Yearly/Semi-Yearly Expansions Sounds a lot like Icebrood Saga we pay for.

[Astralporing.1957]

29 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

To be fair, a lot of players were praising IBS and the first few maps of it.

As an LS, sure. Not as expansion replacement however. Those are two very different things.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

I'll just wait until a whole arc is completed and sold in bundle for 50% less or so.

implying I bother buying anything at all 🙃

[Asum.4960]

This isn't IBS. Living World has actively been killing this game, slowly and painfully, by being incredibly expensive to develop and sucking up the entire companies resources, for not much return. 

All we got was an oversaturation of OW Maps that either died shortly after release, or became a new economy deflating zerg farm spot, killing the last one. Some mediocre story to play through once or twice, and endless, boring achievement grinds - for the cost of all other game modes and systems having to be abandoned and slowly whithering away. 

 

This promises still more than enough Story content and maps, but also Strikes, Fractals, Challenge Modes, ingame Rewards, System and Reward Updates and whatever "new gameplay and combat features" might entail, which very much so could be new Elite Specs still, Core Skill/Weapon additions or otherwise (potentially rotated in scope every other expansion or the like - but granted, this is the biggest worry point with this). 

Additionally we know they are also investing into gamesmodes like WvW again. 

 

It honestly blows my mind that people are complaining about the outlined direction, or even remotely compare it to LW/IBS - GW2's biggest financial failure, which this, if anything, is the answer/response to. 

How well and timely they can actually execute this is a whole other question - but this is pretty much exactly what GW2 needs. 

I gladly pay for actual quality and repeatable content, updates to systems, ingame reward structures and co. 

This is genuinely the most promising Blog post in well over half a decade.

/E: And in a world where people, fsr, gladly fork over 25€/$ for a new texture and at best slight remodel of an existing asset and skeleton in form of a mount skin, or gamble their money way with Black Lion Chest lootboxes, surely we can agree that multiple entire game maps, new assets, story/writing, voice acting, instanced content/quality repeatable gameplay, reward system, Masteries, new game systems as well as new gameplay and combat features, more frequent and better game balance updates and so on, is well worth the ~25€/$ these expansions are likely to cost yearly. 

The value proposition here (and of Expansions in general) is insane, and GW2's biggest strengths have always been the Gameplay/Core systems and fair Business model - it's about time GW2 plays to it's strengths. 

Companies invest into what makes money (and usually short-sightedly so). You want to pay for content and systems. The more a companies revenue is tied to actually producing quality content (rather than just MTX and the like), the better for the consumer.

It's also far better for the game (and players at large) to spread out monetization between existing and new players, rather than giving us existing players all of LW for free, and burdening prospecting new players with a mountain of purchases. Additionally, these bundled releases will be far more marketable - as well as easier to jump into for new and returning players with the more self contained story arcs. 

I somewhat get the scepticism of some people here about Anet potentially trying to sell less for more (for existing players, esp. those into Story and OW exclusively) and trying to cash out in a sense, especially after they pulled things like the "Build Templates", and it might very well be that, only the actual execution/time will tell - but honestly, if they even remotely deliver on this, this seems like a very sound strategy to grow the game into the future, not to cash out. 

Shifting their money making strategy to having to develop compelling content to sell as a package and investing more into longterm content and systems again would be an incredibly dumb move if they wanted to cash out and be coasting by. That's what LW (and especially what they tried to do with IBS) with just some OW and Story and a focus on cash shop updates was.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Asum.4960

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

38 minutes ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

I'll just wait until a whole arc is completed and sold in bundle for 50% less or so.

implying I bother buying anything at all 🙃

Atleast we don't have to look to those beautiful "green shards" in the OW  for the next 2 years and we can move to the other GW locations/stories/e-specs , for an 20-22 euros every 14-16 months.

(wait...all the Faction Guild Leaders are also bearfoot ?)

Edited February 14, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[DarcShriek.5829]

Not sure how I feel like paying every 6 months to play GW2.  Depends on the content quality I guess.  Stellaris is annoying enough.

