Hero Points are outdated

[lezbefriends.7516]

They require you to navigate the most annoying crevices of new maps, and it's bad design to require you to fight a boss when you don't have the powerful traits necessary to defeat a boss. So you basically can't trait your new skills as you go, you have to use a meta build and wait till you're nearly finished gathering all the HPs to slot them in. Bad and outdated design all around.

 

Edit: Also, this is 2023, people have 50+ characters. It's artificial content (akin to gear treadmills) to make them run through maps for hero points on every. single. character.

Edited April 21, 2023 by lezbefriends.7516

[Biziut.3594]

Encouraging players to explore and play the map is bad? Fighting bosses in a video game to achive something is also bad? Maybe it's not A-Net thinking that is outdated... but thats just my opinion.

Want to get something, play the content. There are many ways to get those hp's done. With WvW you don't even have to touch them, with 2+ expansions you can go to the ones that are (touch to get) only. Last but not least, there is an LFG tool with HP runs going every now and than, you can create your own HP run, you can ask friends and guildmates for help, or even scream on the map chat.

Also if I have 50+ characters, am I somehow entitled to get stuff done for me? I already have it easier with having a good gear and knowledge of the encounter. If you no life game so much to make 50 characters than do not blame a-net that you need to lose your time to gear them up.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Quote

when you don't have the powerful traits necessary to defeat a boss

Objection

1. Ask for help

Power of Friendship will defeat any boss

2. Git gut

Quote

Edit: Also, this is 2023, people have 50+ characters. It's artificial content (akin to gear treadmills) to make them run through maps for hero points on every. single. character.

As mass legendary weapon crafter, it's end game i like to do

Edited April 21, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Sigmoid.7082]

Bad design and "I don't like this" are two things people really need to stop conflating. 

[Danikat.8537]

It's understandable that you'll struggle to complete hero points on a new character, some of them are tricky especially when you're not familiar with the profession or build you're using. But it's important to remember this is a multiplayer game, if you can't do something alone there's always the option to ask for help, or even just wait for someone else to come along. Most people are very helpful, even if they need to carry less experienced players through the fight.

The other thing to remember is the game is very open-ended, you're never stuck with just 1 option to proceed so if you're struggling with something you can leave it and come back later. Some hero points are easier than others, so if you're trying to collect as many as you can on a character you're not very good with yet it's best to skip the harder ones and look for another easy one.

Alternatively if you've played WvW you can use Testimonies of Heroics to buy hero point completion. There's 3 versions (one for each expansion) but they can be exchanged on a 1:1 basis if you want hero points from a different expansion. You can gather them on one character and spend them on another and you don't even need to find the hero points to complete them, so if you're having trouble with that it's an easier option.

Personally I'd be opposed to my newer characters getting automatic completion on hero points just because I've done them on another character. Having less things to do would put me off creating new characters, not encourage it.

[knives.6345]

I created a new character just a few days ago. (I got lvl 80 boost, just saying). I got an elite specialization the day after. 

Most of my HP I got from Maguuma and a few from Cantha. For HP's I cannot solo, just pinged on map chat. Surprisingly, there are like 3-5 players coming to help. Not sure if they all need the HP, but people will come. And note that this is the least active time for EU and NA, so yeah.

Try it. 🙂

[Dadnir.5038]

Have fun:

Quote

Heroics Notary offer consumables to unlock hero challenges as World versus World rewards,

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heroics_Notary

[lezbefriends.7516]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Have fun:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heroics_Notary

WvW fun? Don't make me laugh...

[Gibson.4036]

Having to overcome challenges to get stronger is standard RPG design. You might be playing the wrong genre of game.

HPs foster open world community.

You can easily get your first espec with commune-type HPs and then you will have that power to do the others.

It takes a couple hours, if that.

Nothing bad nor outdated.

 

[costepj.5120]

14 minutes ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

WvW fun? Don't make me laugh...

