The best years of Guild Wars 2 are behind us

[Anvar.5673]

2 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Look, I'm not saying ANet has got their act together. They've been fickle in their development almost for as long as the game exists. They have abandoned plenty of concepts for new ones, only to abandon those as well. But for me and many other people playing this game still gives us enjoyment. I don't know the exact numbers, but the fact that the studio has the resources to keep developing the game and releasing new content is pretty much proof that they're not in a bad spot today. And mind who you're calling a milk cow. If you lump yourself in with that group (and you did) then you are as much a cause for this perceived problem as anyone else you perceive as a milk cow. This is your gut talking, not your brain.

Indeed you're right too. I was just a bit worried about one member of my guild who wanted to really invest himself in PvP. I guess maybe that if you can't fight them, join them.

I am more an explorer type player myself and my favorite activity is to explore new areas with multiples characters. About that, I think ArenaNet should only release new areas, no more fractals or strikes, or at least no more challenge modes.

The Sunqua Peak fractal was only done per 4 % of players in challenge mode according to Guild Wars 2 Efficiency (and players who are registered here are the most actives ones so it should be less in the playerbase) and it was released 3 years ago. The Kaineng Overlook strike was only done per 2,4 % of players in challenge mode according to the same site.

Otherwise, the Seitung Province Explorer achievement was done by 36,8 % of players and this one requires to explore every part of the map. The Seitung Province Meta-Event was done by 29,8 % of players.

According to those statistics of popularity, I agree on the fact that ArenaNet should put all of their ressources in creating newer zones. Maybe they could abandon fractals and strikes and give us a 4th zone every year. It would be great.

[solzuul.6294]

33 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

There is a lot of room to discuss things from a nuanced, faceted perspective. Not all things more aligned with liberalism are without problems and flaws, and not all conserve perspectives are wholly without their merits.[...]

You make a lot of great points and I don't disagree with this post at all. I just disagree that everything is political, and that (if it HAS to be) the opposition are ignorant bigots. 

Edit: bracket

Edited July 3, 2023 by solzuul.6294

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

5 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Doomposting at it's finest.

Guild Wars 2 isn't going anywhere. It's one of the four (or five to some) MMORPG titans and unlike WoW (which FFXIV kinda replaces) has nothing that would be "newer GW2". It's formula (horizontal progression) and market positioning (that side MMO you can always return to as your progress is not invalidated over time) give it very solid ground to stand on.

Complain as I might (and I do) about what the devs are doing, justice has to be given where it's due.
If things were slower recently, that's at last partly on us, the players. We made it clear some time ago we would like to see game get more balance and polish, before they go guns blazing with new content. And that's what they did and are doing.

Game needs more money flowing and that's understandable. Inflation happened and that means games need more cash to operate as well. Unless this DLC is really bad I'll try to support A-net and grab it. If the game is outta breath, I'd much rather help them get back on their feet than kick it down.

Sides a-net had projects on the side...and they went sour. It's in their best interest to keep one thing that definitely works alive, well and kicking.
 

Except you have to agree that their new expansion format does resemble IBS and Anet canning Cantha in favor of this new format after barely any post expansion EoD related content does not bode that well.

It is time we stop pretending GW2's going perfectly fine and admit there IS a possibility that it is finally coming to an end. Not like the end of LWS4 was already a sort of closure to the game.

[Akisohida.8963]

2 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Except you have to agree that their new expansion format does resemble IBS and Anet canning Cantha in favor of this new format after barely any post expansion EoD related content does not bode that well.

It is time we stop pretending GW2's going perfectly fine and admit there IS a possibility that it is finally coming to an end. Not like the end of LWS4 was already a sort of closure to the game.

There's always a possibility of anything ending.

Just no concrete proof GW2 is ending now.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

1 minute ago, Anvar.5673 said:

Indeed you're right too. I was just a bit worried about one member of my guild who wanted to really invest himself in PvP. I guess maybe that if you can't fight them, join them.

I am more an explorer type player myself and my favorite activity is to explore new areas with multiples characters. About that, I think ArenaNet should only release new areas, no more fractals or strikes, or at least no more challenge modes.

The Sunqua Peak fractal was only done per 4 % of players in challenge mode according to Guild Wars 2 Efficiency (and players who are registered here are the most actives ones so it should be less in the playerbase) and it was released 3 years ago. The Kaineng Overlook strike was only done per 2,4 % of players in challenge mode according to the same site.

