE, where fights are mostly stationary or have stationary phases

[melodyspectrum.2980]

18 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Well if they can function fine why can't scrapper? Why is scrapper the exception?

Don't worry though your wells are still better than chronomancers by a mile.

 

It's literally written in my comment but I guess I'll repeat it, because you can just swap those skills for non-ground targeted ones in other classes (save for Chrono i guess, and that is exactly why I don't play it, because I'm aware I can't). And what utilities are you going to take if you want to play quickness scrapper in pve? Not gyros?

[melodyspectrum.2980]

16 minutes ago, Jash.3104 said:

As a disabled player this kills my favourite spec for this exact reason. Now I'll be locked to mech.

 

Sad high five. I don't even like mech but I guess I'll have to close myself in mech jail if I want to do any group content and not drag my friends down. :x

[lotus.5672]

2 hours ago, Lujan.1865 said:

Can we address all the ridiculous perma-stealth thiefs in WvW that are literally unkillable, bcs once you get them down they just stealth and shadowstep away? So they just run around and bully you every time their health regenerates?

But i guess WvW roaming doesnt matter, so we dont need to fix this at all, right...

Also, love the usual "accidental" buff to a random mech build. Great job.

Shadow arts dp thieves arent able to perma stealth for a while now.

[Kuma.1503]

7 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

Ye, and for ground target wells it is irrelevant for PvE, where fights are mostly stationary or have stationary phases

Say you don't play scrapper without saying you don't play Scrapper. 

[Myror.7521]

@otto.5684 idk man i like they bringing back dostortion to chono. But distortion on virtuoso is a bit mutch it will just end ub in a block/evade spam viesta with Tons of dmg. While this alone will be distgusting to play against just a mirage with 2 dodges and the fact it could actually casting special skill while do so will end ub been like pve mirage just endless dodge/invu spam while deal dps on enemy at same time.  Rly in hope they will get an eye on mes in those things cause it will be more annoying to fight against than just an bsw what was at least hit able lel xd

 

[Xenesis.6389]

20 minutes ago, Jash.3104 said:

As a disabled player this kills my favourite spec for this exact reason. Now I'll be locked to mech.

Go to options, under combat/movement, you can check off two options for aoes

1. Lock ground target at maximum skill range

2. Snap ground target to current target.

There's a third option to change the casting of ground targeting to instant cast on button press.

Have a target, including your commander, free cast on them as usual.

[Bast.7253]

1 minute ago, Pati.2438 said:

@otto.5684 idk man i like they bringing back dostortion to chono. But distortion on virtuoso is a bit mutch it will just end ub in a block/evade spam viesta with Tons of dmg. While this alone will be distgusting to play against just a mirage with 2 dodges and the fact it could actually casting special skill while do so will end ub been like pve mirage just endless dodge/invu spam while deal dps on enemy at same time.  Rly in hope they will get an eye on mes in those things cause it will be more annoying to fight against than just an bsw what was at least hit able lel xd

 

I'm assuming they justified the change to virtuoso because (while it can put out damaging conditions) it doesn't do so as much as mirage. And that could be really bad for a holo!

It's probably also to encourage people to run something other than signet distortion trait, of the ones that do. Which is fine but now that bladesworn is less menacing there aren't as many professions that run unblockable. So - at the end of the day it may wind up WORSE than mirage ever was. We'll have to see how it goes. It's still kind of a gimmicky spec full or projectiles that can be blocked/reflected/los'd but then again so could mirage - mirage just had a utility and axe 3 for more chase potential and additional dazes from ambush attacks. 

We'll see how it goes. I've never been the biggest fan of virt anyway and I don't see it much in matches so it might not be that big of a change in the long run.

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

Overall I like the direction that the team is moving in. The revisiting of elite spec tradeoffs is long overdue in my opinion, and I was literally CHEERING when cmc said that some tradeoffs make the specs feel clunky. I've been feeling that clunkiness for a long time and I'm glad to see it get addressed.

