February 14 Balance Update Preview

[Stadsport.8714]

On 2/3/2023 at 2:39 PM, ZEUStiger.3590 said:

Is that it? Are you kidding me? So we're just going to pretend like power berserker is in a good spot, huh? One minuscule PvE-focused berserker change for a spec that's massively lagging behind almost everyone else? Is this what we've been waiting for 2.5 months? Do you have some spite towards berserker? Bladesworn and spellbreaker are your new favorite toys, and balancing berserker is no fun?

Current benchmark is 34924 dps. This change would add 457 more dps, for a total of 35381. When bladesworn is at 40608 and spellbreaker - at 40351. Power berserker received a 1.3% buff, when it needed a 14.5% improvement to join the 40k club. Give me ONE good reason why it shouldn't.

You wrecked this spec into the ground half-a-year ago, and you have done kitten-all to remedy the situation. You have failed to even bring it back up to the level it was at before EoD (38k), and it WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH EVEN BACK THEN to see popular adoption as a dps build, much less now when we have several >40k builds. Berserker is currently being played by 0.67% of players in raids - the only place they can compete in due to, ironically, the lack of burst damage that's oh so coveted in fractals - and that's counting BOTH POWER AND CONDI builds. 0.41% in fractals. Power berserker's benchmark is laughably low, considering the build's selfish nature, and that's even assuming you engage in the exploitey weapon stowing gameplay. If you don't - the dps falls down by another ~1.5k, putting the dps-only power berserker on the same level as some QUICKNESS-DPS builds of other classes.

When soulbeast dared to fall out of favor a little bit due to nerfed OWP, you panicked and buffed every weapon skill they use in the very next update, but when berserker is down in the ditch for half-a-year - here, have a single +0.1 coefficient, suck it up. Oh and we're going to bug your trait for 3 months, just for the hell of it. This is frankly insulting.

Fix what you broke! It's been 6 months! All you need to change is numbers! How many more months do we need to wait for it to happen?

I still can't figure out why a greed-DPS class (berserker) is doing less DPS than the one using the Defense traitline. It's really frustrating to have ANet actively telling players not to play berserker. 

[AshkyLicious.4729]

@Rubi Bayer.8493

Is it possible to get an update about Mirage and the state that it's in, from the balance team? We Mirage mainers are very concerned since there's been nothing but silence from the balance team in this matter! Especially when we see other classes getting fixed and buffed. We feel left out.

An update from the team would help alot!

[Myror.7521]

@CalmTheStorm.2364 Simple answer ^^ its just warr. We are only allowed to have some cc breaks but stabi would be op! xD

[Myror.7521]

@Stadsport.8714 nah they want us to play Berserker as a Condition focused spec. Only problem here is that it isnt even decent on this one spot xD.

[Bunny.9834]

6 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Please help me understand how Dolyak Stance (stability, reduced physical and condition damage, removes movement impairing conditions and prevents their reapplication) deserves a 40s CD, but Balanced Stance (immunity to critical hits, pulsing stab and swiftness) deserves a 50s CD?

because they wanna make sure the pew pew rangers are uncatchable. 🤡

[Moradorin.6217]

4 hours ago, Solstice.5790 said:

Currently Orders from Above with Righteous Rebel gives 9 seconds of Alac, you can keep it up permanently (solo) with boon duration close to 80%.

I'm not sure if "around 33% boon duration should be enough" is meant in general, which does not work. Or were you talking about the upcoming balance patch, where that 33% alacrity duration might get added?

He means after the upcoming patch Alacren will should be in a better place cause it will be able to run mostly Zerker now so it can have numbers more inline with other alacdps specs that can presently outperform it pretty consistently.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:41 AM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Please help me understand how Dolyak Stance (stability, reduced physical and condition damage, removes movement impairing conditions and prevents their reapplication) deserves a 40s CD, but Balanced Stance (immunity to critical hits, pulsing stab and swiftness) deserves a 50s CD?