Otherwise, the Seitung Province Explorer achievement was done by 36,8 % of players and this one requires to explore every part of the map. The Seitung Province Meta-Event was done by 29,8 % of players.

According to those statistics of popularity, I agree on the fact that ArenaNet should put all of their ressources in creating newer zones. Maybe they could abandon fractals and strikes and give us a 4th zone every year. It would be great.

I don't entirely agree with this. If you look purely at the numbers (which are not a reflection of the entire player base, just a reflection of players who have registered at GW2 Efficiency) and take them at face value, you might think that dropping instanced content is a good decision. But there are so many factors not taken into consideration. What kind of players register at GW2 efficiency (it's an assumption to say it's only the most active players)? How many is this compared to the total playerbase (if it's only a small fraction then any information gleaned from GW2 Efficiency is insufficient)?

This also doesn't take into consideration that ANet has dedicated teams. Not all devs work on all content. Devs who develop instanced content aren't all also working on other aspects of the game, like open world maps. The people who play instanced content can also found outside of those instances, playing other parts of the game. I am one of those people. Take the instanced content away and there will be people leaving the game (something I would seriously consider), spending a lot less time on it (at the very least I would be one of these), maybe even stopping spending money on the game. The repurcussions of such a decision will more than likely affect other parts of the game as well.

But above all this, why should ANet only spend time on developing content for a majority of the playerbase? Why should they make their content less diverse and more one note? It's not as if they put 50% of their employees to work on content that's only played by 5% of the playerbase. And by that reasoning, why not stop development on WvW and PvP (I know, PvP hardly sees any development as it is, but that's a discussion for another time and place), because it's not the majority of the playerbase that plays those game modes. The lifeblood of GW2 has always been PvE, mainly open world PvE. The amount of OW content released far outweighs content for any other part of the game. And considering how rare new releases of instanced content are, I doubt it would make much of a difference to the development of the rest of the game if they stop doing it altogether. LFG's for raids, fractals and strikes are healthy. Having various types of content draws in different kinds of people. i.e. more people than if they'd focus solely on one aspect of the game. Any paying customer is a win. A company risks alienating a lot more people by excluding specific groups than just the people in those groups. After 11 years and various iterations of instanced content it would be a really weird decision for a company to go this route, possibly equal to shooting themselves in the proverbial foot. Would I want more content created? Sure. But more isn't always better.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

10 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Except you have to agree that their new expansion format does resemble IBS and Anet canning Cantha in favor of this new format after barely any post expansion EoD related content does not bode that well.

It is time we stop pretending GW2's going perfectly fine and admit there IS a possibility that it is finally coming to an end. Not like the end of LWS4 was already a sort of closure to the game.

I'd word it differently, but the general sentiment remains mainly the same. The new expansion is what IBS should have been.

I'm not too worried about them canning Cantha. They've canned plenty of things in the 11 years since launch. For anyone who's played the game for that long it should be clear that ANet are in the habit of trying out new things, then abandon them if they don't have the desired/expected result. The canning of Cantha, combined with all other information from ANet in the past few years, make it clear to me that they are going a new route. It doesn't make sense to then continue with the old route for 2 more years, before changing direction as claimed 2 years earlier. And to be honest, Cantha is my least favorite part of the game (even though I loved it in GW) so I'm not sad to see we're leaving that area this soon already. I know this sentiment is shared by quite a few people, at least here on the forum.

Everything comes to an end. With every new day we play GW2 we are closer to its end, as we are to our own. To me this doesn't spell the end, though. It's just another example that adds to the pattern I've seen over the years since this game has launched. Considering how long it takes to develop expansions, even when they aren't as large as with some other games, I view this as the first truly concrete results of everything that happened at the studio in 2020.

[Anvar.5673]

24 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

But above all this, why should ANet only spend time on developing content for a majority of the playerbase?

That's what I always try to say with the PvP. If they given the same chance to the PvP of Guild Wars 2 as they did with the PvP of Guild Wars 1 with Guild Wars Factions, so maybe it would be more popular then. But today people are more inclined to create dozen of topics about balancing than express their interest for more game modes so I guess the community deserve it.

As for the people who are doing fractals and strikes CM everyday, the only thing I see with them is they are always the same people and that's that same people who put more entry barriers to the majority of the playerbase like they did with raids ; like raiders refusing to have a proper story mode for the raids, WvWers refusing a new WvW map or goldsellers refusing more PvP game modes to serve their own interests.

After all, the end-game PvE ones proved that they could do the same content every year like the PvP players so why bother with making new contents for only 2 % of players ? As ArenaNet only rely their actions on their statistics, maybe they should move all their gameplay and level designers to the overworld.