A while back I joined a WvW guild and now our evening run is the most fun I have in the game. Even when we wipe ignominiously, we just laugh and go again.

[vares.8457]

No they are not. 

[Jimbru.6014]

Hero point trains run regularly in all three expansions. They are squads led by experienced players, who will take you to all the hero points on the map, and often many of the waypoints and mastery points along the way. They're a great way to jump start exploring and get your abilities unlocked so you can really start digging into the game. If you're having trouble, just join one.

[Fueki.4753]

Hero points are fine. Doing them and unlocking specializations is part of playing the game.

If you have 50+ characters, then it's on you to get everything unlocked for them.

The game doesn't need to solve something you did to yourself.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[AliamRationem.5172]

5 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

They require you to navigate the most annoying crevices of new maps, and it's bad design to require you to fight a boss when you don't have the powerful traits necessary to defeat a boss. So you basically can't trait your new skills as you go, you have to use a meta build and wait till you're nearly finished gathering all the HPs to slot them in. Bad and outdated design all around.

 

Edit: Also, this is 2023, people have 50+ characters. It's artificial content (akin to gear treadmills) to make them run through maps for hero points on every. single. character.

So play some WvW.  Maybe make it a habit to do your dailies there.  That'll get you transmute charges, instant hero point unlocks, and potions to unlock reward tracks so you don't have to grind things like Gift of Battle for legendary crafting.  All of this stuff can be banked for future use when you need it.  Most of the WvW dailies involve killing NPCs with only incidental contact with enemy players if PvP combat isn't your jam.  The dailies are also often as quick or quicker than PvE dailies, too.

In any event, I disagree with your suggestion.  If you don't enjoy this aspect of the game, there's a workaround for you.  I'd prefer things remain as they are.

[Witch of Doom.5739]

Can't beat a boss?  Ask for help in LFG or map chat.  I get help often within seconds and it's fun to play with other people, especially since my toons are usually such anti-social hermits.  I love HP trains too.  Party!!!

[Gravitron.7982]

As someone who has never really gave GW2 a try until recently, comparing it to all the other MMORPG's I've played similar to GW2, none of the other ones locked classes behind additional grinds. Gear or mounts or acheivmenets, etc get locked behind additional grinds, but I've never seen it happen to a class, at least until GW2.

Regardless of whether you think it's hard ot easy to get HP, the fact is these "Elite Specializations" are essentially a new class in relation to how they function within GW2. Now SWTOR used to locked their "Advanced Classes" behind additional grinds, but the difference there was you got to pick what advance class you wanted when you hit like level 10 or 12 or something. But the current iteration of SWTOR, you just pick the advanced class right off the bat now, they got rid of that system.

I think GW1 had you select your secondary class at like level 10 or something right? But once you hit MAX LEVEL, you had your classes unlocked. Because that's really the important factor here I think, is that once you hit level 80 (which is max level) you should be DONE grinding your class, and the game should now be about grinding for gear or mounts or whatever endgame activity you want to do.

GW2 essentially treats elite specializations as End Game content, rather than mid game content, like most other MMORPG's do. So once you hit MAX LEVEL, well....you're not done! You have to keep going! Unless you want to get stuck with a "Core Class" and only a few of them can keep up with the elite classes.....so if you picked wrong, you'll be left behind. ESO kind of does this as well, but with their Champion Point system. You hit level 50 (max level), but wait...there's more! Now you need to grind  at least 1800 champion points if you want to actually max your character out!

I understand that Anet wants to force people to play the game in certain ways, and wants to time gate certain content, etc...but I mean...how arbitrary is it to run around a map just to collect something because the game wants you to collect 250 of these things before you actually complete your character. Most players would already explore most of the maps in their normal travels, especially after reaching max level and having an elite spec unlocked. I mean they will be farming mats, doing puzzles, etc so eventually most players will explore anyways.....so why try to force them to? What does this accomplish besides wasting people's time? Forces them to group? Forces them to what do the HOT and POF story lines?