Also, you can't really believe that Dolyak Stance should have the same CD as berserker stance... Right??

 

As an aside, please reduce berserker stance CD to 20s. It never got revisited after the change to resistance, and it is greatly over nerfed at this point.

Edited February 11, 2023 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 2/2/2023 at 6:19 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Core

• Signets of Power: This trait has been reworked. It now causes signet skills to grant initiative when activated.
• Signet of Malice: Reduced cooldown from 15 seconds to 12 seconds.
• Signet of Shadows: Reduced cooldown from 20 seconds to 16 seconds.
• Infiltrator's Signet: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds in PvE, and from 35 seconds to 28 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Trickster: This trait no longer reduces the cooldown of trick skills. Increased the number of conditions removed from 1 to 2.
• Caltrops: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds.
• Haste: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 24 seconds in PvE, and from 45 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Roll for Initiative: Reduced cooldown from 35 seconds to 28 seconds in PvE, and from 50 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced initiative gain from 6 to 4 in PvP and WvW.
• Skelk Venom: Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
• Keen Observer: Reduced health threshold requirement from 90% to 75% in PvE only.

Daredevil

• Steal is no longer replaced by Swipe when the daredevil specialization is equipped.
• Impairing Daggers: Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 18 seconds.
• Impact Strike: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 30 seconds.

Deadeye

• Deadeye's Mark is no longer removed when the deadeye goes into the downed state.
• Brutal Aim: Increased power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.75 in PvE only.
• Deadly Aim: Increased power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.1 in PvE only.
• Skirmisher's Shot: Increased power coefficient from 0.8 to 1.0 in PvE only.
• Spotter's Shot: Increased power coefficient from 1.15 to 1.3 in PvE only.
• Double Tap: Increased power coefficient per hit from 0.65 to 0.8 in PvE only.
• Three Round Burst: Increased power coefficient per hit from 0.75 to 0.85 in PvE only.
• Shadow Meld: This skill no longer removes revealed in PvP and WvW.

Specter

• Shadow Sap: The enemy-targeted version of this skill now grants might in an area around the specter. The ally-targeted version of this skill now grants protection.
• Well of Silence: This skill has been reworked. It now dazes enemies on the initial strike, then removes conditions from allies in the area on each pulse. Gain shadow force for each condition removed. Reduced cooldown from 50 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Well of Bounty: Increased might stacks from 6 to 8 in PvE only.

The real question is, where are the superspeed nerfs to thief? Thief is absolutely not a class that needed superspeed.

Edited February 10, 2023 by SleepyBat.9034

[Mikhael.2391]

On 2/3/2023 at 12:19 AM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hi all,

Welcome to the preview for the February 14 balance update! As always, the goal of previewing these changes is to gather your feedback before the live release. We'll be following the conversation and making further adjustments as needed.

Thanks,

Cal "cmc" Cohen

Skills and Balance Lead

 

PLEASE put the breakstun /stability on entering shroud on its old CORE NECRO tree so that all necros specs are viable for roaming, makes no difference in zergging and blobing but would change the world for the better in all necro specs to not need a babysitter and be tossed around like a ragdoll.

 

Also regarding GUARDIAN give ring of warding cast while moving and DH f2 evade because this leap get inturrupted too many times. You could maintain the cooldown for all you want to the actual one. 

 

 

[Joonmo.7523]

I think fun is just as important as balance.
I think this update will be updated in a more fun direction in the future as well as balance.

 

[Kal Durak.2830]

14 hours ago, Bunny.9834 said:

because they wanna make sure the pew pew rangers are uncatchable. 🤡

They will increase Ranger bow to 2000 ROFL

[Kal Durak.2830]

On 2/9/2023 at 8:32 PM, Berking.1042 said:

THANKS FOR THE UPDATE DEVS ^^

I saw lots of critics in the reply, bunch of harsh one too. I can relate how stressful it is to "balance" a game this big and please lots of people. Rough as it seems, I know you guys can bring the best for this game. Keep it up !