[Fan Didly Tastic.7169]

I would absolutely pay for it if it is quality content. Unless of course it's just DRM levels of quality. So bad it's not even easily replayed. I have an easier time replaying dungeons than I do DRMs, and those are still a bit dead despite the currency changes.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Fan Didly Tastic.7169

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

I'll just wait until a whole arc is completed and sold in bundle for 50% less or so.

implying I bother buying anything at all 🙃

Do note that some achievement points get harder to accquire the longer you wait mate.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Linken.6345

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

I agree sounds a lot like a pay to play model only no subscription. Just keep buying the new expansion every so often for all the content in between.

"we’ll be releasing smaller expansions more frequently at a slightly reduced price and adding additional content for those expansions through quarterly updates, meaning that the next big release is only ever a few months away."~Studio Update

 

 

So no Free 2 Play Model anymore?

Been nice knowing guild wars but looks like this time it will be final? I'm not going to keep buying multiple expansions a year unless it comes with all the gem store items also! I'm NOT buying content AND buying micro transactions.

PICK A PAY MODEL and stick with it.

[DexterousGecko.6328]

8 minutes ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

"we’ll be releasing smaller expansions more frequently at a slightly reduced price and adding additional content for those expansions through quarterly updates, meaning that the next big release is only ever a few months away."~Studio Update

When I read that it sounds like

1. smaller expansions

2. living world updates, only now everyone pays for them.

The "next big release is only ever a few months away" bit is laughable. It'll be 6 months for the 2nd "big release" and then immediately switch to a year or more. Only now they won't have covid to blame, they'll have to figure out some other good reason for it.

It doesn't sound like much is going to change honestly, which isn't awful, part of why Guild Wars 2 is good is that it's just always there, always the same/similar, you can jump in 4 years later and not really miss that much.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

8 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

achievement points

I literally stop caring about those years ago.

[Aelin.9317]

21 minutes ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

I agree sounds a lot like a pay to play model only no subscription. Just keep buying the new expansion every so often for all the content in between.

"we’ll be releasing smaller expansions more frequently at a slightly reduced price and adding additional content for those expansions through quarterly updates, meaning that the next big release is only ever a few months away."~Studio Update

 

 

So no Free 2 Play Model anymore?

Been nice knowing guild wars but looks like this time it will be final? I'm not going to keep buying multiple expansions a year unless it comes with all the gem store items also! I'm NOT buying content AND buying micro transactions.

PICK A PAY MODEL and stick with it.

I mean tops it would be one expansion a year no? Nothing wrong with paying for the content and you can simply ignore the micro transactions or get them with gold. If you play the game regularly I don't see the issue with paying them for the time spent once a year, hell even if it was twice a year at 20-30 a pop it's still cheaper than the sub model from either ffxiv or WoW. Both WoW and FF have their own mtx as well. Buy to play with no sub is fantastic, I wouldn't have been able to play this game if it had a sub since I already upkeep a sub on ffxiv. 

Living world was not free for me, or any other new player that came to the game later. This is a huge improvement for those of us who are new coming to the game or returning from a break. I am really shocked at the amount of people angry at having to pay for content. It's the biggest cost for them to develop and for so long they just gave it away I think some people are a bit spoiled!

I refused to buy a lot of the QoL in the gem store and I am still playing happily with my biggest one time purchase having been the pack with all expansions and gems for the living world. The game will still be fantastic value for money with the new model imo. 

 

[Radiobiology.6185]

I don't mind paid content packs (mini expansions), however I'm a bit concerned with the very specific expansion templates they are communicating. Two new open-world maps, two Strike Missions, and then in quarterly updates, one more open world map and one fractal, rinse and repeat.

 

Why not leave it more open for creative freedom? Sometimes the expansion might be smaller in scale, sometimes it might be larger, sometimes there might be more focus on one type of content, sometimes another. In one expansion it might make sense with five new maps, in another it might make sense with one huge map (think Kaineng on steroids). One expansion might have three fractals, another expansion, one fractal and a new pvp map, etc etc etc.

 

The largest failure with living world in my opinion is how repetitive it feels. You always know what you will get in the next episode, some new story, a new rectangle map and a new meta event, rinse and repeat.

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

38 minutes ago, Aelin.9317 said:

I mean tops it would be one expansion a year no?

 

 

No, it "could be" as many as 3 if they keep to the quarterly release. Or $100.00/year though " a slightly reduced price" so instead of $29.99 it will be their new sale price of $25.99 or $78.00 per year. Either way it's a subscription model.  Though I would expect to see on average 2 expansion per year. If this is about $$$$ They need to keep it coming. 1/Y doesn't do it enough for them we have seen that.

