Is warrior truly the worst class in the game?

[DaniTheHero.6318]

If so, is there something that can be done about it at this point?

What objective reason is there to play Warrior across any of the game modes? Other than an attraction to the theme or asthethics, why really play Warrior now?

Across core and 3 Elites, it seems like the least verstaile/serves the least "roles" among all the classes, and even in the few roles it does have, other classes do them better and usuallly achieve it with less effort (Due to being range or simply less forgiving rotations).

This is less a discussion about "Warrior as a proffesional" and more of a general discussion about the place of a certain class that seems to have been outshined by all the other classes in the game.

Edited October 6, 2022 by DaniTheHero.6318

[Mortime.1359]

Now I don't have enough experience in the game nor on my warrior to make such bold statements, nevertheless I did feel extremely out of place when I was trying to play him in WvW. In a world of boon and aoe spam warrior does feel like kind of a fifth wheel tbh.

[DaniTheHero.6318]

21 minutes ago, Mortime.1359 said:

Now I don't have enough experience in the game nor on my warrior to make such bold statements, nevertheless I did feel extremely out of place when I was trying to play him in WvW. In a world of boon and aoe spam warrior does feel like kind of a fifth wheel tbh.

That is indeed the WvW experience for it.

Playing Warrior in PVE, especially Raid/Strike content is no different.
Warrior of any elite is only relevant as DPS on these, as any "possible" support builds are completley irrelevant when things like Firebrand and Mechanists exist, among other ones.

Spellbreaker and Berserker are obviously far from being the "meta"/top DPS and, and while Bladesworn can be potentionally the highest DPS in that enviroment, it's far far FAR hardest to accomplish than the close second and thirds that due it with far less effort and risk. Not to mention warrior provides far less boons when playing as pure DPS than pretty much any other class.

In sPVP before Bladesworn Warrior was a literal troll pick for years, and now with the Tactial reoad nerf it's not as viable as plenty of other options again.

The warrior experience can be pretty much be summed with : "Why aren't you playing Guardian already?"

I think the only content warrior does "Well" is the Open world, due to high amount of cleave it has, but that is by far the last reason you'd want to main a class obviously.

Edited October 6, 2022 by DaniTheHero.6318

[Hashberry.4510]

2 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

Other than an attraction to the theme or asthethics, why really play Warrior now?

This really should be enough for anyone. This is a game.

[Borked.6824]

It's less about Warrior being bad and more about a small group of specs that are disproportionately more advantaged.  Imbalance is expected, but current meta classes are well beyond "overpowered" for their purposes.  I'd dare say that Warrior as a whole right now is not as terrible as people perceive them.

[Randulf.7614]

No, we are amazing

[Treacy.4067]

Not to mention Bloody Roar, a Grandmaster trait mind you, that has been bugged since they "buffed" it yet actually ended up being a nerf.  Feels like I'm hurting the group unless I bring a mechanist so I'm just avoiding group stuff until things get fixed. The balance in this game is off the rails right now.  

[AliamRationem.5172]

21 minutes ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

This really should be enough for anyone. This is a game.

It's a game with cooperative and competitive modes.  Psychological defense mechanisms aside, normal people care about how they are perceived in social interactions.  Cooperative/competitive games are no different from real life in this sense.  This impacts your own perception and subsequently your enjoyment of the game (i.e. If people perceive your performance to be bad enough to routinely say something to you about it, it makes your experience less rewarding.).

Obviously, not all of these issues come down to game balance, but there's what we can change and what we can't, right?  That's why balance matters.  If it's too out of whack it makes the game feel less rewarding for the have-nots than the haves.

[DaniTheHero.6318]

59 minutes ago, Borked.6824 said:

It's less about Warrior being bad and more about a small group of specs that are disproportionately more advantaged.  Imbalance is expected, but current meta classes are well beyond "overpowered" for their purposes.  I'd dare say that Warrior as a whole right now is not as terrible as people perceive them.

Although this techincally may be true, there truly really isn't a difference between saying "Warrior isn't bad, everything else is just overpowered" and "Warrior is bad, everything else is decent". Because the end result is all the same. One class objectively weaker than many others.

[DaniTheHero.6318]

40 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's a game with cooperative and competitive modes.  Psychological defense mechanisms aside, normal people care about how they are perceived in social interactions.  Cooperative/competitive games are no different from real life in this sense.  This impacts your own perception and subsequently your enjoyment of the game (i.e. If people perceive your performance to be bad enough to routinely say something to you about it, it makes your experience less rewarding.).