As ele main, I'm somewhat happy with the patch. But balance wise, I dunno. I only see the game in the perspective of 1/2 class not all.

If I may suggest, would be nice to get your reply in regard of these complaints. As a community member, I really love to get reply from dev team. After all, you guys must've read these critics and have some solutions planned right ? Maybe, might be good to spill us some of those in the run. 

Again, tnx for the update ^^

Do you think they actually read  your comments? haha  

[CroTiger.7819]

Thank you for your efforts on changing uselles skills, and even thought most of them are not enough it is still good direction from PvP perspective. As a PvP player balance updates like this is what gives fresh stuff to this game mode and push theorycraft again but there is always issues going on top reducing viability and diversity:

 

1: You maybe overbuffed guard/dragonhunter/willbender. 

2: You didn t targeted FA perma superspeed and dragon tooth should see cast time increase. Increase on cast time is unfun yes but chasing someone with superspeed casting instant blinds and casting most stuff without need to face target is very bad interaction and it stright up deletes 99% potential builds from game. I think you was way too soft about ele and i don t mean like nerfing it into ground but its still very uninteractive.

3: You buffed ele staff while ele already has bunch of available builds and its time to switch supports or bring more options instead making ele perfect choice since support is what defines big part of meta and also diversity. Bringing more weapons is good direction don t get me wrong but i think ele is not priority right now since it already is considered best support.

4: You did nice buffs to Druid previous patch but now you decided to stop midway. Just few simple ideas which could work.

Verdant etching could also reduce effect of Celestial Avatar cooldown by lets say 5s since than you don t need to tweak celestial shadows since you can t take both. You could also do that glyph radius is bigger or even same radius but celestial avatar ones are ground target so you have to aim it (pushing druid inside ranged healer identity which would be much more intersting tbh than just radius increase). Lingering light right now is very weak compared to roots which many ppl hate so why not give lingering light something like your Celestial avatar skills are improved and so that Natural convergence is movable (or instant cast pulsing effect) or shares stability with allies. You can also do that CA can be used without full Astral Force and Natural convergence breaks stun. Pls finish work with Druid its still in need of quol since glyph are imposible to manage with pugs and most traits are stright up picks which often push it more toward side noder than actual support.

5: Spirits on ranger was very good in PvP when they pulsed from you because it actually made them usable and decent utility. I don t know if its possible to split it that much from PvE but it could open alot for Druid since stone spirit was nice protection uptime combined with Nature magic for small alac to help manage cd of CA. If temptest has stone heart why druid can t have 2/3 uptime on protection if it comits to nature magic traitline and grove rune lets say. It also creates intersting gameplay where ppl would target spirits like they do sometimes to necro worm and ranger could port spirit but the moment you port its dead anyway in PvP scenarios and you get small alac for doing right play. This gameplay was very niche and fresh. Nothing broken just good utility.

5: Signet update on ranger is amazing and thank you for that. Ranger already suffered alot from all the projectile hate and having this utility is fair inside PvP.

6: Untamed port is good nerf since it won t feel cheap and it won t go full cd if someone stealthes randomly atleast i hope so. Now when cast time is there you should remove cooldown part since sometimes you want to use it for pure overcoming obstactles and mobility. Than skill will be fine even thought im afraid doing the untamed burst with cast time port won t even land hilt bash on perma superspeed ele lets say.

7: Good changes to Firebrand and Berserker, not so sure about Bladesworn i think either blink or aegis skill should give stack of stability.

8: Give mesmer better fury uptime overall. Mirage should just get 3 dodges and get distortion removed tbh could be intersting.

9: Untamed needs condi option inside GM trait choice or* give hammer pet unleashed version some torment. Would fit very good on hammer 2 since you would be able to play fervent force and use hammer as prot, barrier, cd reduction weapon and still have ability to have that 1 skill which do dmg and therefore torment kinda fits perfectly for skill 2. This way Fervent force could see play inside condi builds and hambow (hammer/shortbow) could be strong choice. Since untamed is only possible spec on ranger with boon rip it would be shame to not have some kind of decent condi option. Shortbow ambush is kinda impossible to land all 3 hits on same target pls consider that too because its only good potential cleave. 