They talk about how they have worked to change the game industry but keep losing ground to that very game industry. Such as a the pay model. Are they saying the gem store is not making enough?

 

I get the pay model, I do. I was even supportive of it when I suggested it with other "buy" options. I'm just getting tired of the excuses to change it again and again and again! I backed them when they were pushing for players to accept the LWS gems store system, I backed them when they were doing the expansion but LWS story releases. But it keeps changing and now it's just  buy to play.

The good thing is that if "Moving forward" is EoD then I'm not going to want what's coming out anyway. Question is when does that no longer apply? At what point will we be forced to buy an upgrade to keep playing even if we don't want the new content? If we don't like the new content can we return it and get a refund for the next one or just a refund? What if I just want the maps and events but not the story or Especs? Can I buy just the map and events? Why is it all or nothing? Why can't their be granularity? Why can't there be options? This is what got them moving in the Xpac direction and AWAY from the LWS gem store direction. Options! They just made a choice the opposite of what it was but don't want to hear the "Options" option! Nothing I haven't said years ago. So we'll see......again....
 

[Monika Mu Phi.4378]

8 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Paying for something I want, content in this case, seems reasonable to me. If a given piece of content does not meet my desires I can choose to not buy it.

How will you know if the content doesn't meet your desires if you didn't buy it to see it?  It's not like you can return it if you were unhappy with it.  Will there be free samples?

But you are correct, we can choose not to buy.  I'm mentally preparing myself to see that typed in map chat on a regular basis...just like the elites saying "get good or get gone" or "just another f'n casual".  Given how much I've played in EoD since it was released, I may not be buying many (or any) of the new expansions.  You can bet the micro transactions at the gem store won't be any cheaper. 

Most people I know are financially struggling, re-prioritizing constantly to be able to afford  entertainment, and barely keeping up with real-life expenses.  We can't all have a programmer's income.   It's been awesome to have GW2 as an affordable outlet.  I'm curious to see how many will put extra $$ into it each time, every time.  Will this be posted annually in a report of some kind?

 

Perhaps the silver lining will be a more enjoyable crowd remaining in the non-pay locations of the game.

[Vayne.8563]

7 hours ago, Lily.1935 said:

Knowing Arena net if they didn't mention it specifically its not coming. That has been the pattern since release. Its better that if its not listed assume its not there.

I don't think you know Arena net as much as you think you do. Over the years, many of the things we got weren't mentioned at all. No one expected them to redo the trading post, they just mentioned it a month ago and it's here now. We didn't know about it a year ago.

Even fractals themselves came with no forewarning.

The truth is, the tell us about some things, and keep others hidden. Path of Fire launched with an entire mount they didn't tell us anything about.

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

I don't think many here recall LWS releases! All the broken events, or story issues, Meta's that don't kick off or get stuck. Content that's blocked for some reason and you don't get credit for them. LWS Releases were always best a week or two AFTER it's release. And they were FREE then! Now you have to pay for them!? Do you think all those problems will NOT be there on release week? So what SHOULD happen is we should get a free to play week on  the new content that they get to live trouble shoot and fix then after a week it gets bundled up as an XPac and you have to buy it FIXED with out all those issues and your progress reset.

[Gladiotor.7561]

Atleast there wont be a content drought like now. I like a higher cadence. Releases might be more consistent too. 

[Lily.1935]

28 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I don't think you know Arena net as much as you think you do. Over the years, many of the things we got weren't mentioned at all. No one expected them to redo the trading post, they just mentioned it a month ago and it's here now. We didn't know about it a year ago.

Even fractals themselves came with no forewarning.

The truth is, the tell us about some things, and keep others hidden. Path of Fire launched with an entire mount they didn't tell us anything about.

Fractals was announced before its release. And it was announced as the next dungeon, so it too was announced and it was intended as fulfilling the promise of new dungeons. Although its quite different in feel, You're incorrect here.

Perhaps what I said was a bit clumsily worded. What I mean is, don't speculate on things not announced. If its not in the blog posts its better to assume its not there than to think its coming. With this announcement it was specifically excluded and its exclusion speaks volumes more than you think.