Yeah, that's what happens when communities are not united with each other. End-game PvE don't care about WvW and PvP and it's the same for each community of players. I wish everyone where satisfied but no one cares so enjoy your 5 minutes strikes and fractals of content every year I guess.

[Linken.6345]

14 minutes ago, Anvar.5673 said:

That's what I always try to say with the PvP. If they given the same chance to the PvP of Guild Wars 2 as they did with the PvP of Guild Wars 1 with Guild Wars Factions, so maybe it would be more popular then.

Snip

And they tried exactly that at the start of gw2 life it failed misserably so they switched direction.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Linken.6345

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

22 minutes ago, Anvar.5673 said:

That's what I always try to say with the PvP. If they given the same chance to the PvP of Guild Wars 2 as they did with the PvP of Guild Wars 1 with Guild Wars Factions, so maybe it would be more popular then. But today people are more inclined to create dozen of topics about balancing than express their interest for more game modes so I guess the community deserve it.

You are forgetting about one thing here: GW2 is not the same kind of game as GW. The first game was not an open world MMO, like the second one is. In an open world action adventure game that has to be your main priority because that's where players will be most of the time. You don't choose to play a MMO if PvP is what you love about games. And what numbers we do have suggest that the majority of players can indeed be found in the open world. In GW2 we're all trampling the grass together. In GW we were always on our own, except when we partied up with people, and even then it was a far smaller number of people than you can find in any GW2 map. The focus of development in a game with a world that is opened up to everyone at the same time has to be different than a game where everyone plays in their own instance, away from each other. It's not as if they haven't touched PvP or WvW since launch. It will just never be a priority over OW, or even of equal importance in the development cycle. I can understand the sentiment (even though I have nothing with PvP and don't play it), but I don't understand why, after 11 years, there is still an outcry for more development of a game mode that is clearly not a major source of their bread and butter. As much as I want more raids and dungeons I know that's never going to happen, so you won't hear me going on about it. I now have to settle for story-light instances, or ignore them (I haven't done Fractals in about a year or 2 and am on a strike mission break; I only do raids weekly at this moment and don't even think about dungeons anymore unless they introduce new achievements that involve running dungeons). If instanced content would have been the only thing I do in game I almost certainly would have stopped playing by now. I can't say if I would still play if PvP had been my thing, but probably not to the degree I do now. As for WvW, I do it when needed (i.e. Gifts of Battle, and I recently finally finished Conflux). But I wouldn't bat an eye if they deleted the game mode and moved these items to PvE, so I can't really speak to the experience of a dedicated WvW player either. I like PvE, and the challenge of instanced content most of all, and so far ANet hasn't lost me.

For ANet it's simple: they need to find the balance between pleasing their playerbase and making enough money to continue. But ironically, giving people what they want isn't always the best way of making more money, especially when your playerbase isn't uniform.

[SquirrelTeamSix.6073]

Guys if you don't like the state of the game just quit playing. It's really that simple.

[Endaris.1452]

5 hours ago, Anvar.5673 said:

Indeed you're right too. I was just a bit worried about one member of my guild who wanted to really invest himself in PvP. I guess maybe that if you can't fight them, join them.

I am more an explorer type player myself and my favorite activity is to explore new areas with multiples characters. About that, I think ArenaNet should only release new areas, no more fractals or strikes, or at least no more challenge modes.

The Sunqua Peak fractal was only done per 4 % of players in challenge mode according to Guild Wars 2 Efficiency (and players who are registered here are the most actives ones so it should be less in the playerbase) and it was released 3 years ago. The Kaineng Overlook strike was only done per 2,4 % of players in challenge mode according to the same site.

Otherwise, the Seitung Province Explorer achievement was done by 36,8 % of players and this one requires to explore every part of the map. The Seitung Province Meta-Event was done by 29,8 % of players.

According to those statistics of popularity, I agree on the fact that ArenaNet should put all of their ressources in creating newer zones. Maybe they could abandon fractals and strikes and give us a 4th zone every year. It would be great.

Map exploration has no or only low replayability. It is also very easy and not time intense, especially for the kind of achievement you mentioned because it requires no hearts, no PoIs, no vistas, just poking your nose into each broad area of the map. And you also have to adjust those numbers: Only 32% of accounts finished EoD story compared to 69% for PoF and 65% for HoT. That means against the playerpool that actually played EoD, 7.3% players completed KO CM - which is a lot compared to the amount of people that completed the skiff or jade bot races on about any EoD map on any significant rank and still more than people caring about avid fishing achievements.