10: About condi soulbeast last because i made that bird build from scratch and it took me long time. Dagger mainhand is still kinda bad weapon and whole bird build i made was actually to made d/d viable. I accidently made that strong build at times but it still struggled vs certain builds mostly because of bad cleanse so this is great update. Boonbeast may be back and actual part of condi ranger this time. Pls consider doing something to vulture stance because its in same time brave but uselles pick inside pvp.

 

Thank you for all your efforts for our death gamemode hope community gives more credit to theorycraft instead of jumping on most broken things but its impossible without you.

Edited February 11, 2023 by CroTiger.7819

[Stadsport.8714]

On 2/10/2023 at 7:31 AM, Pati.2438 said:

@Stadsport.8714 nah they want us to play Berserker as a Condition focused spec. Only problem here is that it isnt even decent on this one spot xD.

I do think Berserker was somewhat intended as a condi spec (after all, torch). But the fact that the current condi zerker build spends so much time in longbow just tells me it's just a build the community made work despite the issues with the profession.

On the flip side, axe/axe power berserker is so elegant, fluid, and fun to play, that if it wasn't done by design, it was a happy accident that ANet should lean into. They have at least acknowledged the existence of power berserker as a build, in one of the last few patches.

[Tails.9372]

On 2/9/2023 at 9:36 AM, Asra.8746 said:

Nobody, who is actually serious about proper build optimization, will be using the new Signet of Power trait with its 1 initiative return (in all gamemodes) - yet another dead trait for thief.

It could be more than one and people still wouldn't use it. It's like as if they lack any understanding why someone would go for a more Signet focused build in the first place. Their planned change pretty much contradicts the whole point of them in more than just one way.

They should just apply the CD reduction to all Signet skills, change the "on kill" effect to "on crit" (without ICD but lower values) and add a "Signet skills continue to grant their passive bonuses while recharging." effect to it. That way Twin Fangs would still be better for pure damage but Signets of Power would be better for general utility.

[FelsPinguin.5902]

Especially since critical strikes is meant for crit and damage builds an focus in benefits for crit and damage would make huge sense. Using a general approach with initiative regain is just nonsense, because not a single condition build would chose critical strikes.

 

A general approach Like Initiative on Dodge would have been a great path for the hard to catch trait from acrobatics which is meant for condition as well.

[kidbuu.4071]

As far as the specter changes go...

 

It'd be beneficial that if skill two on scepter when targeting an ally affected your subgroup in the area for PVE this would greatly improve protection up time as a heal Alacrity specter.

 

I think the well of silence is a move in the right direction. 

 

If you could find a way to incorporate (not just skill three) regeneration into the spec, I think it would be beneficial.

 

Future rework might include utilizing alacrity generation somewhere else, maybe while entering an exiting shroud and or utilizing siphon either on target or enemy target.

Or the same mechanic as mechanist and having the barrier generate apply the alacrity.

[Blazinbutcher.4136]

thief has nothing after this really, unless the prot is also aoe application and not just might for spectre this isn't going to make it stand anywhere close to where supp herald is. and as for pvp thief murdering swipe and shadowmeld makes the class worthless to put in wvw we don't provide anything to a zerg already as was mentioned before. Thieves have been cast into single target no cleave solo buff classes where all other classes have some level of flourish. So ofcourse when you take away some of thieves stronges roaming tools that leaves us scratching our heads, sicem ranger can just stop thief stealth and I realize that having a perma invis opponent isn't fun but maybe the elite skill should give something for being so underwhelming now. Thank you for your continued work on the game, I hope this is considered

[Reig.8173]

Somebody have to create a elementalist and put the name "Dodge is Alac loss"

Mechanist can dodge and dont lose his Alacrity source.
Specter can dodge and dont lose his Alacrity source.
Ranger can dodge and dont lose his Alacrity source.
Chronomancer can dodge and dont lose his Alacrity source.
Mirage can dodge and dont lose his Alacrity source.
Renegade can dodge and dont lose his Alacrity source.
Willbender can dodge and dont lose his Alacrity source, or maybe yes cause it need to hit to bring alacrity.