We've had this happen before, where the community would believe that because something hadn't been added for a while that it would be announced with the next thing only to be disappointed. This is one of those cases. I'd be happy to be wrong here.

[Ashen.2907]

42 minutes ago, Monika Mu Phi.4378 said:

How will you know if the content doesn't meet your desires if you didn't buy it to see it?  It's not like you can return it if you were unhappy with it.  Will there be free samples? 

But you are correct, we can choose not to buy.  I'm mentally preparing myself to see that typed in map chat on a regular basis...just like the elites saying "get good or get gone" or "just another f'n casual".  Given how much I've played in EoD since it was released, I may not be buying many (or any) of the new expansions.  You can bet the micro transactions at the gem store won't be any cheaper. 

Most people I know are financially struggling, re-prioritizing constantly to be able to afford  entertainment, and barely keeping up with real-life expenses.  We can't all have a programmer's income.   It's been awesome to have GW2 as an affordable outlet.  I'm curious to see how many will put extra $$ into it each time, every time.  Will this be posted annually in a report of some kind?

 

Perhaps the silver lining will be a more enjoyable crowd remaining in the non-pay locations of the game.

There will be feature lists and plenty of youtube videos as well as commentary (here or elsewhere).

If the cost works out to less than $30 per expansion (they said lower price than previous expacs) then perhaps $25 per year? That works out to less than ten cents per day....which you do not have to pay in order to continue playing the game.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Aelin.9317]

58 minutes ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

No, it "could be" as many as 3 if they keep to the quarterly release. Or $100.00/year though " a slightly reduced price" so instead of $29.99 it will be their new sale price of $25.99 or $78.00 per year. Either way it's a subscription model.  Though I would expect to see on average 2 expansion per year. If this is about $$$$ They need to keep it coming. 1/Y doesn't do it enough for them we have seen that.

They talk about how they have worked to change the game industry but keep losing ground to that very game industry. Such as a the pay model. Are they saying the gem store is not making enough?

 

I get the pay model, I do. I was even supportive of it when I suggested it with other "buy" options. I'm just getting tired of the excuses to change it again and again and again! I backed them when they were pushing for players to accept the LWS gems store system, I backed them when they were doing the expansion but LWS story releases. But it keeps changing and now it's just  buy to play.

The good thing is that if "Moving forward" is EoD then I'm not going to want what's coming out anyway. Question is when does that no longer apply? At what point will we be forced to buy an upgrade to keep playing even if we don't want the new content? If we don't like the new content can we return it and get a refund for the next one or just a refund? What if I just want the maps and events but not the story or Especs? Can I buy just the map and events? Why is it all or nothing? Why can't their be granularity? Why can't there be options? This is what got them moving in the Xpac direction and AWAY from the LWS gem store direction. Options! They just made a choice the opposite of what it was but don't want to hear the "Options" option! Nothing I haven't said years ago. So we'll see......again....
 

FFXIV bare bones sub is £7.69 or £92.28 for the year, this does not include paying for the expansion that year if it dropped. In which case add another £30 that year. 

WoW is £9.99 a month (£119.88 a year) or £8.69 (£104.28/year) if you buy 6 months at a time. Again you need to add expansion cost on a year it drops too, Dragonflight is £39.99. 

If GW2 drops 3 expansions a year at £25 each (£75/yr) it is still cheaper than both the other big MMO competitors. If I took the money I spend on ffxiv I could pay for all the GW2 content and have money to spare for gem store things. Esp given I pay extra for retainers like a lot of other ffxiv players. And I still buy things from FFXIV store sometimes too. And again, there is no sub fee. I can play as little as I want in a month and not feel my money was wasted. Then come back the next month and grind my little heart out without worrying about needing a sub.

If I can't afford the new content I can buy it later, I do not need to pay to access the game. It doesn't matter if all I wanna do in ffxiv is stare at my pretty house I HAVE to pay to do that every month no matter how little I will play that month. I don't have to buy every GW2 expansion and when I do buy them they are mine to access at any time without paying an entry fee each month. That is an important difference, it's not a subscription model. 

Paying for content is nothing new. If you want to be sure the content is good just wait a bit after it comes out. I did it with Forspoken, dodged that bullet. 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Aelin.9317

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

, it "could be" as many as 3 if they keep to the quarterly release

Dient they say there would be a quarterly content release after each expansion? That would mean, at most, two expansions per year...and I doubt that many. I don't see them being able to go from barely managing 4 maps in two years to doing the same in six months while moving resources away from expac development.