Obviously, not all of these issues come down to game balance, but there's what we can change and what we can't, right?  That's why balance matters.  If it's too out of whack it makes the game feel less rewarding for the have-nots than the haves.

That's not entirely true. Sure in the end if you play casually, it doesn't matter what you play as long as you have fun, and even less casually as long as you're doing fine, it doesn't *really* matter*.

 

However there is a difference here. This isn't a matter of similar classes and one of the two happened to have just smaller numberes.
It's an objective reality where one class is by far, not as useful as the others, weaker than the others, and in some cases harder to play.

I mean Mechanist isn't UNFUN to play. Why shouldn't I just swap my DPS warrior to Mechanist? I'll have to focus far less, i'll exert less effort, and i'll even do BETTER than I would've done with my warrior.
Or what if my only role isn't needed in the group i'm currently in? Instead of either hindering it or leaving to find a different one, I could simply swap into a strong support or healer build instead using either the same elite or one of the others within the same class. I mean what would I do with my warrior? Throw (the terrible) banners and AOE shake it off?

There's a bigger fundemental problem here than just "Caring with others think". There is practically no objective reason, from a long term gameplay point of view, to play Warrior when it barely does anything and the few things it does do it does poorly compared to other classes that are EASIER to play.
 

This doesn't just end in PVE.
Today I had my mind blown. I was playing Warrior for years, including in spvp. I was always aware of how poor it is. Today I had enough. I tried mechanist, for the FIRST time. And faired better, post nerf than I ever had in 8 years as a Warrior of any elite. I won 5 games in a row, died maybe like once throughout the entire couple of matches. The experience was just night and day. Tons of mobility, CC, stunbreaks, all while being uber safe from a distance and dealing massive damage. Like, why would I EVER play warrior again in spvp?

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by DaniTheHero.6318

[Fueki.4753]

Warrior is objectively weaker than the other professions, when it comes to numbers and efficiency.

But for theme and visuals, I consider them superior to the other professions.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[AliamRationem.5172]

9 minutes ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

That's not entirely true. Sure in the end if you play casually, it doesn't matter what you play as long as you have fun, and even less casually as long as you're doing fine, it doesn't *really* matter*.

 

However there is a difference here. This isn't a matter of similar classes and one of the two happened to have just smaller numberes.
It's an objective reality where one class is by far, not as useful as the others, weaker than the others, and in some cases harder to play.

I mean Mechanist isn't UNFUN to play. Why shouldn't I just swap my DPS warrior to Mechanist? I'll have to focus far less, i'll exert less effort, and i'll even do BETTER than I would've done with my warrior.
Or what if my only role isn't needed in the group i'm currently in? Instead of either hindering it or leaving to find a different one, I could simply swap into a strong support or healer build instead using either the same elite or one of the others within the same class. I mean what would I do with my warrior? Throw (the terrible) banners and AOE shake it off?

There's a bigger fundemental problem here than just "Caring with others think". There is practically no objective reason, from a long term gameplay point of view, to play Warrior when it barely does anything and the few things it does do it does poorly compared to other classes that are EASIER to play.
 

This doesn't just end in PVE.
Today I had my mind blown. I was playing Warrior for years, including in spvp. I was always aware of how poor it is. Today I had enough. I tried mechanist, for the FIRST time. And faired better, post nerf than I ever had in 8 years as a Warrior of any elite. I won 5 games in a row, died maybe like once throughout the entire couple of matches. The experience was just night and day. Tons of mobility, CC, stunbreaks, all while being uber safe from a distance and dealing massive damage. Like, why would I EVER play warrior again in spvp?

 

Agreed.  The person I was responding to was essentially saying that it's a game and therefore we shouldn't care as long as we're having fun.  As you and I both point out, your "fun" is impacted by balance decisions.  Your class is less rewarding to play if it's objectively terrible compared to the alternatives, regardless of how "fun" its play style might be (and I would know as a weaver main for years!).

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 minute ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

Or you could grow up a bit, put down the meter and stop worrying about everyones numbers. 

That's a good business model.  ANet should hire you to lead class development.  "Our new philosophy is: Who cares!?  Grow up and stop worrying about numbers so we can focus on cash shop cosmetics!"