As a warrior main, the berserker buffs are exciting. The defense traitline seems very powerful now -- the endure pain for 2.5 seconds on headbutt trait in particular could be a bit busted. Berserker did need the sustain though, and it's a super fun spec to play so I love to see it in the meta. (Side note: Earthshatter getting damage is awesome. Finally getting some damage back on cc's is so exciting to me.)

The soulbeast change is super exciting. Being able to swap pets while melded adds a lot to the profession mechanic, and I think it will be very fun to play and experiment with.

Vindicator changes are solid. The speed of dodging definitely feels slow in the live game, and the dodge tradeoff feels too oppressive. I can already tell vindicator will be much more fluid and satisfying to play after the patch.

Chrono/virtuoso getting distortion is a good change. Don't know if it will be enough to bring either back into relevance, but it's definitely a good start.

The people complaining about Scrapper need to understand that it was nerfed because scrapper is so dominant in WvW. The other game modes kinda got caught in the crossfire because you can't split the functionality of a skill. Idk if this change was the best solution but it definitely did need to be nerfed in WvW.

Super excited for the future. The team has restored my hope with this preview 🙂

Edited September 16, 2022 by Elementalist Owner.7802

[bernstein adelheid.8590]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

Head Butt: Reduced berserk mode extension from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP and WvW. This skill no longer removes stability from the user, and it no longer deals increased damage when removing stability. Increased power coefficient from 3.0 to 4.5 in PvE only.

Please, don't apply this change in PvE. The self stun that headbutt inflict is actually used with the skill outrage, in order to extend the Berserk duration. 

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

Berserk: This skill has been moved to slot 2 of the profession mechanic bar. Core burst skills are now accessible in slot 1 of the profession mechanic bar for the berserker specialization.

Bye bye, years of muscle memory. 

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

Entering berserk mode no longer initiates an attack, and now counts as a rage skill instead of a level 3 burst skill.

But why?  Was the berserker's Burst damage ability at the start of a fight/start of a new phase this problematic?

[miiroto.3672]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

Vindicator no longer consumes all endurance to dodge. Reduced endurance cost of dodging from 100 to 50. Reduced dodge evade window from 1.6 seconds to 0.8 seconds.

Adding double dodge to vindicator while halving the evade frame is great change, but feels that the barrier dodge will be super strong now when the trait itself didnt got changed.

Edit: dodge traits will be nerfed too, so wont be too strong.

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

Scrapper wells are now stationary ground-targeted skills with a range of 900.

This change makes scrapper's well lose all uniqueness, and potentionally create strong combos (mainly the stealth AoE and shredder AoE).

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

Punishment skills no longer inflict crippled when removing a boon. Increased number of torment stacks applied when removing a boon from 1 to 3.

Now scourge will fill enemies with torment, creating annoying condi build comparable to condi specter.

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

Draconic Echo: This trait now grants might instead of quickness in PvP and WvW.

Good change, Draconic Echo made herald do anything 50% faster. But changing it into might application will make it eazy to apply 25 might now.

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

• Elevated Bond: This trait no longer prevents pet swapping while in combat. Traits that trigger when swapping pets no longer trigger when entering Beastmode.
• Eternal Bond: This trait has been reworked. It now grants healing when using a merged skill. You can swap pets while merged.

Allowing to swap pets in combat is great change, but allowing trait Eternal Bond to swap pets inside beast form will create a lot of overpowered sinergies off the "on pet swap" traits, in addition to these traits proccing on normall pet swap and "merging" with pet, there will be a big ammount of procs of such traits.

Edit: pet swap traits wont proc off merging, so it wont create strong combinations.

On 9/14/2022 at 6:22 PM, Double Tap said:

Glyph of the Stars: This skill is no longer channeled and instead creates the spell area of effect after an initial casting time.

• Base: Reduced the number of pulses from 7 to 6. This skill now grants stability instead of preventing condition applications to allies in the area.

