Can players please stop using the word "kitten" to describe things that are not kitten?

[Ashantara.8731]

3 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

I actually saw this in another thread when someone was discussing arachniphobia, because Guild Wars 2 has a lot of spiders in it and things that look like spiders

Yes, because being afraid of something (phobia) equals being hurt by a thoughtless person's words (lack of empathy).

phobia <> apathy

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

This one is so underwhelming, it just stands in some out of the way spot. Doesn't move doesn't do anything, just stands there in a blue mist.

I keep hoping the black ones will start hitting it with their snowball fight or something, but they never go near.

My favorite is the WvW zerg fight cats and their setup, empowering and the comic cloud and boom bam animations lol.

Edit: Feeding both Yellow Catmander and Blue Catmander will spawn two kitten zergs stacking on their respective Catmanders. After a moment of staring the enemy down, the Catmanders will cast Empower on their zerg and then rush towards each other to skirmish in a cloud of "BAM!" and "POW!" icons.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hungry_cat_scavenger_hunt

Edited October 4, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
Edit: Cat details for the confused person. :)

[Eater of Peeps.9062]

18 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

A dictionary definition, not slang, not in jest, etc.

Then again the use of the word to describe the disease started off as slang. It literally means crab.

It doesn't mean crab. It means canker. And the cankers were described as crablike, hence the Greek name for the zodiac symbol was used as a descriptor not a definition. Also, no one is objecting to or referring to its use as zodiac symbol, so what's your point. That's a proper name in a specific context, not a slang use referring to a horrifying disease which was what OP and others are objecting to. I have objected to players using this term in GW2 since the day of launch. Its every bit as offensive in the cavalier manner used as any offensive name I have ever been called. So please deal with it.

[Vayne.8563]

11 minutes ago, Eater of Peeps.9062 said:

Saying racist things is a cultural thing too, yet we manage to circumscribe our collective use of those offensive slang slurs so why not this as well? Its unbelievably offensive to those of us who have suffered through the ravages of this disease and it triggers PTSD when it is thrown in our faces daily, especially with zero regard for how much it reminds us of a painful time in our lives and especially when it is used in a cavalier manner that effectively deminimizes the horror of the experience by comparing it to a silly task in a video game that isn't even difficult or worthy of commentary. Blocking isn't the answer is it, especially in a cancel culture of censorship we all seem to love to embrace at this point. I just don't understand the hypocrisy.

We're not talking about racism here, we're talking about one specific word. I acknowledged taht those guys didn't know any bettet, but this is very different from racism. And even then, words change from culture to culture. We had a brand of cheese in Australia for years, that eventually changed it's name just this year, because it was offensive to people from other countries. Saying that somehow using kitten is the equivalent of a racist slur is wrong.

[Eater of Peeps.9062]

14 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

Ah the star sign that looks like a crab.

Yeah those not immediately affected by a condition rarely think about it.  I hardly ever think about alzhimers or dementia for example.  I would guess for the folks Op mentioned 🦀 is simply a word to express a bad time.  

 

I think that's the whole point isn't it?

[Eater of Peeps.9062]

4 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

We're not talking about racism here, we're talking about one specific word. I acknowledged taht those guys didn't know any bettet, but this is very different from racism. And even then, words change from culture to culture. We had a brand of cheese in Australia for years, that eventually changed it's name just this year, because it was offensive to people from other countries. Saying that somehow using kitten is the equivalent of a racist slur is wrong.

Not knowing any better is not an excuse nor does it justify it's use, just as with racism. And the racism reference was an analogy to point out that the use of slurs to depict racist feelings by deminimizing a race/races of people who are different from the person using the slur with  an offensive effect on others is the same thing as using a slur that has the effect of deminimizing the people experiencing a horrifying disease. It's a slur. It has the intended effect of deminimizing people and their experiences and what they go through because they are different from those who toss the slurs off like it is nothing.  

[Hesione.9412]

As per any other thread on any forum on the internet, this has devolved into "I am okay with these words I personally consider offensive, but not with these slur words".  And every group has a different list. And, as per another thread, some words that are slurs (or similar to slurs)  in one language aren't in another language.

No-one is going to be happy. And I will judge you for what slurs you use.

[Marikus.1875]

10 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

which word exactly are we talking about here? 

Apparently, there are a lot of people who strongly dislike kittens...must be dog lovers.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Marikus.1875

[Poormany.4507]

The forum filtering is not working out well for this thread:

1 hour ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

kittens can spread and grow but the only meaning for kitten is a disease.