[DanAlcedo.3281]

31 minutes ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

Or you could grow up a bit, put down the meter and stop worrying about everyones numbers. 

Try Warrior. 

Go into a Wvw zerg and try to be usefull. 

Go into PvP and try to be usefull. 

Go into PvE and try to be usefull. 

After that please come back and tell us how it went. 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

I have the 'win 150 unranked or ranked games with this profession' title with 8 professions. Guess which one I don't have?

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

5 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

it seems like the least verstaile/serves the least "roles"

Ironically, Guild Wars 2 tried to do away with roles in the beginning. Now we're in the future and it looks like they were wrong lol. It seems like MMO's will always need roles.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

This really should be enough for anyone. This is a game.

 

I really don't know why you got 7 confused marks, but those people really have their priorities confused. 

*Gets bullied in almost every class interaction I have for playing warrior*

 

3 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

Or you could grow up a bit, put down the meter and stop worrying about everyones numbers. 

True!

*Gets kicked out of raid groups for not pulling my weight* 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Borked.6824]

4 hours ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

Although this techincally may be true, there truly really isn't a difference between saying "Warrior isn't bad, everything else is just overpowered" and "Warrior is bad, everything else is decent". Because the end result is all the same. One class objectively weaker than many others.

That's why I added "disproportionately".  You could knock a few of these classes down a peg or five and they'd still be first pick.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I'm stubborn that's all.

[Lucentfir.7430]

10 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

This really should be enough for anyone. This is a game.

All due respect, aesthetic and theme is one thing, but having it work in practice to decent effectivity to fit said aesthetic and theme in gameplay is another. It should be clarified a lot of the grievances seen here on the sub forums come from the Spvp/WvW side,  PVE side you have a point and it's a valid one, warrior not at all bad there, but don't be so quick to dismiss others because being in the nerfed purgatory greatly effects the enjoyment of the game for people that main/play the profession in other game modes.  

8 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

Or you could grow up a bit, put down the meter and stop worrying about everyones numbers. 

PVE yes. 

[Kalthea.4326]

Warrior needs a few changes. It needs shouts and banners to become usable. Add in an elite shout and tweak the numbers on the rest, then change banners to a point-blank AoE so that I don't have to point where they go, offering up a playstyle that warriors should have had since launch: Melee Master (seriously, Scrapper has this and it works great for them, give it to us!). On top of that, give me options for ranged damage. Make longbow 2 not fan out, and instead shoot 3 shots so I don't need to treat it like a melee weapon, add damage to rifle and change the 3 to not have a dumb cone explosion and just explode. Little things like these could drastically change how warrior plays and make it more competitive with other classes.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Kalthea.4326

[Kalthea.4326]

Whoops duplicate post!

Edited October 6, 2022 by Kalthea.4326

[Treacy.4067]

21 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

Or you could grow up a bit, put down the meter and stop worrying about everyones numbers. 

Or you could wise up a bit, stop with nonsense retorts and realize what an mmo actually is.

[Zekent.3652]

On 10/6/2022 at 8:48 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's a game with cooperative and competitive modes.  Psychological defense mechanisms aside, normal people care about how they are perceived in social interactions.  Cooperative/competitive games are no different from real life in this sense.  This impacts your own perception and subsequently your enjoyment of the game (i.e. If people perceive your performance to be bad enough to routinely say something to you about it, it makes your experience less rewarding.).

Obviously, not all of these issues come down to game balance, but there's what we can change and what we can't, right?  That's why balance matters.  If it's too out of whack it makes the game feel less rewarding for the have-nots than the haves.

On 10/6/2022 at 10:51 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Try Warrior. 

Go into a Wvw zerg and try to be usefull. 

Go into PvP and try to be usefull. 

Go into PvE and try to be usefull. 

After that please come back and tell us how it went. 

 

 Don't expect unbiased opinions from a ranger fanatic, that also said that the old bladesworn abuse was fun 😂

"It's okay that your class has low powercreep and versatility unlike my class in a competitive gamemode, it's a game after all"

aaaayyyyyyyyy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited October 7, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[eXruina.4956]

yes.. warrior kit is still pretty lackluster in comparison to what the 8 other classes got.

 

im praying for follow through and hope we continue to get updated in coming balance patches. 🙏

Edited October 7, 2022 by eXruina.4956