 

If base Glyph of the Stars apply stability on each pulse, then this skill will be extremely overpowered in WvW.

Edit: the aoe is bit smaller than expected, so wont be as strong.

Edited September 23, 2022 by miiroto.3672
Stream preview notes

[Jash.3104]

3 minutes ago, Elementalist Owner.7802 said:

The people complaining about Scrapper need to understand that it was nerfed because scrapper is so dominant in WvW. The other game modes kinda got caught in the crossfire because you can't split the functionality of a skill. Idk if this change was the best solution but it definitely did need to be nerfed in WvW.

Yeah this is the fundamental problem of this change. Changing a core mechanic makes it fundamentally different to play in all game modes. Not everyone plays WvW, why do we have to be affected by a substantial change to fix a problem that only exists in WvW?

[CHEVAL.5947]

Engi: CD increase on Fumigate and Med Kit 3 really hurts - while cleansing on scrapper is certainly strong it requires good timing and positioning; not sure if that's a good change

PvE: Give Stabi share to support Engis, Healscrapper would be a fantastic HFB substitute, if it had a bit more Stabi; Over Shield seems like the natural home for Stabi share, but that also buffs Mechanists.

"Streamlined Kits" ("Tools"): Make the internal CD per Kit, not 1 iCD for all Kits; also the effect on Bomb Kit is ridiculous: 240 range on a pull is risibly low - almost contradictory: why would I need to pull adds/players together, that are already in proximity?

Most Elixirs could use a buff, especially their main slot / utility while their respective toolbelt (F1-5) skills need a radius increase:

Elixir B: Affect team, give resistance instead of swiftness, increase Toolbelt's radius to 360, let it always provide stabi and fury

Elixir R: Make it instant and a stunbreak

Elixir X: Increase Moa duration on the toolbelt: Hard to land (blockable), BIG tradeoff (core Engi exclusive), Moa gets a free evade on 5, so combined with the current low duration its not functional as a skill ought to secure a kill

ToolKIT: make it's Toolbelt a stunbreak and move "Throw Wrench" to its second slot skill

"Slick Shoes": Let it affect stationary targets, like standing bosses etc. Make the Toolbelt also affect other players (radius can be low)

"Gadgeteer": CD-reduction should also affect the Toolbelt skills of the Gadgets, like HGH does with all Elixirs (throw elixirs, elixirs in kits etc); give battering Ram a 3rd charge when traited

"Rocket Boots": Give its Toolbelt ("Rocket Kick") a longer range and a shorter aftercast or rather shorter precast: you dont close a gap when using this to chase down a moving/fleeing target - your target even gains distance. This skill always kicks air in situations when it SHOULD be useful, pathetic.

"Static Discharge" ("Tools"): Make the bolt always fly towards your target, instead of vanishing into the floor, when proccing it with untaregted Toolbelts

"Lock On": Let the Fury part of it also affect your team (Engi has a really hard time sharing Fury); iCD is too long

 

Warrior changes seem interesting, nice1

 

When I read the introduction about the tradeoffs of Elite specs, I was really hoping for second Mirage dodge. "Peak Mirage" was undoubtedly a pain in the A*s, but it's really bad design for a class to have really different flow and feeling in different game modes.

 

Mesmer needs a source of Regen-share; Healmesmer is a nice idea, but currently a mess: you devot your whole built and utilities to provide some healing, while each other healer does the same HPS by JUST applying regen; "Inspiration" traitline is a mess: Wanna heal? take all mantras! But what would also be nice on a support? Right, Aegis share via Signets.. Well, we cant get that as well

While we're at it: Signet of inspiration - it has been nerfed into nothingness.