I do agree with the general premise of this thread, but this could be said about pretty much any insult and is mostly already covered by the game's rules regarding language, harassment, and personal insults.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Eater of Peeps.9062 said:

It doesn't mean crab. It means canker. And the cankers were described as crablike, hence the Greek name for the zodiac symbol was used as a descriptor not a definition. Also, no one is objecting to or referring to its use as zodiac symbol, so what's your point. That's a proper name in a specific context, not a slang use referring to a horrifying disease which was what OP and others are objecting to. I have objected to players using this term in GW2 since the day of launch. Its every bit as offensive in the cavalier manner used as any offensive name I have ever been called. So please deal with it.

When one person starts using a word that means something else it is slang. The fact that others subsequently chose to continue using the word in that manner does eventually legitimize that usage, but doesnt change the fact that it originally had a different meaning. 

Hippocrates gave the name Karkinoma (greek for crab) which was translated into Latin as kitten (the latin word for crab)

And it is only offensive to use a word for one of its dictionary definitions if one chooses to seek to be offended. If I am sad other people are not being offensive if they use the word blue.

 

And I made no mention of the zodiac, strawman arguments are a ludicrous way of making a point.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Zebulous.2934]

There is also this phenomena in language known as     hyperbole    ; exaggeration for effect.  
"Dude I don't like this thing."
Yeah bro? how bad is the thing?
"Dude it's as bad as the worst thing I can think of."

really bro?
"Well naw dude, but I wanna add emphasis you know?  and convey that I'm like really annoyed, but I don't want to be boring and just say really a bunch of times."

Edited October 5, 2023 by Zebulous.2934
I'm

[Panda.1967]

16 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

There is also this phenomenal in language known as     hyperbole    ; exaggeration for effect.  
"Dude I don't like this thing."
Yeah bro? how bad is the thing?
"Dude it's as bad as the worst thing I can think of."

really bro?
"Well naw dude, but I wanna add emphasis you know?  and convey that I'm like really annoyed, but I don't want to be boring and just say really a bunch of times."

Using it for hyperbole doesn’t automatically make it ok. There is such a thing as taking something too far or overstepping boundaries. In this case the way people use the term is absolutely overstepping boundaries, hyperbole or not.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Panda.1967

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Eater of Peeps.9062 said:

Not knowing any better is not an excuse nor does it justify it's use, just as with racism. And the racism reference was an analogy to point out that the use of slurs to depict racist feelings by deminimizing a race/races of people who are different from the person using the slur with  an offensive effect on others is the same thing as using a slur that has the effect of deminimizing the people experiencing a horrifying disease. It's a slur. It has the intended effect of deminimizing people and their experiences and what they go through because they are different from those who toss the slurs off like it is nothing.  

It's not an excuse mate. Different people don't mean the same thing with the same words. That's life. You don't get to define what words mean. Society does.

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

which word exactly are we talking about here? 

You take the word "can" and then you add "cer" to it and that is the word we are talking  about

[Zebulous.2934]

52 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

Using it for hyperbole doesn’t automatically make it ok. There is such a thing as taking something too far or overstepping boundaries. In this case the way people use the term is absolutely overstepping boundaries, hyperbole or not.

Err the people doing it aren't doing so to attack people who have an illness.  They make the comparison inorder to say that a game situation is unpleasent.  The unpleasant situation is the focal point. The illness itself should be destroyed/cured, just like the unpleasant aspect of the game.

[babana.7521]

end of day, DON'T BE MEAN, even if you are hiding behind the internet, being unknown online doesn't mean you can be mean to another person. talk properly, if you don't know whether a word is hurtful, don't use it.  google is your friend.

 

[TaurusZA.5493]

Well thank you everyone for all the interesting and informative thoughts - it's clear that there are a lot of different perspectives and I am grateful for everyone who expressed an opinion, and especially for those who understand where I am coming from.  Like I've said before, I'm strongly against censorship or cancelling.  Just some final thoughts:

I fully understand and get that words change and grow in meaning and are used in new contexts.  Many of the ways in which this has happened has made the world a better place, such as the happy fact that racial slurs, which were once commonly accepted to refer to entire groups of people, are no longer acceptable.  For me though, using that word (and others) to mean "unpleasant" is just a false comparison as there is absolutely no way of equating a bad world boss or an annoying experience at the grocery store with the realities of a deadly disease.  In the same way I think it's wrong to say stuff like "I got r*ped by Dhuum today" (deliberate asterisk to avoid kittening) because there is no comparison between the horror of a sexual assault and dying to a raid boss.  Everyone would be up in arms about any kind of allusion to race, sexuality or gender identification (Heaven forbid we get Jormag's pronouns wrong!)