What happened when Elementalist/Tempest dodge? Elementalist/Tempest loses his Alacrity source and putting it to a minimal 7 seconds of cooldown (cause it changed to another attunement and have to wait for Singularity and then Overload) or ~18 seconds if dont change attunement.

Pulsing alacrity while channeling Overload is not the solve, its still punish the elementalist if it have an emergency that can KILL IT and have to dodge... losing the remaining pulses.

Problem is: while channeling.

The solve must be: (as name said, SINGULARITY)

Lucid Singularity: When you attain the SINGULARITY, at the start of your next Overload apply Alacrity to nearby allies. 
1 pulse of 7 seconds.

Just 1 pulse, put it a cooldown of 7 seconds so people dont abuse it changing attunement instead finish Overload, people will still lose his Overload things but not the Alacrity source.

Jade Tech Zip Line (and mounts) deletes the elementals of Elementalist.
And when Overload Fire with 360 range to allies? At least in PvE.


One last thing: Why you as Company dont like the archetype of Wizard/Mage, in this case of Fire/Ice/Air/Earth mage with staff at range working in, using just 1 attunement and make good damage JUST in 1 attunement with staff?

I mean, low intensity staff.
(Virtuoso is a 1200 range wizard if you think, and have good damage in low intensity...)

Why Elementalist has to be a piano if you want to play it?

Thank you.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Reig.8173

[Mithos.9023]

I can't express how much I don't want to see the old mantras back on mesmer. They are so tedious. If we have to precast them now they will again vanish from my bar permanently.

I don't know why they have to get pre charging mechanic back, it is so unfun. The effect for pre charging was never worth it for the huge amount of time it took. It only made them annoying to use because you had to charge them at any interaction with the game again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

 

What is fun about this? Why do I have to need to waste so much time for them?

 

This is just a huge step backwards. If the current mantras are not strong enough please do any other change, then taking away the tremendous qol they have now.

 

I mean they even state it in the summary: “First, recasting all your mantras after changing maps or dying wasn't a particularly fun experience“

It is not different for mesmer. Why would you not want to have them prepared before combat? I bet the coming effects for pre casting will not be worth it either, for the tremendous amount of time you waste, especially if you use more than one mantra at a time.

 

I mean there is a easy middle ground as solution:

Have the mantras be prepared at all times like guardian. If you use up all your charges they go on a full cooldown without regeneration of the single charges, while in combat. If on charge needs 10 seconds for regeneration and you would have 3 charges, this would mean, after using them all they would be unavailable for 30 seconds. But you get a flip over skill that gives you the option to immediately get all your charges back, which would be the current preparations. This would give you an option, take the risk of the long charge but get an additional benefit. Or wait out the prolonged cooldown until your charges are back naturally.

[Nightara.1804]

On 2/8/2023 at 12:29 PM, xfayrox.8146 said:

That's what im saying. Only 11th for glass cannon is kinda underwhelming. Also second strongest qdps build indeed, but brings less boons than nr1 and nr3 + no superspeed/boon extension of etc. How many harbingers have u seen lately on your squads? Its basicly missclick. If you want dps, there are 10 better options, most of them have better sustain. If you want qdps then herald, fb, scrapper and chrono usually are all better options cause more boons + extra stuff they bring to table. 

Do you even realize what "11th place in DPS benchmark" means? Just look at the SnowCrows website. The DPS numbers from top to bottom are 44.7, 43.0, 42.2, 41.0 for the top four. Personally, I consider especially the first three of those to be slightly overturned, so I'm gonna compare the other builds to the 41.0k benchmark of Power Untamed.