The game needs both the light and easy aspects and hard/replayable content to test your mettle against. Although in my opinion mostly a major brushup on the story telling and map interactivity as they are by far the most hurting for EoD (map) replayability. As much as people hate on LS2 for nothing happening, I'd play that 10 times over before setting a foot into EoD story again.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Endaris.1452

[OnlyChaks.1725]

 Every game is "dying". Literally no game will retain it's peak forever but as long as it generates enough money, it will keep existing. GW2 isn't going anywhere. I've played both wow (18 years) and ffxiv (3 years), and right now, I enjoy GW2 (2 months) more than either of them. This whole thread is pointless.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Neiara.9362

[costepj.5120]

I think the first posts about GW2 dying appeared in 2012, a month or two after launch.

[Ashantara.8731]

8 hours ago, solzuul.6294 said:

Yes this is perfect. Anyone that doesn't agree with my political view is pushing a bigotry and ignorance. Very wide world view. 

"Very wide world view" to falsely claim a person's identity is being "political."

I am a gay woman -- that is not my political view, that is part of who I am, and claiming otherwise is bigoted and ignorant. There are homosexual, transgendered and non-binary people to be found in every political camp, left, right, center -- just some are being more open about it because their fellow human beings aren't bigoted and ignorant shmucks.

[Gendalfs.7521]

6 hours ago, SquirrelTeamSix.6073 said:

Guys if you don't like the state of the game just quit playing. It's really that simple.

You should be the lead of Anet.

[Aedil.1296]

To be honest GW2 is probably the only surviving MMO NCSoft has in the west. 

They make money mostly with mobile games nowadays, GW is a very little piece of the revenue cake so they won't invest huge money in it. Still I think Anet is managing to do kind of a good job releasing new content to the game despite the low budget. Obviously they are not so good in making classes and balance, which I don't really understand why as gw1 had hundreds of different skills for EACH class, and still PvP and balance was so much better. 

NCSoft is really trying to make new mmos but kind of failing at it (see the throne and liberty disaster) so I believe they will just focus on mobile games for the future. 

Anet is the only studio that produced a unique and long lasting mmo owned by ncsoft, but I feel like they are keeping it open to do us a favour more than for the revenue. 

I believe as far as gw makes that little revenue enough to pay staff and stay in the positive it will keep going, but as soon as it goes in loss it might get shutdown. 

Dunno i really hope I'm wrong i love gw since 2007 and it's very dear to my heart. 

[Myror.7521]

@TheNecrosanct.4028 sry here but thats entirely untrue. At the begin of the Game PvP was the absolute Main Focus (besides PvE). It got reduced while HoT and send to death after they left esl behind ^^

 

Also to those who say "the Game is doomed cause see IBS and EoD". You guys might have miss a real Point Here! IBS and EoD get complete rushed! You don't get what i mean? Well letz see! Back then they announced Ice Broot Saga to be the next expansion like content for the Game. You could clearly see how the quality of the Story was (around to the middle of the Story). There announced that the Story will go deep into the History of other races as you could see in the official trailer. How ever in the middle of the IBS (and I think this is 50% NC-Softs fault) they get said that they will be able to go though an acutuall real expansion, this ends up in the rest of the IBS get rushed hard so they could Focus on EoD. However this new expansion got released after only 1 year developement  means its just also rushed too. This ends up in both expansions where pretty garbage and rushed over all. Now this new expansion is also pretty fast out but after them saying they will Bring Patches step by step im rly in hope the Quality of this expansion will be as good as the beginning of the IBS back then. At all we First might have a look at it. And then you will be able to say If its garbage or not

Edited July 4, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

16 hours ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

I'm not sure if you have noticed, but politics, in one form or another, exist in every single form of media.

Also, I've noticed that when people cry 'No politics in my game/movie/whatever!', they mean 'No politics I don't like', because they never yell that things they agree with should not belong.

And you think there's nothing wrong with that? To use entertainment to send a message instead of being it just as an entertainment, you think there's nothing wrong in it? Why is there any need to throw an ideology over people's face? If they can't win them over by showing where it's supposed to, then the problem is their side, if they chose to display it in where it's not supposed to, that's where they will get hate instead of acceptance.

 

And you're mistake about the second part too, it's the limit to people's tolerance over any side, 'the boys' had been "politically inclusive" very different from the original comic, yet people like it, while there are movies/series that just wants to send a message, and that will ruin the experience, which would make the people intolerable towards it (no matter the side).