But I guess that is the reality of playing an MMO.

Happy gaming everyone.

[Zebulous.2934]

A difference is that:  No one is currently able to inflict 🦀upon someone else.  A person cannot simply cause someone else's cells to multiply out of control.  The example that you just gave references a violent act that someone has to choose to inflict upon someone else.
If we reach the point that we can inflict the illness upon each other then it might become an equivalent comparison.  Until then; physical violation is far worse and should not be trivialized.
To be clear: one is an act of fate beyond anyone's control. While the other is the chosen act of one person that harms another.  That is why they are different.  This is why expressions referencing each have different weights.  

[willow.8209]

19 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Just my opinion, but I think the world could generally benefit from less censorship at this time.  Does that mean there's any gain from people using this word to describe trivial matters or that they're right for doing so?  Of course not.  On the other hand, we could just toughen up and accept that people will say stupid things instead of demanding somebody else do something about it.

Having said that, if we must go the other way, I know people who suffer from irritable bowel syndrome and so request that we rename icebrood saga.

 

on the IBS, I do understand that can be miserable. But the worst thing is that doctors don't take it seriously. It doesn't cause any issues, they say. I know a cardiologist who disagrees with the GI doc on this. The issue is that there are few treatments, fewer that actually work for some groups, and there's barely any research.

Similar to several other conditions that are similarly trivialized, apparently because the mechanisms are not fully understood (not that we fully understand the mechanisms of better regarded conditions! it seems to me typically party a difference of degree and partly a double standard--once a diagnostic label has been trivialized for any reason [the original reason for this is often related to prejudice/bigotry, although being "too hard" to solve with the tools or groupthink at hand can also be a factor] it's extremely difficult for it to get to a serious level of research or funding, or be considered important even if it creates and important level of intrusive symptoms and even serious complications). 

So while I agree that there's a need for people to not judge or criticize too much for people using language in ways they learned from culture even if there's an unintended slur (intended slurs are a different matter and should be criticized) but in any case with the understanding that people make mistakes and learned bad habits from , well, our entire culture, and that people's everyday decisions are now highly visible as if everyone were a celebrity-- which is negatively impactful to everyone...

I also agree that there's a need to take labels more seriously and not do anything that would further trivialize marginalized diagnoses--or even some of the diagnoses with the best research funding in the world (besides your instance I've heard of another well-researched label being used as a 'generic bad' in this game). 

Edited October 5, 2023 by willow.8209

[willow.8209]

just a reminder that social determinants of health are a thing

edit: tl;dr/didn't click thru -- for most people the neighborhood they are from is the most important factor in their overall health

Edited October 5, 2023 by willow.8209

[willow.8209]

9 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

A dictionary definition, not slang, not in jest, etc.

Then again the use of the word to describe the disease started off as slang. It literally means crab.

the researchers thought the cells in that condition had an appearance like a crab, reaching out like the pinchers. 

there's another disease that its name means "wolf": the doctors thought the characteristic rash looked like a wolf mask

And another where the name means "siphon", which is thought to (for some reason I don't follow) be a reference to peeing a lot. 

So no it's not slang (as in it didn't arise from casual use in general culture), just an effort to describe diseases before they had sophisticated modern equipment to know the pathology

but there's an effort today to make disease names more meaningful and in English (or whatever living language is being used in the local place), not ancient Greek or Latin.

Edited October 5, 2023 by willow.8209

[ShadowKatt.6740]

2 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

A difference is that:  No one is currently able to inflict 🦀upon someone else. 

On the contrary, you absolutely can inflict crabs on someone else. Don't be that guy.

[Derktarlms.6213]

More than it is something cultural, it is something that is being eliminated from social networks due to cookies that break easily, for example, and only the people who ration know it and know that it is an escape from the system that now eliminates words that demand the truth ( less twitter x)

[Dawdler.8521]

8 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

end of day, DON'T BE MEAN

But kittens arent mean?

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hi Everyone,
I'm locking this thread as it's run its course.
Regards.