And then it's 40.7, 40.6, 40.5, 40.4, 40.2, 40.0, 40.0, 39.0, 39.0, 38.9, 38.7, 38.6, ...

The total difference in DPS between the fourth strongest build (Power Untamed) and Condi Harbinger is 1k DPS. That's 2.5%. If you only bump up the damage by a miniscule amount (E.g. 400 DPS, aka 1%), Harbinger jumps all the way from 11th place to 6th. If you get a few random lucky crits, you'll easily get that DPS bump of 400 by pure RNG. And it's not like there's a huge gap before Harbinger, it's pretty much a smooth decline.

Just because Harbinger is in 11th place, that doesn't mean its DPS is bad. We have 9 classes, so even if the game was perfectly balanced and every class had one (And only one) DPS build that performed very well, there would HAVE to be one class in 9th place, even if it only deals 9 DPS less than the best build. Would it be justified to complain about being in 9th place then? I don't think so, because if you change it, someone else ends up in 9th place. And don't forget, we effectively have more than 9 classes due to elite specs.

Edit: Even if you "only" consider "glass cannon" builds, the "11th place is bad" argument only works if there are less than 11 "glass cannon" builds. Imo at least Harbinger, cWeaver, pWeaver, Cata, Tempest, cVirtu, pVirtu, Deadeye, Willbender, cBS, cRen, cHolo, pHolo definitely qualify for even the most conservative definition of "glass cannon" (Since they do not possess any particularly defensive aspects), and potentially even more.

 

Side note that I don't want to derail the discussion with, but I feel like I'm gonna be strawmanned if I "try to hide it":

Yes, I deliberately chose to not include the top three builds, because they make any discussion pointless: Every single build in this game deals AT LEAST 4k less DPS than the top build, that's 10%. If you already complain about Harbinger having 2.5% less damage than number four, wouldn't that make every single build (Except for the top three) unplayable?

Edited February 12, 2023 by Nightara.1804

[Virdo.1540]

One thing thats been forgotten again that id like to point out:

 

Mallyx Legend from Revenant was originally designed to pull and juggle with conditions. Since resistance got changed, it got completely useless against conditions. 

Pain Absorption in group content? Instant death. Facet of Nature condi pull? Instant death.

 

To help with this problem, please consider changing the corruption-traitline trait "Demonic Resistance" to condition-damage reduction instead of power. Since revenenant lost its perma resistance aswell, it would be more than fair and especially logic to change it. Please have a thought of that.

[Nimon.7840]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:28 PM, Solstice.5790 said:

Currently Orders from Above with Righteous Rebel gives 9 seconds of Alac, you can keep it up permanently (solo) with boon duration close to 80%.

I'm not sure if "around 33% boon duration should be enough" is meant in general, which does not work. Or were you talking about the upcoming balance patch, where that 33% alacrity duration might get added?

They said in the Livestream, that the base alacrity duration gets increased from 1,5s to 2s.

So after the patch around 33% boon duration should be enough with RR.

Though I don't see that change in the written notes.

 

[Waffles.5632]

Friendly reminder that Mirage has had one dodge in pvp/wvw for three years now.

How much longer must we suffer?

[Radiancee.6537]

20 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

One thing thats been forgotten again that id like to point out:

 

Mallyx Legend from Revenant was originally designed to pull and juggle with conditions. Since resistance got changed, it got completely useless against conditions. 

Pain Absorption in group content? Instant death. Facet of Nature condi pull? Instant death.

 

To help with this problem, please consider changing the corruption-traitline trait "Demonic Resistance" to condition-damage reduction instead of power. Since revenenant lost its perma resistance aswell, it would be more than fair and especially logic to change it. Please have a thought of that.

3000 hours Renegade main here. Tbh, I never died because of Pain Absorption in any group content (CM Raids, Fractals, bleh ..). It is still an amazing stun break in emergency situations.

Anyway, your idea of changing the damage reduction makes sense and I'd support it.