 

Mirage: Make a Grandmaster, that lets ALL ambushes provide Alac. This way Alac competes with "Infinite Horizon" which is Utility vs Damage (thus a good tradeoff). Also double Staff Mirage gets stale quickly, give us more flexibility; also Alac Mirage cant be played underwater currently

 

"Dune Cloak": Increase the Radius of the effect - 180 radius is a joke; Maybe add the afformentioned Alac to this trait, thus you have a nice distribution of Grandmasters: Damage (IR), Selfish defense ("Elusive Mind") and Team support via alac and strips (improved "Dune Cloak")

Edited September 16, 2022 by CHEVAL.5947

[Myror.7521]

@bernstein adelheid.8590 to answer your last question. This might have  been a Direktion cause of pvp. Cause Entering Berserker Mode is actually an interruptable Burst skill. So everytime you get Interrupted while use it it goes straigth on a 5 seconds CD what is a hughe dmg loss and specialy in pvp it means simply the death to ya. To the first question they dont touched the extension thing in pve. They only Touch them in pvp to hold them just in balance. Also the headbutt thing does not change anything in pve the only thing that it might bring is a faster dmg window thanks to you do not self cc with stabi on headdbutt now.

 

Other said over all the Funktion of zerker is just the same in pve as before the only differences are that you get core bursts outside of the zerk Mode so you could hold your now 4 Stacks of Berserkers strength. And of cause no 4k dmg when zerk Mode used but as said also no self sustain when headbutt used cause you normaly get good stabi in pve as long as you do not play solo. Means the dmg over all should be the same as before maybe even higher on condi now.

 

[mirage.8046]

Ohh boy here I go with the shower thoughts.

Of course, scrapper gets blasted off into irrelevancy. mobile combo fields are undeniably good, and now that's going away? Also, what is wrong with them granting quickness in wvw and pvp? Mine field losing boon removal hurts... what is the reasoning for going back on promoting the two boon removal skills engi had?

I am loving the small change to chrono and virtuoso; distortion was sorely needed for the latter.
I'm mixed on the boonrip changes in wvw; the nerfed boonrip on mesmer and engi is so gonna hurt for roaming, but in zergs, it won't prevent squads stacking engis and mesmers with throw mine and phantasmal disenchanter.
 

Generally, if applying quickness is that problematic in competitive modes, put an ICD on the traits that allow you to apply it. No need to kill these traits.

R.I.P to tactical reload on every bladesworn build you can think of. I feel so bad for the healsworn especially. Did warrior need any more damage modifiers? Never mind they're boring, they're everywhere on warrior's core specs.

 

 

[Sylv.5324]

As an engi main, I'm ok with the scrapper changes because I will have more control over where I want to drop things. (I  played Tempest for a long time and got used to dropping wells where the group/zerg was headed anyway.) But the one problem I have is that Stealth Gyro no longer works like an elite should: stealth will be confined to a single spot. That's just not really useful except for resing and IMO an elite skill should do more than that.

If it applied stealth on everyone who touches it like veil does, then that'd be great.

Though it was always weird to me that stealth was an engineer thing anyway.

[Jonesy.9728]

Please let me turn off the Christawful virtuoso daggers. My ammo count is already on my bar, and there is enough visual noise going on. 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Between the Ventari changes this year and the Druid changes in these patch notes, I can't tell you how happy I am. My favorite support choices finally gaining relevance! Feels like Christmas honestly.

1 hour ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Soulbeast is probably just going to completely replace guardian in WvW and dominate every role except boon hate.  The amount of stability it's getting with all that bonus damage and literally no tradeoff is absolutely stupid.

Prepare for pirate ship.

Am I misunderstanding part of your post, part of the balance notes, or is this sarcasm? What increased group stability is it getting? The only increase in group stab it is getting is an increase in reliability thanks to the LotP radius buff. Druid is getting group stab through Glyph of the Stars, though.

[BlkPrince.2854]

Tactical Reload is that change going to impact PVE? 

[Lyn.7902]

some of this is good... some of this is horrible. Where is cele removal from WvW with these changes? the cele soulbeast in roaming and small scale grps is going to be even more broken. Please stop, christ.... some things are going to be more broken than before.

[Vaiye.5709]

Team balance hydrated.