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

16 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Because they support LGBTQ+ causes? That's not political, that social. The fact that people's nature and identity are being used against them in politics is a travesty and should be spoken up against. One day it might be you.

And, newsflash: they've always supported the diversity of humanity.

No, its about perspective, what you're fighting for isn't always the truth, if you impose it and ask people to accept it, then that where you're wrong (ironic how the whole "movement" started because of this). You have your ideology, we have ours. And social is political.

I wish to talk more about it, but I know it will only lead me to be silenced here, so let's end this here.

[patton the great.7126]

I mean ya obviously it's time is almost over, but this is one more ex pack at least to see if they can turn the tides. I'm guessing no, especially with how rushed this one is but hey let's go out with a bang!

[Dante.1508]

They were behind us when Guildwars 2 released.. Guildwars 1 was the best years, 7 of mine.

[Tachenon.5270]

It occurs to me that the best years of Guild Wars 2 are most definitely NOT behind ME. Why not? Because ! I'm still waiting for a (brace for impact) PROPER Guild Wars 2. One that takes, ya know, everything I love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it in a persistent world. And so on and so forth.

Whee!

(I especially like how the village staying rescued is so immaculately represented by the repeatable hearts in Elona.)

[Akisohida.8963]

2 hours ago, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

And you think there's nothing wrong with that? To use entertainment to send a message instead of being it just as an entertainment, you think there's nothing wrong in it? Why is there any need to throw an ideology over people's face? If they can't win them over by showing where it's supposed to, then the problem is their side, if they chose to display it in where it's not supposed to, that's where they will get hate instead of acceptance.

 

And you're mistake about the second part too, it's the limit to people's tolerance over any side, 'the boys' had been "politically inclusive" very different from the original comic, yet people like it, while there are movies/series that just wants to send a message, and that will ruin the experience, which would make the people intolerable towards it (no matter the side).

You misunderstand the first part; People LITERALLY CANNOT exclude 'politics' from anything they create. How we see the world, and how we think, colors anything and everything we create. Hell, what you wear is colored by your personal views on how you want to look. Yet, if someone wears a rainbow lapel pin, suddenly it's 'Politics!' and 'Shoving it in our faces!'

Also; People will find 'politics' in anything they don't like. Let me give you an example:

I have a book series from the 70's that I have loved reading and re-reading my entire life; The Belgariad. Every race in that book is based off a real-life race. The Tolnedrans are akin to the Romans, down to having 'legions' and the best formation tactics in the world. The Chereks are Vikings. The nomadic Algars are like the Magyars/Poles/Scythians. Etc.

The evil Angraks have, amongst others, the Murgos, Who were based off Arabia; Conical helmets, curved sabers, broad-shoulders, swarthy skin. Why do I bring this up? Because, in this day and age, we know, for a fact, that someone would scream David Eddings is racist for making one of the evil races based off Arabic culture. Even though all he was doing was drawing from real life to make fantasy cultures. (That, and the sequel series showed more of the Eastern Kingdoms and how not all the Angaraks were evil.)

 

Simply put; When people scream 'No politics', they are, 99.99% of the time, screaming about something they disagree with. Because they don't notice politics they agree with, or they insist something non-political is 'clearly pushing an agenda' because they are unhappy.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

2 hours ago, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

No, its about perspective, what you're fighting for isn't always the truth, if you impose it and ask people to accept it, then that where you're wrong (ironic how the whole "movement" started because of this). You have your ideology, we have ours. And social is political.

I wish to talk more about it, but I know it will only lead me to be silenced here, so let's end this here.

Being LGBTQ+ is not a perspective, it's a biological fact. The imposing is done by those opposing LGBTQ+ people. Fighting for equal rights is never wrong. The ideology is to let everyone be who they are and coexist in peace, not condemn/exclude/persecute people for being different. Identity is NOT political. Even though it's weaponized in politics, it shouldn't be.

Art/entertainment and politics have always gone hand in hand. The punk movement, metal music, plenty of pop and rock artists, books, movies. Art can and will be used to shed a light on politics, to satirize it, criticize it, etc. It's a form of expression and people will express whatever they like. It's like others said: people only complain about politics in art and entertainment when it goes against their personal ideology. I can guarantee you that there is entertainment out there with a political bent that you like. 

[Ashen.2907]

10 hours ago, costepj.5120 said:

I think the first posts about GW2 dying appeared in 2012, a month or two after launch.

There were some, "DoA," posts before launch.