Regardless, it isnt a subscription model because you can still play the game without spending any more money.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Ultramex.1506]

15 minutes ago, Aelin.9317 said:

FFXIV bare bones sub is £7.69 or £92.28 for the year, this does not include paying for the expansion that year if it dropped. In which case add another £30 that year. 

WoW is £9.99 a month (£119.88 a year) or £8.69 (£104.28/year) if you buy 6 months at a time. Again you need to add expansion cost on a year it drops too, Dragonflight is £39.99. 

If GW2 drops 3 expansions a year at £25 each (£75/yr) it is still cheaper than both the other big MMO competitors. If I took the money I spend on ffxiv I could pay for all the GW2 content and have money to spare for gem store things. Esp given I pay extra for retainers like a lot of other ffxiv players. And I still buy things from FFXIV store sometimes too. And again, there is no sub fee. I can play as little as I want in a month and not feel my money was wasted. Then come back the next month and grind my little heart out without worrying about needing a sub.

If I can't afford the new content I can buy it later, I do not need to pay to access the game. It doesn't matter if all I wanna do in ffxiv is stare at my pretty house I HAVE to pay to do that every month no matter how little I will play that month. I don't have to buy every GW2 expansion and when I do buy them they are mine to access at any time without paying an entry fee each month. That is an important difference, it's not a subscription model. 

Paying for content is nothing new. If you want to be sure the content is good just wait a bit after it comes out. I did it with Forspoken, dodged that bullet. 

 

 

 

The new pay model look similar to ESO but i say still cheaper than ESO, you're not paying 15$ for 2 dungeon or full price for a single map chapter, There is Sub to access all content but....GW2 doesn't have sub and sure as hell doesn't lock material storage behind a kitten Sub

Sure GW2 might become expensive now but no where near other big MMOs

Edited February 14, 2023 by Ultramex.1506

[Matt H.6142]

What was funny to me was they broadcast they won an award for best business model, and now it’s changing.  
Bjora Marches and Drizzlewood are better maps than what EOD delivered because they are packed with fun events and callbacks like the personal story warband.

So, though this feels like their admission free updates don’t work, I’ll be happy to support rich content updates.  New skins in the gem store don’t really work for me because I’ve just about something for every occasion now. 

[Astralporing.1957]

47 minutes ago, Aelin.9317 said:

If GW2 drops 3 expansions a year at £25 each (£75/yr) it is still cheaper than both the other big MMO competitors.

That's true. On the other hand, FF XIV expansions are just bigger. And FF XIV's in-between expansions patches are just different, with less map content, but way more content of other kind (esp. instanced one). And of course the quality of content is also different (and not as easily comparable, seeing as some parts are highly subjective). So, we really should not compare that way. What we should do is to compare with the current GW2 model. And there it seems that the new one will be more pricey. Without any guarantee that in exchange for that we'll get at least the same amount of content. So far they are mentioning to start delivering content at smaller packages, at slightly reduced prices each, but more frequent intervals. Seeing how much trouble they seem to have lately just with LS1 rerelease, i'm seriously expecting to end up with greater overall yearly cost for less content compared to what we were used to once. And in such a case the price would be the least important part of it.

TBH, at this point it looks to me like an attempt to release LS packages (maybe slightly bigger than usual, but still much smaller than normal expansions) rebranded as expansions for PR reasons, and have us pay for that.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[soulknight.9620]

Sometimes i question if a simple reading skill is too much to ask for in this community. 

There will not be 3 expansions per year. Its literary said that there will be an expac with additional content every 3 months until next expac. Judging by the phrasing i would think they are saying something like an expac every 1-2 years with additional content drops in between. And you only pay for the expac, not for every content drop. 

As far as model go, it hasnt changed a bit. It was always buy-to-play. The f2p part of gw2 is nothing more than a demo for new players to try before buying the game. Its has always been this way. 

As for the whole idea, im glad they finally made it this way. Now they can finally focus on developing content and receiving payment for it instead of relying on gem store to make a revenue of some sort. 20-30 euro a year is quite acceptible price for the amount of content they plan on shipping. Its still by far the cheapest mmo out there.