As a new player (essentially), it seems like the game REALLY wants to force you to play a very specific way, but the reality is that not every player cares about map exploration...not every player cares about the story or characters...some players want to take the drivers test, pass it, then start driving. I bet most people would hate it if when you got your drivers license, the DMV said "Ok so now...after you've driven across the country for a whole year with another licensed driver with you, only THEN can you drive on your own...." You'd probably why right? What a waste of time right? It's so arbitrary to force you to do that, and then to have to wait again after you ALREADY took the written test, took the behind the wheel test, then passed, but then you STILL couldn't drive? I guarantee a LOT of people would be pissed right?

[Bolbo Baggins.8594]

Faceroll everything is the way to go? 🤣 I played my first games in the 80's when there was no revive or help from others. Dead meant dead and starting over again. No saved progression (mostly). You ran out of lives? Bad luck, start over. In gw 1 you had dead penalty the more you died and spawning at shrines and walking back. Its actually much easier now compared to the games of the past. And with the more difficult HP's (and bosses) its easy to find friendly players to assist you quickly. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Bolbo Baggins.8594

[Cernoch.8524]

3 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

WvW fun? Don't make me laugh...

Well, you are making us laugh all the time....

 

Not sure what HPs you mean, all core HPs are super easy even on low lvl char. obviously for expansion HPs you need lvl 80 which makes sense right? Actually PoF and EoD HPs would be probably easy even on low lvl char, only HoT can be harder but still soloable, all of them and on all classes. 
Even if its 2023 it doesnt mean there are not new players, there are. Nothing outdated about the system.
Call it bad because you cant play the game but only complain is not Anets fault.

[Fueki.4753]

25 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

As someone who has never really gave GW2 a try until recently, comparing it to all the other MMORPG's I've played similar to GW2, none of the other ones locked classes behind additional grinds. Gear or mounts or acheivmenets, etc get locked behind additional grinds, but I've never seen it happen to a class, at least until GW2.

You must have slept through Artifact weapons in WoW: Legion, Azerite equipment and the Heart of Azeroth in WoW: BFA, as well as everything in WoW: Shadowlands.

These were far worse than GW2's few hours of doing specific world content.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[jason.1083]

7 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

They require you to navigate the most annoying crevices of new maps, and it's bad design to require you to fight a boss when you don't have the powerful traits necessary to defeat a boss. So you basically can't trait your new skills as you go, you have to use a meta build and wait till you're nearly finished gathering all the HPs to slot them in. Bad and outdated design all around.

 

Edit: Also, this is 2023, people have 50+ characters. It's artificial content (akin to gear treadmills) to make them run through maps for hero points on every. single. character.

There are ways to circumnavigate the process of farming hero points for your characters. The most direct way, and best for competitive players are the Heroics Notary vendors, which I personally have used to instantly train up to 5 characters on all their elite specs in less than 20 minutes (adding in the time to do the tutorial and also consume 78 tomes of knowledge per character). 

So that's one way to do it for sure. 

And if only play PvE you can still grind HoT, PoF or EoD hero challenges even with the core specs, and although it does take longer it's still not too bad.

Honestly though, and this is for everyone, I am positive that Arena net doesn't intend you to just spam dozens of characters like you're a generic character production line. So it makes sense that they wouldn't make this process convenient. Otherwise they'd add an auto-create level 80 character button for gems on the character select screen that skipped through everything up to level 80 with all specs unlocked. 

I don't want to call you out for expressing your opinion as bad design. But this is a game, not character production facility. 

 

And if you think this is conflicting with what I said about making 5 characters to level 80 and fully training them in 20 minutes, I did it for the achievements, I deleted those characters right after. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by jason.1083

[Cuks.8241]

6 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

This. He/she has been slacking lately. We used to get quality troll posts, not this low hanging fruit.

Was going to say to just stick with the good old baits but looks like the fish in this pond will bite everything. 

[Gravitron.7982]

24 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

You must have slept through Artifact weapons in WoW: Legion, Azerite equipment and the Heart of Azeroth in WoW: BFA, as well as everything in WoW: Shadowlands.

These were far worse than GW2's few hours of doing specific world content.

Oh I remember alright, and was the main reason I quit legion after like 4 months. I also quit WoW altogether after their dragon gliding expac because they just keep putting grind after grind after grind into their game. To be fair, the grind for Especs isn't as bad, but fundamentally you're grinding for another class in GW2 rather than just an artifact weapon. And instead of unlocking your e spec while you're grinding till 80, the game makes you wait until after you hit 80 to grind again for the class you actually want to play.

It would be different if especs weren't so much better than the core specs. If it was more of a linear choice based on playstyle, and you wanted that playstyle, but power level was the same as core, then sure...the grind makes sense. Players don't have to grind the especs at that point to be viable or optimal. They could stick with the core specs, never grind anymore HP, and play the game the rest of their GW2 perfectly fine as a core spec and keep up with everyone else. But that's not currently the case here, literally everyone here will tell you " Yeah man you GOTTA get an espec bro....you're just missing out on so much without it...". And the game really does make you feel like you're missing out if you don't unlock an espec, because the disparity between an espec and core spec is pretty noticeable.

[Gravitron.7982]

19 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

There are ways to circumnavigate the process of farming hero points for your characters. The most direct way, and best for competitive players are the Heroics Notary vendors, which I personally have used to instantly train up to 5 characters on all their elite specs in less than 20 minutes (adding in the time to do the tutorial and also consume 78 tomes of knowledge per character). 

So that's one way to do it for sure. 

And if only play PvE you can still grind HoT, PoF or EoD hero challenges even with the core specs, and although it does take longer it's still not too bad.

Honestly though, and this is for everyone, I am positive that Arena net doesn't intend you to just spam dozens of characters like you're a generic character production line. So it makes sense that they wouldn't make this process convenient. Otherwise they'd add an auto-create level 80 character button for gems on the character select screen that skipped through everything up to level 80 with all specs unlocked. 

I don't want to call you out for expressing your opinion as bad design. But this is a game, not character production facility. 

 

And if you think this is conflicting with what I said about making 5 characters to level 80 and fully training them in 20 minutes, I did it for the achievements, I deleted those characters right after. 

So do you farm the notaries on on toon, then mail them to another toon and on that toon use them to instantly unlock HP? If so, that's good for alts but how do you instantly unlock HP for the first toon you create?

[jason.1083]

6 minutes ago, entrailsgalore.4150 said:

So do you farm the notaries on on toon, then mail them to another toon and on that toon use them to instantly unlock HP? If so, that's good for alts but how do you instantly unlock HP for the first toon you create?

You play on whatever character you want, getting the heroics, and when you make a new character you boost it to level 80, most likely with tomes of knowledge, that gives you enough hero points to unlock all the core specs of the proffesion, then you enter pvp lobby or Obsidian Sanctum and you buy a total of 75 scrolls from HoT/PoF/EoD. 

Each one is 10 points, 25 for each elite spec because they all need 250. So 750 points in total. 

 

And for the first toon, just play the game I guess, is it too much work to expirience the game at least once and get your hero points normally? 

Edited April 21, 2023 by jason.1083

[Gravitron.7982]

34 minutes ago, jason.1083 said:

You play on whatever character you want, getting the heroics, and when you make a new character you boost it to level 80, most likely with tomes of knowledge, that gives you enough hero points to unlock all the core specs of the proffesion, then you enter pvp lobby or Obsidian Sanctum and you buy a total of 75 scrolls from HoT/PoF/EoD. 

Each one is 10 points, 25 for each elite spec because they all need 250. So 750 points in total. 

 

And for the first toon, just play the game I guess, is it too much work to expirience the game at least once and get your hero points normally? 

I don't understand how your alt would have enough currency to buy 75 scrolls, is it because the PVP currency is account wide and you would have had to already grind the currency on at least one character prior?